And yet he most likely consider fowler a legend or many others at that shite club who hasn't seen a league title in 30 yrs that term, where as Ole has earned his as a player, maybe never as a manager but will be always a UTD legend for his years of service and lacking of bitching.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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They have to be troll accounts, surely? Nobody can surely be that delusional about our current managerial situation. Either way I hope we never sign a “legend” of the club again unless he has already achieved substantial success at the highest level, because this romanticism rubbish needs to die. Plus, I don’t think I can take another hiring like this for my own sanity.
It obviously is.
It was exactly the same under previous managers, though, so it's nothing new. Irrelevant crap is used as a stick to beat the manager with - which is very much redundant, as there are always plenty of legitimate sticks to beat the fecker with - but that doesn't seem to be enough for some people.
Listening to a Liverpool fan about what constitutes legend will make you cross eyed
Well, yes - in terms of sheer results, sure.
That wasn't what was being discussed, though - but rather the fact that we don't look particularly well drilled as a team. We didn't look well drilled under Mourinho either.
Besides, in terms of sheer results, Ole would have to be challenging for the league at this very point in order to outdo Mourinho's "peak" - which is utterly unrealistic. And shows that just looking at results is more than a bit pointless. We finished 2nd under Mourinho but our campaign hardly compared - at all - to a genuinely good/promising runner-up season (which is what Liverpool had under Klopp last season, to state an obvious, if somewhat extreme, example).
Sigh...
Cringe Cringe.....
"Is there better or higher credentialed current manager's around who wants to coach United? Probably yes." - Yes, there absolutely is. So why would you not get them?
"Could they do better job right here and right now with what Ole has today? Debatable/Who the f knows/Doubt it/maybe an extra 4 points/woopty doo daa" - Yes? That's why they are considered higher credentialed and higher skilled, what you are basically saying is that a manager has zero effect on a team, except maybe an extra four points which is pointless in the grand scheme of things, so why would we bother going after the worlds best and most progressive managers, this is one of the dumbest aspects of this post. Why do you think the likes of Queiroz failed at Madrid when he had Figo, Ronaldo, Beckham, Makelele etc, by what you say the team should have just won everything itself with world class players, but they didn't, so why not, i mean Queiroz was just a manager he had no effect on the team, right? Idiotic.
"Regardless of this has Ole got us on the right path? Yes." - Uh, where exactly has he got us on the right path? We are 11 points from the relegation zone and Liverpool have more than double our points total.. this is the right path is it? The mind absolutely boggles, please, explain how Ole has improved us, where is this magic
"As a young manager at the same point in his career as Jurgen Klopp approaching his second season at Dortmund, is it fair to say Ole can also improve like many before him? Yes." - Seriously when will this Klopp comparison end, it is literally the epitome of delusion to the highest degree here. Whilst Ole was at the reserves, Klopp was dragging up Mainz from nowhere to mid table Bundesliga, and then when he moved to Dortmund, he won 2 Bundesliga titles as a massive underdog to the likes of Bayern, the same years Ole won 2 titles in the Norwegian league, Ole then went on to win one Norwegian cup whilst Klopp won a German Cup and became Champions League runners up, a constant upwards progression, unlike Ole who, after winning the two leagues, did nothing for the rest of his time at Molde. Ole then moved onto Cardiff, where he relegated them, and then had an awful record in the Championship, before being sacked. Then guess what, he went back to Molde and he did NOTHING from 2015-2019, where we then hired him, where as Klopp has done what he has done with Liverpool. Ole went backwards and got worse, Molde have actually got better and won the league since he left. No, Ole won't improve to be like Klopp, even when Klopp wasn't as great as he is now with players that aren't as good as he has now, you could point to evidence on the pitch that things were looking up, namely, his teams obviously have a way of playing football, do ours? No, we do not, our football looks bereft of ideas and any coherent plan, hell our set pieces at both ends of the pitch are absolutely atrocious, that after splurging £80mill on Maguire as well. Dire.
Your sarcastic comments about win percentage and Klopp being the 'best manager on earth' lack any kind of context whatsoever, which comes as no surprise from somebody so obviously deluded. Look at what I said above, what do any of those win percentages mean, i mean you even said it yourself, regardless of his win percentages there, the guy RELEGATED Cardiff, and then continued to repeat the same relegation form in the Championship after MILLIONS of pounds of investment in an entirely new squad that HE wanted.
Ole won 2 Norwegian titles and a Norwegian cup, relegated Cardiff, played god awful in the Championship, then spent another 4/5 years at Molde doing absolutely nothing, Molde got better and won a title after he left, he came to us, had an initial new manager bounce, then had one of the worst downward spirals we've seen, even with players like Pogba etc mind, so can't talk about injury depleted there, and now we are massively inconsistent, play mostly garbage football, lack any kind of creative spark, have a massively depleted squad that he sanctioned, played players when they shouldn't have been playing and aggravating their injuries even more, has perhaps the worst in game management some people have see, I mean I could go on, but don't worry guys, behind the scenes, culture and uh, stuff! Fact is he did buy a couple of good players, even though the jury is still out, but this nonsense everyone talks about with culture and reboot literally ANY other manager can do, provided we pick the right one, Ole doesn't have some secret sauce to it because he used to play for us, that's fairy tale romantic nonsense.
Your entire post is basically hoping and praying that a manager, who doesn't really have anything to back it up with, becomes a title winning manager, despite ALL the evidence pointing elsewhere, you cannot point to a single shred of evidence that backs up your claims, where as I can point to evidence that backs up mine, so then if your backing isn't based on tradition and romanticism because he used to play for us, what is it on, because he bought 3 players in the transfer market? Come on, your head is buried in the sand and you are refusing to accept it because you think it makes you a "real" fan and sets you apart from us "fake" fans who only want to complain
Can you point to a better, coherent style of football? Nope
Can you point to great tactical nous? Nope
Can you point to brilliant in game management and use of subs? Nope
Can you point to an upturn in results? Nope
Can you point to excellent squad management? Nope
Can you point to our players playing much better under him? Bar 1 or 2. Nope
Can you say any other big club would love to have him as manager, pre United, right now, or after he leaves United? Nope
Can you compare any of his achievements or skill to most managers at big clubs right now? Nope, the only two you could point to are Lampard and Arteta
Can you say the squad is in harmony and all things are looking rosy on the inside? Apparently not according to Fred
So, to sum up, you are seeing things that do not exist, with zero evidence to back it up, and the only thing you have to support what you are saying is a, praying at best, connection to Klopp's first years at Liverpool. Your opinion is we should blindly support any manager for years, regardless of how he's done, is doing, because that's the "right thing to do" and something about "United DNA" no doubt, and we should just throw as much money as possible at them until they make something stick, because that's the only problem, not the managers skill or anything.
We should stop whinging and get on with it apparently, you aren't a real fan, Top Red's like me have patience, this ISN'T THE SIR ALEX ERA, every manager in world football needs to earn time at a club, every manager needs to show something, like actually show it, not throw around words like culture and rebuild, if you are rebuilding, show something, buying 3 players and saying oh yeah rebuild, whilst your football on the pitch is dire isnt a "rebuild". Why are fans so obsessed with pretending we are some kind of superior club that cannot fire managers before about 5 seasons worth of time first, it's ridiculous, NO big club is run like this.
Can present something beyond "well we just see it and you don't" or the typical buzzwords like "culture" "rebuild" "United DNA" etc
I'm betting you cannot.
Burn.
This is definitely true. A lot of revision and hindsight with Klopp currently.
He done really well with Jose's squad for 3 months. So if he had Messi and Mbappe in one team even Moyes would get a tune out of them. By the way i'm no Ole apologist, but some posters go overboard to ridicule the manager. He's been awful don't get me wrong but an XI of world class players including Messi and Mbappe would dramatically change any managers fate.
Great post. Mamba mentality!
Good post but you shouldn't waste so much time replying to clearly troll users.
No one said Klopp was perfect or that Liverpool were perfect from the very first moment. But very early on you could see the improvement in their football and where they were trying to head. Yes, they were defensively weak, and things changed dramatically when they went and signed a top class centerhalf and a top class goalkeeper. Us, we could sign Messi and Ronaldo and I don't think we'll be good.
That's my issue with Solskjaer. The football. I had no expectations this season in terms of results. It was all about building something that can be further improved in time. But I don't see the team and think 'well, if we just had more quality in this or that position, we'll be really good'. I think we'll be better, but not that better, as we're handicapped by a mediocre manager.
He said we need one more year, because finishing in top 8 with this squad is overachieving.
The comparison was started by Ole Out crowd, I have no idea why we are constantly being compared to Liverpool who are blowing everyone else away in the league, I'm assuming it was to make him look bad but then we end up putting Klopp's first two seasons under a microscope and suddenly it doesn't look that far apart from Ole. No wonder you guys are going mental.These comparisons with Klopp & Pep are absolutely mental
"It took Klopp 4 years and 18 first team signings to get Liverpool to a good level." This is simply untrue. I don't know what it is with many of the Ole-in crowd and facts but there seems to be a disconnect between the two and a reluctance to accept facts and truth and statistics. In less than a year, Klopp had Liverpool in the League Cup final and the Europa League final; in less than 2 years he had them in the Champions League final. In less than 3 years, he had them in 2nd place and winning the Champions League; in less than 4 years, he will have them winning the Premier League and maybe more. Facts and statistics show that it did not take anywhere near 4 years to get Liverpool to a "good level." They were at a good level in less than a year; they were playing excellent football in under 2 years.
There are so incredible many factual mistakes here I don’t know where to begin. So I won’t..
There is even more levels of context missing. So much in fact that it’s just pointless driveling. I mean. If you are going to type all that up, why not have the self respect to at least do some research?
I don’t understand posts like these, and there are loads of them. Why not brake it down in what translate on the pitch? I mean, it is a lot of wrong going on there. But there is something right also.
Maybe if we started to discuss that, then maybe (I’m not optimistic..) people would get a more context into their argument. As it stand now, this is looking the most plastic fans forum out there. I read better football discussion in the championship forums for Christ sake
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No it is not untrue. It is a fact, and as most facts there are context, not for and against..
I don’t know if you watch the German league. But it is a highly entertaining one to watch. One of the reasons is they play with very high risk.
Liverpool had an easy transition going forward with K. They where already an attack team. That was the easy part for him. The harder part was tighten it at the back. And getting balance. That took time. Both with signings and team cohesion. Once they got the midfield working, it slowly came together.
Klopp has now set the benchmark in premier league, and with benchmarks comes comparisons. No one is comparing shoe sizes, but what it took to set that benchmark. The same goes for Guardiola.He was laughed at his first season, but then later got City play some of the most beautiful football seen in premiership. Again. Not shoes, but benchmarks.
Now look at how these managers played football before coming to UK. Look at the players they got out and who they brought in.
This is what is interesting with comparing. Not who had the most points and the coolest glasses. And it is not comparing pedigree with either. It is just looking at the benchmarks set. I don’t understand why this is so difficult to understand for some.
I didn't say He wouldn't get carried by those players (aka wouldn't do 'well') but He will certainly be the one who looks out of place. Preventing the team from reaching it's maximum potential. He's no Pep nor Klopp nor SAF. Just trying to point out that the 'He has shit players' arguments don't really make sense as it's hard to see him doing better tactically with better players. Relying on good players to carry a manager is a backwards mentality. We're 8th and it's pathetic. Jose and Van Gaal got the stick, why should it be any different for Ole?
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Oh...so you knew many Liverpool supporters who wanted Klopp out after having just made it to the Champions League final? Really? Because at the end of that 2nd year, they had just played in the Champions League final after having made it to the League Cup final and the Europa League final the previous year under Klopp. You must have different friends than me because I don't know a single Liverpool supporter who wanted Klopp out after the 2nd year (or the first or third or soon to be fourth) but it all sounds good if you are trying to make excuses for Ole.
It's not untrue? Right, so making it to the finals of the Europa League and the Champions League in less than 2 years is "not playing good football." Sure. As for your last 5 or 6 paragraphs, I have no idea what in hell you're talking about. I don't give a shite about the bundesliga or your shoe size argument; we're talking about a comparison the Ole-in crowd keep wanting to make between Ole and Klopp and we're talking about someone falsely stating that it took 4 years for Klopp to have Liverpool at a "good level" - not great or exceptional level but "good level." This is not a true statement; it is a false statement used to back an agenda and I'm tired of it.
I hate seeing this 'rebuild' nonsense over and over as if it's some kind of original idea that Ole is implementing. We've been rebuilding ever since LVG took charge and gutted Fergie's last squad. It was labelled as a 'process' and a 'philosophy' that would take time to implement.Jose then 'rebuilt' United over two seasons with 11 signings and a clear and obvious move away from LVG's possession based football . Those rebuilds didn't work. There have been many big clubs that have had many many years of 'rebuilds' that didn't work either but it's about getting it right eventually, which certain clubs have done.
Ole is doing his own thing now but it's not something new, it isn't his trademark and also there's a lot of mounting evidence that he (and the club) are not doing it very well. Unless results and performances change dramatically before the end of the season I don't see why he should get the benefit of another few seasons. A good battle for top 4 and a strong cup run should be the absolute minimum for the rest of the season (and some would argue that's setting a pretty low bar)
Ole is doing his own thing now but it's not something new, it isn't his trademark and also there's a lot of mounting evidence that he (and the club) are not doing it very well. Unless results and performances change dramatically before the end of the season I don't see why he should get the benefit of another few seasons. A good battle for top 4 and a strong cup run should be the absolute minimum for the rest of the season (and some would argue that's setting a pretty low bar)
You won't begin because you can't actually point out out his "factual mistakes." I mean it wouldn't be that hard to do so if they are there. You won't point out his mistakes because there are none. You know why? Because he is actually using facts and statistics and the Premier League table; you know...quantifiable things that the Ole-in crowd just can't stand. For them, blind faith in Ole is better. We're progressing. Never mind that our league position and our points total and win percentage says otherwise.There are so incredible many factual mistakes here I don’t know where to begin. So I won’t..
There is even more levels of context missing. So much in fact that it’s just pointless driveling. I mean. If you are going to type all that up, why not have the self respect to at least do some research?
I don’t understand posts like these, and there are loads of them. Why not brake it down in what translate on the pitch? I mean, it is a lot of wrong going on there. But there is something right also.
Maybe if we started to discuss that, then maybe (I’m not optimistic..) people would get a more context into their argument. As it stand now, this is looking the most plastic fans forum out there. I read better football discussion in the championship forums for Christ sake
Dont know why it’s debatable. He’s more of a legend than Andy Cole. Therefore he’s just a cult hero really.
Oh those inconvenient "sheer results." Everything is great except for those pesky "sheer results." It's like someone has just said to you "Scarlett Johansson is really hot." And you're like "I guess in terms of sheer beauty, she's okay if you're into a beautiful face and incredible body but..." Or "Bill Gates is really rich" and you're response "well I guess if were are talking about sheer cash and assets and property, yes but..." Football is about results. We are 8th. We're on course for 53 points. We have a win percentage in the 30s. In terms of sheer results, Ole is doing a piss poor job and we are having a very poor season by any metric including, most importantly, "sheer results."
That's fair, but I'm not really talking about Ole as I'm not sold on him at all. All I'm saying is with regards to Klopp, his destination wasn't evident from early on. Of course you could see what he was trying to do, but question marks remained over whether it would work in the league as well as it did in cup competitions.
For instance, I would say that Liverpool started winning a lot more after Klopp changed the very high-intensity style he initially brought into the club, to a more conservative one. That change is something Van Gaal has talked about being necessary for the EPL, but it wasn't a given Klopp would have done something like that.
I'd say that the fact that the style he started out with is different from the one he's using now shows it wasn't a straight journey, where you could describe the destination from the very beginning.
In terms of your general point though, I do agree that performances are what to look out for as opposed to pure results.
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it’s pretty much how I feel about him:
It's what he's mostly remembered for. He was a decent player. Being a "super-sub" makes up a substantial part of his “legend”. Growing up no one was saying "I want to be like Ole Gunnar Solskjaer" around my sides. Am I supposed to get here and act like he was a world class player or something?
Decent player that had a wonderful moment for the club. Terrible manager. Seems a fair, non-conflating, assessment of Ole the player and Ole the manager.
Of course Solskjaer is a legend of the club, it’s ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
He scored lots of goals for the club, won loads of trophies, was an important part of the treble winning side.
His failings as a manager here shouldn’t take away from his success as a player.
He scored lots of goals for the club, won loads of trophies, was an important part of the treble winning side.
His failings as a manager here shouldn’t take away from his success as a player.
Again, I was replying to a particular point made by a particular poster.
But, yeah, expecting people to pay attention to what's actually being addressed is clearly folly - so apologies.
Ole is shite - and so forth. Carry on.
This is fantastic.
Challenge any fan to constructively support Solskjaer without any sentiments, hypothetical thesis and blind hope and they've got absolutely nothing to go on. If your going to compare Solskjaer and Klopp your better off using an analogy between someone like Tony Pulis and SAF. The gulf between Klopp and Ole is large enough for there to exist some level of respect to not even mention them in the same breath of one another.
The second I see someone invoke the name of Klopp (or worse, Sir Alex) to defend Ole I instantly stop reading. It's an 'argument' that's been shot to bits so many times I've lost count.
Talk about desperation.
Talk about desperation.
Molde got better when he left them and you can't even argue that manager of Molde was his best stint as he's been sacked everywhere else. I wouldn't even say he's an average manager. I don't give a flying feck about the quality of the squad or injuries, if there is still no visible signs of progression in regards to the quality of our football after over a year, you need to get fecked off. Especially when our results are shite alongside it, too.
behave.Stab in the dark here but I’m guessing possible difference is Klopp didn’t make Liverpool worse than they’d been for 30 years.
He took over in October 2015. They got to the CL final in May 2018. He was there almost 3 full seasons by then. They finished 4th in 2018 and were honestly nothing special finishing 25 points behind.
Please get your facts right if you are going to go on these little rants.
He took over a shite roster that had finished in 6th place the year prior and was left in 10th, ironically, and still had them playing exciting football which is why he was afforded time and patience by the fans and club.
It had become clear to anyone with eyes that he would be successful given further investment/more quality midway through his first full season given the leaps in performance on the pitch that they had under him and the development of an identifiable and coherent playing style/identity.
You conveniently left out the small fact that he made it to a CL final during the season they came in 4th...
It was literally the 2nd sentence of my post. Why can none of you read?
Just adding onto your points:
Season of Klopp's takeover: 8th finish, made 2 cup finals including the Europa. Even though their PL finish was not great, you could clearly tell the change in the way their whole team played. They were already starting to play exciting football with the mediocre squad they had although their defense was leaking goals and their league results were inconsistent.
1st full season: 4th on 76 points with 6 losses in the league (22-10-6)
2nd full season: 4th on 75 points with 5 losses in the league (21-12-5), runner up in the CL
3rd full season: 2nd on 97 points with 1 loss in the league (30-7-1), champions in the CL
4th full season: Guaranteed 1st place with likely record points that may potentially never be broken in our lifetime. CL results pending but looking like they will be going far again
On the other hand...
Ole's first full season, we're looking to barely clear 50 points in the league with 9-8-8 record and sitting in the 8th place in a season Spurs and Arsenal started out terribly and replaced their managers while Chelsea with their inexperienced new manager lost their best player and had a transfer ban during the summer. We are not playing any better than we were a year ago. There is no sign of improvement in the way we are playing.
But it's all good. Ole has the United DNA and he'll be the next Klopp as long as he's given more time. Because he's a nice guy who scored that goal.
By the way, Everton are above us in the table currently, they were pretty much looking like a relegation candidate before Ancelotti took over.
I'll be very glad when he goes but I will be a little sad as well - for the man and not the manager. Will miss seeing him but will be glad in not seeing him struggle.
Why would you take it out when it actually happened? That makes no sense at all
Who would've thought a good manager can get good results from a half decent (at best) squad
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