The bookies just shouldn't take bets on things like no-balls... it's all to easy to fix things like that...
NOTW exposes Pak match-fixing in Lord's Test
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
Banning Aamer for life would be exceptionally harsh on such a young kid, everyone makes mistakes... and I'd hate to see his career ruined and the sport of Cricket robbed of such an exceptional talent.
The rest of the participants need to be banned for life.. senior cricketers who won't change and will just fall back into the old ways if given lenient punishment. I also hope the ICC are in charge of this operation rather than the PCB wanting to stick their oar in.
The rest of the participants need to be banned for life.. senior cricketers who won't change and will just fall back into the old ways if given lenient punishment. I also hope the ICC are in charge of this operation rather than the PCB wanting to stick their oar in.
YouTube - Randiv No-Ball Prevent Sehwag From Getting Century
Can this too be construed as spot fixing? Though the bowler will not have benefited financially...
Can this too be construed as spot fixing? Though the bowler will not have benefited financially...
Fair point, and I'm torn between agreeing with you as I agree he is a great talent, but at the same time wanting him to be banned as he has let so many people down.
There will be serious scrunity of the upcoming ODI's and T20's between Pak and Eng. NOTW carrying the story that the guy boasted of Pak throwing 2 ODI's, and even though it's claimed Afridi wanted/wants no part of it, there will be questions each time a no-ball is bowled or a catch dropped (even though I honestly think that has nothing to do with fixing, they couldn't catch the flu in swine flu season)
I think that's more to do with the spirit of the game and bad sportsmanship. Although, you could say if he bothered to bowl a legitimate delivery, it might have been a dot ball (unlikely the way Sehwag played) so by bowling a predetermined no-ball, he in effect gave India the victory. But that will open up a new can of worms...
The problem is a lot wider than just Pakistani cricket or just one particular sport, and I particularly don't also agree the basis of corruption is just poverty. Performers from rich countries have also been majorly involved in betting scams. Italian football was exposed for serious corruption, a snooker player was arrested last year, and there were rumours of spot betting in the Premiership where players were paid for timing throw-ins.
I agree with you, my post was just about the Pakistani cricket team in general as its what the OP was about and why I pity those who still place their faith in them when the team is so engulfed by corruption.
Until corruption is wiped out we'll just have to focus on the talent, and maybe less on the results. Enjoy the wickets and the stroke play.
Afridi's probably not whiter than white himself while the Inzi/Moyo match fixing cartel was at its peak. But at his age he's probably decided there is more to life than money. Like a bit of honour.
When Afridi resigned after the first test I knew exactly why. Shame some journalists were having a go at his courage at being a captain. Younis Khan has undoubtedly been fighting the same demons.
Amazing this isn't it. Its literally an international incident, possibly diplomatic aswell, yet to the rest of Europe, US, Russia, China etc it means nothing.
Matt Le Tissier admitted doing something similar in football - betting on the first throw in being awarded before a certain time, or something like that. Granted, he is now retired so he can't really be punished per se, but it's the same principle really. No one batted an eyelid when he made that admission. Interesting...
I don't really follow cricket that much, but by all accounts this Aamer lad is a proper talent. And in mitigation, he is an extremely young man who has likely been influenced by clever and manipulative middle men. It'd be a shame if a life ban ensued as a result.
As a slight aside, all the media are having to call it "alleged" spot fixing at the moment - for libel purposes and what not. Is there any chance that this whole thing could be coincidental? Salman Butt was quite vociferous in insisting his and his teammates' innocence.
I don't really follow cricket that much, but by all accounts this Aamer lad is a proper talent. And in mitigation, he is an extremely young man who has likely been influenced by clever and manipulative middle men. It'd be a shame if a life ban ensued as a result.
As a slight aside, all the media are having to call it "alleged" spot fixing at the moment - for libel purposes and what not. Is there any chance that this whole thing could be coincidental? Salman Butt was quite vociferous in insisting his and his teammates' innocence.
India, SA and Pakistan were the only ones to hand out punishments to their players. The Indian bookie bank in 2000 implicated players from SA, Sri Lanka, England, WI, NZ and Australia. Everyone just covered for their players
No chance it is a co-incidence. No ball like that do not happen too often. Regardless they will try to match the currency in players' rooms to the ones from the fixer. That would seal the deal.
I doubt it. To have a no-ball at the exact time that guy said there would be a no-ball is no coincidence. Also, Butt was asked a few times in the press conference about what what he made of the allegations and he kept replying 'these are just allegations'. If he himself was innocent, he should have said 'I'm not involved and I'm considering legal action for defamation'. By refusing to unequivocally deny involvement, he's in effect admitting the allegations are true against him and the named players.
Ban gambling
This is true, Warney and Mark Waugh barely got a slap on the wrist for their involvement. Though according to them, they gave the guy weather updates, and pitch reports...Not sure why the punters simply didn't wait for the TV guys or the weatherman
Butt was seen in a photograph with Majeed, and a couple of players are seen accepting cash from Majeed in a video. How much more proof is needed?
really?
I am of the belief all the allegations are true, but I haven't seen any pictures or videos of players accepting the cash in question.
links please.
The fixer has been bailed without charge, will appear before police at a future date. Suprise no charge has been made, especially with all the apparent evidence the NOTW produced...
if it is true then why should he be trated an differant to the other.
OK I can see the argument for a differant punishment.
If it is true and its not been proved yet ,the Captain should be banned for life , but Aamir should also serve a ban.
I dont agree with your agrument that he could not go to anybody , he had all the evidence and should of told somebody ,maybe not he own bosses ,how about the ICC?
He knoew all involved and everything about it.
I have seen at least one picture that looked blatantly photoshopped, wouldn't put it past the NOTW to be manufacturing evidence.
No way should they all be given life bans. Aamer is a kid, sure he isn't 18 like they claim, but at best he is 20. People commit murders and aren't locked away for life.
He needs to come clean, it is obvious he gave in to peer pressure, as a newcomer to the national setup. The older players however need to be strung up.
No excuses for them.
He needs to come clean, it is obvious he gave in to peer pressure, as a newcomer to the national setup. The older players however need to be strung up.
No excuses for them.
What a pity with respect to the Cricket in Pakistan. Wonder how long the pace bowlers display their prowess of the past. We can only wait just like we wait for the west indian bowlers to come. I hope India does something about its spin bowlers else it will be another loss that will be hard to overcome.
That has to be the biggest tragedy of that list, was a bit too young to remember him, only started watching cricket in 96, but from what I heard, he could have been up there with the very best.
I miss the golden days of Pak cricket in the 90s, match-fixing exempted of course. I really thought those days were behind us. Ijaz Butt and the like need to be removed ASAP. Unfortunately, with that cnut Zardari there, I cant see the situation improving...
You're right rotherham, in the 90s we were the new West Indies (not Australia). With some brilliant spinners, fasts and even batsmen we could have dominated instead of Australia - who would have been our close rivals in second. Unfortunately, it was also the start of serious match fixing and the end for Pakistani cricket. This was why Imran Khan never led Pakistan.
As for Basit Ali, honestly this guy was fricking ace. The next Tendulkar/Lara. A mate of mine was telling me how he spoke with Waqar Younis while he was here and Waqar (maybe spitefully) told him how Wasim Akram while captain would force his groundsmen to change pitches so they were heavily swinging. Just to get Basit out to teach him a lesson. Basit would often not bow to getting out deliberately for Wasim's match fixing.
Anyway, my proposal would be for Condom to unsheath himself from his position (if he's still there) and let some real policemen do some work. The first step would be to assign prison style police officers to accompany Pakistani players EVERYWHERE during any cricket tour. Don't know how workable this will be, but PCB is corrupt to the top (and I mean Zardari) so banning scapegoats like Aamir will not move us forward.
As for Basit Ali, honestly this guy was fricking ace. The next Tendulkar/Lara. A mate of mine was telling me how he spoke with Waqar Younis while he was here and Waqar (maybe spitefully) told him how Wasim Akram while captain would force his groundsmen to change pitches so they were heavily swinging. Just to get Basit out to teach him a lesson. Basit would often not bow to getting out deliberately for Wasim's match fixing.
Anyway, my proposal would be for Condom to unsheath himself from his position (if he's still there) and let some real policemen do some work. The first step would be to assign prison style police officers to accompany Pakistani players EVERYWHERE during any cricket tour. Don't know how workable this will be, but PCB is corrupt to the top (and I mean Zardari) so banning scapegoats like Aamir will not move us forward.
I'd love to hear Zardari's take on this issue.
Would be comedy gold.
Would be comedy gold.
Does everyone make mistakes that involve degrees of match fixing? I don't think so. He's young yes, but he's also old enough to know what's what with the world. If you bring the very foundation of the game into disrepute, disgracing your country in the process... it's a bit more of a mistake than having one too many in the club and being pictured with your pants around your ankles, you know?
There should be criminal proceedings as far as I'm concerned. A ban for life is just obvious, how can you feck with the integrity of your sport like that and expect it to just take you back in open arms after a paltry sentence... he's young another he can learn from his mistakes, and put his talents in life to different uses, perhaps discover other ones
It made national headlines and he was roundly condemned, you mean? As you say, he's now retired, and the incidents he was talking about happened years ago, so quite obviously it isn't the 'news' a currently occurring story is
Can't for the life of me see what you point actually is here
Shame about Amir. The kind looked like a special bowler. Incredible control and swing for someone so young. He's gone and fecked it up sadly. Even if he doesn't get a life ban this will follow him for years.
No you wouldn't.
He basically said these players are a shame for pakistan....obviously he hasn't looked in the mirror
Those no balls are too blatant for anyone reasonable to be in denial.
No you wouldn't.
He basically said these players are a shame for pakistan....obviously he hasn't looked in the mirror
That was my point
Everyone has moved on from that, I think the ICC and PCB are trying to figure out the length of punishments now.
Pakistan refuse to suspend 'spot-fixing' players without proof
• Pakistan want evidence before taking action against trio
• Amir, Asif and Butt could be allowed to play against England
The Guardian,
Tuesday 31 August 2010
Gary Payne
The Pakistan players at the centre of the spot-fixing scandal could be allowed to appear in the Twenty20 internationals against England after Ijaz Butt, the country's cricket board chairman, insisted none of them would be suspended until police found some hard evidence of corruption.
Salman Butt, Mohammad Amir and Mohammad Asif, the three players implicated in the News of the World sting into an alleged betting syndicate during the last Test, arrived with the squad in Taunton yesterday ahead of Sunday's match.
The Pakistan Cricket Board has been under mounting pressure to leave out the trio with both English and Pakistani law enforcement agencies now investigating the affair.
Talks yesterday between the International Cricket Council, the England and Wales Cricket Board and the PCB yielded the agreement that any player found guilty should be thrown out of the sport for life, with the ECB privately adament that the trio should at the very least be omitted from the series.
However, Butt told CricInfo that this would not be the case unless investigators revealed some substantial proof of corruption. "There is a case going on over here with Scotland Yard," Ijaz said. "This is only an allegation. There is still no charge or proof on that account. So at this stage there will be no action taken."
The News of the World allegations against the tourists are wide-reaching – starting with suggestions of "spot-fixing" no-balls in the fourth Test against England at Lord's and going as far as citing fixed matches in the past and looking ahead to the one-day series.
Haroon Lorgat, the ICC chief executive, insisted the sport's governing body would come down hard on anyone found guilty of cheating and said he hoped a deal could be brokered between the ECB and PCB before the weekend.
"We are working hard. We realise the [Twenty20] game starts on Sunday. We're busy with the Metropolitan Police and hopefully before the weekend arrives we can get to some sort of a conclusion. But it's an individual's right that you're innocent until proven guilty.
"We were ensuring among all of us that we want to see the same outcome and same objectives. And that is for anyone found guilty of corruption to be taken out of the sport. We have got that commitment from all the parties."
He conceded: "I think the reputation of the game has been tarnished and it's something we must make right. There's no question people's confidence would have been swayed. But we must ensure the vast majority of players who play the game well are provided with that opportunity and the spectators would respect those players."
Mazhar Majeed, a known associate of the Pakistan team, was arrested and then bailed without charge yesterday as part of a Scotland Yard investigation, while Butt, Asif and Amir had their mobile phones confiscated.
A three-man team from Pakistan's Federal Investigation Agency – the country's highest law enforcement agency – has also been sent to England. Interior minister Rehman Malik said the investigators would help Scotland Yard but also investigate the allegations independently.
Pakistan's prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, who launched the FIA investigation, said: "The latest fixing allegations have bowed our heads in shame. I have ordered a thorough inquiry into these allegations so that action could be taken against those who are proven guilty."
Somerset are fully expecting Thursday's friendly fixture to take place, and county chief executive Richard Gould promised the visiting side a "warm welcome", although condemnation over the scandal continued to pour in.
Former England captain Michael Vaughan told BBC Radio Five Live: "If they are proven guilty – any player – my belief is they should be banned for life."
• Pakistan want evidence before taking action against trio
• Amir, Asif and Butt could be allowed to play against England
The Guardian,
Tuesday 31 August 2010
Gary Payne
The Pakistan players at the centre of the spot-fixing scandal could be allowed to appear in the Twenty20 internationals against England after Ijaz Butt, the country's cricket board chairman, insisted none of them would be suspended until police found some hard evidence of corruption.
Salman Butt, Mohammad Amir and Mohammad Asif, the three players implicated in the News of the World sting into an alleged betting syndicate during the last Test, arrived with the squad in Taunton yesterday ahead of Sunday's match.
The Pakistan Cricket Board has been under mounting pressure to leave out the trio with both English and Pakistani law enforcement agencies now investigating the affair.
Talks yesterday between the International Cricket Council, the England and Wales Cricket Board and the PCB yielded the agreement that any player found guilty should be thrown out of the sport for life, with the ECB privately adament that the trio should at the very least be omitted from the series.
However, Butt told CricInfo that this would not be the case unless investigators revealed some substantial proof of corruption. "There is a case going on over here with Scotland Yard," Ijaz said. "This is only an allegation. There is still no charge or proof on that account. So at this stage there will be no action taken."
The News of the World allegations against the tourists are wide-reaching – starting with suggestions of "spot-fixing" no-balls in the fourth Test against England at Lord's and going as far as citing fixed matches in the past and looking ahead to the one-day series.
Haroon Lorgat, the ICC chief executive, insisted the sport's governing body would come down hard on anyone found guilty of cheating and said he hoped a deal could be brokered between the ECB and PCB before the weekend.
"We are working hard. We realise the [Twenty20] game starts on Sunday. We're busy with the Metropolitan Police and hopefully before the weekend arrives we can get to some sort of a conclusion. But it's an individual's right that you're innocent until proven guilty.
"We were ensuring among all of us that we want to see the same outcome and same objectives. And that is for anyone found guilty of corruption to be taken out of the sport. We have got that commitment from all the parties."
He conceded: "I think the reputation of the game has been tarnished and it's something we must make right. There's no question people's confidence would have been swayed. But we must ensure the vast majority of players who play the game well are provided with that opportunity and the spectators would respect those players."
Mazhar Majeed, a known associate of the Pakistan team, was arrested and then bailed without charge yesterday as part of a Scotland Yard investigation, while Butt, Asif and Amir had their mobile phones confiscated.
A three-man team from Pakistan's Federal Investigation Agency – the country's highest law enforcement agency – has also been sent to England. Interior minister Rehman Malik said the investigators would help Scotland Yard but also investigate the allegations independently.
Pakistan's prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, who launched the FIA investigation, said: "The latest fixing allegations have bowed our heads in shame. I have ordered a thorough inquiry into these allegations so that action could be taken against those who are proven guilty."
Somerset are fully expecting Thursday's friendly fixture to take place, and county chief executive Richard Gould promised the visiting side a "warm welcome", although condemnation over the scandal continued to pour in.
Former England captain Michael Vaughan told BBC Radio Five Live: "If they are proven guilty – any player – my belief is they should be banned for life."
Life bans to all those who participated and knew about the bets. Anything less will be a clear sign that ICC doesn't give a feck about the reputation of the game. Then it's basically open season on bookies to approach players with these sort of nonsense. With the world cup due to be held in Asia in a year or two that could spell real problems.
Hate to say it, but this isn't the first time the Pakistani players have been up to this sort of mischief, and I suspect it won't be the last because the ICC will likely give them some bullshit fine and some weak 6 month sentence (if found guilty).
That Karman Akmal should be given a life ban and have his two chimpunk looking teeth knocked out just for dropping all those catches. I watched a highlight (or lowlight) package and he's dropped somewhere like 6 to 7 sitters in less then a year. All of them probably on purpose to help these shady bookies. As Drogba would say...it's a fookin disgrace!
Hate to say it, but this isn't the first time the Pakistani players have been up to this sort of mischief, and I suspect it won't be the last because the ICC will likely give them some bullshit fine and some weak 6 month sentence (if found guilty).
That Karman Akmal should be given a life ban and have his two chimpunk looking teeth knocked out just for dropping all those catches. I watched a highlight (or lowlight) package and he's dropped somewhere like 6 to 7 sitters in less then a year. All of them probably on purpose to help these shady bookies. As Drogba would say...it's a fookin disgrace!
If you don't ban Aamer, then you can't ban Salman Butt, or Kamran Akmal, or Asif. If the shady fixer is telling the truth then there are 5-6 players involved in this, and while I do think Butt as the captain and organizer should get the harshest sentence, you can't just exempt the boy because he's young.
Ok, he's 18...but he still knew match fixing was wrong right? I mean, we're not talking about a babe in the wood here. He's a grown man. He's got to take some responsibility. I'd say 5 years ban should be enough for those in the team who went along with it, but weren't directly responsible.
Butt looked like he was really worried in that press conference. He's got to know that fixer is spilling his guts out to Scotland Yard to get some sort of deal and Butt as the ring leader for the players might be the first one to get the life ban.
The way he has batted during the series, i wouldn't be surprised if he threw his wicket on more then a few occasions. Little weasel deserves it if he's proven guilty.
You can't compare Aamers role to that of say Asifs.. one is a repeat offender in terms of being a prick, Aamer is a kid being influenced by senior players.. whether or not he's aware of match-fixing being wrong, how can one say no in such a team where all the seniors are in on it and furthermore the board themselves are more corrupt than the players. The lad is the future of Pakistani cricket... he has to be given a chance to repent and prove he can change, help him by cleaning out the shit that surrounds the Pakistani national team. With a talent this special.. we shouldn't just leave it to the Pakistani team to sort out the state of their game and isolate them from the International arena.. instead the ICC need to step in and put some effort into policing the Pakistan team.
Geoff Lawson offers another perspective on this that might be considered before we all decide they did it out of greed.
LAWSON BACKS UNDER-FIRE PLAYERS | Sporting Life - Cricket News | Live Scorecards, Pakistan, Spot fixing
LAWSON BACKS UNDER-FIRE PLAYERS | Sporting Life - Cricket News | Live Scorecards, Pakistan, Spot fixing
To be honest the more I think about it , the rest of the tour should be scrapped.
How can Pakistan play any sort of cricket ,with a Police investigation and one by the ICC going .
Now it seems that Pakistan have been looked at for a long time.
They should been sent home and not allowed to tour or play intill this is sorted out and the ones involved are banned.
Yes unfair on the ones that have nothing to do with it , but it must be done till Pakistan can prove that they are clean again.
How can Pakistan play any sort of cricket ,with a Police investigation and one by the ICC going .
Now it seems that Pakistan have been looked at for a long time.
They should been sent home and not allowed to tour or play intill this is sorted out and the ones involved are banned.
Yes unfair on the ones that have nothing to do with it , but it must be done till Pakistan can prove that they are clean again.