Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Ole too nice though eh?
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Typically, this was another slugfest on home turf. "Stop f-----g giving the ball away," Solskjaer shouted in the 115th minute. He will be particularly grateful for the five-day gap between West Ham and West Brom away following the two-hour slog and such tight games have denied United outright championship challenger status as they fade into also-rans.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...st-ham-19805526.amp?__twitter_impression=true
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Typically, this was another slugfest on home turf. "Stop f-----g giving the ball away," Solskjaer shouted in the 115th minute. He will be particularly grateful for the five-day gap between West Ham and West Brom away following the two-hour slog and such tight games have denied United outright championship challenger status as they fade into also-rans.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...st-ham-19805526.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Another defensive borefest.
Yeah you’re right, Moyes’s West Ham did produce another defensive borefest.
Desperately want him to keep faith with Deano on Sunday but just know that isn't going to happen however he performed tonight because think he is still a bit too sentimental on this one and won't drop DDG.
I wish Ole had started his United reign with those 5. I don't think you made the point you thought you were making.Okay. So I had a look. These are are the players Pep had from their last title winning team.
Hart (loaned out)
Kompany
Aguero
David Silva
Yaya Toure
Im open for anyone to explain to me what they meant when they said he had a title winning team.
Not happy with the 49 league goals?
Anyteam in the world would miss Bruno at present, you have to feel sorry for VDB, with Bruno ahead of him you justifiably might feel some pressure. As for Rashford getting better on his own, fantastic, but how many don’t? Rashfords stats speak for him. We had mourinho too. Two supposed to be world class managers managing us and we think ole isn’t good enough?
Agreed 4 great, great outfield players. How much are they worth in a non pandemic market?
9-0 vs Soton and 3-3 vs Everton, our most recent results going into this fixture. We proceed to advance after beating 6th place West Ham 1-0 and we're apparently back to the LVG days and bottling another semi-final as a result. I'm amused, thank you.
Don't agree with the sentiment that only Klopp and Pep would be clear improvements over Ole. I would take any of Rodgers, Rose, Nagelsmann - all of which have shown they can make a team greater than the sum of their parts - especially from an offensive POV. With a smaller budget/inferior players.
The days of the pragmatic manager are done imo. It's why the Jose's and Ancelotti's etc are now at lesser clubs. The best teams these days absolutely dominate, have a set identity - most likely a high intensity press, fast ball movement and passing patterns.
The days of the pragmatic manager are done imo. It's why the Jose's and Ancelotti's etc are now at lesser clubs. The best teams these days absolutely dominate, have a set identity - most likely a high intensity press, fast ball movement and passing patterns.
He had:
De Gea
Pogba
Rashford
Martial
Lukaku
Did he need a better 5? It wasn’t the point I was making but I’ll follow up on your point. Did Ole have a bad 5?
The 5 you've listed are going to go in PL team of the decade. In these 5, only Dave would go in.
Rashford and Martial were 21 and 23 respectively. Potentially great players, but still young to perform on a week on week basis
Wish we avoided the 30 extra minutes. Other than that he had Moyes in his pocket the entire match. Total domination against a team that played antifootball and sat back in their own third for 120 minutes, and I think our pressing was at times very good. I find it hard to complain about his dispositions today: He gave DVB a fair chance to shine, Telles, Matic, Henderson, Greenwood got starts and Martial and Rashford got to start in their favourite positions. We got some answers and are through to the quarters. All good.
The list of City players you mentioned was the players in his squad that had won the PL (the only player in that list with a PL trophy is DDG), the squad he inherrited also had:
KDB
Navas
Kolarov
Sterling
Nasri
Fernandinho
Fernando
Otamendi
Sagna
Zabaleta
Mangala
Demichelis
plus the mentioned:
Hart
Kompany
Silva
Yaya
Aguero
I'm willing to suggest Pep inherrited a lot more quality than what Ole did. Do you really think the squad Ole inherrited was of the same quality? I don't think it was even close...
But this isn't even a comparible argument.
Guardiola came into a club that were expecting him to come in... they'd been building towards Guardiola for years... hiring his best mate as director of football in 2011, hiring a manager in Pellegrini who plays the same philosophy as Guardiola and who is on record as saying he was keeping the seat warm for Guardiola...
Solskjaer came in to United after two failed high-profile managers undid all of the work Sir Alex had done in the previous quarter of a century. Solskjaer's job wasn't to turn up to a job that had literally been fine-tuned to his football philosophy; he turned up and had to begin again - clearing out the dross of players collated by those two 'world class managers' before him and then starting to rebuild a mentality and philosophy that would take United places in time. He is literally half-way through that plan and is ahead of schedule.
Solskjaer's job can't be compared to Pep.
It can be compared to Klopp coming into Liverpool in 2015, though. (who finished 8th, 4th, 4th, 2nd, 1st)
And it can be compared to Sir Alex coming into United in 1986. (who finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th, 2nd, 1st)
Solskjaer's job is to reset the philosophy and mentality of a sleeping giant (like Klopp and Ferguson).
It's fair to say that he has, at least, reawoken that giant quicker than both Klopp and Fergie... Yet the giant ain't quite out of bed yet... the next 2-3 seasons will hopefully see us rise and win a league title and hopefully that sets us up for a period of dominance... He's certainly started great (finishing 6th, 3rd - and now 2nd). We have such a young, promising squad... Ole has done a stellar job. No doubt about it.
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Yes, I am. But I don't think we play attractive football and I don't think we are creating that much. Yes, we have one in like four games that we create much, but most of the time, we aren't creating many chances. However, we are one of the most, if not the most, effective team in the league.
Very high praise from Shaw: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...neker-hard-time-Jose-Mourinho-Man-United.html
I genuinely think that being a good man manager is at least 70% of the job, so I'm happy to read this.
I genuinely think that being a good man manager is at least 70% of the job, so I'm happy to read this.
This what happens on this thread you discuss a point it grows and then people forget the actual point being discussed.. then try and come at you with a new point that has nothing to do with the original point.
The whole point was that Pep inherited a title winning team. Not a good team not a team filled with XYZ. Just a title winning team. I then flipped it to say Ole inherited a Europa winning team, not a good team not a team filled with XYZ.
Tell me if I am wrong but I believe both points are true.
Some clever clogs then decided to point out only 6 of that Europa league winning team still remained at the club when Ole took over. So I asked how many of Pep’s title winning team did he inherit... Silence.. so I decided to have a look and list them. There is as 5. 1 he sent on loan and the other he already had a big falling out with and didn’t use.
So I’d like to think the point was irrelevant and it could have been left there. But no someone then decided to bring up the quality aspect. Informing me those 5 players was way better than what we had. So I gave them 5 quality players that we had.
You can also tell me if I’m wrong but I fail to accept those players listed aren’t quality players. Whether they are world Class or the best players the premier league has ever seen. They are quality players. But like I said let me know if you disagree.
I’m not trying to convince people Ole should win Manchester United the title because Pep did. All I am doing is presenting facts to silly quotes that have been mentioned.
Fair argument.. but that wasn’t the point I was making.
I have no idea what argument is being made here, as their thread has been a trainwreck, but if you really regard - Aguero, an old Yaya Toure, Kompany, Silva and Fernandinho in the same bracket as Dave, a 21 year old Marcus, Martial, Lingard, Shaw (who barely played in EL) and Pogba (who was injured for 75% of the season), then I'm not sure if there is anything left to be said
I guess I can't argue with the bolded part.
Agree that it doesn't matter if they inherrited a winning team or not, what matters is the quality of the players in the squad they inherrited.
I think Pep inherrited a much better squad though and started his City career by using the summer window well (Gundo, Sane, Stones and Nolito in the summer, Jesus in the first Jan window) before season start. So comparing the the two based on win percentages and trophies when starting points were so different isn't really fair to either.
I know most people were wanting early subs yesterday, but i had no issues with a lack of changes as it was the FA Cup and he clearly wanted the game done without having to use the likes of Bruno / Cavani.
You make some good points.
Shocking, but nothing comes as a surprise anymore. It’s difficult to find better words when people wants to replace Ole with Rodgers, Rose and Nagelsmann
We are third in total shots taken link and Bruno tops the charts of "big chances created" and Shaw is at an tied 8 place with the likes of Son and Salah
There’s isn’t anything left to be sad because we are having totally different arguments. Respectfully.
But on your point I have to add. The quality within our squad has never been a problem. We’ve had and have some very good players. We look even better now too.
Wow.
I'm not saying that Van Gaal or Mourinho were excellent, but to put the blame entirely on the them seems a bit harsh. We had a pretty shocking squad under Van Gaal, though he must take some of the blame for that. It got better under Mourinho, but a lot of his singings underperformed or were short-term solutions.
If you look at the strength of the average PL winner over the last 20 years, then I'd argue we're 1 or 2 top signings ala Bruno away from that. People can't keep getting away with using the same outlier examples over and over again. For every Leicester there are 20 PL winners that were significantly stronger than we are now.
I think the only time I can remember him being visibly angry in his technical area was when he yelled at Lingard for giving the ball away and threatened to hook him. I don't really care if he just sits and looks at his monitor - not sure if he's just catching up on a series or has some bird's eye cam going on but it's fair to say most managers are a lot more active on the touchline and, especially now there are no crowds, a lot more active in coaching/giving tactical instructions from the box.
I am aware Carrick might be doing this but he's so quiet and meek, I don't know how anyone would ever know. I swear I saw him shout once into his coat when a decision went against us.
I think it's also down to him being on the touchline when there's action going on. When the camera can't be looking at him because there's active play going on. He's not one to stand there after the fact to yell madly at players (unless really needed).
If you check out the pitchside cam videos from matches that we sometimes post on the United youtube channel he looks to be much more often on the touchline barking orders than you get the impression of if just watching the TV broadcast.
Just wanted to highlight this post that I think most missed over the weekend (probably cause it's so long!)
I just want to give kudos to you @Toshey for remaining so positive.
Personally I was so disappointed on Saturday evening that I had to stay away from here until next match day. (I even gave a door a good punch for the first time in years from the disappointing over-time goal.) At 2-0 up I was thinking finally we had a game where we looked in control early and the victory was never in doubt, alas. Thus the disappointment was bigger than SU that just felt unfair.
Yet here you were the very next morning bleeding United through and through. I basically agree with everything you wrote, although even I don't have as rose-tinted glasses always.
I wanted Ole to take over after SAF ever since he retired as a player and worked in his team, but I expected SAF to keep going some more years for Ole to get more experience first.
I'm delighted that we now have him as our Manager and that the progress seem to be going well even though we have some iffy results at times. I'm always looking forward to the next match. The biggest plus for me is the squad mentality, how they act with each other on and off the field, they seem to be buzzing. Now we just need to draw on experienced players to get results in nervy games, and I'm certain we're looking at some very promising years ahead.
Yes I have seen him coming down more recently - I guess cameras only really pan to managers for reactions, not to just watch them 'working' so we only see a snippet.
Ole has turned this club around. To replace him now with the next big shiny thing would not only be disgraceful, but would be one of the greatest pieces of self sabotage in football history.
Shooting doesn't mean creating. Isn't surprising to see Bruno up there either, if anything it says that we are relying upon individual performances rather than team play to create chances.
Okay shooting isnt creating. How about "Big Chances Created"?
We are 2nd with 48 City with 50. Or does it not count because we rely on individuals too much?
Yeah, the players wouldn't be very happy about it, I wouldn't think.
His opinion is wrong, I'm sure he can see that too, just too proud to admit it.
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