Fair enough. And yes Valencia did turn into a good right back that is true.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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So you admit Ole’s recruitment has been poor?
So why didn’t Pep win or challenge the league in 2016/2017 when there was no Mendy and Delph was around? Even with Kompany in his defense, why did he still need 290m investment on just defense before he won his first league title?
Your point is weak. I can also say same shit our defense is not better because we have Lindelof, Bailly, Tuanzebe, DDG.
Pep won the league after spending 290m on defense ffs! Klopp won the league after spending 200m on defense ffs! If you got four top players in five position in defense, that’s nothing. 4 Top players can make one player better and that’s why we all here saying top keeper and top centre back will make our defense and team much better.
Like I said before it’s your problem that you can’t see our style and the direction of where the manager is going. After watching us this season, even our last game against Everton and also very my first and second posts of our conversation, if you still don’t understand and can’t see it then that’s your problem that I can’t solve any longer.
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The clubs recruitment have been poor since Ferguson retired. Ole and whoever replaces him will have their hands tied so long as Woodward and Judge are over transfers and player contracts. How many years ago is it now since United was promised a DOF?
Utter rubbish.
Every single one of Citys central defenders is better than ours except Maguire (arguably even that's pushing it).
City have double the amount of RBs.
City have world class RWs that are on the bench because of Foden in the last game. We have Greenwood who isnt a RW to many.
What about fernandinho and Rodri? Who di we have as pure CDM? Matic
They have Bernardo silva on the bench for creativity alongside others like KDb and Foden. We arguably only have Bruno as a pure creative CAM.
Gabriel Jesus to many is on a similar level atleast or better to Martial after judging Martial's thread about him being a more Arsenal player and not even good enough for a 2nd striker role for teams fighting for the Pl.
What about de gea mate? We have opposition surrounding de gea with 6 players during corners - since he doesnt come out to play the ball, they cover him from making a damn reflex save.
Why do you think we have such a simple problem that can be sorted out by the Manager? This shit cant be made because it's the left overs from previous managers most of the time that Ole has done well to get a result out from.
We have significant gaps in our system because for most of the time - we didnt have a system that was cohesive at United from top to bottom.
The moment we get something like that building up the "fans" start crying because we dont win a title by the 2nd season.
Ew.
How did you came up to that conclusion? about having a top striker wouldnt improve us goal wise and would make the others score less? the evidence is there in the Big chances missed stat. Literally those are chances that under a proper defiition they would had end up in goals.
I think we still need a RW before a striker but we definitely need to improve in the striker position as well.
Its clear the managers influence the players we buy, or LVG players were totally his decision, same with Mourinho and I think its been no different with Ole. A manager with a good eye for talent would make it good here.
I think the DOF is more about keeping contracts in line, something we are awful at, and the recruitment team is about spoting young talents. For solidified anyone can do the job, its not rocket science to spot Sancho, Haaland, Kounde at this point.
LVG has said few of his targets was brought in at United and the club was run by bankers instead football men. Mourinho complained throughout his time as United manager.
If it ever happens a DOF needs to be someone as good and has as much involvement in transfers as Michael Edwards at Liverpool.
I agree a DOF is needed, what I dont agree with is that no matter which manager arrives they wont make any impact in signings since a DOF is missing.
Mourinho complained because the lack of activity in his second window, not because of the transfers themselves. We all know the board invest heavily when we miss on top 4 and penny pinches when we do.
I would not even mention Greenwood when I talk about players being in their prime but when players hit the 23/24 Mark we are not really talking potential anymore but performance.
The reason why he said it was to lower expectation and take pressure of the players as there was title talk when we were in pole position as there would be if any top side was in that position.
Ole made a statement not so long ago that went something like; 'I would rather be an optimist and be wrong than be a pessimist and be right'
As a football fan and in life I have always thought that way as it is much more enjoyable
A board with a focus on winning trophies don't do the latter.
I couldn't agree more.
Good post.
The notion OgS needs to squander more £100s millions to exhibit a playing style just isn’t a reliable assumption.
We literally can’t play a high line because of our captain & our RB isn’t exactly proficient on the ball - we could sign Rio v2 - 2/4ths of the Defence don’t compliment a progressive playing style. I actually feel for Luke Shaw of late; he’s far & away our best defender.
Ok, how about this;
Games where a team has scored 3+ goals:
Man Utd:9
Liverpool: 7
Man City: 6
Does this look better?
Why only for ManUtd, take out 2 high scoring games for all teams.
| Total Goals | Top 2 scoring games | Total goals - 2 games | |
| ManUtd | 49 | 15 | 34 |
| Liverpool | 44 | 11 | 33 |
| City | 43 | 10 | 33 |
| Leicester | 39 | 9 | 30 |
| Chelsea | 38 | 8 | 30 |
Comparing point hauls in these covid seasons is a bit pointless (sorry). But our league position says were improved as we have improved our standing to pretty much everyone compared to last year
And where do you get this from that Ole is getting a free pass? Moyes got sacked because he took the champions to 7th, LvG got sacked because he missed out on CL in his second season while playing shite football and Jose got sacked because he lost the plot completely. Ole has to keep improving us, everyone expects that
Covid has postponed the rebuild for obvious reasons, but this January another two of the deadwood wad shipped out and i expect the last ones to go this summer.
And the fact that his critics start sharpening their knives after Everton, a game we completely dominated and got undone by obvious feck ups from the players says a lot really
If people want to use this ridiculous "yeah 15 of the goals came in 2 games" excuse then they should also use the same excuse for goals conceded, we conceded 9 goals in 2 games or 12 in 3, if you take out that then we are among the best defense in the league. But then same should be done for all clubs.
Anyways I dont see the point in doing all that. We have scored 3+ goals more than any club this season, that itself shows how good our attack is or at least how well we attacked this season.
Anyways I dont see the point in doing all that. We have scored 3+ goals more than any club this season, that itself shows how good our attack is or at least how well we attacked this season.
What are you "jumping on" exactly?
Your original point was making direct comparisons to Pep and Klopp which I and others addressed. Then when you realized you needed to "jump" to another manager example, I addressed that seperately.
No one is changing their point, we are just addressing yours as you keep trying to change managers in your comparison.
As for your "good managers get teams over the line" point, that is categorically bullshit because Jose got dumped out of an easy Champions League group stage (far, far easier than Ole's this round) to the side that beat Ole in 90 minutes of the Europa League Semi final.
Whats more, we deserved to get dicked on in Jose's exit and we were actually unfortunate in the Europa Cup meeting (this coming from someone who was a believer in what Jose was doing at the time). Oh, and the "get teams over the line" example doesn't suit when you pick a campaign where the manager couldn't even get his team to top 4
I've doubted Ole a lot and I Still do, but your blind hatrid and silly logic is what makes other fans bucket me as "Ole haters", so please stop being so careless.
Last season defense our defense was praised and some posters thought it was due to Ole's recruitment of Maguire and AWB. This year the same defense is struggling badly. Last season our attackers were considered to be poor, yet this season we are the most prolific team in the league. What it is painfully obvious is that we concede less goals when we over-commit to defend. I do not think that buying Maguie for huge amount of money and making him a captain was a very good decision, nor do I believe that AWB is a very nice piece of business either. James is basically a nobody in our team, Ighalo was meh as well, VdB is yet to show something. Bruno has been fantastic. So, all in all, I find Ole's transfers to be okay. I doubt that Aguero and KDB will be that much absent next season, and VVD is likely to be back as well. So, taking into account the circumstances, I do believe that this season we do need to be much closer.
Do you realise that, going by your 'playing style/tactician' method of judging a manager, that Ferguson wasn't ever world class?
Great post, we have far to many blinkers fans on here that think otherwise.
This thread and generally the whole football forum has been a trainwreck. I don’t know if the lockdowns, covid fears or just coming of age of very spoiled generation are to blame.. But surely this has to stop at some point.
Many people are so damn reactive, struggling hard to look past the latest game or past their own conclusions, it’s laughable.
Those people are silent after we win or are in a run of good form. They suddenly pop in this thread the second something goes wrong.
It literally looks like this - we beat Liverpool and knock them out, some people are silent.
We draw against Arsenal, same people swarm the place with “Sack Ole, he’s not good enough”.
Seriously some of you lot have become the very thing that we used to mock in the scousers fan base for years.
It’s a freaking MANAGER thread. All general conclusions and judgements should be made at the end of the season. Maybe a few observations every month or so. But this thread going apeshit after every game is absurd.
Many people are so damn reactive, struggling hard to look past the latest game or past their own conclusions, it’s laughable.
Those people are silent after we win or are in a run of good form. They suddenly pop in this thread the second something goes wrong.
It literally looks like this - we beat Liverpool and knock them out, some people are silent.
We draw against Arsenal, same people swarm the place with “Sack Ole, he’s not good enough”.
Seriously some of you lot have become the very thing that we used to mock in the scousers fan base for years.
It’s a freaking MANAGER thread. All general conclusions and judgements should be made at the end of the season. Maybe a few observations every month or so. But this thread going apeshit after every game is absurd.
What are you "jumping on" exactly?
Your original point was making direct comparisons to Pep and Klopp which I and others addressed. Then when you realized you needed to "jump" to another manager example, I addressed that seperately.
No one is changing their point, we are just addressing yours as you keep trying to change managers in your comparison.
As for your "good managers get teams over the line" point, that is categorically bullshit because Jose got dumped out of an easy Champions League group stage (far, far easier than Ole's this round) to the side that beat Ole in 90 minutes of the Europa League Semi final.
Whats more, we deserved to get dicked on in Jose's exit and we were actually unfortunate in the Europa Cup meeting (this coming from someone who was a believer in what Jose was doing at the time). Oh, and the "get teams over the line" example doesn't suit when you pick a campaign where the manager couldn't even get his team to top 4
I've doubted Ole a lot and I Still do, but your blind hatrid and silly logic is what makes other fans bucket me as "Ole haters", so please stop being so careless.
You’ll have to guide me through this one. So someone mentioned that Pep had a team of champions which meant he needed less time to make them champions again. That was the point.
I addressed you addressing me on that point saying I believe it’s rubbish but for argument sake..... Ole took over a team of Europa league and I’ll add league cup Champions. But still hasn’t managed to take us back there. You bless your cotton socks tried to disprove me.. which I came back and said what’s the point? It was never intended to be a serious point... however in context to the Pep point it’s very true. Some bright spark then decided to bring up that team that won the Europa league.. highlighting ‘6’ players that are still here. I then asked him to do that for Pep’s first title winning team. Crickets...... why because it’s a stupid argument.
But okay the good managers get teams over the line point. Remind me what group Jose failed to get us out of? Like why are you even arguing with me when you can’t even get your facts right. This is why you’re not understanding my points. Take the who do you think I am out of my posts (The Ole hater) and just read what I’m actually saying. It’s less offensive.
Also I’m not responsible for you. So whatever you get called is based on your posts
Im just being logical. I’m telling you we are currently top goal scorers in the league. Some further down to this post also showed stats that where we scored more goals in 1 game I.e 3 or more than anyone else.
So what I’m saying is does a better striker mean instead of 9-0 against Southampton the game ends up 11-0. It’s not logical
. What will happen is they will just soak up the majority of the goals their conversion rate demands the service.But to make my point more simple. If we had CR7.. we might have an extra 4 goals this season but all the goals Bruno got would no be CR7 goals. First of all Bruno wouldn’t be taking the pens or free kicks and opportunities trying to generate chances for the team would now be directed to creating chances for Ronaldo.
Look at our strikers goal returns last season are you telling me if we had Haaland they’d still have that return but on top of that an extra 25 goals from Haaland? Do you get what I’m saying now?
OK, I'll address it in bits. For the above, I said Pep inherited a team that had already won the league. So pointing to how quick Pep won the league has no legs when comparing to Ole, because he inherited a side that finished 20 points behind the league champions.
He lost to the same side your "manager that gets teams over the line" managed to feck up to in the Champions League before being dumped out the group, so your point disappears there.
I'm not sure what you're on about here - but I'll tell you that I never once mentioned the Europa Cup until you quoted me talking about it. So no, you didn't address me on anything, you just changed the goal sticks when I quoted you. What other people said is another matter.
Nothing you said is true. You tried to draw parallels with a manager who spent a ton more money, already inherited a title winning squad and then tried to make a case for Ole to be expected to achieve the same. It's bizarre and just outright silly.
Is this a real question? Is this a real post? I'm confused if it's a parody. To entertain the bold bit, how about being dumped from a straight forward easy enough group in Champions League? Or failing to win the dressing room, or failing to get top 4 after bringing in star players into the team? Pick any oneBut okay the good managers get teams over the line point. Remind me what group Jose failed to get us out of? Like why are you even arguing with me when you can’t even get your facts right. This is why you’re not understanding my points. Take the who do you think I am out of my posts (The Ole hater) and just read what I’m actually saying. It’s less offensive.
Also I’m not responsible for you. So whatever you get called is based on your posts
Do me a favour first. That post where you highlighted our Europa league team.. Do that for the City team that won the title Before Pep and circle the players that won the title with Pep.
On your style point. We try to play out from the back. So do you believe our defenders are good enough to do this and if you don’t tell me which players can’t. You said we need a CDM.. again from our squad tell me which players can’t play CDM and why?
OK, I'll address it in bits. For the above, I said Pep inherited a team that had already won the league. So pointing to how quick Pep won the league has no legs when comparing to Ole, because he inherited a side that finished 20 points behind the league champions.
He lost to the same side your "manager that gets teams over the line" managed to feck up to in the Champions League before being dumped out the group, so your point disappears there.
I'm not sure what you're on about here - but I'll tell you that I never once mentioned the Europa Cup until you quoted me talking about it. So no, you didn't address me on anything, you just changed the goal sticks when I quoted you. What other people said is another matter.
Nothing you said is true. You tried to draw parallels with a manager who spent a ton more money, already inherited a title winning squad and then tried to make a case for Ole to be expected to achieve the same. It's bizarre and just outright silly.
Is this a real question? Is this a real post? I'm confused if it's a parody. To entertain the bold bit, how about being dumped from a straight forward easy enough group in Champions League? Or failing to win the dressing room, or failing to get top 4 after bringing in star players into the team? Pick any one
Thanks but again you are arguing with your made up points. I don’t really care how long it took him. The point was which you obviously back is that Pep had champions. Ole has Europa league and league cup champions..Therefore why can’t he get us a league cup after two attempts or a Europa league at 1 attempt but hey he’s got another go? That was my point.. added on top of that spending more money than the team that knocked us out
The Champions League point.
Now take a deep breath..... What group stage did Jose fail to get Manchester United out of????????
Utter rubbish.
Every single one of Citys central defenders is better than ours except Maguire (arguably even that's pushing it).
City have double the amount of RBs.
City have world class RWs that are on the bench because of Foden in the last game. We have Greenwood who isnt a RW to many.
What about fernandinho and Rodri? Who di we have as pure CDM? Matic
They have Bernardo silva on the bench for creativity alongside others like KDb and Foden. We arguably only have Bruno as a pure creative CAM.
Gabriel Jesus to many is on a similar level atleast or better to Martial after judging Martial's thread about him being a more Arsenal player and not even good enough for a 2nd striker role for teams fighting for the Pl.
What about de gea mate? We have opposition surrounding de gea with 6 players during corners - since he doesnt come out to play the ball, they cover him from making a damn reflex save.
Why do you think we have such a simple problem that can be sorted out by the Manager? This shit cant be made because it's the left overs from previous managers most of the time that Ole has done well to get a result out from.
We have significant gaps in our system because for most of the time - we didnt have a system that was cohesive at United from top to bottom.
The moment we get something like that building up the "fans" start crying because we dont win a title by the 2nd season.
Ew.
Was you bantering? I can’t tell
I don’t think so. We just need a manager who knows how to build a team but also knows how to identify a player like a scout. Might sound simple but it’s not. LVG knew how to build a team he just didn’t know the market. Jose knows the market but the players he likes aren’t Man Utd players. Ole knows the players he just didn’t know how to build a team. What Ole really required was experience above him. He thought he had that in Mike Phelan.. but Phelan doesn’t know how to coach.. which is why non of the players we brought fit the actual original style we was trying to play.
Have you ever thought of applying context to various situations? You can win a KO competition by having a bit of luck - face easy opponents and get over the line. Winning the league - you can't skip games against tougher opponents.
This was our route in the LC win: Northampton, City, WHU, Hull and Southampton - 1 tricky game in the entire route. (And no, the Southampton under Puel were average at best)
This was our route in the EL win: GS (where we finished 2nd btw), St Etienne, Rostov, Andelecht, Celta and Ajax. This is a piss easy route
Our CL group in 17-18: Benfica, Basel and Moscow. We went out to the 1st decent side we played.
Now compare that to our route in all competitions, and you'd get the difference.
In CL, we weren't ever the favourites. This was a season where we wanted to gauge how up we are in the European elite. As it turns out, not surprisingly, we are worse than PSG and Leipzig - two sides who were semi-finalists in CL the season before.
I honestly can’t see why Old is being blamed here. Let’s look at the situation clearly, Ole has cleared our squad out of overrated players that don’t want to play for the club, Lukaku, Sanchez, players past their best or not good enough Feilaini, Smalling, Pereira, Lingard. He’s replaced with quality, Cavani, Bruno.
He’s got Shaw back to his best, brought in youngsters with amazing potential (Greenwood), brought in a young raw right back who divides opinion as he’s one of the best tacklers in the league but still young and makes mistakes, paid too much for Maguire.
We have scored the most goals in the league at 49.
We have possibly leapfrogged an injury hit Liverpool who have been one of the best teams in the world for the last two years, we are only 4 points behind a city team who have a world class proven manager and unlimited funds.
To put this in context we finished 33 points off top last season, City who finished 15 points ahead of us spent £137million on 3 players, Torres, Ake and Diaz, we spent £35m on Van De Beek, 0 on Cavani, 13.5 on a back up left back Telles and in this window 18-38 million on a teen with potential on the right wing. Has Ole done well? Absolutely, if we get a close second we’ve made massive progress and no one would have predicted we’d even be in it after our poor start.
This city team aren’t some average team they’ve comfortably with some lucky refereeing won 10 in a row. If we run them I’ll be over the moon and if we win it then give Ole a new contract.
He’s got Shaw back to his best, brought in youngsters with amazing potential (Greenwood), brought in a young raw right back who divides opinion as he’s one of the best tacklers in the league but still young and makes mistakes, paid too much for Maguire.
We have scored the most goals in the league at 49.
We have possibly leapfrogged an injury hit Liverpool who have been one of the best teams in the world for the last two years, we are only 4 points behind a city team who have a world class proven manager and unlimited funds.
To put this in context we finished 33 points off top last season, City who finished 15 points ahead of us spent £137million on 3 players, Torres, Ake and Diaz, we spent £35m on Van De Beek, 0 on Cavani, 13.5 on a back up left back Telles and in this window 18-38 million on a teen with potential on the right wing. Has Ole done well? Absolutely, if we get a close second we’ve made massive progress and no one would have predicted we’d even be in it after our poor start.
This city team aren’t some average team they’ve comfortably with some lucky refereeing won 10 in a row. If we run them I’ll be over the moon and if we win it then give Ole a new contract.
It's just daft, no other word for it, to blindly compare cup runs across seasons. Our run in the FA Cup this season is already magnitutes harder than when Van Gaal went all the way because we've already played Liverpool and have West Ham tonight, whilst Van Gaal had feck all until he got to Palace at Wembley.
Similarly Mourinho had feck all until he faced Ajax, which was still a weaker side than the Sevilla team Ole had last year. So stop trying to arbitrarily compare across seasons. The only way cup runs are comparable if the same manager played the exact same teams, which they fecking didn't. And the only way you can reasonably expect Ole to win the league is if 1) he had the same money as Pep and 2) inherited a squad capable of better domestic consistence - neither of which are true.
Apologies, I meant round of 16*, not that it takes anything away from the overarching point, which can be explained here: your gripe with Ole not winning the Europa Cup is fine, but the manager who lost to the same club in the round of 16 of the CL is fine? Serious mental gymnastics.
Now your turn to take a deep breath and tell me, how is it that Ole didn't get us over the line against Sevilla but Jose the "manager who gets it over the line" failed in the round of 16 against the same fecking club?
Who the feck are you telling me to do something
Please stick with the discussion that you replied and answer my questions because they are relevant, so let me ask the questions again:So why didn’t Pep win or challenge the league in 2016/2017 when there was no Mendy and Delph was around? Even with Kompany in his defense, why did he still need 290m investment on just defense before he won his first league title?
Maguire and Lindelof can play from the back.
I haven’t mention CDM for like 8 posts and now you want to bring it to the table because you want to change the subject and hide from the fact that Pep challenged/won the first league after spending 290m on defense and Klopp won the league after spending 200m on defense.
All I have been saying is minimum CB & GK, I didn’t mention the CDM as part of the minimum.
McTominay is box to box. Pogba & Donny are not CDM and Fred is CM not CDM. Matic is the only CDM we got and needs to be replaced.
What? Klopp 8th, 4th, 4th, 2nd, 1st.
If Ole performed like that 75% would have wanted him out after his second 4th place finish.
And they also would have wanted this manager sacked 2-3 years into his reign.
Alex Ferguson
Finished: 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th
FACT:
After 2 years and 2 months of being a manager NO MANAGER in our 140-year history has been more progressive in the league than Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
OMG. I don’t have a problem with his cup run. I was making a fair equivalent comparisons. I’ve literally said I don’t care twice now
I’m just waiting for someone to explain why Pep can be okay to win in a league in a short space or time because he took over Champions with zero context behind the quote. But yet I can give an equivalent alternative to how Ole fails to do the same with limited context. But I end up with all the context for one and zero context for the. Other.
I’ll repeat both statements are utter rubbish.
lets move on thenOMG. I don’t have a problem with his cup run. I was making a fair equivalent comparisons. I’ve literally said I don’t care twice now
He spent a truck load of cash more, and he inherited a squad of title winning Champions. Winning a team that won the Europa Cup doesn't mean you can win the Europa Cup again with a different manager because it's a fecking tournament.
Do I need to explain how cup runs can differ year on year, with one year being a tremendously hard run of games to play compared to another?
A league however is the same fixtures from one year to the next. So Pep, 1) inherited a team that already had domestic consistency and 2) added shit loads more money to it in the same space of time Ole has been here.
So there is your context.
Who the feck are you telling me to do something
So why didn’t Pep win or challenge the league in 2016/2017 when there was no Mendy and Delph was around? Even with Kompany in his defense, why did he still need 290m investment on just defense before he won his first league title?
Maguire and Lindelof can play from the back.
I haven’t mention CDM for like 8 posts and now you want to bring it to the table because you want to change the subject and hide from the fact that Pep challenged/won the first league after spending 290m on defense and Klopp won the league after spending 200m on defense.
All I have been saying is minimum CB & GK, I didn’t mention the CDM as part of the minimum.
McTominay is box to box. Pogba & Donny are not CDM and Fred is CM not CDM. Matic is the only CDM we got and needs to be replaced.
I said why do we need a complete team to win or challenge for a league and highlighted Pep won a league with no left back.
You said he couldn’t compete or even come close until he signed Mendy and Danillo.
I said he played with Fabian Delph
You said no he never.
We then came to the conclusion this was facts.
You then said well he still needed the rest.
Which gets us back to the start. Where...
I said Ole has signed 3 out of 4 defenders and brought back a keeper he felt was too good to sell. Why can’t he compete?
To which your original point which you highlighted above was we need another CB and GK. To which I’m yet to get an answer on. Why could Pep do it with John Stones, Kyle Walker and Ederson. 3 players out of 5. But Ole needs 5/5?
But on a side note you did make a good point about us only have 6 players from that Europa league team. I just wanted to know how many players did Pep have from the previous title winning City team.
FFS;
Man City had literally been planning for Guardiola to come in... they were working up to it for years.... He came into a club fixed in his football philosophy(thanks to his best mate being Sporting Director for eight years prior).
Ole came into a club that was heading in the wrong direction after multiple errors post Ferguson and is picking up a club from the floor to try to get them competing again in the future. He literally had to tear the squad apart and build a new one... which he is doing brilliantly (just look at the academy players Ole has brought in, in anticipation of us challenging down the road.)
Comparing Pep's start against Ole's is a fool's argument. It's redundant. It doesn't make sense. Why are you even getting involved with this Mainaldo fella? it's clear ha hasn't got a clue.
Wanna compare Ole's start to anyone's?
Compare it to Alex Ferguson's start at Man United. Or Jurgen Klopp's at Liverpool.
Ole's job is a revamp of a sleeping giant... not a continuity project like Pep's is and continues to be.
Okay well whilst you’re here on this point too. How many Champions did Pep have in his new title winning team?
Funny you mention that about a tournament yet Sevilla always get props for winning that same tournament because as a club they’ve won it so many times and know what it takes.
You literally said it was a hard game! Why was it a hard game? Did they have better players than us?
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