Wages will have though, I mean there's hardly any Polish builders left!
Old Trafford revamp/could be torn down and rebuilt according to Glazer plans
- Thread starter GE
- Start date
Yes wage increases is a very fair and true point, and although most will still say they’re still not enough, the cost cascades to the client ultimately. £2bn is still a reality stretch though :-)
This old stadium has had 14 new stands and 18 new pictches. How can it be the same stadium then? Well here's a picture of it what more proof do you want.
The Bank Street site stayed undisturbed until the late 1990s when it disappeared under part of the Velodrome built for the 2002 Commonwealth Games.
It’s almost next door to the Emptyhad
The indoor BMX centre now occupies the site of the original Bank Street pitch.The Bank Street site stayed undisturbed until the late 1990s when it disappeared under part of the Velodrome built for the 2002 Commonwealth Games.
It’s almost next door to the Emptyhad
They could swap sites then. BMX hasn't been around long enough to be historical
Hmm. I get the feeling that some fans who have maybe only visited it occasionally (if ever) genuinely believe that it’s a historic building.
Absolutely!
It will take some ingenuity though. The site is constrained not only by the railway to the south, but the canal to the north and the Freightliner terminal to the west. The land on which the latter stands is, I believe, owned by the club. Presumably the terminal has it on a long lease; it’s incredibly busy, as anyone who has witnessed the long slow freight trains trundling through Oxford Road throughout the day will know. Relocating it would probably cost as much as a new stadium.
Ah ok! I think it’s got badminton courts as well.
Has to be a 100k seater IMO with the new Stretford End being the biggest, single tier stand in European football. It'd be amazing.
Etihad has a 53K capacity whilst the new Goodison Park is going to hold just over 50K. Don’t we have more season ticket holders than what those two stadiums can hold? If we had a Wembley or something similar nearby then that would be ideal.
If we can still play at OT whilst the new stadium is being built nearby then fine but not sure if it’ll be safe with the whole near surrounding area filled with construction work everywhere.
I guess time will tell what happens.
Not a chance, Man Utd would play their home games in Liverpool
I believe we have 50k season ticket holders.
Even then still too small. When you factor in folk with official memberships & away fans as well (cup games, away teams are entitled up to 10% of the capacity).
I am wondering about two things:
Almost all new stadiums are fantastically comfortable, always acceptable lines to get food or something to drink in half time, going to the toilet — but is it just me or are these new stadiums really silent?
I’ve not seen a ton of live games lately, but when I’ve gone (not to Old Trafford), the sound level just haven’t been there at all.
Is it just me sitting in different areas of the stadium nowadays? Like OT still sounds really loud on TV.
I would be very very careful long term if building a stadium that takes away the noise. For someone going to football for 20 years, it’s probably comfortable. But to fall in love with the game — that mass hypnosis of 70,000 people roaring like crazy about something is what really makes people fall in love with it in the first place.
2. There are safe standing sections at OT nowadays, right? Are they working well? If they built a new arena — could it be incorporated better?
This is another thing I don’t get with these new stadiums. Like experiencing the yellow wall at Dortmund as a bigger experience many times than watching Dortmund play in the Bundesliga. You pay to experience that, and of course there need to be a game played for it to work, but you get my point. Union Berlin’s games are a fantastic experience.
The supporter culture is 100% part of the experience. How on earth can you build a stadium without focusing on enabling that supporter culture to thrive?
This is a thing I think could be done much much better in the future with new arenas, and something I think will come too. Nothing else make sense.
Almost all new stadiums are fantastically comfortable, always acceptable lines to get food or something to drink in half time, going to the toilet — but is it just me or are these new stadiums really silent?
I’ve not seen a ton of live games lately, but when I’ve gone (not to Old Trafford), the sound level just haven’t been there at all.
Is it just me sitting in different areas of the stadium nowadays? Like OT still sounds really loud on TV.
I would be very very careful long term if building a stadium that takes away the noise. For someone going to football for 20 years, it’s probably comfortable. But to fall in love with the game — that mass hypnosis of 70,000 people roaring like crazy about something is what really makes people fall in love with it in the first place.
2. There are safe standing sections at OT nowadays, right? Are they working well? If they built a new arena — could it be incorporated better?
This is another thing I don’t get with these new stadiums. Like experiencing the yellow wall at Dortmund as a bigger experience many times than watching Dortmund play in the Bundesliga. You pay to experience that, and of course there need to be a game played for it to work, but you get my point. Union Berlin’s games are a fantastic experience.
The supporter culture is 100% part of the experience. How on earth can you build a stadium without focusing on enabling that supporter culture to thrive?
This is a thing I think could be done much much better in the future with new arenas, and something I think will come too. Nothing else make sense.
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Yeah you just would have to stop selling membership for the season.
Season Tickets including the cups are opt-in which was a change made by fan demand. So I don't think it would be too bad.
Etihad's got a capacity of 53,400. We've got 50K season ticket holders, and we need to make 3000 tickets available for away fans in the PL. So I think that's fairly okay. For the cups, it's 10% of the capacity. So you'd hope around 2K of our season ticket holders opt out of the cups (circa 4% which isn't unrealistic).
Might be weird viewing for that lot seeing their stadium at full capacity on a daily basis.
Again you've made some very good valid points. Suppose will need to wait and see what our potential new owners decide to do. If it's possible, we might still be able to play at OT whilst a renovation or a re-build is taking place. Similar to what Real Madrid have done whilst their ground is getting renovated. Seeing how that is going to look when it's complete, that is the sort of standard that we need to meet as it looks incredible!
There's not much between 1b and 2b? Huh?
I go every week and I genuinely see it as an iconic stadium steeped in history.
Yes of course it has been renovated plenty of times, but in another post I referred to Green Bay in the US whose stadium is 100% iconic but it's still been renovated a few times.
It is not a odd concept that a lot of fans, even those that go every week, see it as a part of our identity as a club. It's a proper football stadium.
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US sports teams often build stadiums within yards of the existing one so safety shouldn't be a major issue, the current Yankee stadium in New York and Busch stadium in St Louis are recentish examples
Number of games is also a huge thing. I am not an expert, but think they play like 6 home games per year in college football.
Not surer about college football, think it's more than that but @Carolina Red is a college football fan so he'll know
NFL plays 18 regular season games so that's 9 per season + playoffs
Baseball on the other hand plays 162 games - so that's 81 home games + the playoffs, that takes a bit of dedication!
That is a lot of work required for a refurbishment and would require us to move in the mean time whereas we could begin construction adjacent and over time replace the current stadium slowly.
I get that people are attached, I remember being a wee lad and moving to a new house. But over time that house became a home. It's time to let go and embrace progress. Lest we be left behind. Heck, uefa don't even ask us to host their finals anymore.
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Not much difference, just a cool billion quid.
You know how much a billion is right?
Not much difference, just a cool billion quid.
You know how much a billion is right?
A) It's less than a billion. Because he (and the reports) said the rennovation will cost "over" 1 billion and the new stadium "less than" 2 billion.
B) If someone is in a position to spend the billions required to buy the club as well as over a billion to rennovate the stadium, it's reasonable to assume they would probably have the means to afford the extra hundreds of millions to opt for a new stadium instead if it made long term commercial sense. If they didn't have that capacity, we should have concerns about their ownership.
No as in OT will still be up and running if we were to build next to it.
If we use Russian steel and Russian concrete, will cost be brought down to 1B?
I don't think this is a correct interpretation. Take World Cup as example, final participants only get 20-30% each, it meant FIFA, sponsors, collected the remaining 40%. Seat wise it will be east south west north stands, PLUS the corporate box. How much "stand tickets' are withheld for "non-fans", is purely a corporate policy.
By Corporate Box, we generally mean the Box surrounding the stadium, excluding the TV / radio commentator box. Plus a block of seats in front of each Corporate Box. This is because while you enjoy your pawn salad inside the box, you prefer watching the game in normal seating. Some of the smaller Corporate box might have audience sitting inside without external seating.
My bet is Corporate tickets are 5000-8000 only. Lindelof's GF complained her small box cost her 10K+ a season, so a large box might be in the region of 100K or more.
I still puzzled on the price tag, why Spurs stadium cost 1B, a slightly bigger one, mind you the construction cost is the same, just taller and deeper, would double the original quote.
Anyway, this is why Glazer is looking for external investment, because borrowing from bank is no longer an option, so better be equity investment. And if you are going to invite equity investment, might as well open the door wider, 20% to 100%, allow new investor to decide which path to choose.
You do realise 800m quid for example is 800 millions?
A staggering sum of money for anyone already buying the club for 5bn and investing hundreds of million in playing personnel.
It didn’t say that though did it. It said north of £1b, that’s over £1b to renovate or just under £2b to start from scratch. Who knows what the exact figures are. What I’m saying is if it’s coming down to a difference of a few £100m then it would obviously work out better in the long run to just build a new stadium. Still staggering amounts of money of course but whoever does take us over certainly won’t be short of a penny and would have factored in the stadium situation when purchasing the club.
This thread just makes me want to listen to the Sugababes at this point.
It didn’t say it’s £1b and £2b though. It said it’s north of £1b and just under £2b, so that means it’s over £1b, by how much we don’t know, it’s pure speculation. What I’m saying is if it’s say £1.3b to renovate and £1.8b to build from scratch then paying the extra £500m to build a brand new state of the art stadium would be more beneficial in the long run. Still mega money but the people purchasing the club will have very deep pockets anyway.
The badminton courts are on the multi use centre area of the Velodrome track, which is adjacent to the Indoor BMX centre.
Ah ok. The only times I’ve been there was when it was the venue for the Manchester Beer Festival
I think some of you don't have much knowledge of engineering. We can rebuild the stadium one end at a time and still host matches. Construction doesn't even need to stop during matches, just put a big tarp over it and make the players wear safety goggles.
Which is what happened when the current version of the stadium was put in place
The fact it’s not an engineering forum probably means you’re not far wrong with that sweeping statement.
Anybody who went to OT between 1992 and about 2005 would have known
It's not only the stadium, the area around it is residential and run down. Small streets, old shops and transport links arent great either.
Spending a billion on a revamp and keeping the stadium where it is seems like such a huge missed opportunity.
Can you imagine a new 90,000 seater stadium, even better than Tottenhams, full every week, a home for international sports, a Dortmund style red wall, entertainment facilities around the stadium, restaurants etc.
I've been attending games since the 90s but we have to be realistic. If we want to remain at the top of the game, a move to a new location is a must. I just dont think a revemp would cut it.
Spending a billion on a revamp and keeping the stadium where it is seems like such a huge missed opportunity.
Can you imagine a new 90,000 seater stadium, even better than Tottenhams, full every week, a home for international sports, a Dortmund style red wall, entertainment facilities around the stadium, restaurants etc.
I've been attending games since the 90s but we have to be realistic. If we want to remain at the top of the game, a move to a new location is a must. I just dont think a revemp would cut it.
Are you sure you've being going to games?
There's not a lot of residential areas around most of OT - there's zero to the east and north, there's not much around Warwick Rd to the south, west there's a fair bit but that's all
Transport - there's a Tram network half a mile away and a train station next to the ground and bus stops on Chester Rd a 3 mins walk away - there aren't too many stadiums that have better