Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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The United said:
Just because we set up with 3 5 2 does not mean it is negative or set up badly. We had plenty of games with that set up where we controlled and beat other top teams soundly.

AWB not looking behind on crosses or Harry leaving the ball in front of the goal had nothing to do with bad set up. There is no set up that can prevent crosses the whole game.

Individual mistakes matter just like individual talents that can win the game. It is why you need better players or players with experiences in games like those.
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In one off matches against a PSG or RBL, United held their own and beat both and lost to both. It was a strange CL group as there were zero draws. Only group for that to happen. It was labeled the group of death, more like the group of feast and famine.

I like the fact that Ole isn't afraid for the team to adapt and change from time to time. Also considering his injuries and suspensions.

Not including the PSG and Barcelona knockout rounds from his time as interim manager, it was the first CL matches for Maguire, AWB, Bruno (I think), and Greenwood. As you said, many key players in the squad today have to go through the teething and they don't have many experienced players who have been there and done that.
 
The last 40 or so games have been the best season-long period(more or less) in the post Fergie era. It may not necessarily lead us to a trophy, though. Cups are volatile and Liverpool quite clearly has a better team.

But now it's not ridiculous to call Ole the best manager post Fergie, even without a cup trophy. No manager since Busby, not even Fergie, has had his team score more goals per game than Ole. It's damn entertaining and the results(in form of points per game) are also pretty good.
 
edcunited1878 said:
In one off matches against a PSG or RBL, United held their own and beat both and lost to both. It was a strange CL group as there were zero draws. Only group for that to happen. It was labeled the group of death, more like the group of feast and famine.

I like the fact that Ole isn't afraid for the team to adapt and change from time to time. Also considering his injuries and suspensions.

Not including the PSG and Barcelona knockout rounds from his time as interim manager, it was the first CL matches for Maguire, AWB, Bruno (I think), and Greenwood. As you said, many key players in the squad today have to go through the teething and they don't have many experienced players who have been there and done that.
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Yup and that includes Ole too with managing. People just yell like "we are United. We need to be able to deal with this and that situation and be on top bla bla". What they forget about is that it just does not work that way in reality.

SAF said Ole was very intelligent and good at reading games. You also have to realize that Ole is competing with a bunch of so called world class managers now in EPL. I trust that Ole is evolving and improving himself as a coach. Whether it will be good enough for United is remain to be seen. But, signs are encouraging to me so far.
 
TrustInOle said:
No offence but that's just a lazy comparison without relating it to actual events. AWB was playing wing back that game, with 3 CB's and was literally only stood a few yards away from Lindelof both times they switched to Angelino for their goals. His defensive positions when not 1v1 is his biggest weakness whilst defending. Hence Leeds today sending most crosses his way.
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no offence but your username is trustinole, I’m not convinced you can offer a balanced view
The United said:
Just because we set up with 3 5 2 does not mean it is negative or set up badly. We had plenty of games with that set up where we controlled and beat other top teams soundly.

AWB not looking behind on crosses or Harry leaving the ball in front of the goal had nothing to do with bad set up. There is no set up that can prevent mistakes like that on this earth.

Individual mistakes matter just like individual talents that can win the game. It is why you need better players or players with experiences in games like those.
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Its a 532 not a 352, our full backs don’t attack enough and aren’t wing backs.
It’s a formation that sees us line up with FIVE defenders and TWO defence minded midfielders. Meaning out of 11 players EIGHT were defensive players. It is negative and defensive but doesn’t always mean it’s badly set up. We’ve set up well with it before but it doesn’t take from the fact it is a defensive approach.

We have used this formation against the likes of City, PSG and Chelsea. If it needs to be any more obvious that when we go with it, it’s to make sure we’re more secure.

You will have to remind me of these games against top teams where we used this system and won ‘soundly’ and ‘controlled’ things.
We’ve won games using it of course but I wouldn’t describe any of them as controlling and sound victories. What we did do in the past in these games however was defend well. We didn’t do that against RBL because it didn’t make sense against how RBL play.

It is very easy to pick out specific moments in games and blame mistakes. You can literally do it with most goals scored. However the pattern of a game and how it unfolds tells you about the set up and tactics. It’s a game where we were all over the place for long spells and on the back foot early on which inevitably led to conceding the goals we did. This doesn’t happen if we start the game properly and get our tactics right.
 
Leroy The Red said:
no offence but your username is trustinole, I’m not convinced you can offer a balanced view
.
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Very mature response :lol: conversation instantly turned into Ole in/ out. This is why I tend to avoid conversations these days. I supplied you with the facts of the game and you attack my username. Brilliant.

I've criticized Ole when I feel the need to. Good chat. :rolleyes:
 
Leroy The Red said:
no offence but your username is trustinole, I’m not convinced you can offer a balanced view


Its a 532 not a 352, our full backs don’t attack enough and aren’t wing backs.
It’s a formation that sees us line up with FIVE defenders and TWO defence minded midfielders. Meaning out of 11 players EIGHT were defensive players. It is negative and defensive but doesn’t always mean it’s badly set up. We’ve set up well with it before but it doesn’t take from the fact it is a defensive approach.

We have used this formation against the likes of City, PSG and Chelsea. If it needs to be any more obvious that when we go with it, it’s to make sure we’re more secure.

You will have to remind me of these games against top teams where we used this system and won ‘soundly’ and ‘controlled’ things.
We’ve won games using it of course but I wouldn’t describe any of them as controlling and sound victories. What we did do in the past in these games however was defend well. We didn’t do that against RBL because it didn’t make sense against how RBL play.

It is very easy to pick out specific moments in games and blame mistakes. You can literally do it with most goals scored. However the pattern of a game and how it unfolds tells you about the set up and tactics. It’s a game where we were all over the place for long spells and on the back foot early on which inevitably led to conceding the goals we did. This doesn’t happen if we start the game properly and get our tactics right.
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You know the set up was to protect the wings with wing backs and outside defenders. But, guess what though, despite being defenders playing on wings, they didn't do a good job on the crosses which led to 2 goals. Which proved my point that it was not the set up. It was the individuals. I am sure Ole did not set that formation up with letting crossing coming in easily to concede in his mind. It is the opposite.

Defending well is a part of controlling the game no? You can do that by sitting deep to shut off or just press the hell out of the other team up front or just passing around. All of those are ways of defending.

I think you are one of those fans who forgets that when the whistle was blown on the first second of a game, it is all about to not concede first and foremost.

I mean it is fun to see we attack with 1 - 1- 8 formation and scores 10 goals while conceding none in a game. But, in multi billion business, that ain't do it.
 
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The United said:
You know the set up was to protect the wings with wing backs and outside defenders. But, guess what though, despite being defenders playing on wings, they didn't do a good job on the crosses which led to 2 goals. Which proved my point that it was not the set up. It was the individuals. I am sure Ole did not set that formation up with letting crossing coming in easily to concede in his mind. It is the opposite.

Defending well is a part of controlling the game no? You can do that by sitting deep to shut off or just press the hell out of the other team up front or just passing around. All of those are ways of defending.

I think you are one of those fans who forgets that when the whistle was blown on the first second of a game, it is all about to not concede first and foremost.

I mean it is fun to see we attack with 1 - 1- 8 formation and scores 10 goals while conceding none in a game. But, in multi billion business, that ain't do it.
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By playing the 532 we actually gave up the wide areas. We had no wingers playing and because our fbs are so deep we conceded the wide spaces. RBL also played their own wing backs, sacrificed their strikers and got their attacking midfielders to play in the spaces in front of our wing backs. It was 100% the tactical set up that cost us the game.

Our 532 system works well against team who play narrow and with inside forwards hence the success against PSG and City.

Also You mentioned ‘outside defenders’ but Maguire and Lindelof are very poor defending in wide areas. They don’t like being dragged out wide. There is no way that was the plan.

That last bit that starts with “I think you are one of those fans” doesn’t even make any sense. If you’re going to be condescending make sure you have a point that makes sense.
 
OleBoiii said:
The last 40 or so games have been the best season-long period(more or less) in the post Fergie era. It may not necessarily lead us to a trophy, though. Cups are volatile and Liverpool quite clearly has a better team.

But now it's not ridiculous to call Ole the best manager post Fergie, even without a cup trophy. No manager since Busby, not even Fergie, has had his team score more goals per game than Ole. It's damn entertaining and the results(in form of points per game) are also pretty good.
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Wow easy there.
You do have good points to be fair.

Best manager?
Ole is definitely far better than Moyes, LVG and caretaker Giggs. But then winning trophies is part of it so Mou have a slight edge there. Ole's football are definitely far more entertaining of course. Mou also besmirched his seasons with his negativeness later on, while Ole's so far is overall safe bar some bs comments.

:lol: Not much better choices since it's all bad and definitely not (at least not yet for Ole) up to standards requirements of United manager. Man, fans really are fine with low standards nowadays isn't it. It's on Ole vs Mou now, with Ole of course having the advantage to be the "best manager post Fergie" as he's still here. It's a pointless award/title. What matters in the end is trophies and better football. Mou have the trophies while Ole's football is for sure better than the rest definitely but no way that should be the final coffin, there are glaring weaknesses and low standards in many aspects of its football and system. Content for now but we should try aim more. If we accept it, then we're accepting low standards.

That said, I would describe caretaker Ole as the best manager, not this manager Ole. There are several key differences between the two in terms of systems, approach, liveliness and decisions makings. I much prefer the adventurous lively caretaker Ole than the more pragmatic passive Ole of today ever since he became the manager. Alas, that is only for about 3-4 months before Ole shaking in his boots and emphasize the need to be more protective.

Best season/period?
Completely agree since Bruno is here, all the games overall and the months period with him have been the best definitely. Year 2020 is the best and most fun. If we're comparing seasons though, season 16/17 for me is still the best. Last season is a season of two halves, shit first then superb 2nd. This season also had a bad start and going out of CL early it's embarrassing heritage, so no way this nor last season is the best season.
 
Web of Bissaka said:
Wow easy there.
You do have good points to be fair.

Best manager?
Ole is definitely far better than Moyes, LVG and caretaker Giggs. But then winning trophies is part of it so Mou have a slight edge there. Ole's football are definitely far more entertaining of course. Mou also besmirched his seasons with his negativeness later on, while Ole's so far is overall safe bar some bs comments.

:lol: Not much better choices since it's all bad and definitely not (at least not yet for Ole) up to standards requirements of United manager. Man, fans really are fine with low standards nowadays isn't it. It's on Ole vs Mou now, with Ole of course having the advantage to be the "best manager post Fergie" as he's still here. It's a pointless award/title. What matters in the end is trophies and better football. Mou have the trophies while Ole's football is for sure better than the rest definitely but no way that should be the final coffin, there are glaring weaknesses and low standards in many aspects of its football and system. Content for now but we should try aim more. If we accept it, then we're accepting low standards.

That said, I would describe caretaker Ole as the best manager, not this manager Ole. There are several key differences between the two in terms of systems, approach, liveliness and decisions makings. I much prefer the adventurous lively caretaker Ole than the more pragmatic passive Ole of today ever since he became the manager. Alas, that is only for about 3-4 months before Ole shaking in his boots and emphasize the need to be more protective.

Best season/period?
Completely agree since Bruno is here, all the games overall and the months period with him have been the best definitely. Year 2020 is the best and most fun. If we're comparing seasons though, season 16/17 for me is still the best. Last season is a season of two halves, shit first then superb 2nd. This season also had a bad start and going out of CL early it's embarrassing heritage, so no way this nor last season is the best season.
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I agree with most of your points but the bolded part is absolutely shambolic. A lot of his caretaker results were overrated in hindsight as the team was hanging on for dear life in some of those (think Tottenham away).
 
Leroy The Red said:
no offence but your username is trustinole, I’m not convinced you can offer a balanced view


Its a 532 not a 352, our full backs don’t attack enough and aren’t wing backs.
It’s a formation that sees us line up with FIVE defenders and TWO defence minded midfielders. Meaning out of 11 players EIGHT were defensive players. It is negative and defensive but doesn’t always mean it’s badly set up. We’ve set up well with it before but it doesn’t take from the fact it is a defensive approach.

We have used this formation against the likes of City, PSG and Chelsea. If it needs to be any more obvious that when we go with it, it’s to make sure we’re more secure.

You will have to remind me of these games against top teams where we used this system and won ‘soundly’ and ‘controlled’ things.
We’ve won games using it of course but I wouldn’t describe any of them as controlling and sound victories. What we did do in the past in these games however was defend well. We didn’t do that against RBL because it didn’t make sense against how RBL play.

It is very easy to pick out specific moments in games and blame mistakes. You can literally do it with most goals scored. However the pattern of a game and how it unfolds tells you about the set up and tactics. It’s a game where we were all over the place for long spells and on the back foot early on which inevitably led to conceding the goals we did. This doesn’t happen if we start the game properly and get our tactics right.
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Those first 15 minutes against RBL is the 15 minutes that has annoyed me most during the Ole reign:

We had one job, that was to ride off the pressure, and the game would fall into our hands with them leaving more and more space behind for us to attack as the clock worked against them. A good plan, but so poorly executed. It was not the "negative" lineup that lost us the match, it was the lack of focus, concentration and communication, giving away that much space on the back post in the opening minutes gave them 2 easy goals the first 15 minutes. Horrible positioning and communication from our all of our back 5, allthough AWB and Telles must take most of the blame. Those first 15 minutes reminded me of the Brighton game where Marsh got too much space on AWB's side again and again. We dominated the game and created enough to win it on a normal day, but that is hard when you concede 2 in the first 13 minutes. Without them scoring an early goal, I think we would have thrashed them with that formation.

The formation change at halftime was obviously needed as the game didn't pan out as planned.
 
troylocker said:
Those first 15 minutes against RBL is the 15 minutes that has annoyed me most during the Ole reign:

We had one job, that was to ride off the pressure, and the game would fall into our hands with them leaving more and more space behind for us to attack as the clock worked against them. A good plan, but so poorly executed. It was not the "negative" lineup that lost us the match, it was the lack of focus, concentration and communication, giving away that much space on the back post in the opening minutes gave them 2 easy goals the first 15 minutes. Horrible positioning and communication from our all of our back 5, allthough AWB and Telles must take most of the blame. Those first 15 minutes reminded me of the Brighton game where Marsh got too much space on AWB's side again and again. We dominated the game and created enough to win it on a normal day, but that is hard when you concede 2 in the first 13 minutes. Without them scoring an early goal, I think we would have thrashed them with that formation.

The formation change at halftime was obviously needed as the game didn't pan out as planned.
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And we still could have got away with that start but we conceded a really daft third goal too

I think Ole has set us up for games well the majority of times. People say hes got no tactics but that's not true.
Hes been let down by quite a lot individual errors.
 
I think those have been two excellent performances. He knew exactly what to do against Leeds and we've seen counter attack suits him to the ground. But it was more than that, it was quick movement and quick passing, opening them up left, right, and centre.

Tonight he managed for the first time in months to get us starting like a top team, and we were excellent for the first 15-20 minutes. Some chances taken and we'd have been much more comfortable from then on. Loads of changes but still a very good and committed performance.

Promising.
 
Better. We absolutely dominated them, had a purpose , had a style and went for it. It wasn't a typical counter attacking performance.
 
Since the Everton match which he could of got sacked if we lost we have been great. Top of the league in form since up to 3rd in the league with a game in hand and SF here. Disappointing still about the CL but overall we are doing fine.

Even if you are or were Ole in or Ole out we all want him to succeed here and the club will be doing well. We look poor at times but great at other times so no complaints
 
It seems to me he rotates a lot, I don't remember us fielding so many different players game in game out under other managers. Am I wrong?
 
Borys said:
It seems to me he rotates a lot, I don't remember us fielding so many different players game in game out under other managers. Am I wrong?
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now he’s got players he trusts. It’s also an exceptional season, and all rules go out of the window.

previously he didn’t rotate enough.
 
Borys said:
It seems to me he rotates a lot, I don't remember us fielding so many different players game in game out under other managers. Am I wrong?
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No manager had this kind of depth. We have 4 strikers for example and any combination which he picks will do well
 
Borys said:
It seems to me he rotates a lot, I don't remember us fielding so many different players game in game out under other managers. Am I wrong?
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It’s the secret for wining the league if you have the personnel for it: we spread the minutes and can win. Maguire is also good for that. Bruno is a worry but let’s see how it goes, maybe we rest him against Wolves or Villa.
 
sammsky1 said:
Squad depth he has identified and nurtured. Its all his credit.
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So Cavani and Donny are his players now? ;)
To be clear, i am saying that always; every player who is bought, is managers choice. Maybe every player was not his 1st choice but it was 2nd or 3rd.
It was annoying to read for me how some of them are bought by Ed without Ole wanting them.

Huh, just realised that that was you Sam. So is he backed or not? :wenger:
 
So wait, if we're now praising squad depth, shouldn't we be praising Woodward as well?
 
Andycoleno9 said:
So Cavani and Donny are his players now? ;)
To be clear, i am saying that always; every player who is bought, is managers choice. Maybe every player was not his 1st choice but it was 2nd or 3rd.
It was annoying to read for me how some of them are bought by Ed without Ole wanting them.

Huh, just realised that that was you Sam. So is he backed or not? :wenger:
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Not to win the title, no, not yet. He is over delivering right now.
 
sammsky1 said:
You think Ole should beat Liverpool with our squad? Not yet.
Need one more good summer window and then Ole will slay the Klopp.
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I think (and i am saying that over and over again);

1) He was backed nearly fully by Ed these two years. Only about right winger we can talk but we spent 50 mil on two rw this summer so it is also for debate. Two young rw but still, we signed them.
2) No, i don't think that we should or must win title this year BUT if 80-85 points will be enough for title then we must challenge for it.
3) We must win one cup. Any cup.
 
He's built a quality squad and is doing a fantastic job, the team just needs a trophy now.
 
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