Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Yes, they lost those games and we were one of those teams who beat them just a month or so ago. I'm not sure what the point is that you're arguing here. Not a single team has absolutely battered them and they have been unlucky not to get more from some of the games I've seen them in. The Leicester and Arsenal games are a perfect example of this - and the Liverpool game too. So, when you say that everyone has beat the breaks off them, that just isn't true.

In the first 5-10 games of the season they have been quite unlucky, and their underlying metrics showed that. They aren't the worst team in the league (that dubious honour is West Brom's).

We played very poorly yesterday and deserved to lose, but considering the run of form we've been on, one loss isn't the end of the world. There will be other losses too this season, as its par for the course when you have a team like ours that is still being moulded. Having every defeat be somehow a damning indictment of the manager and the players is just wrong. The time to evaluate is when the season is over. Take stock of what's happened and decide from there. And for me, as long as there's progress, then he deserves to see out the process. Lest we forget, people were saying we wouldn't be making Top 4 as late as December. I've also been consistent in my belief that the aim for us is still top 4, irrespective of what the table is currently showing because this team is still a work in progress.

Well it is true that everyone bar 3 teams has beaten them this season. We somehow contrived to be the 4th.

My point is really about creating a better image for the future. I agree this season we're still in a good position and are probably exceeding expectations slightly for the season, no doubt about that.

But I'm thinking a few years ahead. If we want to mould ourselves into a team who wants to be taken seriously about challenging for the league, we have to cut out these banter-worthy results. We need teams to have a bit of a fear of us before a ball is even kicked because it is crucial to winning the league. Right now, I don't smell fear in any opponent we play, no matter how good our form is when we play them.

The opponents know, just like us fans, a monumental feck-up is on the cards at any time. It's the modern United way.
 
Southampton have been struggling of late and I can't see how Leicester are clearly better coached than us. I do think Ole can reach a higher level with the investment in the areas we need. These things do not happen overnight. Another manager, means going back to square one again. Who is the next gen manager you would appoint? Everyone pipes up and wants to get rid of Ole yet doesn't know who they wish to appoint?

We've had 1 defeat since November and yes it was a shite result and performance but god the overreaction on here is just crazy.

Like saying I'll be a better driver if you put me in a Ferrari. I'll go faster maybe, but a better car doesn't make me a better driver.

This team is good enough to compete this season. Liverpool are poor and others drop points as regularly as we do.[/QUOTE]
 
I love how this thread blows up every time we fail to win a game.

We were shit yesterday and deserved to lose, but the overreaction here is on another level.

"Poor in-game management" - Obviously he made a mistake by subbing off Greenwood instead of Martial, but look at the games before this. 7 comeback wins this season - if anything, that points out that he is really good in making changes.

Then there's this argument that we lost to a poor team - Ofcourse, but this is football, more often than not, every season you see games where a team set for relegation beats/draws against top of the table sides - It has happened in the past and will continue happening in the future. It's about how we recover from this setback that will define the job Ole has done.

And lastly, "title challenge in tatters" - The most ridiculous of arguments. 2 months ago (let alone start of the season), if someone told me we'd be 2nd in the league 1 point (potentially 4) behind City after 20 games, I'd have bitten their hand off. We weren't supposed to be in this position as we're still a 'work in progress' team. The fact that we're here speaks volumes of the work Ole and the players have done. Let's not change the expectations every two weeks based on the situation as we'd be meeting expectations in best case scenario and underperforming in the worst case scenario.
To be fair I am not sure we had a title challenge. City have gathered momentum and due to their squad do not suffer the same when changes need to be made. That was always going to be the case. What we need to do is get back on track quickly and keep in touching distance. If we make it a close call it makes us an attractive proposition in the summer. Other teams are getting wary of us that most times we are not beaten until the final whistle, but like United of old, City intimidate teams rightly or wrongly.
 
He was the best manager since sliced bread at 8pm yesterday, one game doesn't change much. All that counts is where we are in May.
 
To be fair I am not sure we had a title challenge. City have gathered momentum and due to their squad do not suffer the same when changes need to be made. That was always going to be the case. What we need to do is get back on track quickly and keep in touching distance. If we make it a close call it makes us an attractive proposition in the summer. Other teams are getting wary of us that most times we are not beaten until the final whistle, but like United of old, City intimidate teams rightly or wrongly.
If we challenge for the title, it'd be a bonus. But reading through some of the posts, it seems people expected us to win the title.
 
If we challenge for the title, it'd be a bonus. But reading through some of the posts, it seems people expected us to win the title.
It's how United fans are, me included at times. It is feast or famine. Going to sweep all before us or it the end of the world.
 
Ole didnt do anything wrong, its not his fault, those game changing subs at 88th min werent his calls either, he had his hands tied.
 
If we challenge for the title, it'd be a bonus. But reading through some of the posts, it seems people expected us to win the title.
There could be exceptions but majority of the fans are happy with a top 2/3. Feck, give me top 4 now and I will snap your hands.
 
Like saying I'll be a better driver if you put me in a Ferrari. I'll go faster maybe, but a better car doesn't make me a better driver.

Or like saying you want me to win a race with Ferraris but I have a Mercedes C class.
 
Like saying I'll be a better driver if you put me in a Ferrari. I'll go faster maybe, but a better car doesn't make me a better driver.

This team is good enough to compete this season. Liverpool are poor and others drop points as regularly as we do.
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And they are competing, aren't they. What else do you want, a 20 point lead. People act as if City are a crap side. They are still the best side who again this summer spent well over 100m to fix their defense alone. People may not like to hear this but we still are not there yet and need more investment. You can have a new manager and there is no guarantee he will topple this city side. There is a reason why most of the pundits and experts still think City are the side to beat.
 
There could be exceptions but majority of the fans are happy with a top 2/3. Feck, give me top 4 now and I will snap your hands.
Go back a few pages, and people are literally bashing everyone at the club because it put a dent to title challenge. It did put a dent to it, and I'm not denying that, but we are at a place no one expected us to be, so look at the bigger picture, and that is that more likely than not, we can look at this season where progress was made
 
Winning the tactical battle? Give over. They stuck 10 men behind the ball and got two lucky goals. We didn’t do enough to win the game but let’s not exaggerate.

You’re off your tits mate, they did a lot more than “stick 10 behind the ball”.

As for “lucky goals”, what the feck was lucky about the first one? The second one was such poor defending we were basically begging them to score.
 
Ok I'm confused, you said Southampton were better coached than us and they are 11th in the table, now you are saying they should be lower with their squad. Your points don't make any sense and no they shouldn't be lower as they have a decent team compared to the teams below them.

I do think they're better coached, being better coached doesn't necessarily mean they perform better than us or they get better results than us. The way I measure coaching, I may be wrong here but it's the way I think it should be measured, is which football you play and which results you get according to the quality of your squad. They being 11th or 8th or 15th doesn't change that.

If you are comparing the last 18 months, numerous points tables have us near the top since the beginning of last year so again makes no sense. And no, I wouldn't swap the whole Leicester for ours.
Beggining of last year is not 18 months, thats 12 months. I'm quoting 18 months since it's last season and this one until today, based on that we have 5 more points than Leicester and were equal in goal difference. Do you think the difference in quality between our squads is reflected in those results? Or has Leicester overperformed to what it should be expected from them?

Of course you wouldn't swap squads, ours is way better then theirs. Still they get almost even results than us in the last 18 months, so its either them performing better than they should which I attribute to good coaching or we have underperformed which would be attributed to coaching as well.

In the 2 years, we have shown improvement, we are now competing for the title and we should certainly keep competing this year and next year and onwards as well.

I agree we have shown improvement, my claim is that we still have to improve a lot more and I dont think Ole can take us that far.

To be fair we are competing right now, we will almost certainly not win it, but competing at this stage is more than we have done in the last years. Still I feel this is because of the strange season, not only us but a bunch of other clubs that werent in the race are suddenly in it. The point gap between Bayern and the rest has shortened, same in Ligue 1 with PSG. Serie A has Milan as a leader and Juve far from the top to give some examples. I think this season is an anomally in europe. Most likely next season we will be back to normal and we'll see the same old City and Liverpool making 90+points.

I don't feel confident at all nor I think it's a given that next year we'll be challenging again. In fact I think this season is our opportunity and if we don't take it it may be a long time after we get another one.

Why do I feel this way? Because even after good results I'm not convinced with the performances. I think we have got more points than we deserve performance-wise and it will eventually catch up to us. That doesn't mean we have performed badly, it means we haven't performed good enough so we can comfortably say that we are challenging this year and will be in the next years.


The basis of the squad is good enough for that with improvements in certain areas required. I don't see how you can say the path for him is ending when he is still improving the squad so you should at least see how we fair next season with hopefully those weak areas improved.

I agree the squad needs to be strengthened, we still have holes in the squad. But I dont think thats the only problem we face. We still have the same weaknesses we used to have. The main ones in my opinion is that we are weak on set pieces and we don't have clear attacking patterns.

Both of those problems I think must be solved with coaching more than with bringing more/better players. Ole brought Bruno, VDB, Cavani and James for the offense and while Bruno have been a massive success it doesn't change the fact that we are still without a clear attacking patterns. Even a medium/poor squad can develop clear attacking patterns, we see it with Southampton and Leeds for example. Thats due to coaching not quality in the squad, of course the level in which you perform those patterns is up to the players but the patterns themselves are from the coach.

In defense he brought AWB and Maguire, and while we are arguably more solid in defense we are still weak on set pieces. Again I dont think bringing better defenders will automatically solve this. This is a coaching problem.

As I've said multiple times here we are facing special managers in Pep and Klopp, one which also happens to have a better squad. So we need a special manager ourselves to level the ground. I don't think Ole is special, but that doesn't mean he is a PE teacher that can't do anything right. Of course he could improve us further with better players, but that's not the question. The question is can he improve us enough so we can actually beat City and Liverpool in the league and challenge in the UCL?
 
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Like saying I'll be a better driver if you put me in a Ferrari. I'll go faster maybe, but a better car doesn't make me a better driver.

This team is good enough to compete this season. Liverpool are poor and others drop points as regularly as we do.
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Why do you think that this is the case? This squad and the core of it is essentially comprised of players who weren't even being played by the previous manager. We have accrued 66 points in both of the last two seasons and while we have improved, we have only added 4 new players into the starting XI with at least 3, and arguably 4 large gaping holes in the first team still being unfilled.

We are doing well and have been doing well, but the target is still Top 4 for us this season. We haven't reached two successive top 4 finishes once post-SAF and doing so would be a good marker of progress. If by the end of next season we're still in a similar position and not showing progress then questions can rightly be asked, but right now there is nothing to suggest that the driver of the Audi that we currently have wouldn't be able to thrive further and do even better with a Ferrari.
 
Hard to judge without knowing how he speaks in the dressing room. But the team came out after the break playing the exact same „style“. Nothing really changed. To say „it wasnt to be“ is too easy for me and hopefully only a thing to say to the press. Was hoping for two subs at halftime and that the team is already waiting outside after a short and clear speech. The first 15 minutes of the second half have really been wasted.

Those late subs or a late reaction to change game plan in general and to break through a really defensive line are two things that are not improving yet.

Same thing with our defence.
Another goal conceded because a fullback was positioned too wide to get into a duel with someone who hits the target. This time it was Telles. Against Pool it was Shaw, Leipzig AWB and so on.

Frustrating to see those things over and over again.
 
You’re off your tits mate, they did a lot more than “stick 10 behind the ball”.

As for “lucky goals”, what the feck was lucky about the first one? The second one was such poor defending we were basically begging them to score.

No they didn't. They dug in, defended deep, smashed and grabbed a couple of cheap goals due to our team seemingly having zero concentration or graft. We were terrible last night, woeful.

I appreciate your tactical insight into Chris Wilder may be greater than mine, however, so feel free to enlighten me otherwise.
 
As long as this isn't the beginning of a run similar to before Bruno came in, we can still recover and have a good enough season. It does worry me that that's our 4th loss at home this season. Palace, Spurs, Arsenal and Sheffield. There's still something really off about how we set up to play at home in comparison to away.

Recover? That is a bit extreme, we are still 2nd at present and were never going to win the title anyway.
 
No they didn't. They dug in, defended deep, smashed and grabbed a couple of cheap goals due to our team seemingly having zero concentration or graft. We were terrible last night, woeful.

I appreciate your tactical insight into Chris Wilder may be greater than mine, however, so feel free to enlighten me otherwise.

I think people use the word tactical masterclass our outclassed too quickly.

There is nothing different in the SU performance that is any different to what they would do against any other team.

The difference is that the team they came against was complacent and unprofessional. They played a 38 yr old CB who never had to move more than 4 yards all game.

There was no tactical battle. It was plain and simple piss poor performance. A tactical outclass is when a team plays their football and the opponent finds new ways of stopping the team.
 


Think a lot on here need to listen to this and then judge based on this.
 
I think people use the word tactical masterclass our outclassed too quickly.

There is nothing different in the SU performance that is any different to what they would do against any other team.

The difference is that the team they came against was complacent and unprofessional. They played a 38 yr old CB who never had to move more than 4 yards all game.

There was no tactical battle. It was plain and simple piss poor performance. A tactical outclass is when a team plays their football and the opponent finds new ways of stopping the team.

It’s more convenient to point the finger at the guy on the sidelines than at the players on the pitch struggling to kick a ball properly.
 
It’s more convenient to point the finger at the guy on the sidelines than at the players on the pitch struggling to kick a ball properly.

I am happy to point the fingers at Ole but I do not feel yesterday you can solely point fingers at him.

There were people on here saying, our post lockdown form was brilliant yet this season we have only played that team x times this season in reference to Matic, Pogba, MMM, Bruno.

Alot of people in here were questioning McFred. Matic had a shocker yesterday, McTominay or Fred would have done a better job.

It is obvious that Matic Pogba midfield is too slow and open, we play crap football. MMM is good when they are on form but none of them can retain possession, which is why we struggle to get out. Its not Ole's fault Martial loses the ball and doesnt track back.
 
This is just my two cents and is not designed to attack those in the 'Ole-In' camp or the 'Ole-Out' camp. I just find the black and white nature of people’s opinions about Ole as a manager both end up failing to give a proper assessment of him.

Ole's tactics against other 'elite' managers (Pep, Klopp, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Tuchel etc.) has been brilliant.
Ole’s man-management is brilliant.
The way he handles interviews is brilliant.
The culture he’s trying to reinstate at the club has been refreshing and much-needed.
The systematic culling of an over-bloated squad has been spot on with I'd imagine 99% of fans agreeing with the players Ole has got rid of/wants to get rid of (Herrera the only possible exception).
His signings have been mostly good (despite seriously overpaying in some cases) but everyone can see a consistent logic behind them; a logic that has not existed since 2013.

And he’s just such a likeable person to have in charge of your team - we’ve come so far since the darkest days under Mourinho. Ole reflects the team in many ways; a work in progress that deserves, and frankly has earned, the time and resources to allow this progress to continue.

That, however, comes with two major caveats.

1. His in-game management - consistently his weakest attribute with subs coming far too late in the game and often the wrong players coming on/off. An element of unjustified favouritism also appears to be at work here. I don't believe the cohort of assistants he has helps with this either - I get slight 'yes-men' vibes from the coaching staff.

Bringing Cavani on last night was the correct decision. Keeping Martial on the pitch last night at the expensive of Greenwood was so incorrect it was genuinely mind-boggling. And not only did it involve leaving a useless Martial on the pitch, Ole moved Rashford onto the RW to do this.

2. The reliance on individual moments of brilliance to win matches against low-block defences

Our performances are night and day when Bruno fails to perform. Rashford has filled the void on occasion, as has Pogba in the last month, but when none of those 3 play well we are left with a performance like last night. It's a criticism that definitely gets overstated by people who dislike Ole (the 'no patterns of play' argument) given we've shown improvement in the speed we move the ball and the link up play (particularly down the left-hand side) but it remains a valid one. We need a more systematic approach to breaking teams down that won't let us counter-attack against them.

Saying that Number 2 is definitely still less of an issue for me than Number 1 as I think a proper RW will elevate our attacking capabilities to another level (similar to the transformation that happened by having a proper no.10 when Bruno arrived). The in-game management has to improve if we are going to progress.
 
Recover? That is a bit extreme, we are still 2nd at present and were never going to win the title anyway.

We're 2nd at present but a run of poor results could leave us outside the top four in a flash. Obviously by recover I mean pick ourselves up from what was ultimately a dreadful performance at home to the team at the bottom of the league.
 
He laid down the gauntlet to the whole squad after the Liverpool game where he was asked whether we've hit another level (or something similar) and he said asked me again on Wednesday night. Was he asked again? At least we know the answer. He sounded then like he was accutely aware of complacency creeping in and it did.

Seems everyone got on the hype train - what with Rio asking Pogba to win the league. Spurs did too, when they occupied first for all of two minutes.

City's to lose, though there'll be strange results throughout the season it's hard not to view them as favourites now. For us though, we need to stop conceding terrible goals and develop an attacking plan. Same as before I guess.
 


Think a lot on here need to listen to this and then judge based on this.


He’s Alex Ferguson. A one off. Sui generis. His glittering career and the factors that he thinks brought him success, are not relevant to assessing what is happening at United in 2021, and, the sooner we all come to terms with that, the better it will be for everyone’s sanity. This is not a dig at Ole, just recognition that Ferguson is no more a benchmark or guide for a normal manager than Shakespeare is for a writer.
 
And they are competing, aren't they. What else do you want, a 20 point lead. People act as if City are a crap side. They are still the best side who again this summer spent well over 100m to fix their defense alone. People may not like to hear this but we still are not there yet and need more investment. You can have a new manager and there is no guarantee he will topple this city side. There is a reason why most of the pundits and experts still think City are the side to beat.
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They weren't not long ago when they were dropping points. The pundits think/thought we were in the race too.
 


Think a lot on here need to listen to this and then judge based on this.


What I get from that is making sure it doesn’t happen again, the management fecked up the team selection big time in Germany and did the same again last night.
Learning from it which is what Ferguson is nudging on & is what I expect and last night we desperately needed big changes before the 55th minute.
He’s turned me round since Germany and I think overall the job he’s doing is good, but I can also say when he fecks up, that’s the weird thing with some of you lot, you talk like he’s Jesus Christ for feck sake.

Sometimes the players just let you down, no matter the manager, but you don’t respond to that by doing nothing significant about it and letting players have horror shows for 80 to 90 minutes. That’s what management is, otherwise we may as well just let Edward would buy a load of players together with the transfer board and send every manager fecking home & save money.
 
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Again he missed a chance to react on refs. He just says ref made a mistake and that is it.
He simply must react and make a rant about it

Yeah he will never come out and risk a touchline ban for comments like Fergie/Jose would
 
I am happy to point the fingers at Ole but I do not feel yesterday you can solely point fingers at him.

There were people on here saying, our post lockdown form was brilliant yet this season we have only played that team x times this season in reference to Matic, Pogba, MMM, Bruno.

Alot of people in here were questioning McFred. Matic had a shocker yesterday, McTominay or Fred would have done a better job.

It is obvious that Matic Pogba midfield is too slow and open, we play crap football. MMM is good when they are on form but none of them can retain possession, which is why we struggle to get out. Its not Ole's fault Martial loses the ball and doesnt track back.

If people think the team we put out last night were not capable of beating Sheffield United, then we’ve clearly been punching above our weight all this time and should be nowhere near the top of the table.
 
And they are competing, aren't they. What else do you want, a 20 point lead. People act as if City are a crap side. They are still the best side who again this summer spent well over 100m to fix their defense alone. People may not like to hear this but we still are not there yet and need more investment. You can have a new manager and there is no guarantee he will topple this city side. There is a reason why most of the pundits and experts still think City are the side to beat.

They weren't not long ago when they were dropping points. The pundits think/thought we were in the race too.
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Like saying I'll be a better driver if you put me in a Ferrari. I'll go faster maybe, but a better car doesn't make me a better driver.

This team is good enough to compete this season. Liverpool are poor and others drop points as regularly as we do.
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But my reply was to your above post. Don't you think we are not competing?
 
No they didn't. They dug in, defended deep, smashed and grabbed a couple of cheap goals due to our team seemingly having zero concentration or graft. We were terrible last night, woeful.

I appreciate your tactical insight into Chris Wilder may be greater than mine, however, so feel free to enlighten me otherwise.

Honestly how can someone watch last night and think all they did was sit back and dig in? the amount of times they pressed us out to our right back and then pressed us all the way back to our defenders, to just play the ball around & do the same again and again. This because we couldn’t find the space we desperately wanted to find. They pressed the right players out wide at the right time and pushed us back all night.

If you wanna believe all they did was sit back work hard and got lucky, fine by me, but you’re doing a real disservice to an excellent tactical away job against a good team.
Our response to that tactic was pathetic and I hope Ole, Phelan, Carrick and co. learn. They were stupid points to drop.
 
Honestly how can someone watch last night and think all they did was sit back and dig in? the amount of times they pressed us out to our right back and pushed then pressed us all the way back to our defenders, to just play the ball around & do the same again and again. This because we couldn’t find the space we desperately wanted to find. They pressed the right players out wide at the right time and pushed us back all night.

if you wanna believe all they did was sit back work hard and get lucky, fine by me, but you’re doing a real disservice to an excellent tactical away job against a good team.

Pretty vague insight there, @Regulus Arcturus Black. Try harder.
 
We're 2nd at present but a run of poor results could leave us outside the top four in a flash. Obviously by recover I mean pick ourselves up from what was ultimately a dreadful performance at home to the team at the bottom of the league.

So the same as most clubs in most leagues then?
 
If people think the team we put out last night were not capable of beating Sheffield United, then we’ve clearly been punching above our weight all this time and should be nowhere near the top of the table.
Course they should have been able to beat them. We just never, ever got going.
 
I was confident with the line up yesterday that we’d get a comfortable win. 2 games a week, forever, so we need to rotate and we all wanted to against Liverpool so he had to change players for last nights game. When we got the equaliser I was sure we’d go on to win. I do get people saying what can he do about poor defending but there does seem to be some coaching issues with our defence.
 
I seriously cannot get over how can a manager sit relaxed and not react at all while losing against such a team and having few players strolling around and not giving a feck like someone showed those videos of Martial and Rashford. That is absolutely unacceptable behaviour on the pitch and top managers like Fergie, Pep, Klopp, Mourinho, etc., would have them off at half time.

Ole? He keeps watching his tablet like nothing is happening. Why would players care then, what's their motivation?
 
This thread was eerily quiet after the Liverpool win and has jumped 8 pages overnight. We know who the disingenuous agenda posters now are, at least.

This team is still a work in progress and I've been consistent in that belief all the way through. It's why, while everyone else was crowing about a title charge, my main aim was still ensuring Top 4. We just aren't quite there yet as a team. We've improved a heck of a lot, but with the amount of holes we have in our team and squad, getting closer to the big 2 was always the aim, rather than toppling them. We will lose more games as the season goes on and it's up to the team and manager to learn from them. To their credit, they tend to do so more often than not.

The in-game management critique is also ringing a little hollow when you consider how many games we've fought back and won in. It doesn't happen by chance or accident. Yesterday was the first time where it didn't in almost two months (3 months if we're only counting the league) and for people to say that it's 'proof' of the in-game management being poor, is frankly ridiculous.

Take it you have noticed that we haven't produced any of those comebacks in a league game at home, yes I will grant you we did in the FA Cup against Liverpool on Sunday but we need to stop putting ourselves in this predicament in the first place because eventually it will backfire.

Completely agree with you about there still being some serious holes in this team but we know this board won't allow us to sort out even three of them in the summer (CB, CDM & RW) and of course we need a proper no 9 than is younger than Eddy as well
 
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