Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Has done a lot of positive things IMO but if we don't make top 4, it's 100% on him and the way he's managed the squad. Pretty amateurish in terms of running the squad into the ground, and not being able to put out a team that can create chances against a West Ham with nothing to play for, at Old Trafford. Anyway... Live and learn... just kinda weird that the United job is a learn on the job situation.
 
flappyjay said:
Chelsea players have been rotated more. Pulisic is not even playing right now. Their midfielders Jorginho, mount, kante, Barkley, kovacic, loftus cheek have all started various league games.
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great, so there is my point! They have rotated and tell me how has that worked out for them?
We are now above them
 
RedSky said:
I'm 100% sure that had we rested players against Chelsea and got beat then all of the anti Ole posters would have applied this logic and not twisted the knife... LVG was fired for a huge drop off in form, we've not had that with Ole, we've had the exact opposite. We're on our current 2nd best league run since Sir Alex retired, having just followed the longest unbeaten run in all comps. We're clearly making progress as a team, just need some patience.

I know everyone is currently losing their shit and filling their nappies, but a draw is a decent result for us.
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Read to understand, winning the FA Cup does absolutely nothing for us whilst getting top four would ensure that we continue the rebuild from a position of strength. He has failed to manage the workload of his more important players and now we have players dead on the feet and have nothing to show the running them to the ground.

He clearly doesn't trust half of his squad so why did he risk his best players' fitness for a romantic trophy that us ultimately meaningless to our progression as a club? I am not demanding that he be sacked but I would understand it if he was.
 
RedSky said:
I admire his attitude to the FA Cup, don't want a Pochettino type manager that picks and chooses which trophies to go for and ends up with nothing. That's not the attitude we should have at United no matter the situation imo.

Do think he should have rotated Fred, Bruno, McTom and Pogba more though. But players like Pereira, Lingard, Mata and co add very, very little. I've said it for years that the problem is the players are simply not fit to wear the shirt and we've had so many of these that fit into that criteria. Next season hopefully the schedule will be back to normal and we can add a few more top quality players to help ease the problem.
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That is a commendable attitude we should aspire to have for sure, but if Ole knows he has a maximum of 13 players he trusts to play his system in a big game he needs to prioritise, he just needs to. The FA Cup has fallen below top four in the list of priorities for top English clubs, so if a manager can see fatigue creeping into his top players and he knows his squadies are not up to it he needs to take action. I haven't looked through the relevant threads but I may have said about the cup games, 'rest a few, but go strong, we're United, we should be challenging on all fronts etc.' but I'd have happily eaten my words if Ole would have rested six or seven first teamers and said 'you can all suck my balls, I work with these lads every day and they're desperate for a rest. We need CL football and I don't give a shit'.

If we can limp over the line the gambles he's taken will have paid off and we can look forward to having a crack at the EL, but if we feck it up on Sunday Ole's decisions are all under the microscope, as harsh as it may be.
 
Problem today was that our players since the start were not fired up. In crucial match of the season. Manager is there to give them morale boost.
 
In the end great managers make even average players blend in and get time out of them . Ole seems to be really poor at this
 
There are quite a few reasons for why the club won't dispense with Ole, whatever happens, this year. He's making some progress, limited to the first XI. In that he's finally managed to open up deep defenses. Greenwood being clinical, Bruno slotting superbly in, and Pogba coming back from injury, were absolutely crucial to this. Prior to that, he'd set us up like you would set up a relegation candidate, being the "small team" in every big game. And he did well, in terms of those results.

Importantly he also toes the line and won't put any pressure on the board, whatsoever, because he's not here on merit.

Last season when we started faltering, it was all "a few months ago we would have bitten your hand off for being in this position.." and now Neville is churning out that line again. So team management (not destroying players by overplaying them, playing them when they're injured or rushing them back from injury - check, check, check) needs to massively improve. In-game management needs to exist. And finding out how to play like a dominant team needs to be the next chapter for him and his staff. Maybe he'll need to add competency to his coaching staff.
 
Today is not the day to evaluate his long term future. Top 4 I still in our hands.

From my perspective there are unfortunately a few things to be worried about.

1. Lack of trust of his squad players.
2. Unwillingness to rotate tired players.
3. His lame game management. Nobody expect him to run around and scream but a little bit of emotions and activity is preferable.
4. So far I haven’t seen any sign of active coaching when the original game plan isn’t working. Coincidence?


We have to wait until Sunday to give the final verdict but if we qualify to the CL then there is nothing to complain about. If we don’t then questions has to be asked. Let’s hope we have a good Sunday. My heart can’t take any more disappointments.
 
Just one more game. Just don’t lose and after that you can sell, sack, drop or bollock anyone you want. Until then, stay positive, be positive and get over the line.

Going to town on people, dropping them, ending their careers will not be good for morale with a very important game coming up.
 
I'm equally worried about him not rotating with (with good midfield options available) but also worried about how weak this team is fitness wise.
 
crossy1686 said:
Just one more game. Just don’t lose and after that you can sell, sack, drop or bollock anyone you want. Until then, stay positive, be positive and get over the line.

Going to town on people, dropping them, ending their careers will not be good for morale with a very important game coming up.
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Agree. Although he does, imo, need to light a fire up their backsides for this last game.

They need firing up, they have gone into their shells. I honestly think it's more mental than it is a fatigue issue.
 
If we start at Leicester with Lingard, McTomminay and Fred in midfield we won’t make the top 4. Same today, we would have lost.

As it stands, we’re third somehow and go into The last game with it completely in our hands
 
crossy1686 said:
If we start at Leicester with Lingard, McTomminay and Fred in midfield we won’t make the top 4. Same today, we would have lost.

As it stands, we’re third somehow and go into The last game with it completely in our hands
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Well said
 
RUCK4444 said:
Agree. Although he does, imo, need to light a fire up their backsides for this last game.

They need firing up, they have gone into their shells. I honestly think it's more mental than it is a fatigue issue.
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I agree but I don’t think the group are mentally strong enough to respond to a Roy Keane style dressing down, I think they’d just respond worse like they did at the end of last season when the pressure was really on and they were getting shit from the fans.

Unfortunately the message has to be nothing but supportive and positive before Leicester. You can do it, it’s in our hands, go out there and give it your all, don’t have any regrets etc, that’s the only way to get through to this bunch.

If he goes full Mourinho on them we might as well start getting prepped for the EL now
 
Bit pissed off with Ole. I feel he's ducked out of making tough decisions with regards to rotation and has instead just been going off how the players feel with his team selection. It's great to have an unchanged team but not with the COVID fixture pile up. Why the likes of Rashford, Pogba, Bruno and Matic have played so often when we could utilise Ighalo, Fred, Mctominay and keep things fresh I'll never know.

It will be this lack of freshness that costs us if we don't get over the line.
 
TheReligion said:
Bit pissed off with Ole. I feel he's ducked out of making tough decisions with regards to rotation and has instead just been going off how the players feel with his team selection. It's great to have an unchanged team but not with the COVID fixture pile up. Why the likes of Rashford, Pogba, Bruno and Matic have played so often when we could utilise Ighalo, Fred, Mctominay and keep things fresh I'll never know.

It will be this lack of freshness that costs us if we don't get over the line.
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If it gets us CL football the gamble paid off, I think rotating the squad would have cost us more points to be fair. He clearly doesn’t trust a lot of the squad but doing anything significant now when we’ve got big games to play wouldn’t be a good idea. I think we’ll see some big changes in the summer
 
Rash Decision said:
Yet to put together a sustained run of genuinely good performances though. Results are good in streaks, yes.

I'm not saying Ole will never be good enough, but he certainly hasn't proven himself yet. It's reasonable to still have reservations.
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Yes to the bold part, agreed but you said he was poor, we are third in the table with a mediocre squad that’s had its main talents out for large parts of the season.

I agree the jury is still out though
 
Ole is going to need alot of these players he's left out recently next season because there sure as hell wont be a major overhaul this coming transfer window in this climate.
 
Stop with this fecking 4231. We aren't coached well enough to deal with press and when there is at times so much space between Bruno and Pogba and an immobile Matic, we get extremely overrun in midfield. Especially as Pogba isn't exactly known for keeping things simple.

When we get overrun in midfield and lose the midfield battle, our forwards can't get into isolated positions as much and we lose dominance of the ball.

Switch to a 433, sign a mobile DM, push Pogba and Bruno up higher, sigh Sancho. I honestly don't think our defence is that bad, they're just extremely pressured at times. If you sign a mobile DM, I do think that will ease the burden off them significantly.

We also offer very little off the fullbacks, even when AWB and Shaw are fit. Which allows the opposition to push higher up without being worried and also pushes Rashford and Greenwood out wider than they probably want to be at times, as our FB's offer little width. Can't see Laird in the squad soon enough.
 
crossy1686 said:
If it gets us CL football the gamble paid off, I think rotating the squad would have cost us more points to be fair. He clearly doesn’t trust a lot of the squad but doing anything significant now when we’ve got big games to play wouldn’t be a good idea. I think we’ll see some big changes in the summer
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I can't see how resting one player each game would have been an issue. So go full strength but put Mctominay in with Pogba instead of Matic. Next game pull Bruno out and drop Fred in etc. It doesn't have to be wholesale changes, infact it shouldn't be. It also keeps people on their toes. For me he's got it wrong in that sense.
 
Scousers must be loving it right now, seeing how deluded our fan base is. Ole won't achieve anything major with us that much is pretty clear for anyone outside our red glasses.
 
He has really good pre match press conf but after match when we lose or draw i want to throw something on him.
 
We look knackered and he's played the same players constantly but if I look at how it's been since we went on the unbeaten run and ask myself "would I have done any different? " then I think the answer may be no. He's got a set number of players that were playing great, whenever he brought anyone on, they were not playing remotely close to the same level so I think it was a case of "let's run them in to the ground and hope they get us over the line because I can't rely on anyone else to win matches" and I think although it is not a pretty sight right now as we've run out of steam and ideas, it will ultimately be the best decision.

Sooo many people in the match day threads have said lines "same 11, let's get the win" or something to that effect before a game because deep down we all know that our bench, whilst good players, can't really change games.

We're currently third and one more win will keep us there. If we get a draw, even that may be enough to finish third and if we finish in that position and we think about how we were in the first half of the season, then it's a bloody miracle!! I really don't care how we get over the line now, just so long as we do and I'm sure Ole is the same.

He's doing a good job. We can only really judge him after he's had another window and season here. It seems like a long time but he's only been our manager 18 months.
 
7even said:
Today is not the day to evaluate his long term future. Top 4 I still in our hands.

From my perspective there are unfortunately a few things to be worried about.

1. Lack of trust of his squad players.
2. Unwillingness to rotate tired players.
3. His lame game management. Nobody expect him to run around and scream but a little bit of emotions and activity is preferable.
4. So far I haven’t seen any sign of active coaching when the original game plan isn’t working. Coincidence?


We have to wait until Sunday to give the final verdict but if we qualify to the CL then there is nothing to complain about. If we don’t then questions has to be asked. Let’s hope we have a good Sunday. My heart can’t take any more disappointments.
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I strongly disagree with the bolded part.

One good result/ bad result can't just change the evaluation of the whole campaign.

Qualifying for CL is good, but it's not a trophy for the club. We can still burn all those extra money CL bring in with stupid contract anyways (!), so be careful assessing our situation. CL qualification shouldn't change our assessment.

I believe talent, squad strength wise, we're about right we should be. Among the EL spots and 3rd, 4th place, just like last season without any new signings, when the team performed, we coukd have overtaken Chelsea who finished 3rd. This season is pretty similar.

Style wise, there is still not solid foundation of a style. We're relying on our 3 attackers, but can't find a reliable to supply them. Can't always play on counter since certain teams would park the bus against us. Our fullbacks ain't exactly great attack wise. Pogba and Bruno can have great moment but as an unit, we're yet to control the game, pinning opposition down, finding a consistent route to our forwards through the middle.

The question is whether Ole has it in him to move to the next level, or we would have still have to rely on players quality, and the result suffer when we have an injury crisis, or when key players out of form. It's amusing now people starting to smear on our squad strength, when not long ago McTominay, Fred, Dan James, Ighalo were considered good (not that I agreed to some of the assessment).
 
SirScholes said:
Yes to the bold part, agreed but you said he was poor, we are third in the table with a mediocre squad that’s had its main talents out for large parts of the season.

I agree the jury is still out though
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Oh I'm not the poster who said he was poor that you had replied to.

But I do think that although yes, he had his main talents out for large parts of the season, he hasn't really demonstrated a good enough ability to coach the team into something more than the sum of its parts. Where he deserves massive credit is in improving the individual performances of his attacking players, and enabling them to form little partnerships on the pitch. Where he has fallen short is developing a robust enough system that organises the players better and minimises our reliance on individual form and performances. When I watch our best performances post-lockdown, I see a platform for our attacking players to improvise, be dangerous and demonstrate flair. Very exciting. What I don't see however is a well-drilled side in a system that allows our team to perform to a minimum standard without relying on moments of improvisation or brilliance. Our inability to cope with pressing is a consequence of this. Players spend too long trying to spot the correct pass, when a drilled system would enable them to find the pass almost automatically. Our game plan for our first choice 11 looks a bit simplistic in that we have a rudimentary 3-3-1-3 build-up structure in attack, but the rest of the plan seems mostly to revolve around letting our front 5 do their thing. Compare it to how City "pre-plans" and structures their play and there's a lot of difference. That's my take.
 
TheReligion said:
I can't see how resting one player each game would have been an issue. So go full strength but put Mctominay in with Pogba instead of Matic. Next game pull Bruno out and drop Fred in etc. It doesn't have to be wholesale changes, infact it shouldn't be. It also keeps people on their toes. For me he's got it wrong in that sense.
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I think just get through the next game and then do whatever you want, just don't change a winning team
 
Bastian said:
There are quite a few reasons for why the club won't dispense with Ole, whatever happens, this year. He's making some progress, limited to the first XI. In that he's finally managed to open up deep defenses. Greenwood being clinical, Bruno slotting superbly in, and Pogba coming back from injury, were absolutely crucial to this. Prior to that, he'd set us up like you would set up a relegation candidate, being the "small team" in every big game. And he did well, in terms of those results.

Importantly he also toes the line and won't put any pressure on the board, whatsoever, because he's not here on merit.

Last season when we started faltering, it was all "a few months ago we would have bitten your hand off for being in this position.." and now Neville is churning out that line again. So team management (not destroying players by overplaying them, playing them when they're injured or rushing them back from injury - check, check, check) needs to massively improve. In-game management needs to exist. And finding out how to play like a dominant team needs to be the next chapter for him and his staff. Maybe he'll need to add competency to his coaching staff.
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minor issues
 
Rash Decision said:
Oh I'm not the poster who said he was poor that you had replied to.

But I do think that although yes, he had his main talents out for large parts of the season, he hasn't really demonstrated a good enough ability to coach the team into something more than the sum of its parts. Where he deserves massive credit is in improving the individual performances of his attacking players, and enabling them to form little partnerships on the pitch. Where he has fallen short is developing a robust enough system that organises the players better and minimises our reliance on individual form and performances. When I watch our best performances post-lockdown, I see a platform for our attacking players to improvise, be dangerous and demonstrate flair. Very exciting. What I don't see however is a well-drilled side in a system that allows our team to perform to a minimum standard without relying on moments of improvisation or brilliance. Our inability to cope with pressing is a consequence of this. Players spend too long trying to spot the correct pass, when a drilled system would enable them to find the pass almost automatically. Our game plan for our first choice 11 looks a bit simplistic in that we have a rudimentary 3-3-1-3 build-up structure in attack, but the rest of the plan seems mostly to revolve around letting our front 5 do their thing. Compare it to how City "pre-plans" and structures their play and there's a lot of difference. That's my take.
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Agree with that all.
 
Rash Decision said:
Oh I'm not the poster who said he was poor that you had replied to.

But I do think that although yes, he had his main talents out for large parts of the season, he hasn't really demonstrated a good enough ability to coach the team into something more than the sum of its parts. Where he deserves massive credit is in improving the individual performances of his attacking players, and enabling them to form little partnerships on the pitch. Where he has fallen short is developing a robust enough system that organises the players better and minimises our reliance on individual form and performances. When I watch our best performances post-lockdown, I see a platform for our attacking players to improvise, be dangerous and demonstrate flair. Very exciting. What I don't see however is a well-drilled side in a system that allows our team to perform to a minimum standard without relying on moments of improvisation or brilliance. Our inability to cope with pressing is a consequence of this. Players spend too long trying to spot the correct pass, when a drilled system would enable them to find the pass almost automatically. Our game plan for our first choice 11 looks a bit simplistic in that we have a rudimentary 3-3-1-3 build-up structure in attack, but the rest of the plan seems mostly to revolve around letting our front 5 do their thing. Compare it to how City "pre-plans" and structures their play and there's a lot of difference. That's my take.
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firstly apologies and secondly I couldn’t of wrote these bits better
There was non of this in the first couple games and it’s slowly crept back in
 
SirScholes said:
great, so there is my point! They have rotated and tell me how has that worked out for them?
We are now above them
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We should be much higher than a team that hasn't done any transfers for a year. Ole was appointed before Lampard so he knew the team, the weaknesses and he had time to apply his ideas. He was given 150 millions to improve.
 
TheReligion said:
Disagree. You have to keep confidence and competition up. Fred, Mctominay and Ighalo should have all got more minutes in my opinion.
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I'm sure they'll all play in the EL but there's just too much at stake right now to give a couple of youth players or inconsistent players the platform to make mistakes to learn from. I'm all for them playing but we've got enough bad decision makers in the squad as it is.
 
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