Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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crossy1686 said:
If we start at Leicester with Lingard, McTomminay and Fred in midfield we won’t make the top 4. Same today, we would have lost.

As it stands, we’re third somehow and go into The last game with it completely in our hands
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This is true, but if we had rested Wan-Bissaka, Bruno and one of Lindelof or Maguire on Sunday, we'd be in exactly the same place as we are now in the cup but we would've won todays game. I firmly believe that and I was saying it for more than a week before the cup game.

I back Ole 100% - thrilled with the job he's done so far. But that cup selection was his biggest mistake to date.
 
Rash Decision said:
Oh I'm not the poster who said he was poor that you had replied to.

But I do think that although yes, he had his main talents out for large parts of the season, he hasn't really demonstrated a good enough ability to coach the team into something more than the sum of its parts. Where he deserves massive credit is in improving the individual performances of his attacking players, and enabling them to form little partnerships on the pitch. Where he has fallen short is developing a robust enough system that organises the players better and minimises our reliance on individual form and performances. When I watch our best performances post-lockdown, I see a platform for our attacking players to improvise, be dangerous and demonstrate flair. Very exciting. What I don't see however is a well-drilled side in a system that allows our team to perform to a minimum standard without relying on moments of improvisation or brilliance. Our inability to cope with pressing is a consequence of this. Players spend too long trying to spot the correct pass, when a drilled system would enable them to find the pass almost automatically. Our game plan for our first choice 11 looks a bit simplistic in that we have a rudimentary 3-3-1-3 build-up structure in attack, but the rest of the plan seems mostly to revolve around letting our front 5 do their thing. Compare it to how City "pre-plans" and structures their play and there's a lot of difference. That's my take.
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Well said. It's not personal lads, most of us like ole we just don't think he's a good enough football manager for this club if we want to be challenging for big trophies.
 
Zen86 said:
Quite easily, actually. People have short memories.
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... Pogba and Matic literally spent the second half walking around and doing nothing.

You cannot realistically think that McT or Fred would have been any worse...and if you do I'd suggest you're the one with the short memory.

At a very basic level they would have at least ran around.
 
led_scholes said:
We should be much higher than a team that hasn't done any transfers for a year. Ole was appointed before Lampard so he knew the team, the weaknesses and he had time to apply his ideas. He was given 150 millions to improve.
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They finished 3rd last season we finished 6th and we’ve had bad injuries, if we finish 3rd it’s a good season
 
SirScholes said:
They finished 3rd last season we finished 6th and we’ve had bad injuries, if we finish 3rd it’s a good season
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Chelsea aside, with regards to our window, the level of teams outside the top two, and our eventually points tally, I'd say third would be a lot better than I expected pre-Bruno, but overall, third wouldn't tell the full story. It wouldn't magically make me more confident about next season.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
... Pogba and Matic literally spent the second half walking around and doing nothing.

You cannot realistically think that McT or Fred would have been any worse...and if you do I'd suggest you're the one with the short memory.

At a very basic level they would have at least ran around.
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You mean the McT and Fred combination that has massively struggled against teams like West Ham all season? Short memories indeed.
 
SirScholes said:
firstly apologies and secondly I couldn’t of wrote these bits better
There was non of this in the first couple games and it’s slowly crept back in
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No worries!

I think in the first two games, we were helped by our opponents being very timid, and perhaps rusty or unfit after the lockdown. We dominated those games because firstly, our first choice midfielders are genuinely good on the ball, and secondly, they were afforded a lot of time and space. It was attack vs defence for large stretches of those games. I'm sure there was some sort of fear factor associated with facing a Pogba-Bruno duo as well. Of course freshness probably had something to do with it too.
 
Zen86 said:
You mean the McT and Fred combination that has massively struggled against teams like West Ham all season? Short memories indeed.
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Erm. You mean like our team today?

Fred and McT have played big parts in our season including games where we played well... To suggest otherwise is silly.

Again what exactly did Pogba/Matic do in the second half that meant they should stay on the pitch?
 
SirScholes said:
They finished 3rd last season we finished 6th and we’ve had bad injuries, if we finish 3rd it’s a good season
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These 3 positions were mere 6 points. So we spend 150 million just to cover a 6 point gap, while they spent nada and while our manager had been longer than their manager? So in order to win the league by your logic we have to spend roughly 600 millions?

They also had injuries.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Erm. You mean like our team today?

Fred and McT have played big parts in our season including games where we played well... To suggest otherwise is silly.

Again what exactly did Pogba/Matic do in the second half that meant they should stay on the pitch?
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Good old whataboutery. In all likelihood we could have brought Fred and McT on, they would have been ineffective, and you’d be sat here whining about the decision to bring them on. Move on.
 
led_scholes said:
These 3 positions were mere 6 points. So we spend 150 million just to cover a 6 point gap, while they spent nada and while our manager had been longer than their manager? So in order to win the league by your logic we have to spend roughly 600 millions?

They also had injuries.
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600mil to win the league? Maybe 300 id say maybe a bit more to challenge this years Liverpool

I don’t think they’ve had the same pogba and rashford were huge blows for us.

I don’t think Chelsea would be happy at missing out on top 4 Which is a very real possibility
 
crossy1686 said:
If we start at Leicester with Lingard, McTomminay and Fred in midfield we won’t make the top 4. Same today, we would have lost.

As it stands, we’re third somehow and go into The last game with it completely in our hands
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Why does it have to be all or nothing though? You can rotate Fred, Mctominay and Ighalo one for one and not cause any issues but also give key players extra days to recover.
 
If he took off either or both Pogba and Bruno at 1-1 people would be outraged if the game still finished a draw.
When Pogba came off against Southampton after playing dreadful lots were calling it a bad decision and factor as to why we drew the game.

You simply can't win with some of our fans
 
Zen86 said:
Good old whataboutery. In all likelihood we could have brought Fred and McT on, they would have been ineffective, and you’d be sat here whining about the decision to bring them on. Move on.
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So Pogba and Matic were effective? In doing what?

10/10 performances for the both of them.
 
So points-wise, whatever happens in the next match, we will be in the bottom 3 finish in the history of EPL. If we lose, it would be fewer points than with Moyes.

And here I got criticized for saying that it might well have been just another purple patch and there isn't much measurable success during the course of the entire season.
 
Bastian said:
Chelsea aside, with regards to our window, the level of teams outside the top two, and our eventually points tally, I'd say third would be a lot better than I expected pre-Bruno, but overall, third wouldn't tell the full story. It wouldn't magically make me more confident about next season.
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Agree. Before Wenger Arsenal finally falling out of top 4, Arsenal finished second in the Spurs' infamous finished third in 2 horse race with Leicester season. This team has the same feel about it as in we're yet to see a cohesive system being built where even so called squad players can fill in without the need to change the approach which affects the remained starters. We can stay ahead of our direct competitors for short term, but there is no guarantee we can outstrip them next time around. We're not the only one who can improve. And it doesn't look like we 're improving that much in some people's eyes like me.
 
Zen86 said:
Nope, but if you think bringing on McT and Fred were going to win the game for us today, then I wouldn’t recommend going into management ;)
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I've never said they would at any point... still probably would have ended in a draw. I simply said that being them on would a) not make us any worse and b) give Matic and Pogba much needed rest.

But clearly this is foolish as Pogba and Matic were so integral to our excellent second half performance.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
I've never said they would at any point... still probably would have ended in a draw. I simply said that being them on would a) not make us any worse and b) give Matic and Pogba much needed rest.

But clearly this is foolish as Pogba and Matic were so integral to our excellent second half performance.
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Relax and stop bitching, we’re in 3rd place right now
 
Revan said:
So points-wise, whatever happens in the next match, we will be in the bottom 3 finish in the history of EPL. If we lose, it would be fewer points than with Moyes.

And here I got criticized for saying that it might well have been just another purple patch and there isn't much measurable success during the course of the entire season.
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Moyes had RVp, Rooney, Nani,Vidic,Rio, evra
 
The_Midfielder said:
Moyes had RVp, Rooney, Nani,Vidic,Rio, evra
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I don't think Moyes deserved time, but again I don't get the talk about the squad he inherited. Yes they won the league previous season, but it was all down to Fergie and RVP brilliance first and foremost.

RVP spent most of Moyes season being injured.
Vidic and Rio were totally past it and moved on after this season, Vidic did nothing at Inter and Rio went to QPR a season then retired.
Nani, I mean the guy was also slaughtered for his inconsistency under Fergie anyway, and LVG came in and sold him.

I'll give you Evra and Rooney but Evra was also immediately moved on by LVG and he went to a league with much less intensity than PL.

This squad needed a massive overhaul and rebuilding. They made one last push for one more league title under SAF but that was the end of it. SAF left the rebuilding the job this time to the upcoming manager.

Of course Moyes wasn't the right person for the rebuilding project but this squad wasn't great at this time, period. Good names on paper, but most of them were past it.
 
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Feck this 4231 off. We don't have the mobility or the legs in midfield to handle the press or bring the ball forward. Too much space between Bruno and Pogba too.
 
Rash Decision said:
Don't think we have someone to play at the base of a midfield three though, as much as I would love to see us set up like Pep would.
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I mean I think Matic can play there, but ideally someone more mobile there would be great.

Still hate this double pivot though. Ole needs to bin it if he stays.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I mean I think Matic can play there, but ideally someone more mobile there would be great.

Still hate this double pivot though. Ole needs to bin it if he stays.
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Having both Pogba and Bruno so high up the pitch would leave too much space for Matic to cover, which probably means that Shaw would have to hang back. I agree that Pogba should ideally be played higher up though.
 
Web of Bissaka said:
Still obsess with 4231.

It's not effective when Bruno is not in his great form.
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Sat on the bench with his deer in the headlight look when it was obvious they were outnumbering Matic and Pogba to prevent the our defenders from being able to feed them the ball. Bruno should have dropped deeper to receive the ball instead of essentially playing left inside forward.
 
Adamsk7 said:
We look knackered and he's played the same players constantly but if I look at how it's been since we went on the unbeaten run and ask myself "would I have done any different? " then I think the answer may be no. He's got a set number of players that were playing great, whenever he brought anyone on, they were not playing remotely close to the same level so I think it was a case of "let's run them in to the ground and hope they get us over the line because I can't rely on anyone else to win matches" and I think although it is not a pretty sight right now as we've run out of steam and ideas, it will ultimately be the best decision.

Sooo many people in the match day threads have said lines "same 11, let's get the win" or something to that effect before a game because deep down we all know that our bench, whilst good players, can't really change games.

We're currently third and one more win will keep us there. If we get a draw, even that may be enough to finish third and if we finish in that position and we think about how we were in the first half of the season, then it's a bloody miracle!! I really don't care how we get over the line now, just so long as we do and I'm sure Ole is the same.

He's doing a good job. We can only really judge him after he's had another window and season here. It seems like a long time but he's only been our manager 18 months.
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Great post. Spot on with everything!
 
Rash Decision said:
Don't think we have someone to play at the base of a midfield three though, as much as I would love to see us set up like Pep would.
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Matic basically plays that role with Pogba wandering off anyway. I do agree we need someone more mobile in the centre though.

Temporary fix would be to just get Bruno to drop deeper and have a 3 man midfield.

We've made the same mistake for a few games now, Matic is isolated, way too deep, Pogba finds himself too deep and isolated with a press of multiple players around him, with Bruno far too ahead of him. We are constantly getting overrun in midfield and we are seeing no tactical changes at all, during the game or after.

It's almost as if Ole is hoping what worked is going to work again, when it's becoming very evident teams are finding out that we aren't quick or incisive enough with our passing and press resistance to get out of the middle of the park if they press us.

He needs to adapt
 
I
led_scholes said:
These 3 positions were mere 6 points. So we spend 150 million just to cover a 6 point gap, while they spent nada and while our manager had been longer than their manager? So in order to win the league by your logic we have to spend roughly 600 millions?

They also had injuries.
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In all honesty, there squad depth was still overall much better than ours even without having bought players due to a transfer ban.
 
Womp said:
Matic basically plays that role with Pogba wandering off anyway. I do agree we need someone more mobile in the centre though.

Temporary fix would be to just get Bruno to drop deeper and have a 3 man midfield.

We've made the same mistake for a few games now, Matic is isolated, way too deep, Pogba finds himself too deep and isolated with a press of multiple players around him, with Bruno far too ahead of him. We are constantly getting overrun in midfield and we are seeing no tactical changes at all, during the game or after.

It's almost as if Ole is hoping what worked is going to work again, when it's becoming very evident teams are finding out that we aren't quick or incisive enough with our passing and press resistance to get out of the middle of the park if they press us.

He needs to adapt
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Agree. City overcome their opponents' press with lots of clever movement to create passing options and numerical advantages all over the pitch. We seem to leave it to individual players to get themselves out of trouble too often.

I think Ole does sometimes come up with different tactical ideas for specific matches, e.g against City, but overall he doesn't seem to have many. His Plan A post-lockdown is his preferred 4231 with his first choice eleven. His Plan B is the defensive 352. There doesn't seem to be very much else. No adjustments to the midfield to improve control. No tweaks to the attacking approach for different opponents.
 
Can't fault Ole today. Put out more or less the team that has blown teams away since the restart, bar Shaw and Wan-Bissaka. The former injured and the latter tired.

Unfortunately, what Ole can't control is the sub-par performances some players put in today, and I feel this is why we are desperate to bridge that gap between our first XI and subs.

Today we desperately needed someone off the bench to change the game for us but we had no options.
 
Just saw his mutv interview post match and I feel annoyed that I wasted two hours watching this match . He basically said that considering the form that West ham were in you just can't beat such teams by a big margin and that a draw or 2-1 meant the same to us today
 
Rash Decision said:
But I do think that although yes, he had his main talents out for large parts of the season, he hasn't really demonstrated a good enough ability to coach the team into something more than the sum of its parts. Where he deserves massive credit is in improving the individual performances of his attacking players, and enabling them to form little partnerships on the pitch. Where he has fallen short is developing a robust enough system that organises the players better and minimises our reliance on individual form and performances. When I watch our best performances post-lockdown, I see a platform for our attacking players to improvise, be dangerous and demonstrate flair. Very exciting. What I don't see however is a well-drilled side in a system that allows our team to perform to a minimum standard without relying on moments of improvisation or brilliance. Our inability to cope with pressing is a consequence of this. Players spend too long trying to spot the correct pass, when a drilled system would enable them to find the pass almost automatically. Our game plan for our first choice 11 looks a bit simplistic in that we have a rudimentary 3-3-1-3 build-up structure in attack, but the rest of the plan seems mostly to revolve around letting our front 5 do their thing. Compare it to how City "pre-plans" and structures their play and there's a lot of difference. That's my take.
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Pretty much this.

Ole's man management has been a relevation but his tactics, pre and in game are so basic. I've said it many times but he's giving the players far too much 'freedom', which is essentially a lack of instructions.

I know it'd be slightly controversial but I think dropping Greenwood (which is harsh as he has been technically superb and makes the right choices) and playing Fred to push Pogba further forward against Leicester will be our best bet in terms of midfield control and creative play.

We'd lose some width but Pogba's ability to create space, carry the ball and spread the play should be enough for your Brunos, Rashfords and Martials to feed on.

But that's just too obvious and I fully expect the same 11 to play again.
 
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