Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[dirkey]

Yes, that is why Rashford played 90 mins.
Yes, and Pogba? A player who

A player who has started 2 games since September. Out since December?

Seriously, criticising Ole for starting him on the bench, we still have alot of football to play.

Yes, exactly. And people have no idea how he reacted after all the training and behind closed doors games. Maybe he wasn't 100% sharp? Who knows, we don't have all that info.

 

[UnitedSofa]

He needs to get top4 or his job should be taken away from him.

We are Man United, we can't be flirting with top 4 every year. So this is it, he gets top 4 this year and next year needs to make a serious challenge for the league.

We seriously need to stop living in the past otherwise we'll turn out like Liverpool fans.

We are simply not that good anymore. Accept it and move on.

That being said. We are well on the way to becoming challengers again, 12 games unbeaten, finding our rhythm again after a really bad patch, a few good signings and we are challengers again.

Sancho.
A striker
A CB or a LB

We're golden then.

 

[UnitedSofa]

This makes no sense, you are confusing fitness from an athletic standpoint and fitness from a medical standpoint. Both players will lack sharpness and feel for the game when they missed several months but in terms of fitness, you get in shape in a matter of weeks, Pogba has been training since February, he has been working on his fitness for almost 5 months while Rashford was unable to train and forced to rest for the better part of these 5 months. In terms of fitness they are most likely at the same level and a good one, the question is whether Rashford is fully healed because unlike Pogba, June was the optimistic return date.

There is no argument to make where Rashford playing 90 minutes makes more sense than Pogba playing 90 minutes, unless something happened during the week.

Yet it Ole started Pogba and Pogba hit the ground running and ended up on the ground like numerous Arsenal players over the last couple games and he gets injured for another 2 months, you'd all be slating him and saying he should've started on the bench.

Ole cannot win!

 

[romufc]

This makes no sense, you are confusing fitness from an athletic standpoint and fitness from a medical standpoint. Both players will lack sharpness and feel for the game when they missed several months but in terms of fitness, you get in shape in a matter of weeks, Pogba has been training since February, he has been working on his fitness for almost 5 months while Rashford was unable to train and forced to rest for the better part of these 5 months. In terms of fitness they are most likely at the same level and a good one, the question is whether Rashford is fully healed because unlike Pogba, June was the optimistic return date.

There is no argument to make where Rashford playing 90 minutes makes more sense than Pogba playing 90 minutes, unless something happened during the week.

When a player has been out for almost the entire season, he can do all the fitness he likes, no manager risks them for 90 mins.

Examples. RLC, Laporte, Bailly, Andre Gomes.

 

[JPRouve]

Yet it Ole started Pogba and Pogba hit the ground running and ended up on the ground like numerous Arsenal players over the last couple games and he gets injured for another 2 months, you'd all be slating him and saying he should've started on the bench.

Ole cannot win!

Have you read my post before responding? I haven't criticized Ole and won't, I have criticized the argumentation given by some poster because it's wrong. The potential answer to Ole's decision is in my last sentence.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

We seriously need to stop living in the past otherwise we'll turn out like Liverpool fans.

We are simply not that good anymore. Accept it and move on.

That being said. We are well on the way to becoming challengers again, 12 games unbeaten, finding our rhythm again after a really bad patch, a few good signings and we are challengers again.

Sancho.
A striker
A CB or a LB

We're golden then.

We are very much good enough for top 4

 

[romufc]

Yes, exactly. And people have no idea how he reacted after all the training and behind closed doors games. Maybe he wasn't 100% sharp? Who knows, we don't have all that info.

No, you see the fans know the best, they have all the medical records and have seen how he reacted.

Ole said before the game in his press conference, Pogba cannot play 90 mins.

Ole cannot win

This is the problem, we could have started the game with Pogba and another midfielder, got ripped in midfield and it would have been, we all know Pogba cannot defend, he hasnt played in so long why didn't he just start the midfield that done well for us when Pogba was out.

It was known for about a week before the game that Pogba won't start. We started the game, dominated the game and Pogba came and gave us an injection, I do not see what is wrong in that.

 

[fps]

I feel it's in keeping with Ole's style and the atmosphere he wants to build that when a team is winning and playing well the players keep their places. It wasn't a comment on Pogba, it was an endorsement of a winning team. It must be very frustrating as a player if you feel no matter how well you and the team is playing you will be out on your arse the second someone else becomes available. That can be very bad for morale. I understand why Ole did it for the Spurs game, but think Pogba could have come on at half-time, with Greenwood, given that Spurs weren't contesting that midfield area in a way that required both Fred and McTominay on the pitch.

 

[JPRouve]

When a player has been out for almost the entire season, he can do all the fitness he likes, no manager risks them for 90 mins.

Examples. RLC, Laporte, Bailly, Andre Gomes.

Again think about what you just wrote, that's what Ole did with Rashford but there is a reason why he could do it. Unlike the players that you mentioned Rashford had a few months where he could train while being fit, the reason players are generally not used for 90 minutes immediately is because the window is much shorter, they only have a few weeks before being propelled into the team, they don't have a mini preseason. Here due to the pandemic, some injured players have had months to regain full fitness. Pogba not starting is most likely due to something that happened recently.

And you do realize that Andre Gomes was out for less time than Rashford?

 

[romufc]

Again think about what you just wrote, that's what Ole did with Rashford but there is a reason why he could do it. Unlike the players that you mentioned Rashford had a few months where he could train while being fit, the reason players are generally not used for 90 minutes immediately is because the window is much shorter, they only have a few weeks before being propelled into the team, they don't have a mini preseason. Here due to the pandemic, some injured players have had months to regain full fitness. Pogba not starting is most likely due to something that happened recently.

And you do realize that Andre Gomes was out for less time than Rashford?

I am not talking about Rashford.... I am talking about Pogba.

 

[JPRouve]

I am not talking about Rashford.... I am talking about Pogba.

I know you are not and that's why your point has no legs to stand on. And I'm not criticizing Ole's decision, I'm simply making the point that your argumentation is weak.

Edit: And you did brought Rashford into it, in your initial response to my post.

 

[SuperiorXI]

He may not be fully fit to play the whole game, he may be rusty after not playing for an eternity and needs a soft start. You have a very simplistic view of things. Pogba good = play from start. In reality it's more complicated than that.

He may not be fully fit after all these months off? Nonsense.

You could say all the players are rusty.

The only valid reason would be if he picked up a knock in training, in which case fair enough, but there was no mention of that.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Yet it Ole started Pogba and Pogba hit the ground running and ended up on the ground like numerous Arsenal players over the last couple games and he gets injured for another 2 months, you'd all be slating him and saying he should've started on the bench.

Ole cannot win!

On what bases would he be slated?

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

We seriously need to stop living in the past otherwise we'll turn out like Liverpool fans.

We are simply not that good anymore. Accept it and move on.

That being said. We are well on the way to becoming challengers again, 12 games unbeaten, finding our rhythm again after a really bad patch, a few good signings and we are challengers again.

Sancho.
A striker
A CB or a LB

We're golden then.

You think liverpool got to where they are today by accepting they are not good and moving on? No. They kept plugging away until they found the right manager.

 

[Tom Cato]

It's very convenient how you completely ignored the fact that he played Rashford full 90 minutes despite him coming off a more serious injury than Pogba. If anything it was more logical to play Pogba from the start since he was in full training longer than Rashford.

Also if you remember Ole played Rashford against Wolves when he wasn't fit hence why he got a serious back injury worsened.

Like i said Pogba was projected to return around the time league was stopped whilst Rashford was projected to miss the EURO2020 due to his injury being quite severe.

Different injury. But the main takeaway is that Pogba has been away from football a LOT longer than Marcus Rashford. Pogba needs to earn his starting position just like everyone else. When we went off the break we were the hottest team in Europe, no one from that squad deserved to sit.

This notion that Pogba would have ruled the game if he started is just that, guesswork. What if we are down 1-0 and Pogba has to come off at 70 mins because he's exhausted? This is only pure speculation.

The team that started minus Rashford beat Manchester City 2-0 before the break, it wasn't a underwhelming squad. Rashford started because he's our main scoring threat and we're trying to achieve CL football. Paul Pogba started on the bench becaue he's been away from football nearly 10 months, and play in a position where the team has been excelling in 2020. There was no obvious route for him back to the team other than earning his keep after Bruno arrived.

I think Paul was phenomenal and should start against Sheffield. But he starts because he played phenomenal, not because his name is Paul Pogba.

 

[Grylte]

You think liverpool got to where they are today by accepting they are not good and moving on? No. They kept plugging away until they found the right manager.

And Klopp won the first season, did he?
Second?

 

[Yagami]

I thought Ole got the team spot on.

McTominay and Fred have been great in the big games so their form coupled with Pogba having not started a game since last year was reason enough to go that route.

James, despite not being as important as them in our big game victories, was a logical choice as his energy with and without the ball in the current circumstances would've been seen as vital.

I think the right time to start Pogba and Greenwood is against Sheffield. Greenwood as we'll have more of the ball, so less defensive pressure on him. Pogba just so he's been eased back in. We've already suffered from bringing him back too soon twice this season.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Different injury. But the main takeaway is that Pogba has been away from football a LOT longer than Marcus Rashford. Pogba needs to earn his starting position just like everyone else. When we went off the break we were the hottest team in Europe, no one from that squad deserved to sit.

This notion that Pogba would have ruled the game if he started is just that, guesswork. What if we are down 1-0 and Pogba has to come off at 70 mins because he's exhausted? This is only pure speculation.

The team that started minus Rashford beat Manchester City 2-0 before the break, it wasn't a underwhelming squad. Rashford started because he's our main scoring threat and we're trying to achieve CL football. Paul Pogba started on the bench becaue he's been away from football nearly 10 months, and play in a position where the team has been excelling in 2020. There was no obvious route for him back to the team other than earning his keep after Bruno arrived.

I think Paul was phenomenal and should start against Sheffield. But he starts because he played phenomenal, not because his name is Paul Pogba.

You might be making it more complicated than it needs to be. Just because we're playing rotational players doesn't mean we shouldn't win games or go on runs of form. And if there's an obvious key player coming back he doesn't need to earn his place, as that's the whole idea of being a key player.

I can understand if you say he was on the bench due to being out for so long, but to say he needed to perform better than Scott or Fred is redundant. They're rotation level players who filled in when necessary, they obviously won't be able to outperform a key player in the long run. And besides, even the players themselves probably won't want to be played instead of Pogba when their team's CL qualification is on the line. So although I understand the "competition for places" sentiment, it needs to be within reason.

 

[Tom Cato]

You might be making it more complicated than it needs to be. Just because we're playing rotational players doesn't mean we shouldn't win games or go on runs of form. And if there's an obvious key player coming back he doesn't need to earn his place, as that's the whole idea of being a key player.

I can understand if you say he was on the bench due to being out for so long, but to say he needed to perform better than Scott or Fred is redundant. They're rotation level players who filled in when necessary, they obviously won't be able to outperform a key player in the long run. And besides, even the players themselves probably won't want to be played instead of Pogba when their team's CL qualification is on the line. So although I understand the "competition for places" sentiment, it needs to be within reason.

The 'need to deserve a spot' is my own argument. Otherwise the message is "You can play as good as you want, but you will never take his spot".

The actual reason here is simply that Paul Pogba has been out with a injury since September 2019. He was never going to simply start the game after a short what was essentially a pre-season buildup in a team with players significantly more match fit than he is, despite the pandemic break.

 

[Greck]

We are very much good enough for top 4

I'd certainly back us over the likes of Chelsea, Sheffield, Wolves and Spurs if we play to our strength. Even Leicester. After Liverpool and City the rest of the PL teams are neck and neck in quality this year. Won't be surprised if many of those teams were nowhere in the hunt for CL spots next season

 

[Samid]

Spot on with everything today.

 

[Mainoldo]

Credit to him for picking the right bloody team. Even looked like he went away from the double pivot.

 

[Fracture90]

Spot on with everything today.

Yup, credit where credit is due, he did great today.

Only thing I'd hold against him was not subbing Matic off, but oh well.

 

[Dve]

Yup, credit where credit is due, he did great today.

Only thing I'd hold against him was not subbing Matic off, but oh well.

He didn´t play last game, so I see no problem with that. Matic was brilliant today, and I expect Fred and McTominay to start against Norwich.

 

[SirAnderson]

Brilliant from him.

Just watched Martial interview and when quizzed on which goal was the best, he said the 3rd was nice, but he knows the manager will be happy with the first 2 because its a proper number 9 goal. Nice coaching that!

 

[SteveW]

He's doing a great job. Destroyed a low block with ease today. Bruno looks like the best signing in years. We only concede goals when De Gea decides to. I really like what he's building here and I hope more of the supporters on here can get behind him.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

The 4231 is where he wants to go and its starting to take shape. Still a few olayers needed, but I can now see the vision and based on the performance today, I'm excited to see where it goes.

I do wonder where we'd be if we bought Bruno in the summer, though.

 

[Shark]

Full credit where it's due, perfect lineup and very professional performance from us tonight in a match that many were backing some bite from a wounded Sheffield United. You even look at the depth he's brought us on the bench also and it's difficult dispute that he hasn't built us up from the rubble of our previous three managers.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Yup, credit where credit is due, he did great today.

Only thing I'd hold against him was not subbing Matic off, but oh well.

He didn't sub him off cause he's going to be rested in the FA cup

 

[Fracture90]

He didn´t play last game, so I see no problem with that. Matic was brilliant today, and I expect Fred and McTominay to start against Norwich.

I'd be feeling far safer if he got last 20 minutes rest so that he can start against Norwich. They are one of the teams that tene to sit deep against stronger sides.

 

[Striker10]

It's like watching United of old. Still feel defensively at times we could react quicker but Oles done a very good job. If we can bring Sancho in etc, this could develop into a very good squad. Hopefully we win a trophy this season and use it to build upon next season but if we don't, I think we're in VERY good shape. The players respond to Ole and people should respect that.

 

[rotherham_red]

Funny that this thread isn't anywhere near as active as it was on Friday and over the weekend.

Why, it's almost as if some of us here are guilty of having an agenda... Perish the thought(!)

 

[Yagami]

This was why I was fine with his team selection against Spurs.

Ease Pogba (& Greenwood) in, then unleash them against a fatigued Sheffield. Ole got it spot on again, imo.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Lots still to prove, but we played well today. Tactically off at times with the press though. Although we have been good at pressing in other games.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Good start after the break, picking up where we left off after Bruno arrived. We had some slick passing and linkup play on display today, and the GD has been growing well over the last ten odd games. Promising signs, hope we get CL to strengthen the squad further.

 

[Mainoldo]

This was why I was fine with his team selection against Spurs.

Ease Pogba (& Greenwood) in, then unleash them against a fatigued Sheffield. Ole got it spot on again, imo.

If we got 6 points which we should have done. We would have been on level points With Chelsea right now.

Just saying.

 

[AshRK]

If we got 6 points which we should have done. We would have been on level points With Chelsea right now.

Just saying.

Spurs away is not equivalent to Sheffield at home. There was no guarantee starting pogba would have fetched 3 points. He was coming back after a long lay off so it wasn't that bad of a decision to bring him on as a sub. Not starting matic probably was a bigger mistake but then Mctominay always performs like a beast in big games so again not a bad call.

 

[Yagami]

If we got 6 points which we should have done. We would have been on level points With Chelsea right now.

Just saying.

Before the break, I expected us to beat Spurs, but, after such a long break, I don't think a point is that bad in the current circumstances.

Overall, I think we've made a good start to the return of the season.

 

[Mainoldo]

Spurs away is not equivalent to Sheffield at home. There was no guarantee starting pogba would have fetched 3 points. He was coming back after a long lay off so it wasn't that bad of a decision to bring him on as a sub. Not starting matic probably was a bigger mistake but then Mctominay always performs like a beast in big games so again not a bad call.

Spurs are crap we should have beat them. As our best XI proved today. Spurs will never play like that under Mr you know who.

That was our problem too we set up like it was a big game. It wasn’t a big game.

 

[Mainoldo]

Before the break, I expected us to beat Spurs, but, after such a long break, I don't think a point is that bad in the current circumstances.

Overall, I think we've made a good start to the return of the season.

I hear you but I think that was the wrong mindset by us. This Spurs is no better than Sheffield. We gave them too much respect...It would have been harder being at Spurs ground but we could have easily made them look like Sheffield today.. let’s be honest they wasn’t going to attack us was they.