Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Xaviesta]

Lot of talk always about the abilities of the coaching staff, and why Ole doesn't add to it. Could it possibly be that he is happy with what the coaches are doing? I'm sure a club of our size and stature wouldn't have a problem bringing in new coaches if we deemed it to be necessary

I think he's become too blinkered by this ''United DNA'' thing. I had a read of United's press release when Darren Fletcher joined United's coaching staff. When talking about Fletcher's appointment, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's first sentence was all about Fletcher having ''United DNA'', nothing to do with his coaching ability which came later on. It may not be a massive thing but Fletcher's coaching ability and what he will bring to United should have been mentioned first, then how Fletcher has ''United DNA'' dripping through his veins.

 

[RkkMan]

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Pathetic.

That’s no trophies for the next however many years then, whilst also playing excruciatingly bad football. Luckily getting top 4 is the holy grail for the fanbase now so all is good for Ole & the Glazers

 

[Kaos]

The impulsive manner at which this club works really irks me.

Why not wait until his contract nears its end before deciding to offer an extension? It's not like we're in danger of any clubs poaching the mighty OGS, elite European manager.

The club will look really stupid (again) if by the end of next season he's still not won anything or worse yet - falls out of the top 4, while comfortably sitting on a 3 year contract.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

The impulsive manner at which this club works really irks me.

Why not wait until his contract nears its end before deciding to offer an extension? It's not like we're in danger of any clubs poaching the mighty OGS, elite European manager.

The club will look really stupid (again) if by the end of next season he's still not won anything or worse yet - falls out of the top 4, while comfortably sitting on a 3 year contract.

The cult of Ole fanatics probably don’t realise that. Their delusion is pretty extreme.

Ive said this time & time again, other than a portion of the United fanbase (the ones blinded by sentiment & United DNA etc) nobody rates OGS as a manager. Our rivals fans want him to stay for a reason, because they know we are going nowhere under him. He is to us what Lampard was to Chelsea, and what Dalglish was to Liverpool 10 years ago. It’s all sentiment. We are just wasting our time right now.

 

[Jaxa]

This absolutely baffles me if true, didn't we do the same with Mourinho to then sack him a year later ? With all respect to Ole this isn't Pep or Klopp here, with the european elite sniffing around to poach him from us

Murtrough will be hounded if the same happens here, wouldn't be a great start to his reign.

 

[Kaos]

The cult of Ole fanatics probably don’t realise that. Their delusion is pretty extreme.

Ive said this time & time again, other than a portion of the United fanbase (the ones blinded by sentiment & United DNA etc) nobody rates OGS as a manager. Our rivals fans want him to stay for a reason, because they know we are going nowhere under him. He is to us what Lampard was to Chelsea, and what Dalglish was to Liverpool 10 years ago. It’s all sentiment. We are just wasting our time right now.

With Lampard you could at least make the case for him genuinely being a young manager with room to grow (whereas Ole has been managing for the best part of a decade in the mighty Norwegian league and with Cardiff FC) and Dalglish has actually won a handsome share of domestic titles with Liverpool as manager, even if it was eons ago. Put the sentimentality aside and then you realise how absurd it is to offer a long term contract to an ex Molde and Cardiff manager who's not come close to winning anything at United. I'm sure if you offer Brendan Rodgers the United role with the same resources he'd easily dwarf Ole's achievements at the club, but because the caf has memed him it's considered laughable.

Like you say, the only people happy with him being given a new contract outside of our delusional sentimental fans are - rival fans, and our ownership who are just happy to have a compliant lackey that achieves the bare minimum for us to remain being a profitable club for them to leech off. It really is quite depressing.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

With Lampard you could at least make the case for him genuinely being a young manager with room to grow (whereas Ole has been managing for the best part of a decade in the mighty Norwegian league and with Cardiff FC) and Dalglish has actually won a handsome share of domestic titles with Liverpool as manager, even if it was eons ago. Put the sentimentality aside and then you realise how absurd it is to offer a long term contract to an ex Molde and Cardiff manager who's not come close to winning anything at United. I'm sure if you offer Brendan Rodgers the United role with the same resources he'd easily dwarf Ole's achievements at the club, but because the caf has memed him it's considered laughable.

Like you say, the only people happy with him being given a new contract outside of our delusional sentimental fans are - rival fans, and our ownership who are just happy to have a compliant lackey that achieves the bare minimum for us to remain being a profitable club for them to leech off. It really is quite depressing.

"Easily dwarf". What do you mean by that? That he'd easily win the league? That he'd easily win the FA cup? That he'd reach 4 cup finals instead of 4 semis?

 

[Andycoleno9]

There is a huge chance that after 3 seasons in charge (yes, first season counts too), Man Utd manager will get new contract with zero trophies won. Talking about standards of one of the biggest clubs in the world.

 

[OneUnited24]

There is a huge chance that after 3 seasons in charge (yes, first season counts too), Man Utd manager will get new contract with zero trophies won. Talking about standards of one of the biggest clubs in the world.

So half of a season counts as a full season to you? Right. Also I guess the squad he inherited was filled with WC talent

 

[Bilbo]

I think he's become too blinkered by this ''United DNA'' thing. I had a read of United's press release when Darren Fletcher joined United's coaching staff. When talking about Fletcher's appointment, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's first sentence was all about Fletcher having ''United DNA'', nothing to do with his coaching ability which came later on. It may not be a massive thing but Fletcher's coaching ability and what he will bring to United should have been mentioned first, then how Fletcher has ''United DNA'' dripping through his veins.

That's a soundbite for the fans as much as anything. We all like the sound of 'United DNA' because it makes it appear as though we have something unique, and maybe we do, but we probably don't. In reality all it means is that this person understands the inner workings of this club and that's no bad thing. Its something we should cherish.

People read too much into what Ole says publicly. They always have done. People need to understand that Ole, aside from being a football manager, is also the public figurehead of an enormous institution and he will be advised to use certain catchwords, such as 'United DNA' whenever possible because its good for the brand.

 

[Bilbo]

other than a portion of the United fanbase (the ones blinded by sentiment & United DNA etc) nobody rates OGS as a manager

other than a portion of the United fanbase (the ones blinded by rage, impatience and entitlement) nobody thinks OGS is deserving of being sacked

I like this blanket statement thing. Its easy and fun and not in any way ridiculous

 

[Andycoleno9]

So half of a season counts as a full season to you? Right. Also I guess the squad he inherited was filled with WC talent

He was hired in december not in march or april. So that half of season doesn't count? It is just free time? Not just for him, i am talking about every manager who is hired at half of season.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Under Solskjaer we've finished 6th (he took over a doomed season half way), 3rd and hopefully 2nd this season. On paper that is generally good progress, especially when you factor in he didn't get backed at all in the last transfer window, he was set up to fail.

My reservations are our playing style and lack of bottle in the closing stages of cups. I'd like to see him given another season as he deserves the chance to take the final step towards winning things. If it doesn't work out we move on.

We can't have another trophy less season finishing top 4.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Under Solskjaer we've finished 6th (he took over a doomed season half way), 3rd and hopefully 2nd this season. On paper that is generally good progress, especially when you factor in he didn't get backed at all in the last transfer window, he was set up to fail.

My reservations are our playing style and lack of bottle in the closing stages of cups. I'd like to see him given another season as he deserves the chance to take the final step towards winning things. If it doesn't work out we move on.

We can't have another trophy less season finishing top 4.

How he was not backed at all exactly? He got good attacking left back, talented midfielder and proven striker.
If you don't get Sancho and Varane, you are not backed?

 

[RkkMan]

How he was not backed at all exactly? He got good attacking left back, talented midfielder and proven striker.
If you don't get Sancho and Varane, you are not backed?

We didn't add a single starting 11 player despite holes at CB, RW and DM. VDB, Telles and Cavani(panic buy) were all back ups and Amad/Pellistri are signings for the future. Our holes at CB, RW and DM still remain and now we may have a problem in the ST position. Ole was not backed last summer.
In fact since he came he's only been given THREE starting 11 signings Maguire, Bruno and AWB

 

[RkkMan]

 

[Lewnited]

I just don't understand the rush for a new contract, the end of the season is literally only a few months away. Why not just wait and see how we finish? It's really not far fetched to say we could end up finishing this season 3rd and trophyless, is that still grounds for a new contract?

 

[AjaxCunian]

Under Solskjaer we've finished 6th (he took over a doomed season half way), 3rd and hopefully 2nd this season. On paper that is generally good progress, especially when you factor in he didn't get backed at all in the last transfer window, he was set up to fail.

My reservations are our playing style and lack of bottle in the closing stages of cups. I'd like to see him given another season as he deserves the chance to take the final step towards winning things. If it doesn't work out we move on.

We can't have another trophy less season finishing top 4.

He won 2/9 last PL games in that season where he joined, he bottled it. It was true that United looked doomed when he joined, but then they went on that amazing run (never replicated, the most significant new manager bounce I've ever seen).

They bottled it, United could have easily ended up in the top 4 but they just bottled. It is revisionist to suggest that 6th was the best possible that season, it was fantastic that that new manager bounce got us in a good place again, then they just bottled it and it's a big criticism to Ole. The last 5 matches were disgraceful.

 

[FireballXL5]

Wish I could get paid £30m knowing that actually winning stuff wasn't that important.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Wish I could get paid £30m knowing that actually winning stuff wasn't that important.

He gets a 33% pay rise, and well deserved. At least it isnt like he's permanently harming the club.

 

[Bilbo]

I just don't understand the rush for a new contract, the end of the season is literally only a few months away. Why not just wait and see how we finish? It's really not far fetched to say we could end up finishing this season 3rd and trophyless, is that still grounds for a new contract?

Because the club are already planning for next season. Can you imagine how much that planning would be impacted by having to sack a manager and then appoint a new one?

They've seen enough, and they are happy with the progress. Stupid not to renew as soon as possible.

 

[OleBoiii]

Yes! Loving it!

My faith in the club is slowly returning. Now if we could just commit to some heavy investments in terms of starting XI signings this summer, then that would be swell.

 

[Amir]

I think no one in a manager position will turn down if you got your players that you wants in no matter money when you need to accomplish the target. It is CEO/the Board's responsibility to decide and determine whether players' are worth with their asking price.

If a manager is not a complete moron, he knows that money as limited and that what he spends on one player will limit him in other deals. So yes, I assume that the board will let him know the limits and use his input and how that money is spent.

Also, you should consider why our buying cost is always larger than other club in post SAF era.
[/QUOTE]

It's because we're a big club, with a lot of money, changing managers and desperation that other clubs use. Simple.

It's not as simple as 'we're paying a lot because Woodward is shit at negotiations'. It's what we do that sends us to the negotiating table with a lesser hand that is the problem.

 

[Siorac]

Because the club are already planning for next season. Can you imagine how much that planning would be impacted by having to sack a manager and then appoint a new one?

They've seen enough, and they are happy with the progress. Stupid not to renew as soon as possible.

We did the exact same thing with Mourinho and ended up having to sack him anyway, with a HUGE payout on top. It's stupid to renew right now. He's not an in-demand manager who will be flooded by offers from better clubs if we don't nail him down. There's literally no downside to waiting.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

This club is doomed. Glaziers are lucky us fans are so loyal or half our fans would have left for City or Liverpool long ago.

 

[Bilbo]

We did the exact same thing with Mourinho and ended up having to sack him anyway, with a HUGE payout on top. It's stupid to renew right now. He's not an in-demand manager who will be flooded by offers from better clubs if we don't nail him down. There's literally no downside to waiting.

The problem with your section of our fanbase is that you still think the club are unsure about the direction they are taking, and clearly they aren't!

Everything we see from the club gives no wiggle room whatsoever to the reality that we are all-in on Ole and are happy with the progress that has been made and the plans for the future. Just get behind him, get your head around it, and do whatever you need to do to come to terms with it otherwise next season is going to be crap for you and maybe many more thereafter.

 

[Bocca9978]

I just don't understand the rush for a new contract, the end of the season is literally only a few months away. Why not just wait and see how we finish? It's really not far fetched to say we could end up finishing this season 3rd and trophyless, is that still grounds for a new contract?

We did the same with Mourinho. Game him a new contract, then spent the next year wishing we hadn't.
Agree with waiting until the end of the season with Ole.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

The constant is we're being ran by people who make poor choices when they select the managers - who then select the players.

As for Solskjaer and money, he doesn't sit on the trasnfer negotiations, but as head of the football department I'd expect he'd have input on the matter. What if he says he wants Dan James, and Woodward then comes back to him and says he's got a deal for 60m? you'd expect the manager to tell him to let this one go because it's way, way too much.

A manager's primary job isn't to "get the players". The James example is a bit of misleading, his price tag was one of the reasons we bought him. I'm sure Ole wasn't too dissapointed he didn't turn out to be Ribery and walk into our starting XI.

Maguire would be a better example. You could say Ole should have said no, but what if:

• the other candidates were equally overpriced because we're terrible at negotations?
• the club was unable to juggle multiple ongoing negotations and only Maguire was left standing in August?
• Ole only identified a handful of targets that weren't attainable and the scouting department didn't have a few lined up themselves?

Should he have identified even more targets? Should he have gotten Ed coffee so he'd do a better job? Would we be blaming him if he said no and gotten a worse CB instead? (Yes)

It's possible Ole overvalued Maguire, but given our history with overpaying across different managers it's unlikely.

If you think LVG and Mourinho weren't good managers and we need to cycle through some more to find another SAF-like anomaly, then we disagree. Seems like a lottery strategy as opposed to giving the guy that's involved with making structural changes to the club another year.

Response bolded within the quote:

Thats an awful lot of text to not really make any sort of point. I never said Ole had done a worse job on transfers than Jose or LVG. My point was that the value for money of our signings haven't improved under him. Because they haven't.

That's quite a lot of words for saying you think all their transfer records are equally shit. Got it.

Woodward and Judge and the scouting team are obviously the common theme throughout all of it. On the whole, they've proven to be shit at identifying players and shit at doing deals that get any sort of value. And they're abysmal with contract negotiation and strategy. We all know this it's very old news.

Yes.

But like you said, Ole has a veto and can identify his own targets, just as LVG and Mourinho could. But too often they didn't and signed off on Woodward-inspired deals that were economically ruinous.

Wrong, the majority of their signings were their own and that is one of our problems. Blind isn't a bad player, but he fits into LVG's style and not Mourinho's. Our club should be focused on continuity instead of giving carte blanches to very different managers hoping they stay 20 years.

LVG is on record saying he got players from his list, but never his primary choices and sometimes as bad as his 7th choice. Blind, Memphis, Rojo were clearly his. Mourinho got his own guys like Zlatan and Matic. Many managers wouldn't have been interested in Matic and a lot of them would've been in Pogba. There was nothing Woodward about most of our transfers.

Jose signed off on spending all that money on Pogba despite not having a clear plan to build a team around him, and targeted Matic and Lukaku to the club's detriment. LVG signed off on the mega deal for Di Maria despite knowing he didnt even fit into his planned system,

Nonsense. I'm sure Robben was top of the list and Di Maria somewhere below him. You'd be crazy not to have him in your list and LVG has said he never got players he didn't want. He didn't know he wouldn't work out in advance, it just turned out that way and wasn't a good match.

and his own targets turned out shit.

Yes.

Ole relied on poor advice to focus all of that money on AWB and Maguire,

We know this how exactly?

a right back who's only good for a team that doesn't have the ball, and a centre back who's so slow you can't ever play a high line.

AWB has had some games earlier in the season where he looked good going forward. It dropped off a bit after that game he where he messed up the offside trap twice in quick succession. I'm sure he'll improve. Why are we judging a youngish player in his first season that is close to having most minutes played out of any professional footballer in the world?

When's the last time Maguire's slowness cost us? Should be an easy question considering we play a high line whenever we can. There's a clip of him slightly outpacing Bailly in one of the performance threads. He's one of the most aerially dominant CBs in the world and he's good on the ball. We overpaid for a good CB.

Then he signed off on spending £40m on what was obviously a scouting department recommendation to sign VdB, despite clearly having no keen interest in the player himself, or plan for him once he got here. Also let's not forget Ole signed off on spending upwards of £100m of money the club didnt have for Sancho, and who knows how badly that might have ended up ranking in our history of shit signings. Therein my point: Ole has so far proven no upgrade on LVG or Mourinho in terms of long term damage to the club through shit transfer strategy.

"obviously", "clearly". Do you have evidence?

I'm sure Ole was familiar with a Dutch international that scored a bunch of goals in the knockout stages of the CL and EL across multiple years.

I think the hope was he'd show a bit more in the earlier stages of the season and he would've played more. Surely Ole wasn't expecting him to lose all his confidence when he became a cup player. I wouldn't write him off in his first season, not every transfer works out instantly.

I think on the whole Ole's record is proving to be better than that of his predecessors. LVG was a flop machine and I'm sure Ole's successor will be happy to inherit Amad and Pellistri instead of Matic.

 

[Siorac]

The problem with your section of our fanbase is that you still think the club are unsure about the direction they are taking, and clearly they aren't!

Everything we see from the club gives no wiggle room whatsoever to the reality that we are all-in on Ole and are happy with the progress that has been made and the plans for the future. Just get behind him, get your head around it, and do whatever you need to do to come to terms with it otherwise next season is going to be crap for you and maybe many more thereafter.

I still get to have an opinion though, don't I? Obviously I can't influence the club's decisions but I can say that they are stupid. And, well, based on our recent track record, there's a very good chance I'll turn out to be correct: we made a lot of stupid decisions. Again, let me refer to the Mourinho contract extension.

I was hoping we learned from that debacle - evidently not. Going all-in on a completely unproven manager who hasn't achieved anything at United yet either is another sign that we haven't learned our lessons.

But hey, we got through the last eight years of mediocrity, we'll get through the next eight years of it as well. And eventually there will be a European Super League and then I can stop bothering with football altogether so there's that to look forward to!

 

[Womp]

Stupid

 

[Kaos]

"Easily dwarf". What do you mean by that? That he'd easily win the league? That he'd easily win the FA cup? That he'd reach 4 cup finals instead of 4 semis?

I think with Rodgers we'd easily win a cup or two and come a lot closer to winning the league. That itself is huge progress. I think Ole has reached his ceiling with us and we aren't progressing any further. We could throw obscene amounts of money at players (doubtful with current ownership) and he might edge towards some silverware, but why bother if you can make improvements with simply a better coach. This club shouldn't be a training scheme for club legends, its that sentimentality that will end up costing us.

 

[Luffy]

I'm Ole out but I don't want Rodgers here.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I think with Rodgers we'd easily win a cup or two and come a lot closer to winning the league. That itself is huge progress. I think Ole has reached his ceiling with us and we aren't progressing any further. We could throw obscene amounts of money at players (doubtful with current ownership) and he might edge towards some silverware, but why bother if you can make improvements with simply a better coach. This club shouldn't be a training scheme for club legends, its that sentimentality that will end up costing us.

"Easily". Winning a cup or two with us would be like a walk in the park for the great Brendan Rodgers.

 

[Womp]

Interesting fact - he averages 1.84 points a match with us since becoming permanent manager. He had an almost identical record at Molde with 1.84 and 1.85 in his two stints there. So it's fair to say that's so far consistently his level.

He really needs to show he is better than that because simply put, that's not going to be enough in the Prem with this quality of coaching. Couple that with the fact that our football isn't the most exciting to watch and you can see why some people want him out/wish he would look into refreshing his coaching staff.

 

[OleBoiii]

Interesting fact - he averages 1.84 points a match with us since becoming permanent manager.

I wonder what the number is post Bruno? If I'm not mistaken we've played over 50 games since Bruno signed, so the number is not insignificant.

There used to be someone keeping track of it in here, but it's been maybe 4-5 months since I last saw it. The last time the number was around 2.1 points per game, which is very good.

 

[Foxbatt]

How he was not backed at all exactly? He got good attacking left back, talented midfielder and proven striker.
If you don't get Sancho and Varane, you are not backed?

What was the league position of United when Ole took over? I think it was the 6th? This would have been around the 15th of December

 

[Bilbo]

I still get to have an opinion though, don't I? Obviously I can't influence the club's decisions but I can say that they are stupid. And, well, based on our recent track record, there's a very good chance I'll turn out to be correct: we made a lot of stupid decisions. Again, let me refer to the Mourinho contract extension.

I was hoping we learned from that debacle - evidently not. Going all-in on a completely unproven manager who hasn't achieved anything at United yet either is another sign that we haven't learned our lessons.

But hey, we got through the last eight years of mediocrity, we'll get through the next eight years of it as well. And eventually there will be a European Super League and then I can stop bothering with football altogether so there's that to look forward to!

This really isn't that much like the Mourinho situation though. The reasons why have been done to death on here and people either see that and believe that or they don't.

I really do struggle to understand the level of dislike people have with this manager. It doesn't add up to me. Nobody thought we had a prayer of being 2nd after 30 games, but here we are. I get that the football is sloppy at times, I'm not blind, but I also see that we've played 32 times in 15.5 weeks, and haven't had a single midweek off all season. People just seem to completely discount that because......it doesn't fit what they want it to fit.

All we see on here is 'I don't think he's the guy to take us back to the top'. Its written constantly by all of the same people, often during posts where there's really no need to say it at all. You ask whether you can have that opinion? Of course you can. It doesn't mean that people who feel that way have to constantly just be a negative presence. It is possible to feel that way and still enjoy watching this club operate.

 

[Siorac]

What was the league position of United when Ole took over? I think it was the 6th? This would have been around the 15th of December

6th, with 26 points out of 17 games. A year later we had 25 after 17. And then Bruno happened.

 

[Bilbo]

I think with Rodgers we'd easily win a cup or two and come a lot closer to winning the league. That itself is huge progress. I think Ole has reached his ceiling with us and we aren't progressing any further. We could throw obscene amounts of money at players (doubtful with current ownership) and he might edge towards some silverware, but why bother if you can make improvements with simply a better coach. This club shouldn't be a training scheme for club legends, its that sentimentality that will end up costing us.

Do you think the recent Rodgers love-fest would be as strong as it is if, as United manager, he blew the same lead they had last season to miss out on top four (collapse)? Or lost 2-0 at home to Slavia Prague to go out of the Europa (bottlers)? Or lost to a really poor Villa team (that barely escaped relegation) over two legs last season in a semi-final (bottlers)?