Old Trafford revamp/could be torn down and rebuilt according to Glazer plans

[Red in STL]

mm, are they? They might be tbf, I've always thought they were typical descriptors when talking about stadiums/buildings but I get that they are intangible characteristics and all that jazz, though the point is fairly obvious. Shite like the London stadium and the King power distinctly lack both. So does the Emirates for the most part. I love OT for it's quirky charm - I find it impossible to separate it from United. Maybe that's not a good thing for looking to the future, I don't know.

Depends on how long you've being going to OT, the current stadium bears no resemblance to what I used to go to, , someone posted somewhere about Arsenal fans current views of the Emirates compared to when they were wholly against knocking down Highbury, apparently a large % say the Emirates is a much better place - my guess is that most City fans would say the same with the Etihad compared with Maine Road

 

[red thru&thru]

And anyhow, the "new" version of Old Trafford will not be as it is today. It will be multipurpose, beyond holding the Rugby final...and rightly so.

 

[TheReligion]

Don't think this is right?

Happy to be proved wrong but I've never seen a screen in Old Trafford.

I’m telling you its right as I’ve been

 

[phelans shorts]

Is that so, you got a photo? Be interested to see how and where it is fixed.
I always was told the cantilevered roof was the reason a permanent screen couldn't be fixed.
Maybe it's fine for one offs, just not permanently.

I don’t have photos, but I’ve definitely seen them either end of the South Stand in the corner (so above the tunnel and where the away fans sit)

 

[Red in STL]

Wembley is a 90k seater stadium.

The following is from Chelsea for the FA cup final...

"We have received an allocation of 30,500 tickets for the FA Cup final. Within the allocation we have received 100 wheelchair positions and 100 personal assistants tickets. We also received 301 ambulant tickets and 301 personal assistants tickets. Chelsea have been allocated the East side of the Wembley Stadium.29 Apr 2022"

Lfc had the same allocation. So, for the actual fans of the 2 clubs, there were only 61k tickets. Who had all the remaining 29k tickets?

The FA get a big chunk which go to the various associations and all the clubs get a few tickets, these are generally football people so I wouldn't class them as corporate even though they shouldn't get as many

I suspect the actual corporate level is probably 10K or so, too many of course but if 60K real fans can't create an atmosphere then there's a problem right there

 

[Champ]

I don’t have photos, but I’ve definitely seen them either end of the South Stand in the corner (so above the tunnel and where the away fans sit)

Ah, in which case it's under the roof and blocking either the studios or executive block if I have that correct, in which case it's a temporary thing.

which probably suggests that a permanent one cannot be installed unless they cut down on those viewing platforms.

 

[Red in STL]

Ah, in which case it's under the roof and blocking either the studios or executive block if I have that correct, in which case it's a temporary thing.

which probably suggests that a permanent one cannot be installed unless they cut down on those viewing platforms.

They're not gonna block the view of xx thousand are they - these other events won't have been full capacity events, the grand final was like 60K

 

[TheReligion]

Ah, in which case it's under the roof and blocking either the studios or executive block if I have that correct, in which case it's a temporary thing.

which probably suggests that a permanent one cannot be installed unless they cut down on those viewing platforms.

You said a screen can’t be put in due to the roof. It can and is regularly.

It wouldn’t cause any problem as part of a redevelopment if we wanted one in (which is the point)

 

[redcucumber]

Depends on how long you've being going to OT, the current stadium bears no resemblance to what I used to go to, , someone posted somewhere about Arsenal fans current views of the Emirates compared to when they were wholly against knocking down Highbury, apparently a large % say the Emirates is a much better place - my guess is that most City fans would say the same with the Etihad compared with Maine Road

I'd like to see that survey. I've read a fair bit from Arsenal fans that say the distance from the pitch to the fans is one of a few reasons why they miss Highbury (I'd also go back to Wenger saying in 2020 that he felt like Arsenal left their soul in Highbury - pretty damning of the Emirates). Spurs obviously avoided that issue and I'm sure we would as well, but it just shows the perils of such a build.

The thing is, Arsenal pretty much had to increase the capacity of their ground because it was a time when matchday revenue was still a significant chunk of income. They nearly doubled it with the move. Loads of the reasons people are giving here for us to move is because of leg room, more efficient concession stands and improved WiFi. Someone mentioned earlier that it isn't elderly friendly - we're sat in the gods in the North stand and there are loads of old people around us. They have the time of their lives! I'm not saying I couldn't ever get behind a rebuild, but the plans would have to be spectacular to consider it. Old Trafford is one of the most iconic places in the world.

 

[Champ]

You said a screen can’t be put in due to the roof. It can and is regularly.

It wouldn’t cause any problem as part of a redevelopment if we wanted one in (which is the point)

It can't be installed on the roof, it can obviously only be installed by blocking customers views or as I said earlier could be the studios in that corner, so not really a viable permanent solution.

 

[TheReligion]

It can't be installed on the roof, it can obviously only be installed by blocking customers views or as I said earlier could be the studios in that corner, so not really a viable permanent solution.

It can be installed though and easily worked in to a redevelopment of the stadium

 

[red thru&thru]

The FA get a big chunk which go to the various associations and all the clubs get a few tickets, these are generally football people so I wouldn't class them as corporate even though they shouldn't get as many

I suspect the actual corporate level is probably 10K or so, too many of course but if 60K real fans can't create an atmosphere then there's a problem right there

Agreed, not all go to corporate, but I think you know what I meant.

 

[Spoony]

mm, are they? They might be tbf, I've always thought they were typical descriptors when talking about stadiums/buildings but I get that they are intangible characteristics and all that jazz, though the point is fairly obvious. Shite like the London stadium and the King power distinctly lack both. So does the Emirates for the most part. I love OT for it's quirky charm - I find it impossible to separate it from United. Maybe that's not a good thing for looking to the future, I don't know.

London Stadium is bloody awful. The King Power is bland and plastic but identikit stadia like it are very similar to OT circa 94. I get some fans are attached to the way it looks and feels. I still miss OT + old Stretford End and if I had a magic wand I'd want to spend time walking around the old Arndale Centre and get a bus from the old bus station via the Shudehill entrance. But we can't stand in the way of progress, Manchester for example has 50 100m+ talls planned, and the city will look like a mini Manhatten one day. I love the fact the city will have Victorian, industrial and contemporary architecture next to the each other. And the odd cobbled streets. I'm not advocating a new plastic stadium but the complete overhaul of the stadium yet keeping the South Stand in some capacity. Surely a good architect could design a good marriage between old and new.

 

[Champ]

It cant be installed though and easily worked in to a redevelopment of the stadium

For sure.

My original comment was based on using the roof to install a screen, which is the main reason there isn't one currently.

If redeveloped then I guess they could incorporate that I to the design,

 

[TheReligion]

For sure.

My original comment was based on using the roof to install a screen, which is the main reason there isn't one currently.

If redeveloped then I guess they could incorporate that I to the design,

Understood. So you meant to say it can’t be installed or worked in to the roof.

I wouldn’t know the answer to that but was just pointing out that if the roof was a blocker then there would still be a way around it given a screen is added each season.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Given the state of the club this thread should in sci-fiction section of the forum

 

[TheReligion]

Given the state of the club this thread should in sci-fiction section of the forum

What’s the state of the club? What science fiction film would be comparable? Who would play EtH in a Hollywood adaptation?

 

[Champ]

Understood. So you meant to say it can’t be installed or worked in to the roof.

I wouldn’t know the answer to that but was just pointing out that if the roof was a blocker then there would still be a way around it given a screen is added each season.

Yeah, I didn't realise one had been installed where it is, which is good to see.

 

[phelans shorts]

What’s the state of the club? What science fiction film would be comparable? Who would play EtH in a Hollywood adaptation?

Definitely Ming the Merciless

 

[Champ]

Definitely Ming the Merciless

Cracking shout.

Just get a permanent marker and draw the black point on his brow.

 

[Gazza]

I love the fact that OT doesn’t have a big screen. Don’t want one even if we do get a new stadium.

 

[Bert_]

I love the fact that OT doesn’t have a big screen. Don’t want one even if we do get a new stadium.

We'll end up with them whether we renovate or rebuild. Standard requirement these days. Especially with VAR etc.

We had to reduce capacity during the rugby league world cup (or was it the womens euros?) in order to install screens in the stands.

 

[stevoc]

So what would you do with OT?

I'd probably prefer a major refurbishment of OT instead of demolishing it.

Take the roof off, expand the south stand, look into altering the tiers so there's more leg room. And just give the building a face lift and modernise the facilities.

If that's not feasible or practical then a phased rebuild one stand at a time. Move the stadium slightly north away from the tracks.

 

[stevoc]

Why would anyone buy anything then, everything is outdated in a few years, but good designs can allow for upgrades, the current OT has been updated dozens of times in my lifetime, never mind the lifetime of the building, but it's reached the limit of what is practical

Old Trafford isn't a product though, it's a historical building that's been in use for over a century at this stage. I believe its possibly the oldest major stadium in the world. Most historical buildings that belong to institutions, just continue to be refurbished and modernised as needed.

Even if we build a brand new stadium it'll probably need major redevelopment in 20 years anyway. Look at Carrington state of the art when it was built in 2000 now it needs major investment.

 

[stevoc]

The problem with Wembley isn't the stadium, it's the people who the FA have in there. They have so many corporate people there, the atmosphere is shocking.

I take it you meant to reply to someone else?

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Where would we play (most likely for a season and a half or 2) if OT was to be demolished and re-built?

 

[macheda14]

Where would we play (most likely for a season and a half or 2) if OT was to be demolished and re-built?

If it were to be a new stadium they would build it next to OT, we own a lot of surrounding land.

 

[red thru&thru]

I take it you meant to reply to someone else?

Maybe. My apologies.

 

[Sushi Kagawa]

If it were to be a new stadium they would build it next to OT, we own a lot of surrounding land.

We can always use Etihad if required or evertons new stadium

 

[Red in STL]

Old Trafford isn't a product though, it's an historical building that's been in use for over a century at this stage. I believe its possibly the oldest major stadium in the world. Most historical buildings that belong to institutions, just continue to be refurbished and modernised as needed.

Even if we build a brand new stadium it'll probably need major redevelopment in 20 years anyway. Look at Carrington state of the art when it was built in 2000 now it needs major investment.

Only one thing remains fom the original stadium and that's the old tunnel, most of the stadium dates from the 90's onwards, only the old main stand really has any historical significance and even then only back to the 60's

 

[JB7]

I love the fact that OT doesn’t have a big screen. Don’t want one even if we do get a new stadium.

Agreed.

We'll end up with them whether we renovate or rebuild. Standard requirement these days. Especially with VAR etc.

We had to reduce capacity during the rugby league world cup (or was it the womens euros?) in order to install screens in the stands.

Why? You don't have any more idea what's going on with the screens than you do at Old Trafford, the same information comes up regardless "VAR CHECKING XXX", that's it. There is no need for a screen.

 

[JB7]

The problem with Wembley isn't the stadium, it's the people who the FA have in there. They have so many corporate people there, the atmosphere is shocking.

No Wembley is definitely a problem, it's shite. It doesn't help that the entire second tier is Club Wembley, granted, but it's a shite stadium for making noise.

 

[Red in STL]

Agreed, not all go to corporate, but I think you know what I meant.

I do but it's always been that way in reality, prior to the bigger corporate involvement the FA took far more, if I recall correctly in 1985 United got about 40K for the cup final as did Everton with a 100K capacity so not a lot different.

 

[Red in STL]

No Wembley is definitely a problem, it's shite. It doesn't help that the entire second tier is Club Wembley, granted, but it's a shite stadium for making noise.

Maybe but a lot of fans are too busy looking at their bloody phones to make noise!

 

[Revaulx]

Old Trafford isn't a product though, it's an historical building that's been in use for over a century at this stage. I believe its possibly the oldest major stadium in the world. Most historical buildings that belong to institutions, just continue to be refurbished and modernised as needed.

Even if we build a brand new stadium it'll probably need major redevelopment in 20 years anyway. Look at Carrington state of the art when it was built in 2000 now it needs major investment.

It stands on a site that’s been used for over a century. There’s nothing historical about the building though; it’s all been rebuilt (most if it from the ground up) over the past 50 years. Some of it more than once.

I understand that younger fans get sentimental about it because it’s all they’ve ever known. Us older ones are a lot more pragmatic.

That doesn’t mean I want the ground to move to Wilmslow, or be surrounded by shopping malls. Fortunately most of the latter are going bust, so I think we’ll be spared that…

 

[stevoc]

Only one thing remains fom the original stadium and that's the old tunnel, most of the stadium dates from the 90's onwards, only the old main stand really has any historical significance and even then only back to the 60's

It stands on a site that’s been used for over a century. There’s nothing historical about the building though; it’s all been rebuilt (most if it from the ground up) over the past 50 years. Some of it more than once.

I understand that younger fans get sentimental about it because it’s all they’ve ever known. Us older ones are a lot more pragmatic.

That doesn’t mean I want the ground to move to Wilmslow, or be surrounded by shopping malls. Fortunately most of the latter are going bust, so I think we’ll be spared that…

Yes I think most of us are aware of that, Old Trafford is like Theseus' ship.

That's the point though the stadium has been renovated and rebuilt as needed for over a century yet it's still on the same site. There's no reason it can't be done again.

 

[Bert_]

Why? You don't have any more idea what's going on with the screens than you do at Old Trafford, the same information comes up regardless "VAR CHECKING XXX", that's it. There is no need for a screen.

So they can blast you with adverts!

Seriously though, there is/was talk of the Premier League making them mandatory. It's only Old Trafford and Anfield that don't have them. FIFA stadium guidelines also state that stadiums should have screens installed. So if we ever host the World Cup/Euros then that could prevent Old Trafford from being a host venue as daft at that seems (it's FIFA).

 

[Red in STL]

Yes I think most of us are aware of that, Old Trafford is like Theseus' ship.

That's the point though the stadium has been renovated and rebuilt as needed for over a century yet it's still on the same site. There's no reason it can't be done again.

Does it have to be the exact same site? Would across the road where the car parks are (or at least used to be)

For true historical reasons maybe we should build a stadium at North Road or Bank Street, no way can we then be deemed not in Manchester!!

 

[JB7]

So they can blast you with adverts!

Seriously though, there is/was talk of the Premier League making them mandatory. It's only Old Trafford and Anfield that don't have them. FIFA stadium guidelines also state that stadiums should have screens installed. So if we ever host the World Cup/Euros then that could prevent Old Trafford from being a host venue as daft at that seems (it's FIFA).

To be fair it wouldn't, they'd just install one at the cost of a couple hundred seats like they do for the Rugby games and for the women's Euro's in the summer.

I'm not keen on them, they're distracting when they're showing the game and if they're not showing the game I don't need to see a list of the two line ups etc. I like the fact we don't have big screens at OT.

 

[Big Andy]

Is exactly the reasoning the contractors will give, and it’s one in this country we fall for every time. Petrol is a prime example. Of course there is some truth in this, but increased to those extents? I don’t think so. As always, just my opinion. Hopefully we can squeeze margins and get a new world class stadium to boot.

They have mate, steelwork prices are through the roof, everything has increased in price. Some things from 25% to 50% more expensive than pre covid/Ukraine