Official: FC Barcelona charged with Corruption over payments to former referees chief | UEFA open investigation

[africanspur]

This is honestly one of the funniest performances by a poster I've ever seen. The superiority makes it even funnier.

Barcelona fans already have a genuine persecution complex it seems when it comes to to both la liga and uefa, can only imagine it's going I to overdrive if anything as drastic as relegation or even a points deduction happens.

 

[rimaldo]

They are almost certainly in trouble, but it probably won't extend to the sporting fraud charge, which is hard to find direct evidence for.

oh god yeah. they’ll definitely get away with it. just like being a corrupt and ruling political party, too much is at stake to allow justice to happen. of course, you’ll then have the shitheads claiming that’s because they’ve done nothing wrong, just like corrupt and ruling political party members.

 

[Pass and Move]

It's funny seeing Madrid fans jumping all over this. I have no doubt they've benefited as much as anyone else from dodgy decisions and favourable conditions. The Nani incident alone is enough to convince me.

 

[whitbyviking]

You make a good point in the sense that when looking at some compilations, it might seem that every game was impacted.

But as someone who has worked as a law clerk and court advocate for almost 20 years, I can promise you that the prosecutor will claim that this is a very simple case when appealing to the court.

All you need to show is that (a) money was paid to someone holding a position of power, (b) the reason the money was paid had some kind of connection to that position, and (c) it was paid with the intent to impact how that person exercised his powers.

If Negreira was paid by Barca to give favorable treatment — but he instead of being the VP of the CTE was a voodoo doctor living in the jungle somewhere having no official position — and you don’t believe in voodoo — you might argue that it wouldn’t be bribery.

The seriousness of a crime can always be discussed — but bribery (sports corruption) can exist without getting any favor. It’s consummated from one side when the money is paid and from the other side when the money os received (for the above mentioned intent/purpose).

A excellent and succinct way to knock all this whataboutery from the Barce bots on the head. Surely they realise at this time that nobody cares they think Barce received some decisions against, as all have seen the cheating and decisions for that Barce received over the years.

The bottom line is they were paying somebody they shouldn't be paying, with no real reason, or more importantly evidence why. This is what the case should be decided on, and whatever the punishment is that can be applied should be so.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It's funny seeing Madrid fans jumping all over this. I have no doubt they've benefited as much as anyone else from dodgy decisions and favourable conditions. The Nani incident alone is enough to convince me.

All big clubs benefit from favorable decisions.

But here the situation is quite simple. Domestically, Barcelona have enjoyed a period of incredible domination for almost twenty years, winning the vast majority of league titles and cups, even though they had strong competition in the 2010s. It was always a little odd. For it to come out that they were paying off people involved with referees during that time really puts it all in perspective.

 

[Strelok]

Fair play to @Niemans for hanging in here, like other oppo fans you have to respect that.

I'd strongly disagree with this.

Of course it's not the same story here but the logic behind is pretty much the same with Nazis defending what the Third Reich did because they love Hitler and the Nazi party/ideology. Or Russians defending what Putin and Russia have been doing in Ukraine because they love Putin or their country. There's nothing respectful in defending the wrongdoings. In fact it's the opposite imo.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It's fine to defend your team but the way Niemans does it is incredibly obnoxious. He ignores all responses and then claims nobody ever replied to him because they were too awed by his brilliance.

 

[SirReginald]

I'd strongly disagree with this.

Of course it's not the same story here but the logic behind is pretty much the same with Nazis defending what the Third Reich did because they love Hitler and the Nazi party/ideology. Or Russians defending what Putin and Russia have been doing in Ukraine because they love Putin or their country. There's nothing respectful in defending the wrongdoings. In fact it's the opposite imo.

Precisely. If my club is ever found to be doing anything that breaks the law or something unethical then I would definitely want them to be punished. Anything that may gain advantages over other teams is against the very nature of sport.

As I have posted previously every company has an ethics policy and code of conduct and in said ethics policies you will find that there is usually a clearly define statement that forbids the giving or receiving of “gifts” to or from someone who has a position of influence. This is the very thing Barcelona have acknowledged to have done but claim to be a victim. Disgusting.

 

[The Corinthian]

I don’t know enough to comment on the particulars. Sad story, and any neutral observer would say it looks terrible and smells to high heaven. Barca have brought much to the game, and this takes a lot of their shine. Fair play to @Niemans for hanging in here, like other oppo fans you have to respect that. As with other such cases I hope the judgement is clear and proportionate punishment is meted out.

Fair play to @Niemans for joining the likes of flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and all the rest with their nonsense.

 

[Niemans]

No, it’s enough to bribe the guy who reviews their performance and makes or breaks their career. The refs will quickly learn how to fall line to keep their career or they will be demoted. Much more cost effective than paying all of them.

But how do referees know they have to favor Barcelona?
Just so the referees know, Negreira must have told them.
Is it credible that referees do not denounce pressure from the vice president to favor a team? This hypothesis is not credible. The referees denounce these situations.
Look at what Iturralde Gonzalez says today. Referees denounce pressures.

 

[kafta]

But if not to get favorable decisions, what other reason can there be for the payments? At least we can say its worth a full scale investigation. The whole club is sketchy as feck, if its not one thing, its another. Seems like its all unravelling like a house of cards.

 

[Niemans]

I don’t know enough to comment on the particulars. Sad story, and any neutral observer would say it looks terrible and smells to high heaven. Barca have brought much to the game, and this takes a lot of their shine. Fair play to @Niemans for hanging in here, like other oppo fans you have to respect that. As with other such cases I hope the judgement is clear and proportionate punishment is meted out.

This is honestly one of the funniest performances by a poster I've ever seen. The superiority makes it even funnier.

Barcelona fans already have a genuine persecution complex it seems when it comes to to both la liga and uefa, can only imagine it's going I to overdrive if anything as drastic as relegation or even a points deduction happens.

If I want Barcelona to be sanctioned if it is proven that they have made irregularities or tried to influence the referees. To second division, it is deserved.

What I do not accept is the people trying to rewrite the history that Barcelona has won all those leagues thanks to the referees, when the reality is that Barcelona has been harmed in several of them. There I discuss it ad infinitum.
I lived it at the time day by day and I already had these discussions with people from Madrid and in the end everyone ran out of arguments when you show them the videos. In the end silence and mental gymnastic on their part.

 

[cyberman]

But how do referees know they have to favor Barcelona?
Just so the referees know, Negreira must have told them.
Is it credible that referees do not denounce pressure from the vice president to favor a team? This hypothesis is not credible. The referees denounce these situations.
Look at what Iturralde Gonzalez says today. Referees denounce pressures.

Referees didn’t reveal it in Italy where it was happening as well?
All Barca have to do is answer why they were paying 8m to a company for services it did not provide.
it’s all over if Barca just show us proof. That’s it. Show us.
It’s that simple

 

[Niemans]

But if not to get favorable decisions, what other reason can there be for the payments? At least we can say its worth a full scale investigation. The whole club is sketchy as feck, if its not one thing, its another. Seems like its all unravelling like a house of cards.

I fully agree that a full and thorough investigation should be carried out. And evidently those payments are strange.

The reasons can be varied and hypothetical. We will have to wait until the end of the investigation to draw conclusions.

There were also several highly publicized cases such as the case of Neymar and Sandro Rosell in which they were innocent and a lot of noise was made. The case of Sandro Rosell and the Catalonia operation deserves a separate post, because there is apparently state corruption and that is very serious. And Sandro Rosell's complaint for indications of this corruption was admitted, just a week before the Negreira case appeared and nothing is said when it is much more serious.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I lived it at the time day by day and I already had these discussions with people from Madrid and in the end everyone ran out of arguments when you show them the videos. In the end silence and mental gymnastic on their part.

 

[Tarrou]

If I want Barcelona to be sanctioned if it is proven that they have made irregularities or tried to influence the referees. To second division, it is deserved.

What I do not accept is the people trying to rewrite the history that Barcelona has won all those leagues thanks to the referees, when the reality is that Barcelona has been harmed in several of them. There I discuss it ad infinitum.
I lived it at the time day by day and I already had these discussions with people from Madrid and in the end everyone ran out of arguments when you show them the videos. In the end silence and mental gymnastic on their part.

I'll take things that never happened for $500, Alex

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I'll take things that never happened for $500, Alex

The person from Madrid was Albert Einstein.

 

[Niemans]

Referees didn’t reveal it in Italy where it was happening as well?
All Barca have to do is answer why they were paying 8m to a company for services it did not provide.
it’s all over if Barca just show us proof. That’s it. Show us.
It’s that simple

That it happened in another country does not mean that it happens in Spain.

And yes, there are payments and invoices for making more than 100 reports a year, not every year. As I have already said, their payments are strange and will have to be investigated.
According to information, Laporta will hold a press conference perhaps next week, right now he is gathering information about this situation.

 

[Niemans]

I'll take things that never happened for $500, Alex

It is normal and understandable that you think that, but only I know the truth.

 

[cyberman]

That it happened in another country does not mean that it happens in Spain.

And yes, there are payments and invoices for making more than 100 reports a year, not every year. As I have already said, their payments are strange and will have to be investigated.
According to information, Laporta will hold a press conference perhaps next week, right now he is gathering information about this situation.

Im giving you an example of referees not revealing pressure to influence games and you’re saying it’s not relevant to your question of referees not revealing pressure to influence games as a red flag for the prosecution?
Have you a special form of corruption over there that doesn’t translate to Italian corruption?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

According to information, Laporta will hold a press conference perhaps next week, right now he is gathering information about this situation.

There is no logical reason why it should take months to produce reports and DVDs that were produced over a period of decades.

This news is out in public for a month. Barcelona knew about the investigation beforehand. They were asked to produce this documentation way back in 2019 and they failed to do so.

 

[africanspur]

If I want Barcelona to be sanctioned if it is proven that they have made irregularities or tried to influence the referees. To second division, it is deserved.

What I do not accept is the people trying to rewrite the history that Barcelona has won all those leagues thanks to the referees, when the reality is that Barcelona has been harmed in several of them. There I discuss it ad infinitum.
I lived it at the time day by day and I already had these discussions with people from Madrid and in the end everyone ran out of arguments when you show them the videos. In the end silence and mental gymnastic on their part.

I'm not even following these threads that closely but even I can see that this is nonsense.

People are replying to you. Some with laughter at the unbelievable nature of some of your suggestions (including that Barcelona should have won 12 league titles in a row), some with actual full posts rebutting some of your points.

Unfortunately you simply ignore the ones that actually do so and continue posting ridiculous posts showing a time when someone once dived against Barcelona and got a penalty.

There was literally a post doing so on the last page, ignored by you. Multiple posts asking for a plausible explanation from you or any of the other Barcelona fans about why on earth you would pay such a prominent referee such a large amount of money. Why you would keep it secret. Answers, when given, only to obscure. strange suggestions that hundreds of thousands/ millions a year is not enough to pay for even the shoe of one ref, as if Spanish refs are all multi billionaires.

You fail to see that even if you technically get off with it on a legal level, it's corrupt as hell. If my club got caught doing this, I'd be genuinely ashamed, not trying to justify it with specious arguments on another forum.

 

[Niemans]

Fair play to @Niemans for joining the likes of flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and all the rest with their nonsense.

Of what I have said, which is nonsense for you?

 

[Niemans]

There is no logical reason why it should take months to produce reports and DVDs that were produced over a period of decades.

This news is out in public for a month. Barcelona knew about the investigation beforehand. They were asked to produce this documentation way back in 2019 and they failed to do so.

I have read or heard somewhere that the tax investigation takes more than a year. Now it's time to wait for the trial and expose the evidence that there is.

 

[africanspur]

How about we start with the suggestion that Barcelona should have won 12 league titles in a row, an unprecedented achievement in essentially any league, at a time when they had two other clubs regularly reaching CL finals competing against them?

 

[The Corinthian]

Of what I have said, which is nonsense for you?

Pretty much everything.

 

[Niemans]

I'm not even following these threads that closely but even I can see that this is nonsense.

People are replying to you. Some with laughter at the unbelievable nature of some of your suggestions (including that Barcelona should have won 12 league titles in a row), some with actual full posts rebutting some of your points.

Unfortunately you simply ignore the ones that actually do so and continue posting ridiculous posts showing a time when someone once dived against Barcelona and got a penalty.

There was literally a post doing so on the last page, ignored by you. Multiple posts asking for a plausible explanation from you or any of the other Barcelona fans about why on earth you would pay such a prominent referee such a large amount of money. Why you would keep it secret. Answers, when given, only to obscure. strange suggestions that hundreds of thousands/ millions a year is not enough to pay for even the shoe of one ref, as if Spanish refs are all multi billionaires.

You fail to see that even if you technically get off with it on a legal level, it's corrupt as hell. If my club got caught doing this, I'd be genuinely ashamed, not trying to justify it with specious arguments on another forum.

Let's see, I don't have infinite time to be in Redcafe often. Yesterday I must have had more than 50 or 60 mentions, many are insults or disparagements towards me and a couple of users I know and they are trolls and I don't read what they say, some of what I read about them are true fallacies without argument and it is not worth it to even answer them. If for some users these fallacies and arguments seem correct, it is not my fault that their level is so low. And obviously I'm sure I missed responses from educated people with good arguments, but it doesn't give me time to read everything, nor do I want to face so much insult and contempt.

 

[cyberman]

I have read or heard somewhere that the tax investigation takes more than a year. Now it's time to wait for the trial and expose the evidence that there is.

So why didn’t they produce evidence when asked in 2019?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

You fail to see that even if you technically get off with it on a legal level, it's corrupt as hell. If my club got caught doing this, I'd be genuinely ashamed, not trying to justify it with specious arguments on another forum.

They don't care if the club did anything illegal. They probably won't even care if the club gets punished.

What they care is that people don't believe the club deserved to win. Their pride is attached to the idea that Barcelona played the best football ever and therefore deserved to win every title ever.

 

[africanspur]

Let's see, I don't have infinite time to be in Redcafe often. Yesterday I must have had more than 50 or 60 mentions, many are insults or disparagements towards me and a couple of users I know and they are trolls and I don't read what they say, some of what I read about them are true fallacies without argument and it is not worth it to even answer them. If for some users these fallacies and arguments seem correct, it is not my fault that their level is so low. And obviously I'm sure I missed responses from educated people with good arguments, but it doesn't give me time to read everything, nor do I want to face so much insult and contempt.

Well of course, it can be overwhelming. And yet what I saw yesterday was you online,methodically replying to almost everyone who had quoted you, except a real Madrid fan who, without insult, had laid out one of the fallacies to your argument about the perpetual league titles you think you should have won.

They laid out videos, texts etc etc. Yet you ignored that and focused on replying to others instead, likely because the non Spanish club fans have less of a stake and are less able/ bothered to trawl through finding evidence about what Barcelona did or didn't do.

 

[africanspur]

what did you pay him for?
why did you pay him?
what could this man have provided you that was within the law, rules of the league and sporting ethics?
why did you go to him and not another “expert” given his position of influence?
And finally
why were payments undisclosed to an account registered to said person?

I'll put in this quote from the other thread. I've removed the bits that you might construe as insults so you don't get offended.

Could you answer these questions? Simple answers, without referencing specific refereeing decisions from matches whenever ago?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I was waiting in line at the Aldi check out earlier when the person in front of me said that Gary Lineker is returning to MOTD. I tapped him on the shoulder and asked him why Lineker was allowed to go back to his job but Barcelona are still being unfairly sanctioned by the Madrid La Liga Cartel. He was obviously stunned by my brilliance and had feck all retort. I KO'd the twat by chucking some printed screengrabs of Jordi Alba at him, which I keep on my person for such eventualities, and as I left everyone in the shop clapped.

 

[Niemans]

How about we start with the suggestion that Barcelona should have won 12 league titles in a row, an unprecedented achievement in essentially any league, at a time when they had two other clubs regularly reaching CL finals competing against them?

It wasn't a suggestion in the first place, I said it clearly.

Second, because it is unprecedented does not mean that it is not or cannot be true.

And thirdly, the fact that the teams that played in another competition and did well has nothing to do with what happens in the Spanish league.

 

[FreckBarca]

At this point Niemans is just baiting us all.
You can not discuss with someone who doesn't read other posters.

A 100 refs could testify that they were paid to help Barcelona and he would still say the is no conclusive evidence as they are all lying.

Bertomeu could testify that he paid Negreira to help Barcelona and he would still say that he didn't really represent Barcelona and the club is innocent.

He will always hold the truth.

 

[Niemans]

Well of course, it can be overwhelming. And yet what I saw yesterday was you online,methodically replying to almost everyone who had quoted you, except a real Madrid fan who, without insult, had laid out one of the fallacies to your argument about the perpetual league titles you think you should have won.

They laid out videos, texts etc etc. Yet you ignored that and focused on replying to others instead, likely because the non Spanish club fans have less of a stake and are less able/ bothered to trawl through finding evidence about what Barcelona did or didn't do.

Pass me those posts and answer them when I can.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

If for some users these fallacies and arguments seem correct, it is not my fault that their level is so low.

You tried to pass off a game in which Barcelona received two scandalous penalties, one of which won them the game, as a "legitimate" win for Barcelona in your argument about "missing points."

That is not a "fallacy", that is simply lying.

 

[Tarrou]

Pass me those posts and answer them when I can.

why don't you just tell us why Barca paid this ref millions for feckall work?

 

[africanspur]

You have proven wrong time and time again, by many people.

You made a post claiming that Barcelona should have won the league in 16/17. In that post, you made this claim:



Barcelona finished the league season with 90 points and Real Madrid with 93. You are claiming that they had a victory stolen from them that would have given them the 93 points.

As me and others have pointed out, Barcelona were actually losing their last game of the season, against Eibar. In the 69th minute, when they were down by one goal, they were given this penalty. It is one of the most fraudulent penalties in modern football history. This penalty was a big scandal and reported in the international press at the time:

Messi actually missed the penalty.

Shortly after, Barcelona were given another penalty, this time for a dive by Neymar. The Eibar player who didn't foul Neymar was given a red card. This red card was rescinded afterward, and the Comité de Competición admitted that there was no contact.

Barcelona got three points from a game in a completely fraudulent manner. They should have gotten 1 or 0 points.

I pointed this out to you, in a thorough post with videos. You did not mention this incident at all in your original post.

And your response was:



The videos cannot be viewed. Literally all you need to do is click on a link that says WATCH ON YOUTUBE and the videos open. Shameful evasion, plus a declaration that "these plays have much more influence", which is not based on anything.

When you make an argument where you want to show us "photos" and "videos," it is fundamentally an argument of trust. We have to trust that your videos and photos are a representation of reality. We don't trust that, because we have caught you trying to deceive us.

If you're willing to dismiss incidents that are 100% fraudulent, how many 80% fraudulent incidents might you be ignoring? In all these games Barcelona "should" have won, how many dubious incidents are there that you've decided, in your infinite wisdom, "have less influence" than whatever happened to Barcelona?

I quote your post again:



The game you are talking about is one against Malaga. So you are saying 90+3 = 93.

You are counting a fraudulent win as legitimate and hoping nobody notices. You are caught trying to deceive us. You cannot be trusted.

@Niemans here it is, go wild.

As Tarrou said though, why not just answer the questions from sirreginald instead?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

why don't you just tell us why Barca paid this ref millions for feckall work?

Why is anyone still wasting their time with him at this point? At the start it was interesting but now you'll either get no response or a mountain of self aggrandising comments about how great he thinks he is? You'd get better responses from a duck.

 

[Niemans]

At this point Niemans is just baiting us all.
You can not discuss with someone who doesn't read other posters.

A 100 refs could testify that they were paid to help Barcelona and he would still say the is no conclusive evidence as they are all lying.

Bertomeu could testify that he paid Negreira to help Barcelona and he would still say that he didn't really represent Barcelona and the club is innocent.

He will always hold the truth.

But if the only ones I don't pay attention to are you, Colombianmancunian and Alonzo because you are trolls or you insult especially you and say outrageous things, but how am I going to pay attention to you? I could have ignored you by hitting the button several months ago but I don't do those things, I just don't read what you post. With the things you posted months ago, it was already clear to me that you were a troll.