Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've been patient with Ole. I personally think he's done a good job. But, I think this is as far as he should go. I don't see him pushing us on to win big trophies. We might win a cup - we could even win one this year. But I can't see him winning us PL or CL. He's just not learning.

Every time we come up against lower class opposition, teams we should be dominating - he sends out 2 defensive midfielders? It's absolutely mind numbing. OK, so last night I guess he was kind of forced into it with all the injuries. But even if VDB was fit, I've no doubt we'd have seen the same lineup. There's no urgency - Neville said it in commentary last night, it was like they thought a draw was a good result. Popping the ball around from side to side outside their box, hoping to put in a ball that a player basically has to control perfectly and instantly shoot to have a chance of scoring - with so many Palace players back.

We're so utterly reliant on Bruno that it's a joke. And he's clearly showing signs of fatigue, hasn't played particularly well in a while. This is basically what happened to us at the end of last year - he refused to rest him enough in games which were won, he tired at the end of the year and we just scraped over the line. Same thing is happening again, having played him last week in EL. He just doesn't rest him enough when he can. It's idiotic.

I've posted negatively about all of our forwards at different times this year - but at what point can it just not be a coincidence that every single one of them is out of form? Rashford is at least mostly scoring & creating goals, but he really hasn't been playing well. Greenwood & Martial have been downright abysmal. It's up to the coaching staff to turn that around.

As I say, he's done a good job to now - the difference in our squad is night and day, he has stabilised us. But to push us to the next level, someone else is required. That's not to say the next manager brought in will definitely do it - and I don't particularly have any names in mind - but I really don't feel Ole is going to do it.

There's enough evidence now.
 
I've been patient with Ole. I personally think he's done a good job. But, I think this is as far as he should go. I don't see him pushing us on to win big trophies. We might win a cup - we could even win one this year. But I can't see him winning us PL or CL. He's just not learning.

Every time we come up against lower class opposition, teams we should be dominating - he sends out 2 defensive midfielders? It's absolutely mind numbing. OK, so last night I guess he was kind of forced into it with all the injuries. But even if VDB was fit, I've no doubt we'd have seen the same lineup. There's no urgency - Neville said it in commentary last night, it was like they thought a draw was a good result. Popping the ball around from side to side outside their box, hoping to put in a ball that a player basically has to control perfectly and instantly shoot to have a chance of scoring - with so many Palace players back.

We're so utterly reliant on Bruno that it's a joke. And he's clearly showing signs of fatigue, hasn't played particularly well in a while. This is basically what happened to us at the end of last year - he refused to rest him enough in games which were won, he tired at the end of the year and we just scraped over the line. Same thing is happening again, having played him last week in EL. He just doesn't rest him enough when he can. It's idiotic.

I've posted negatively about all of our forwards at different times this year - but at what point can it just not be a coincidence that every single one of them is out of form? Rashford is at least mostly scoring & creating goals, but he really hasn't been playing well. Greenwood & Martial have been downright abysmal. It's up to the coaching staff to turn that around.

As I say, he's done a good job to now - the difference in our squad is night and day, he has stabilised us. But to push us to the next level, someone else is required. That's not to say the next manager brought in will definitely do it - and I don't particularly have any names in mind - but I really don't feel Ole is going to do it.

There's enough evidence now.

You've forgotten the times he played Pogba in front of the defense and he'd move him to the left to put in McFred in big games? He didn't have much choice in midfield last night because of injuries.
 
Im disappointed in how risk adverse he is at the moment. For someone who played in the sides he played in and understands the notion of attacking. It’s alarming how little we’ve gone all out to win games recently.

I watched two games on Sky Sports today, both against Spurs. We lost one 3-2 but for most of the second half we had Rooney, van Persie, Kagawa, Nani and Scholes all on the pitch and Rafael and Evra were basically wingers. The other one was 5-2, Ronaldo, Rooney, Berbatov, Tevez, Scholes all on the pitch at the same time to try and win the game.

That comment he made about already having attackers on, it’s like he didn’t even consider the thought of just putting on more attackers for defenders or defensive midfielders. Just fecking go for it!
 
Im disappointed in how risk adverse he is at the moment. For someone who played in the sides he played in and understands the notion of attacking. It’s alarming how little we’ve gone all out to win games recently.

I watched two games on Sky Sports today, both against Spurs. We lost one 3-2 but for most of the second half we had Rooney, van Persie, Kagawa, Nani and Scholes all on the pitch and Rafael and Evra were basically wingers. The other one was 5-2, Ronaldo, Rooney, Berbatov, Tevez, Scholes all on the pitch at the same time to try and win the game.

That comment he made about already having attackers on, it’s like he didn’t even consider the thought of just putting on more attackers for defenders or defensive midfielders. Just fecking go for it!
Those names compared to perhaps throwing 17 year old Shortire on. How far we've fallen.
 
You've forgotten the times he played Pogba in front of the defense and he'd move him to the left to put in McFred in big games? He didn't have much choice in midfield last night because of injuries.
Yeah, I said that about last night. True, we had moved to playing Pogba for a while ... but for the most part it's 2 defensive mids. And it's mind numbing against teams like Palace.
 
Those names compared to perhaps throwing 17 year old Shortire on. How far we've fallen.
We once threw a 17-year old by the name of Macheda to score one of the most important goals in the season. I agree we don't have the same quality as previous teams but sometimes you have to roll the dice to see what comes out of it. I was quite disappointed yesterday that we didnt take Matic off for one of the youngsters to add attacking impetus.
 
I can't get my head around his choices of late, he's placing kids on the bench that we know he's never going to use in these games and he's leaving the likes of Mata at home.

The commentators called it last night, the bench was weak, by bringing on a sub you weren't improving the team you were making it weaker.
 
I really dislike how everybody has to prefix everything with "Something positive BUT" as our fanbase is so close to civil war over the matter.

At least with Mourinho and Moyes you could come out and say what you feel.
 
I've been patient with Ole. I personally think he's done a good job. But, I think this is as far as he should go. I don't see him pushing us on to win big trophies. We might win a cup - we could even win one this year. But I can't see him winning us PL or CL. He's just not learning.

Every time we come up against lower class opposition, teams we should be dominating - he sends out 2 defensive midfielders? It's absolutely mind numbing. OK, so last night I guess he was kind of forced into it with all the injuries. But even if VDB was fit, I've no doubt we'd have seen the same lineup. There's no urgency - Neville said it in commentary last night, it was like they thought a draw was a good result. Popping the ball around from side to side outside their box, hoping to put in a ball that a player basically has to control perfectly and instantly shoot to have a chance of scoring - with so many Palace players back.

We're so utterly reliant on Bruno that it's a joke. And he's clearly showing signs of fatigue, hasn't played particularly well in a while. This is basically what happened to us at the end of last year - he refused to rest him enough in games which were won, he tired at the end of the year and we just scraped over the line. Same thing is happening again, having played him last week in EL. He just doesn't rest him enough when he can. It's idiotic.

I've posted negatively about all of our forwards at different times this year - but at what point can it just not be a coincidence that every single one of them is out of form? Rashford is at least mostly scoring & creating goals, but he really hasn't been playing well. Greenwood & Martial have been downright abysmal. It's up to the coaching staff to turn that around.

As I say, he's done a good job to now - the difference in our squad is night and day, he has stabilised us. But to push us to the next level, someone else is required. That's not to say the next manager brought in will definitely do it - and I don't particularly have any names in mind - but I really don't feel Ole is going to do it.

There's enough evidence now.
Great post, I've basically been saying this all season to be honest but nothing changes. Love Ole as a player, love Ole as a person, but as a manager he's certainly not my cup of tea.
 
I really dislike how everybody has to prefix everything with "Something positive BUT" as our fanbase is so close to civil war over the matter.

At least with Mourinho and Moyes you could come out and say what you feel.

He has done some good stuff mate but maybe probably he could be not good enough, I'm not sure though.
 
Yeah, I said that about last night. True, we had moved to playing Pogba for a while ... but for the most part it's 2 defensive mids. And it's mind numbing against teams like Palace.

Who would you have played with Pogba and Donny out? Is it Ole's fault Fred, Bruno and Rashford had their worst performance of the season?
 
Had a quick skim read and the glee some seem to be posting with is funny as if you’ve all been waiting for a game like this so you can jump out and say seeeeeeeeeee
 
Did he win a Cup in Europe with any club before he came to United? Did he win any trophy in any decent league? SAF did.

I’ll give you winning a Euro cup with Aberdeen, but winning the league/a trophy in a “decent” league - Scotland is not a decent league.

It’s on par with League 2, I’ve known players struggle to get into League1/2 teams and then go boss it in Scotland.

It’s nothing special.

What I dislike the most is this very thread grows tenfold with a loss/draw but barely gets a look when we win. This forum hates to be happy and thrives on being unhappy

There’s a agenda against Ole, people are blind to the good he’s done and thrive for short term success.
 
Who would you have played with Pogba and Donny out? Is it Ole's fault Fred, Bruno and Rashford had their worst performance of the season?
It might be Oles fault as all three played the home tie vs real Sociedad when there was no need to play them at all.

We werent 1 or 2 goals up, we were 4 goals up
I'm not surprised they then played the next two games and looked very leggy and tired

Would the rest have helped? Who knows, maybe?
But I can tell that it certainly didn't help that they had about 45 minutes at least.

And tbh if they are having bad performances, he's the manager, he could have taken off Fred much earlier. He still had one sub so could have taken off one of Bruno or Rashford and tried something different.
 
He's a cowardly manager, refuses to take risks before/during games because he's too scared to lose rather than risking it to win.
 
He's a cowardly manager, refuses to take risks before/during games because he's too scared to lose rather than risking it to win.

Hilarious

If he took risks and lost this place would have a field day
 
I’ll give you winning a Euro cup with Aberdeen, but winning the league/a trophy in a “decent” league - Scotland is not a decent league.

It’s on par with League 2, I’ve known players struggle to get into League1/2 teams and then go boss it in Scotland.

It’s nothing special.

What I dislike the most is this very thread grows tenfold with a loss/draw but barely gets a look when we win. This forum hates to be happy and thrives on being unhappy

There’s a agenda against Ole, people are blind to the good he’s done and thrive for short term success.
There is no agenda. Maybe from a small minority of posters but that's it. The rest of us are struggling to see any kind of sustainable progress that will make us believe that he will lead us back to the top. I was supporting him the entirety of last year as I felt he had been dealt with a bad hand and did a great job in navigating us to third place. However, there is no excuse for the kind of football we have seen over the last month and a half. Winning / losing are part and parcel of the game but the least a Manchester United manager should do is to have the relentless desire to win. You cannot afford to just be hopeful and not ring in the changes when the plan is not working. I mean we were playing Crystal Palace and we had 2 DMs on the field. Matic spent the majority of the game occupying a left back position during build up. How is that supposed to give us a structure to build any attacks? Why didn't he yank him off at half time or 60 minutes and replace him with Amad or Shoretire. Or if the youngsters were not ready then keep Cavani on the field and bring in James instead of Matic.

He has done some good things but it is becoming evidently clear that he is not the person to take us to the next step unless he changes his risk averse nature.
 
It might be Oles fault as all three played the home tie vs real Sociedad when there was no need to play them at all.

We werent 1 or 2 goals up, we were 4 goals up
I'm not surprised they then played the next two games and looked very leggy and tired

Would the rest have helped? Who knows, maybe?
But I can tell that it certainly didn't help that they had about 45 minutes at least.

And tbh if they are having bad performances, he's the manager, he could have taken off Fred much earlier. He still had one sub so could have taken off one of Bruno or Rashford and tried something different.

I've been one of Ole's harshest critics when it comes to his sub policy. Full on agree with you there.

But Rashy, Bruno and Fred all playing 45 minutes in the 2nd leg EL leg seemed like good man management, especially when you consider Pogba, Donny, McTominay, Cavani were all out.

Do you really think Fred would not have constantly given the ball away when not under pressure vs Palace if he hadn't played 45 minutes vs Sociedad? Would u have started Galbraith or Tuanzebe in midfield in the 2nd Sociedad game?
 
Hilarious

If he took risks and lost this place would have a field day
This is a ridiculous argument. Ifs, buts, maybes. If he takes risks and loses, he takes the criticism as well, but much less because he was brave. The Manchester United manager ended a game we needed to win with a flat back 4 and two big holding midfielders. Do Ole fans really think that is fine? I said this in a previous post, would City end a 0-0 against a mid-table team with a Rodri-Fernandinho midfield or Pool with a Fabinho-Henderson midfielder? We had less shots on target than Palace and created 3 half-chances all game. Aside from that, we just passed it sideways.

We all praise when it’s time to praise (like we all justifiably did after Southampton), but Ole fans just do not criticise for some reason. You do know it’s fine to criticise Ole like you did with Mourinho right? It’s ok to go against his managerial cowardice last night. You’re seriously implying that a draw is a good, if not acceptable result.
 
I still like some of the changes Ole has been making to the team and club. But he needs to do something drastic to improve the team. It's either hiring a more qualified coach (not the like of Fletcher with 3 months of "coaching experience", or hiring a nobody from small team in US). But professionals.

He needs to change his mindset on subs. He played for 10 years under one of the best Manager of all time. Why would he think his subs timing is better than SAF? That's just stupid.

And again, he needs to prioritize competitions he's in. Be smart on managing the strength of your squad.
Just don't think he will bring in an outside experience coach, firstly they might actually know more than him and secondly he might see him as a threat. It is a nice cosy setup at the moment.
 
I’ll give you winning a Euro cup with Aberdeen, but winning the league/a trophy in a “decent” league - Scotland is not a decent league.

It’s on par with League 2, I’ve known players struggle to get into League1/2 teams and then go boss it in Scotland.

It’s nothing special.

What I dislike the most is this very thread grows tenfold with a loss/draw but barely gets a look when we win. This forum hates to be happy and thrives on being unhappy

There’s a agenda against Ole, people are blind to the good he’s done and thrive for short term success.

The Scottish league was very competitive in the 80s. And breaking the Old Firm grip at the top of the table is an accomplishment at anytime, even if the league is significantly weaker nowadays. That wasn't the case when Fergie managed it, so let's stop downplaying that amazing achievement to build up Ole and his frankly substandard CV.
 
So it’s not nonsense then?, it just depends who you ask

Well this place wouldnt have a field day if we had a proper go, throw a kitchen sink at them etc. Ye portion that drools over top 4 would use it against Ole but a field day and whole place, nah, nonsense.

Edit: Dunno why i replied to your post and how that happened.
 
There is the possibility we could have actually won the game, not sure why people lap up so much mediocrity.

I agree that James could have come on sooner, but throwing Diallo or Shoretire out there would not have made much difference imo. People would like him to haul of Rashford to "tech him a lesson" but i highly doubt subbing in some kids fresh from the academy would have improved our chances at winning
 
I’ll give you winning a Euro cup with Aberdeen, but winning the league/a trophy in a “decent” league - Scotland is not a decent league.

It’s on par with League 2, I’ve known players struggle to get into League1/2 teams and then go boss it in Scotland.

It’s nothing special.

What I dislike the most is this very thread grows tenfold with a loss/draw but barely gets a look when we win. This forum hates to be happy and thrives on being unhappy

There’s a agenda against Ole, people are blind to the good he’s done and thrive for short term success.

Strange post, complaining about an agenda and then posting like you have one. Scottish league was very different back then and Fergie’s achievements at Aberdeen were way more than nothing special.

Ole has no pedigree as a top class manager, he’ll never be like Fergie or Pep or Klopp, it’s time to put all those comparisons to bed.
 
Hilarious

If he took risks and lost this place would have a field day
I agree that James could have come on sooner, but throwing Diallo or Shoretire out there would not have made much difference imo. People would like him to haul of Rashford to "tech him a lesson" but i highly doubt subbing in some kids fresh from the academy would have improved our chances at winning

Subbing on an extra attacker for a midfielder might have.

It's what Fergie would do
 
I've been patient with Ole. I personally think he's done a good job. But, I think this is as far as he should go. I don't see him pushing us on to win big trophies. We might win a cup - we could even win one this year. But I can't see him winning us PL or CL. He's just not learning.

Every time we come up against lower class opposition, teams we should be dominating - he sends out 2 defensive midfielders? It's absolutely mind numbing. OK, so last night I guess he was kind of forced into it with all the injuries. But even if VDB was fit, I've no doubt we'd have seen the same lineup. There's no urgency - Neville said it in commentary last night, it was like they thought a draw was a good result. Popping the ball around from side to side outside their box, hoping to put in a ball that a player basically has to control perfectly and instantly shoot to have a chance of scoring - with so many Palace players back.

We're so utterly reliant on Bruno that it's a joke. And he's clearly showing signs of fatigue, hasn't played particularly well in a while. This is basically what happened to us at the end of last year - he refused to rest him enough in games which were won, he tired at the end of the year and we just scraped over the line. Same thing is happening again, having played him last week in EL. He just doesn't rest him enough when he can. It's idiotic.

I've posted negatively about all of our forwards at different times this year - but at what point can it just not be a coincidence that every single one of them is out of form? Rashford is at least mostly scoring & creating goals, but he really hasn't been playing well. Greenwood & Martial have been downright abysmal. It's up to the coaching staff to turn that around.

As I say, he's done a good job to now - the difference in our squad is night and day, he has stabilised us. But to push us to the next level, someone else is required. That's not to say the next manager brought in will definitely do it - and I don't particularly have any names in mind - but I really don't feel Ole is going to do it.

There's enough evidence now.
Good post I'm very much in the same boat now.
 
Well this place wouldnt have a field day if we had a proper go, throw a kitchen sink at them etc. Ye portion that drools over top 4 would use it against Ole but a field day and whole place, nah, nonsense.

Edit: Dunno why i replied to your post and how that happened.
No worries, I kind of agree with you in that obviously every fan base will have different ideas in what a manager should have done, I just think with Ole it’s magnified tenfold and people waiting to have their pop are doing so with glee.

You can’t have a decent conversation here, you can quote a post you disagree with and try and have a conversation about something but it just gets shut down with out of his depth, can’t coach comments. How Can someone even refute that when it’s made up in the first place
 
I agree that James could have come on sooner, but throwing Diallo or Shoretire out there would not have made much difference imo. People would like him to haul of Rashford to "tech him a lesson" but i highly doubt subbing in some kids fresh from the academy would have improved our chances at winning
How do you know putting amad on wouldn't have made any difference, obviously he is raw but a change of shape with bruno dropping a bit deeper in place of one of the two holding midfielders and putting two up top might have at least shaken things up a bit. We could have played another 90 minutes with the same players / formation yesterday and not scored

Trying something different might have at least added a bit more urgency, as it was it just felt like ole and the players were happy to draw against an injury hit crystal palace
 
Hilarious

If he took risks and lost this place would have a field day
I think the more neutral way to look at this, is that there's a reason a Win is worth 3 points versus 1 for a Draw - it's supposed to encourage teams to try and win.

We've drawn 6 games, I think it is now, 0-0 which is 6 points, even losing 4 of them we'd be in the same place had we won the others. I would get the logic behind the pragmatism if we were a lower table team and the risk is too great but I hope standards haven't fallen so far we now are unsure we can beat Palace who have one of the worst defensive records in the league and had 9 players out injured.
 
I've been one of Ole's harshest critics when it comes to his sub policy. Full on agree with you there.

But Rashy, Bruno and Fred all playing 45 minutes in the 2nd leg EL leg seemed like good man management, especially when you consider Pogba, Donny, McTominay, Cavani were all out.

Do you really think Fred would not have constantly given the ball away when not under pressure vs Palace if he hadn't played 45 minutes vs Sociedad? Would u have started Galbraith or Tuanzebe in midfield in the 2nd Sociedad game?
Based on our subs I would have gone
Williams for AWB (given AWB the full on rest)
Tuanzebe in midfield dropping to a three at back (instead of Fred)
Diallo or Galbraith instead of Bruno.

I would have then had Rashford, Fred, AWB, Maguire, Shaw on the bench.

Had it gone to 2-0 then you make one or two subs to provide more balance. I think it was the perfect opportunity for rest amongst these heavy games (honestly Iwould have left Bruno unused completely). We might have lost the game but we were never losing 4-0 or 6-1. Our safety net was so big we could have afforded rest despite a huge number of injuries. I mean that game isnt the main reason were not winning these games, but it certainly doesnt help.
Bruno starting the game was nonsense imo.

I agree with you about the Fred point, but over using some of our players doesnt help as we saw towards the end of last season when we kept picking the same line up and not freshening things up.
 
Honestly with Ole saying we won't be up to much and us showing very little improvement under him there would be no reason to continue with him as manager next season
 
I think the more neutral way to look at this, is that there's a reason a Win is worth 3 points versus 1 for a Draw - it's supposed to encourage teams to try and win.

We've drawn 6 games, I think it is now, 0-0 which is 6 points, even losing 4 of them we'd be in the same place had we won the others. I would get the logic behind the pragmatism if we were a lower table team and the risk is too great but I hope standards haven't fallen so far we now are unsure we can beat Palace who have one of the worst defensive records in the league and had 9 players out injured.
Agree, and I also dont think people would have a field day. A lot may say the team isnt good enough, but at least Ole is being proactive (and whats letting him down is the quality of individuals which needs to be addressed)
 
I think the more neutral way to look at this, is that there's a reason a Win is worth 3 points versus 1 for a Draw - it's supposed to encourage teams to try and win.

We've drawn 6 games, I think it is now, 0-0 which is 6 points, even losing 4 of them we'd be in the same place had we won the others. I would get the logic behind the pragmatism if we were a lower table team and the risk is too great but I hope standards haven't fallen so far we now are unsure we can beat Palace who have one of the worst defensive records in the league and had 9 players out injured.

Spot on. You simply have to go for the win.

Maybe not against the better teams like City but when you are drawing with the fodder of the league you put an extra attacker in and go for it.
 
Honestly with Ole saying we won't be up to much and us showing very little improvement under him there would be no reason to continue with him as manager next season

If we get top4, thats the first time since 12/13 that weve finished top 4 in consecutive seasons. That is improvement.
Theres no chance we get rid of him should he do that (and although were limping right now, we still have a cushion that should see us get it as it stands).

The summer will certainly be interesting as we need a cm, striker and possibly a cb. I can see us getting 1 good target and a couple of squad players though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.