Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Our tactics changes and subs were mindboggling. Playing totally new formations that clearly nobody knew how to play, and our two worst midfielders staying on whilst we sub out the only players capable of actually making something happen.

He's assembled a very good squad but he is not good tactically, and two years in it's not getting any better. Our players rarely look like anything they do is drilled.
 
Fecked up today.The formation and starting line up did not work at all and the subs were utterly baffling. Pogba and McTomminay should have been taken off at HT.

Go back to 4231 with Matic and Fred playing deep and VdB, Bruno, Greenwood and Rashford in front of them
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Were the players letting him down when we smashed Leipzig?

If it was 1 or 2 players playing poorly today, then you might have a point.

The entire team was awful. He took too long to change shape and then shoehorned Pogba out wide for the change in shape. He made subs too late and made the wrong subs.

It was one of the worst games he's managed for us. A complete failure from him. Undid everything well he did vs Leipzig.
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I agree with you on Ole's performance, not trying to alleviate him of blame at all. But, he played the diamond we all wanted to see and some players really let us down. We were ridiculously sloppy, gave the ball away loads and the effort was poor from a select few.

Dare I say it, Bruno did a fair bit of strolling today.
 
The diamond he picked in midweek had players better suited to it, after it worked so well he’s probably changed how he would have played today and shoe horned in Mctominay in who was clueless.

Everything with Ole is made up as go along, no clear plan or identity and it’s not surprising our performance and results are so up and down.

This will be his last season at the club unless he actually starts to implement something consistent which so far he seems completely incapable of doing.
 
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Would love to know why Ole put Fred at the base and McTominay on the right. Might be one thing, but I think in terms of the balance of the team, it really affected our play.
 
If he gets us playing like this when we were at home in Europe, what will we be like when we have travelled to Turkey and are then away in the League. Against an extremely experienced manager.
 
I'm done with ole; I don't know understand his philosophy or the way he wants the players to play. I really don't believe its the players fault now, the loss is down to manager.

He was hoping for someone to make something out of nothing. Arteta played a low block and we couldn't do anything.
 
It's not the diamond. He could play the diamond and get it all wrong just like today. You need to play the right players in the right position.
 
It's not so much about how he plays, but all to do with how the opposition sets up.

If we're given licence to come forward and counter, we're deadly. If we're pressed and teams are well drilled, we simply won't show up.

It doesn't matter about the quality of opponent, or the tactics we use. It's all about our ethos and philosophy, and that's completely reliant on the opponent being more naive than us.
 
For every one of these insipid, rudderless performances, we don't learn anything new about Ole. We know everything we need to at this stage, at least in the context of modern football. He's a good manager in his way and he'll always be capable of putting together good performances and even runs, but it won't last. The pattern is established now. Sadly, I think we're in for a long PL season, which will likely end up with us finishing 5th or 6th, which will mean Ole will lose his job without winning the CL, which I can't imagine. The game has changed. Just because SAF was given lots of time over 30 years ago, doesn't mean that'll happen now, even before you consider that maybe we're trying to replicate one of the great outliers. Not many dynasties have developed from allowing managers 7 years to win their first title. Perhaps that was just the perfect storm.

He's done a lot of things well. He's brought in decent players - forgetting about their prices - who should be able to contribute over the next few seasons. He's brought through players, one of whom, looks like he might be a really top player. He's given us some huge performances against massive sides. He's also failed to solve some of the more pressing issues facing us and we're still mired in this race to finish in the top four, without ever really getting beyond. Maybe he will/would solves those issue given time - though I have my doubts - but I don't think he'll be afforded that time.
 
Alongside the coaching staff, have any of our players actually improved under him?

Some of our players have got better with age and more belief, but we look at our players and still see the same issues and criticisms we saw when they first showed up. That is most frustrating to me.
 
It’s the fact we never even created chances against Chelsea and Arsenal is the most worrying part
 
MattofManchester said:
Alongside the coaching staff, have any of our players actually improved under him?

Some of our players have got better with age and more belief, but we look at our players and still see the same issues and criticisms we saw when they first showed up. That is most frustrating to me.
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Rashford and Martial have been trusted by Ole over Lukaku, they both have improved. Ole has managed Greenwood's minutes very well and he's impressed a lot.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
Rashford and Martial have been trusted by Ole over Lukaku, they both have improved. Ole has managed Greenwood's minutes very well and he's impressed a lot.
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I'll respectfully disagree and it's a point I've thought about for a while.
In my opinion, Rashford has matured a lot more, but he is still making the same poor decisions that he made when he was 18. His movement when not running in behind is also still lacking and a few other things.

Martial has more bite to him, but I'm still seeing the same player I've always seen. Good finisher, great in tight areas, perfect close control, can take one too many touches and his first touch occasionally lets him down. Still looks a better player coming off the left. Still goes very much missing a lot of the time.

Both still struggle with movement and finding space and that has always been a problem. Look at Cavani in his small times and how he finds little pockets of space. For Rashford and Martial, with their pace, that would be a goldmine.

I think they've matured, but I still see the same flaws, and that kind of hinders them from taking it up a level.
 
It turns out that obsessing about United and consuming every bit of content leads to the following conclusions:-

1. United do not have the same dominance in resources over the rest of the league as we had in the early and late 2000s.

2. The Glazers have not bought us enough to ensure victory but have bought us enough to give us hope.

3. SAF was unique in being able to wring performances out of a similarly (relatively). underfunded team. Ole (or someone else) might get there with time but no United manager since SAF had been given the 4 years he got to win his first trophy (a FA cup final replay) and 7 years to win his first league.

4. Our expectations or resources and outcomes are based on the mature SAF management era not the yo-yo era when Utd came 2nd in 1987 and 11th the year after.

5. We forget Glazernomics outside transfer windows, blaming the manager and players yet forgetting the lack of resources. The real reason we lost to Arsenal was because there is no significant gap in acquired resources - e.g. because we don’t have quality CDMs (a Chelsea discard, a bigged up Academy product and a Ukrainian league anti-Brazilian do not count).

Ever single of the other managers hired has been terrible. Ole’s tenure is still in the immature, yo-yo stage and, given the above, I would be more than happy to give him the 7 years necessary (till 2025-26) to see if he can get us to the top.

Beimg a fan in 2020 is a lot like being a fan in 1988 under SAF. There is much sturm und drang at the time but in retrospect there will seem little point in getting exercised by it all.
 
He should be the DOF or coach, but not a manager. Some very good performances and then this kind of sh*thole. Too inconsistent and too nice. I don't see the drive and passion. We should give 200% when playing Arsenal, but we didnt even show up. That is a manager fault...
 
Showed very little understanding of the match today and how to solve the puzzle. The midfield combination wasn’t working out and he was slow to change it, and then the solution didn’t make sense.

I think he’s just not that good.

Lots of highs in Ole’s tenure but the overall win rate is the poorest of all managers after SAF. The problem is each of those matches are worth roughly the same; you don’t get 5 points from a PL win or a bit CL group stage win.

It’s a lot about delivering consistent positive results and it’s really not working out with Ole.

Arsenal effectively killing our play in midfield and registering more attacks than us.. at Old Trafford!! This is awful.
 
Red00012 said:
It’s the fact we never even created chances against Chelsea and Arsenal is the most worrying part
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Both teams played with 3 at the back and packed the mid/ central areas. The good news is teams are worried of our attacking power in these areas, the not so good thing is we didn't learn to unlock this strategy. This might be a case where top wingers are needed, or at least attacking full backs.

I expect more teams to do this against us and we need to find solutions asap.
 
Think it's best to accept that Ole will never have an answer when a team sets up properly,has truly turned us into just an counter attacking side and that's sad to see really
 
Read somewhere on here that Ole wants to "build the team around Pogba", if that is true he is effectively digging his own grave and does the same that LvG did by shoehorning a declining Rooney into the team.

Our stats with and without Pogba speak for themselves, he should be nowhere near the starting line up and it makes our midfield completely dysfunctional when hes playing
 
Bobcat said:
Read somewhere on here that Ole wants to "build the team around Pogba", if that is true he is effectively digging his own grave and does the same that LvG did by shoehorning a declining Rooney into the team.

Our stats with and without Pogba speak for themselves, he should be nowhere near the starting line up and it makes our midfield completely dysfunctional when hes playing
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Dug his own grave after that total collapse in the 18/19 season and just backs up what I have said all along
 
croadyman said:
Think it's best to accept that Ole will never have an answer when a team sets up properly,has truly turned us into just an counter attacking side and that's sad to see really
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Or to unlock a team that packs the middle requires width, our Achilles heel at the moment. It's telling about our evolution that big teams are now looking to counter our strengths rather then just playing their normal game and expecting to come on top.
 
jackal&hyde said:
Or to unlock a team that packs the middle requires width, our Achilles heel at the moment. It's telling about our evolution that big teams are now looking to counter our strengths rather then just playing their normal game and expecting to come on top.
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Yeah well and truly found out
 
I hope he'd realise that Pogba is not for the Prem. He can do something in the CL where the matches are generally slower and less physical. Ole, please do not ever start that wanker again in the league. For the sake of this club and especially yours.
 
jackal&hyde said:
Both teams played with 3 at the back and packed the mid/ central areas. The good news is teams are worried of our attacking power in these areas, the not so good thing is we didn't learn to unlock this strategy. This might be a case where top wingers are needed, or at least attacking full backs.

I expect more teams to do this against us and we need to find solutions asap.
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Bingo, in both cases we "lost the midfield battle" and in both cases we barely created any attacking threat at all.

Problem #1 is that we want to play out from the back, but we absolutely suck at it because our CB's dont get enough support from midfield. Saw it time and time again yesterday that Arsenal pushed up and created a number advantage in our own half so we just had to play it safe and hit it sideways. If you see your CB's getting pressed then you get your arse back and help them out with the build up. Every other top team you see their midfield working as a unit and move up and down the pitch where as we seem to be stationary around the midfield circle most of the time

Problem "#2 is how useless our midfield is at beating press. Besides Bruno, no one seems to have the ability to create space for themselves and pick out a good pass, go past a player or beat the first line of press. Unless the other team is in imbalance we seem completely unable to go past them and the ball ends up wide 9/10 times

Problem #3 is that no one seems to want the ball. This is why Mata seems like a world beater when he plays because besides Bruno, no one seems able to make smart moves off the ball and make themselves available in good areas. The result of all of this is that all of the attacking burden gets put on Bruno and whoever plays in attack. This works when the other team has pushed their midfield higher, but if they stay structured we effectively end up attacking with 4 vs 9 again and again and our own midfield is just "there"

Fred and McTomminay are good at winning the ball, but are bang average otherwise and i think very overrated by United fans in general. Would these two get into any other top 6 teams midfield? I dont think so. Pogba is simply a liability.

Assuming we play 4231, Matic and Fred as the deep players. The former might be slow, but at least he has some ability on the ball. If we play with 4 in the middle then Matic, Fred, DvB and Bruno needs to play there
 
Strelok said:
I hope he'd realise that Pogba is not for the Prem. He can do something in the CL where the matches are generally slower and less physical. Ole, please do not ever start that wanker again in the league. For the sake of this club and especially yours.
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Says it all he has had single figure good moments at this club in 4 years
 
croadyman said:
Says it all he has had single figure good moments at this club in 4 years
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And more than double figure of bad moments. And when I say double figure I actually mean 9x.

Anyway, imo the responsibility is entirely on Ole. It's his job to assess and pick the best tactic and lineup possible. Yesterday he got both completely wrong. Hope he'd learn from this.
 
The line up looked like it would work and get the best out of every single player.
But having Fred the deepest and not mcT seemed the oddest decision. Maybe he thought McT is limited in terms of passing? If so its weird he played unless he wanted extra protection? But then you saw it early on that McT kept dropping deep anyway.

The worst thing was that he didnt change anything until half time. Why not tell the players to mix it up / go long to avoid the press? We didnt learn a damn thing from the Southampton game.
His subs then cost us any chance of getting back into the game.

He needs to take a lot of responsibility for allowing this to happen.
 
Sylar said:
The line up looked like it would work and get the best out of every single player.
But having Fred the deepest and not mcT seemed the oddest decision. Maybe he thought McT is limited in terms of passing? If so its weird he played unless he wanted extra protection? But then you saw it early on that McT kept dropping deep anyway.

The worst thing was that he didnt change anything until half time. Why not tell the players to mix it up / go long to avoid the press? We didnt learn a damn thing from the Southampton game.
His subs then cost us any chance of getting back into the game.

He needs to take a lot of responsibility for allowing this to happen.
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I wonder if some people actually watch the whole match.

We di go long on many occasions; easily gobbled up by Gabriel,Partey etc. If they didn't they made sure they clattered into Rashford,Pogba whoever.

All predictable. We just don't have a David Silva to break through the lines. For all his ability, Bruno isn't that player. For all his talent, Pogba is an arrogant waste of space
 
Inigo Montoya said:
I wonder if some people actually watch the whole match.

We di go long on many occasions; easily gobbled up by Gabriel,Partey etc. If they didn't they made sure they clattered into Rashford,Pogba whoever.

All predictable. We just don't have a David Silva to break through the lines. For all his ability, Bruno isn't that player. For all his talent, Pogba is an arrogant waste of space
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Going long doesnt mean just lump it to the forward. going long can mean a long diagonal where a player goes out wide? Are you saying we mixed it up?

Yeah I really do wonder if you watched the whole match too.
 
Sylar said:
Going long doesnt mean just lump it to the forward. going long can mean a long diagonal where a player goes out wide? Are you saying we mixed it up?

Yeah I really do wonder if you watched the whole match too.
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I watched the whole thing mate and taped it too!

We went diagonal to Pogba, AWB, Greenwood....didn't work. We had to go down the middle because they pressed every time.Watch it again. We mixed it up but never really beat their press. They were too quick to the ball, too organised. Everyone had a role and fulfilled it. It wasn't pretty and they got lucky with the pen but I never saw where we were going to score; long or short.

This crap about we should have mixed it up blah blah snooze.... We never once played to our strengths;it was a mixture of individuals trying to do things individually not as a unit. It was worse than Chelsea
 
Inigo Montoya said:
I watched the whole thing mate and taped it too!

We went diagonal to Pogba, AWB, Greenwood....didn't work. We had to go down the middle because they pressed every time.Watch it again. We mixed it up but never really beat their press. They were too quick to the ball, too organised. Everyone had a role and fulfilled it. It wasn't pretty and they got lucky with the pen but I never saw where we were going to score; long or short.

This crap about we should have mixed it up blah blah snooze.... We never once played to our strengths;it was a mixture of individuals trying to do things individually not as a unit. It was worse than Chelsea
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Neither team was going to score unless it was a mistake, that was obvious. Unfortunately we made the mistake (and tbf, would have been same as Chelsea/Saints game where we arent learning to play against the formation or the press)
 
Ole's got a good set of players now so we really shouldn't be getting these yo-yo results.
 
Sylar said:
The line up looked like it would work and get the best out of every single player.
But having Fred the deepest and not mcT seemed the oddest decision. Maybe he thought McT is limited in terms of passing? If so its weird he played unless he wanted extra protection? But then you saw it early on that McT kept dropping deep anyway.

The worst thing was that he didnt change anything until half time. Why not tell the players to mix it up / go long to avoid the press? We didnt learn a damn thing from the Southampton game.
His subs then cost us any chance of getting back into the game.

He needs to take a lot of responsibility for allowing this to happen.
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That's the problem. Ole doesn't realise things are not working. He seems to think let's just hang in there and try and get goal from a free kick or penalty. Then we can play defensive and counter attack.

He hasn't got it in his locker to change tinker the formation during games.
 
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