Yeah, let make our club some charity club and play U16 every game.
He is not afraid to lose. Otherwise he would play his first XI.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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He is not afraid to lose. Otherwise he would play his first XI.
We have 3 new starters under Ole. Bruno, Maguire and AWB. It is not a massive rebuild in terms of squad is it?
It is pretty normal to add some new players and replace a few old ones.
We aren’t a charity but yet Fletcher can get a coaching job. I beg to differ.
Fred, McT, Shaw, Lindelof weren't getting many games under Jose and Rashford/Martial were getting as many games as Lingard. I'm not really sure what your point about rebuilding is though.
Just that it should not be used as an excuse for poor results. Teams always rebuild and add new players.
Imo Ole got the line up pretty spot on. Watford was no joke. They're fighting for a PL slot next year.
Last time we "gave youth a chance" and played our youngsters we got thrashed 4-0 by some League One MK Dons if my memory serves me right.
But it wasnt just adding new players was it? Youre simplying something without taking into context where we were as a team and what weve had to add.
Looking at Joses last match (as an example) this was our lineup:
DDG
Darmian Bailly Lindelof Young
Dalot Herrera Matic Rashford
LIngard
Lukaku
From that, compared to our strongest team now, weve changed 3 at the back, all of our midfield, weve pushed Rashford further forward and and are starting Martial up top (who came on in that game with about 10-15 mins left)
And our main sub at the time was Fellaini.
This is a whole change in terms of playing style and personnel.
And to bring up the level of players who were there (pogba, martial and Shaw who the previous manager didnt fancy)
Considering we sign about 3 players max per window, (previous window had 5 but again it was 3 + 2), Ole has done an amazing job of somehow making us believe that we can go for the title into the new year.
Or as has been pointed out previously, this could be due to covid and covid bubbles making it more difficult to just bring up any youth not associated.
Or he wanted to give the second string players a chance to perform (but having seen them numerous times, doesnt think they are all that (which would be true) and had more 'senior' players on the bench incase anything happened)
Hes more than meeting the standards. BEfore the season started, and after the late late window we had (and lack of preseason) most expected us to just fight for top4, with the title being decided between Chelsea, City and Liverpool (with the latter two favourites)
If youre expecting 'big improvements' we are getting that through the seasons.
If youre talking about tangibles (like trophies) ill be honest, before this season I wanted us to get top4 again, get a style of playing that suits our players, and then in the next window make a few more purchases and sales to get a more balanced squad.
I will want more next season (provided we get signings to push for that)
Otherwise majority of the time the football is good (but can be frustrating). And were performing to the level we should be at (unless were now saying this is a stellar squad, and thus if 'we' want Ole out, then wemust say Ed and the Glazers have done a fantastic job in building a squad capable of competing for trophies, but we know that wont happen).
Cant have it both ways imo.
Don't post rubbish.
Depends what you are defining as loor results?
It’s nice to see the usual posters are still in here spouting absolute garbage. What joy they must have in life.
At last, some sense. Good post.
Fans need to gain some perspective, look at our league finishes over the last 7 years and compare with Ole. Yes, he can make mistakes, or decisions that some fans disagree with, but so would any other manager.
What's your big insight on Fletcher? Is he a bad coach? Did he do a terrible job with the U-16s?
Can't understand the negativity towards Ole. He's improved the results, the style and the club ethos since he took over. He's also restored a team spirit that had been obliterated by Mourinho.
We were the top team in 2020. I know it's not important in the grand scheme but it's a good indication of where we're going.
I actually avoided watching games under Mourinho. I've been a fan since 1993 and I didn't want to watch us play towards the end of his reign of terror. Under Ole I'm looking forward to games the way I did in the glory days. We can be frustrating at times but the good definitely outweighs the bad.
He's got the club looking to sign young hungry players which is the epitome of Manchester United.
People bashing him are either unrealistic in their expectations or are sour because they wrote him off previously and now the club improvement is making them look bad.
Thanks, I think theres too much game by game reaction in terms of the overall goal for United.
Losses can happen, But most of them can be explained (and not to just make excuses)
The Palace one we would now win (with the 'preseason' aspect added - same with some of Citys earlier games who went through the same thing)
Spurs were on top of us and we fell away, but that red card really stopped any chance of us getting back in.
The arsenal one we shouldnt have lost (but didnt deserve to win). But since then weve won nearly every single game, and fighting to get the wins in quite a few of them (that mentality to never give up being key)
The PSG one ... well you get the idea.
People need to review their 'what we expect from United this season' before the season started and compare it to where we are now.
Liverpool and City are ahead of us by a few years, so losing to them or finishing behind them is not the end of the world.
If we go into a United under Jose meltdown... well then yeah, thats different.
But at the same time there are weaknesses that need to be addressed but its a 'process'.
I’ll tell you as soon as you tell me your insight on Mengi and why he’s not ready for minutes in a rotated squad?
I have no opinions on Mengi at all and don't believe I've ever posted about him to don't give me that.
What's the problem with Fletcher?
I have watched Watford a lot, they are really poor this season and have sacked their manager because of it. Either way, they rotated a lot and didn't even play their best players. They're a Championship team! How did he get it spot on? We were lucky to get away with the win even. He just keeps playing James, no one understands why... exactly as he did with Pereira and he was proven wrong then and he will be again. Regarding MK Dons, once in a lifetime and I'm not saying that he should've played an Astana eleven.
Regarding covid bubble. Elanga, Fish, and Shoretire trained with the first team recently. Mengi is training with them permanently. If he wanted to involve youth players, he would. You guys haven't noticed the trends? Doesn't matter if it's covid or not, if it's a hard game or not. He doesn't play youth. Just look at Luton, Tranmere, Watford here and look at the lineups. Lingard, James, Maguire, Mata. His go-to guys.
He hasn't even been the best defender in the academy this season. He doesn't deserve to be a rotational option when we have defenders higher in the pecking order we are trying to play to fitness and match rhythm.
He played the youth a good bit last season in the early rounds of the domestic cups and Europa when he could afford to.
This was championship opposition and not lower league fodder, we needed to rest our main players and give minutes to our squad players who we will likely need to throw in before the end of the season. Judging by the performance last night many of them needed a competitive match.
He played Williams, Tuanzebe and GW as our youth and imo that's enough. Van Gaal thought he'd beat some League One team playing a large number of the U23/U18 and we got thrashed. There's some very big difference between professional football and the football those youngsters been playing. Win against a Championship team playing a large number of our U23/U18? well no it's not as easy as it sounds.
Very few of those U23/U18 would be recruited by a Championship team. Most of them would have to play in the lower leagues or eventually quit professional football.
This will be an endless debate because there is no concrete fact to support either my opinion or yours. I don't think I can change yours nor you can change mine. Let's agree to disagree then I think.
Do you know his qualities as a coach to already decide he is not good enough?
We have been one of the youngest teams last 3 years. Lot of young players have got chances and we have a good number of players in young age playing.
Some of you keep searching for something just so you can criticize Solskjaer.
That's not the same thing though. Greenwood is a generational talent that he couldn't ignore and he would have made it anyway. Williams he deserves credit for, although he doesn't really play him much. Yes, Ole played some youngsters last season but he didn't have the squad either. Anyway, he played Pereira way too much instead of Gomes or Chong for example. If we look at this season, and even at the end of last, you can see that he has abandoned his philosophy. Again, I'm not saying he should field a U23 team. But he definitely should've played Elanga instead of James. Not only for our future, but from a tactical point of view too because he offers something different. We had too many similar players yesterday. No point playing Rashford or have Bruno in the squad, so could've had some youngsters on the bench.
Totally agree. I think it is a by product of our fans being spoilt for so many years under Fergie. We don't recognise the need for evolution and steady improvement season after season. As a fanbase we seem to have forgotten the 7 years of failure under Moyes, LVG and Jose. Now Ole has shown slight improvements some are demanding instant success. It doesn't work like that.
Give him time, for me he has to finish top 4 again this season, then let's see how we kick on next season. Talk of the title is premature but nice to be having the conversation in January. He is showing progression in style of play, squad/ team strength and mentality.
He just needs to iron out the defending set piece weakness, his in game subs and we desperately need a to top class CB with pace to complement Maguire and a top RW.
The previous paragraph is just my opinion on what needs to improve.
The truth, that many successful teams in top leagues across Europe over many decades, have employed past players as coaches and enjoyed success?It’s the truth. Unless you know something I don’t?
Do you really need me to share examples of this? Or can you do some research for yourself?
Your argument falls apart when it's quite clear neither Chong nor Gomes are good enough for this level yet. Neither showed enough, when given the chance, to nail down a spot.
There's absolutely no chance the club are going to start someone like Elanga in a match against championship opposition when he hasn't even been given a sub appearance yet.
Look at how Greenwood was managed. When they deem him ready he'll be on the bench. He'll get a few minutes here and there, then 20 or 30 and all going well then a start in low risk game. That process will likely be spread out over 6 months or so.
EDIT: Also the squad already has a lot of young players. You can't just keep throwing in 18yr olds. There has to be a balance.
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I think it's far too early to have a strong opinion either way on Fletcher's coaching ability and his appointment to United's backroom staff.
Agree that he played Pereira to much but he didn't have to many choices. Gomes and Chong got their chances but didn't take them. They weren't even close enough to get more chances. Lets see if Chong can mature from being at Werder Bremen but even there he isn't a shining light. More then often on the bench.
James is underrated by many in here. I don't know what Elanga have done so you can put him in before James. I'm not saying Elanga shouldn't be given chance. There is time for everything but he is still young and raw. Elanga, when given chance, should get few minutes here and there to learn. It is a big jump from junior football to senior. To many players have been rated high by to many and to early.
I'm intressted what you mean by tactical point of view. Why is it better to have Elanga there instead of James? What is it that Elanga can offer more then James?
Excellent post and the kind of rational explanation that I see delivered to the same few posters time and time again. It’s been clear for some time now that they are ignoring all of the positive elements of Oles tenure and I’d go as far as to say actively aren’t supporting him and the team. I just don’t understand why though, as the last 2 years have been a pretty fun ride.
A couple of facts about United since SAF retired.
1. We have never finished in the top 4 two seasons in a row. Every time we've finished in the top 4 it's fallen apart the next year.
2. We have never finished in the top 4 and won a cup in the same season.
3. Prior to the recent run of semi finals we competed in 17 cups (classing seasons where we went into the European cup having finished 3rd in the CL as one cup), winning 3, runner up in 1, semi final in 1. In the other 12 we finished nowhere.
I know we all want to win trophies but you can't reasonably suggest we're not progressing as a club.
We're well placed to finish top 4 two seasons in a row for the first time.
4 semi finals in a row is progress. That's a fact, much as it's frustrating not to have won one.
The average squad age is much younger and for the first time we have real options from the bench.
We're creating more chances and scoring more goals than at any point since SAF retired.
Are we where we want to be yet? No, of course not, but it takes time to reach the top. It took 4 years for Klopp, it took a few years for City when they got their oil money. Hell it took a few years for SAF - and there were plenty of disappointments along the way in all three cases.
Yes, there's one exception - Mourinho - but we've tried him and he won a couple of pots and finished 2nd. But the problem with Mourinho is it always, and I mean always, falls apart, and he leaves a disaster behind him. And the football is quite often dross along the way.
The Ole Outers on here appear to be a combination of jilted Mourinho-lovers who somehow believe that this time it'd be different and he would have built a dynasty at United if only he'd been able to flog every under 25 player that wasn't the finished article and replace him with a 29 year old at his peak; those who didn't fancy him from day 1 and are desperate to be proved right; and those who think that we can just get to the top in a couple of years without putting in the hard yards in between and living with a bit of disappointment.
I'm sorry, don't buy any of them. Mourinho's history tells us he wasn't ever the long term answer for us (though he did some good in his first couple of years). Any manager needs judging on his results and the progress the club has been making, so whether you think he's tactically naive, too nice, whatever, he's getting the results at the moment. And like it or not, there's another step or two on our journey to the top from a distant 3rd place finish and a few semis. We're getting closer though.
1. We have never finished in the top 4 two seasons in a row. Every time we've finished in the top 4 it's fallen apart the next year.
2. We have never finished in the top 4 and won a cup in the same season.
3. Prior to the recent run of semi finals we competed in 17 cups (classing seasons where we went into the European cup having finished 3rd in the CL as one cup), winning 3, runner up in 1, semi final in 1. In the other 12 we finished nowhere.
I know we all want to win trophies but you can't reasonably suggest we're not progressing as a club.
We're well placed to finish top 4 two seasons in a row for the first time.
4 semi finals in a row is progress. That's a fact, much as it's frustrating not to have won one.
The average squad age is much younger and for the first time we have real options from the bench.
We're creating more chances and scoring more goals than at any point since SAF retired.
Are we where we want to be yet? No, of course not, but it takes time to reach the top. It took 4 years for Klopp, it took a few years for City when they got their oil money. Hell it took a few years for SAF - and there were plenty of disappointments along the way in all three cases.
Yes, there's one exception - Mourinho - but we've tried him and he won a couple of pots and finished 2nd. But the problem with Mourinho is it always, and I mean always, falls apart, and he leaves a disaster behind him. And the football is quite often dross along the way.
The Ole Outers on here appear to be a combination of jilted Mourinho-lovers who somehow believe that this time it'd be different and he would have built a dynasty at United if only he'd been able to flog every under 25 player that wasn't the finished article and replace him with a 29 year old at his peak; those who didn't fancy him from day 1 and are desperate to be proved right; and those who think that we can just get to the top in a couple of years without putting in the hard yards in between and living with a bit of disappointment.
I'm sorry, don't buy any of them. Mourinho's history tells us he wasn't ever the long term answer for us (though he did some good in his first couple of years). Any manager needs judging on his results and the progress the club has been making, so whether you think he's tactically naive, too nice, whatever, he's getting the results at the moment. And like it or not, there's another step or two on our journey to the top from a distant 3rd place finish and a few semis. We're getting closer though.
I have no opinions on Mengi at all and don't believe I've ever posted about him to don't give me that.
What's the problem with Fletcher?
No the only reason I said that was because I thought you was taking me out of context. Basically I was saying we are okay to take a risk with Fletcher but we couldn’t take a risk with our highly rated youth player against a Championship team. I get it every game is pretty much a must win but saying you are promoting the United way and DNA means you are also responsible for making these risky decisions. Fergie did it loads of times. Ole has recently gone away from trying to break anyone in from the youth. But I’m here to be critiqued if I’m wrong. I can’t remember anyone sitting bench this season with a thought of let’s give this guy a taste of the first 11. All our bring ins have been well Experienced, like your Henderson’s for instance.
Be my guess. Name me a coaching set up that is similar to ours in experience and then adds less experience. I could understand if Jose was the manager and brought Fletcher in like he’s done with Ledley King and like he did with Carrick.
But we literally have Carrick already followed by McKenna who has way more creditials.. I’ll give him that. Then Mickey who literally is just an advisor. So on top of that they thought it was safe to bring in Fletcher. In my opinion Fletcher comes in to replace a Carrick. But yes inform me on other teams that have this set up.
Well he would have played Pellistri if not for covid. Diallo will also be slowly integrated. Too soon to be reactive and say he doesn't give youth enough chances.
Ok so no real problem with giving Fletcher and opportunity, then?
In relation to youth, as others have said we have one of the youngest squads in the league and we will be integrating Diallo and possibly Pellestri.
That along with the fact that we have squad players like Donny, Tuanzebe and Telles who needed minutes and first teamers who needed a rest means that I don't think we can really afford to blood many more youth players at the moment, even if they were ready.
As you say practically every game is a must win now.
Interesting to note how Tyler uses the (presumably correct) Norwegian pronunciation, "Oolay Goonar", at minute 1:25 and now it's just "Olly". Immigrant integration complete.
That is a much better pronounciation of Ole, yes
Still wondering how you guys can make it sound like Olly...
I do have a problem with Fletcher but not the idea or the integration. My problem with Fletcher is that we already have that role and we gave it to Carrick. I don’t think roles like that should be oversaturated. If they wanted additional coaching staff now they should have scouted appropriately.
Yeah I get your point with the integration of players.. but for someone thinking about the long term he’s really making selfish decisions. We don’t really need an FA cup that badly.. but he does.
So now we don't need FA cups but yet when we are knocked out there is a major criticism. It seems he can never win with some fans. He is selfish now
That's fine if you don't agree with hiring fletcher, but we aren't involved and haven't seen his work first hand so I don't have a huge problem with it but your charity comment was weird to me.
As for the FA Cup, many pundits, and many on here, would say that fans, the team and the manager need a trophy.
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