Why is it moronic to sack a manager who is failing?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Why is it moronic to sack a manager who is failing?
You said he wouldn’t get sacked during the season. It would be moronic not to sack him during the season if he isn’t doing well.
I don't believe Woodward would pull the trigger irrespective of how the season is going.
I didn't say that I wouldn't sack him during the season.
What?! Ok let’s just go through this.
- You said you don’t think the board would sack him during the season.
- UtdStar01 said they surely aren’t that moronic.
- And you responded ‘Why is it moronic to sack a failing manager’.
Your response doesn’t really make sense. Seeing as UtdStar said it would be moronic for them NOT to sack him during the season.
I interpreted him wrongly.
One day...consistency..one day..
Clearly that day will never arrive in Ole's tenure. Too much dependency on individual brilliance, no signs of improvement on glaring weaknesses like starting games in lethargic fashion, clueless and pathetic at home (basically clueless against teams that are pragmatic)
I want him to succeed but can't see it.
Clearly that day will never arrive in Ole's tenure. Too much dependency on individual brilliance, no signs of improvement on glaring weaknesses like starting games in lethargic fashion, clueless and pathetic at home (basically clueless against teams that are pragmatic)
I want him to succeed but can't see it.
Can't you all, sackers, just get along as you actually meant the same thing.
In Klopps second full season his Liverpool side had 13 pts after 9 fixtures in the league.
Now RedCafe, I’m intrigued to hear some agendas. shoot!
Btw
yes, I’m fully aware that Klopp never smiled in his post match interview after his team got spanked by City and Spurs (9-1)
yes, I do know that the weather wasn’t too nice the days they dropped points.
Now RedCafe, I’m intrigued to hear some agendas. shoot!
Btw
yes, I’m fully aware that Klopp never smiled in his post match interview after his team got spanked by City and Spurs (9-1)
yes, I do know that the weather wasn’t too nice the days they dropped points.
I'd doubt so. If he can't win his next 3 PL matches I think he would. I still support Ole and hope he can turn the table. Mostly because I'm kinda tired of the shit starting all over again with a new manager. And imo he's done a pretty good job in building a young hard working squad. But at the end of the days, manager is a results based job anyway.
But who would be our next manager then? Poch? His records against the top teams are basically wank. Imo that's a big reason why he's been out of job for a while and no big club wants him. Then who? I've no idea. And I don't think our board and Ed have either. Some say we can try the 'throwing wet paper against the wall' strategy. Maybe it's not a bad idea after all.
We as a club has no clear vision of how we should play, or our identity. Our clueless board delegates all that to the manager. Hope we can strike gold next time. But given how shite Ed and our board are, it'd be a bloody miracle I think.
P/S: on another thought, Poch would be a perfect candidate for the current Utd I think. He got Spurs regularly top 4 with a pretty tight budget. Would be perfect for Ed and the Glazers.
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Nice, let's just bring up stats without context. Did your stats account for the fact that Klopp's high intensity, dominant style was becoming very evident, despite the results not always being there. That's not even taking into account the absolute bucket load of cash Ole has spent, on a team you could argue was far better than the one that Klopp inherited.
Has he though?
He blamed our collapse at the end of his first season on a lack of fitness and appetite for hard work. A lot of clever clogs on here ridiculed him for it, but all the evidence supported him; our work rate under Jose was one of the worst in the league. Just look at the condition Lukaku had been allowed to get into.
18 months on though, it’s hard to see more than a marginal improvement in work rate; much of which is probably down to one player (Fred). Off the ball movement is still minimal, and particularly against Arsenal we just looked lethargic and, well, lazy.
Is this entirely the fault of Ole not practising what he was preaching, or is it part of a deeper malaise at the club where the culture has become so lackadaisical nobody is actually expected to work hard? Either way, it’s on the manager to sort it out.
As for the rest of your post, I 100% agree; particularly the Poch bits. Though I’m ashamed to say that having grown up as a fan in the 70s, I find manager changes quite exciting!
I think yes. Because generally the whole team runs a lot more.
We've witnessed a few drop here and there, one at the last months of 2017/2018 season, another at the last rounds of 2018/2019 season. And recently at the start of this season. But imo it's more likely down to fitness than some mentality issues. We have some very hard working players now. Like Fred, Bruno, McT. The rest are ok. Even Martial has considerably upped his work rate. The only one I would say stay the same or even got lazier is Pogba.
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This is just lazy sensationalist nonsense. Comparing the best manager in world football statistically as a means to justify a manager who's only meaningful achievement in his career is a league win with Molde. The logic posted on this forum is mental at times. "Sir Alex took 4 years to win a trophy so this is a minimum requirement for us to judge Ole with"
One good thing about the Glazers is even they aren't as sentimental as many of the fan base.In case you don't know there were many posters here laughing aloud at Klopp and Liverpool before he won a thing. Hindsight is always great. Or you were of the opinion that he was the best coach in the world even before he won his first CL and PL?This is just lazy sensationalist nonsense. Comparing the best manager in world football statistically as a means to justify a manager who's only meaningful achievement in his career is a league win with Molde. The logic posted on this forum is mental at times. "Sir Alex took 4 years to win a trophy so this is a minimum requirement for us to judge Ole with"
The logic of the caf? There's basically none. Only agenda. Very few can post without any.
Ole did well to get us 3rd last season. But we were a game away from finishing 5th. Very close margins.
Ole may take us into the top 4 again and may get us to the FA cup final. If Utd fans are happy with that, then that's fine.
But if you want to compete to win the only 2 trophies that matter. Then he simply is not the man.
Ole may take us into the top 4 again and may get us to the FA cup final. If Utd fans are happy with that, then that's fine.
But if you want to compete to win the only 2 trophies that matter. Then he simply is not the man.
Couldn't agree more. There is no consistency in tactics or style of play under Ole. Team selections are baffling at times.
We constantly struggle against teams who sit in and we look no closer to finding the answer.
I would love him to be the one to bring us real success back but it's just not happening under him
I think this is an excellent point. Changing systems all the time just won't work in the long run. Most top clubs these days have their youth teams playing the same system as their first team. That's why when youth players are called upon, they generally look settled quite early on.
The only top manager that doesn't seem to have a discernible ideology would be Zidane. But he was relying on the individual brilliance of his players when he won all those CL's.
Not this old tripe again. Anyone with a footballing brain could see what Klopp was trying to do and how he wanted LFC to play. It was just about getting the right players in.
No one know what style Ole is try to implement. There is no blue print or regular indication. He’s bought enough players to almost build a team but has failed to do so. We look no better now than when he first took charge.
And comparing him to Klopp is like comparing a Vauxhall to a Ferrari.
Exactly. What’s the point in identifying an issue if you’re incapable of doing anything about it? We were looking good with decent cup runs until we got to the latter stages, at which point everyone who defends Ole just shrugged their shoulders and said ‘ah it’s fatigue’, as if fatigue happens independently of how the manager manages his squad. What evidence is there that we won’t be affected by fatigue if we reach a semi final this season? He’s already having to sub Bruno off for tiredness which limits our chances of creating opportunities to score. How long are we going with the lack of pre-season excuse, and is it seamlessly going to transition into the end-of-season fatigue excuse?
If it’s a matter of not having the squad to compete on multiple fronts, he’s had four transfer windows to fill it out, but he’s chosen to go for the golden geese at premium prices. That’s a choice he’s made and it’s on him if the squad’s too thin. I mean, for the price of Maguire and AWB he could’ve had Upamecano, Kabak, Aarons and van de Beek which would not have left us much worse off on the pitch but would’ve prevented us from resorting to pereira and lingard coming on to save the day last season. I haven’t seen all those players enough, but it’s not like Maguire for £80m was the only option for the CB position or AWB for RB. Ole knew what Maguire and AWB would cost and he knows roughly what budget he has to work within. Choosing to go for few, expensive, players is fine but don’t moan when your squad ends up being thin and you can’t maintain the intensity, that you’ve identified as a weakness, during the latter stages of competitions.
Wasn't around at in the CAF that time but that's quite interesting if there were a lot of people laughing at Klopp. He won the Bundesliga twice and league cup with Dortmund and took them to cup finals including a champions league one where he outclassed Real Madrid to get there. His work at Mainz was also impressive. I am quite shocked if there were a lot of people laughing at Klopp after achieveing all this
Our inconsistent performances and results have all come with different excuses - lack of preseason, injuries, poor squad depth, lack of quality players, tiredness, player errors etc. But what is the excuse for our inconsistent style of play? Even if results are bad, a style of play should be consistent. Do the people currently supporting Ole think our style of play is consistent at all? It's 100 games now and we should be seeing one on a consistent basis. What style of play do you expect to see when we face Everton and Istanbul and Southampton and West Brom?
I'm shocked you're shocked. The prospect of a highly rated manager failing at your bitter rivals was always a dream scenario. We willed it to happen with the full weight of our cynical, sarcastic psychic minds but alas, we failed miserably. More of a shock surely, if the Caf had been patting them on the back and congratulating them on their progress.
You’re probably right. It really didn’t look that way v Arsenal though.
Well yes, though it’s still incumbent on him to get fitness levels up (unless he has no control over the fitness coaches at all, which given the way the club is run wouldn’t altogether surprise me
) and not select players who won’t put the effort in.Yes sounds like typical redcafe
And you do know that Conte and Ranieri won titles in first year?
It doesn't mean anything. Stop with that Klopp comparism ffs. Klopp did this, Klopp did that...it is really boring now
I was around but I wasn't posting at the caf by that time. Was busy in another utd forum. You may call it hindsight but truth is I was one of those who thought they were progressing and could become something serious. And I got a lot of sticks from our own fans for saying such. I just say what I think. Of course I didn't think Klopp was the best manager in the world.
I still remember saying what they lacked was a world class CB. Then they went on and bought VVD. Of course I had no idea that he could turn out to be what he has become. I was of the opinion that VVD would be a massive flop. Funny me.
Interestingly I always assumed that Ole was Fergie's pick and had his backing for the job at the least. It turns out reading some comments in the media today that Fergie actually wanted Poch and not Ole after Jose was sacked. Part of me wonders if this is being leaked by the club to garner support for a potential appointment and get the fans onside with Ferguson's endorsement.
Did Fergie ever make the same mistake 2x? He always learned and adapted after the Moyes endorsement/project I’m not surprised he didn’tmake the same United way error with Ole.
Truth is that Liverpool had some funny results in Klopps first three years. They could win against a good side and lose in the next coming fixture against a poor side. Sounds familiar.
And yes, this phrase about “process,” it’s everywhere, in every thread. “No style of play.” “No blueprint.” It’s getting boring now.
Ole will never make us play like Barcelona or make our “patterns of play” look like a prime City. If people don’t accept that and wants him gone it’s up to you. But, many people had a problem with how the club played football under Sir Alex. We had those three years with Ronaldo, and I remember Carlos Queiroz were highly regarded because United started to play like top international teams.
But, I don’t believe that Ole will be our coach when we’ll begin to win titles again. But I’m not basing that on the results we’ve had this season, I think we can turn it around. But I’m basing my view on Ole on the strong belief that I don’t think that there’s room for coaches like Sir Alex and for Ole anymore. But I still do hope he got 2-4 months more and hopefully he can turn this around. If he don’t, I really don’t hope we go for Pochettino.
And yes, this phrase about “process,” it’s everywhere, in every thread. “No style of play.” “No blueprint.” It’s getting boring now.
Ole will never make us play like Barcelona or make our “patterns of play” look like a prime City. If people don’t accept that and wants him gone it’s up to you. But, many people had a problem with how the club played football under Sir Alex. We had those three years with Ronaldo, and I remember Carlos Queiroz were highly regarded because United started to play like top international teams.
But, I don’t believe that Ole will be our coach when we’ll begin to win titles again. But I’m not basing that on the results we’ve had this season, I think we can turn it around. But I’m basing my view on Ole on the strong belief that I don’t think that there’s room for coaches like Sir Alex and for Ole anymore. But I still do hope he got 2-4 months more and hopefully he can turn this around. If he don’t, I really don’t hope we go for Pochettino.
Thanks for the memories but it's time to say goodbye.
That was all on him. Awful team selection and tactics. Why did he think a diamond would work after Arsenal? What are our defensive coaches doing? I will be sad when he is sacked but like putting a sick pet down i know it's the right thing to do.
Shall I be honest? Poch probably won't take us to the Premier league title but he is a step above solskjaer to be honest.
Might have to close this thread now, that was atrocious. This is going to get messy.
Its painfully obvious that he shouldn't be a manager at this level. Why does Manchester United employ a manager who wouldn't get job at any club in any of the top 5 leagues?
He had his uses for us, but we need to act quickly and replace him asap before we feck up another season.
He had his uses for us, but we need to act quickly and replace him asap before we feck up another season.
We'll go for Poch, but I don't think it will be the right appointment. You are right though, he will do better than this and I'll take it.
Surely he’s done now? Only two good results this season so far.
I think the fair thing to do is sack him before it gets worse, which it is going to do. We're an absolute shambles from back to front, no cohesion, patterns of play, structure of defence, nothing.
He has the easiest job in the world. How he hasn’t been sacked yet is beyond me
He's done isn't he? I'm one of the biggest Ole inners but tonight was end of an era stuff. Felt like Van Gaal winter 2015. Although Van Gaal survived that so who knows..?
He's Scott McTominay in manager form. Talks a good game, lots of passion, fans like him, but in reality never really good enough for Manchester United.
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