Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City

heraklion said:
Aren't you the guy that compared Messi and Haaland posting below nonsense, comparing a GOAT level playmaker + dribbler + goalscorer Messi with a penalty box poacher and declaring him as better, talking as if Messi is a penalty box poacher as well. Reducing strikers to "number of goals" only as if they don't do anything else with that great football knowledge.

It seems more like the world's problem rather than mine that football fans adore Messi, Maradona, Cruyff, Pele, Ronaldinho, Zidane, Beckenbauer, R9, Xavi, Modric, Platini type of players rather than one-dimensional limited poachers like Haaland. You're definitely in the minority with that unique taste :lol:
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I have never claimed Haaland is a better footballer than Messi, but I have claimed he is a better goalscorer and ahead of him for his age when it comes to goalscoring and endproduct. He'll have to up his game now though to keep up, because Messi had 10 insane seasons in a row from this age. Messi had the best ever team around him to give him the best possible working conditions. Don't get me wrong, I loved watching Messi and the other greats you mentioned play football. The aftermath will tell us how good Haaland really is/will become. One thing is certain, and that is that Haaland possesses a unique set of extreme skills that we haven't really seen before.
I have seen street footballers do things with a football none of the above greats is even close to be able to do. There is many ways to be a good footballer.
 
padr81 said:
We hammered an on form Bayern 3-0 too but they just didn't turn up either I guess
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Calling them on form is a stretch at best. They had just fired Nagelsmann because they weren't on form.
 
padr81 said:
We hammered an on form Bayern 3-0 too but they just didn't turn up either I guess.
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An on form Bayern the had just been knocked out of the German Cup after a 2-1 home defeat to SC Freiburg and had scrapped a 1-0 over the same side away from home in the league, after the loss to City they then drew 1-1 at home against Hoffenhiem then lost 3-1 to Mainz.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
An on form Bayern the had just been knocked out of the German Cup after a 2-1 home defeat to SC Freiburg and had scrapped a 1-0 over the same side away from home in the league, after the loss to City they then drew 1-1 at home against Hoffenhiem then lost 3-1 to Mainz.
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I agree they didn't look their absolute sharpest at the time, but they did come off 8 straight wins in the CL and had only conceded in 1 game in the CL so far that season. 6 wins in the group stage (18-2) in a group with Inter and Barca and won both legs against PSG in the round of 16 (3-0)..... That's not half bad CL-form at least....

3-0 against Bayern in a first leg in a CL QF is fantastic no matter what form they allegedly were in at the time. They are not an easy opponent

Let's see if he's found his shooting boots again tonight .
 
troylocker said:
I agree they didn't look their absolute sharpest at the time, but they did come off 8 straight wins in the CL and had only conceded in 1 game in the CL so far that season. 6 wins in the group stage (18-2) in a group with Inter and Barca and won both legs against PSG in the round of 16 (3-0)..... That's not half bad CL-form at least....

3-0 against Bayern in a first leg in a CL QF is fantastic no matter what form they allegedly were in at the time. They are not an easy opponent

Let's see if he's found his shooting boots again tonight .
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Still it was the perfect timing for City to face them, as around that time they were the weakest during the last years.
 
troylocker said:
I have never claimed Haaland is a better footballer than Messi, but I have claimed he is a better goalscorer and ahead of him for his age when it comes to goalscoring and endproduct. He'll have to up his game now though to keep up, because Messi had 10 insane seasons in a row from this age. Messi had the best ever team around him to give him the best possible working conditions. Don't get me wrong, I loved watching Messi and the other greats you mentioned play football. The aftermath will tell us how good Haaland really is/will become. One thing is certain, and that is that Haaland possesses a unique set of extreme skills that we haven't really seen before.
I have seen street footballers do things with a football none of the above greats is even close to be able to do. There is many ways to be a good footballer.
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I won't defend Heraklion obssessive fanboysim, but just as a side note Messi clearly didn't worked always in the best possible conditions (even leaving aside what means to carry the 10 t-shirt in Barca even in the best of periods), nor Erling "possesses a unique set of extreme skills we haven't really seen before", bar the obvious individuality of each one of us.
 
troylocker said:
One thing is certain, and that is that Haaland possesses a unique set of extreme skills that we haven't really seen before.
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sure, in your alternative reality:lol:

troylocker said:
I have seen street footballers do things with a football none of the above greats is even close to be able to do. There is many ways to be a good footballer.
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but saw no street footballer close to Haaland.. There are 5 year-old street kids scoring tap-ins in the backyard exactly the same way Haaland does..
 
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heraklion said:
sure, in your alternative reality:lol:


but saw no street footballer close to Haaland.. There are 5 year-old street kids scoring tap-ins in the backyard exactly the same way Haaland does..
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There is a Portuguese player, who some people compare to Messi, who has won 5 golden balls thanks to tap-ins and penalties.
 
troylocker said:
I have never claimed Haaland is a better footballer than Messi, but I have claimed he is a better goalscorer and ahead of him for his age when it comes to goalscoring and endproduct. He'll have to up his game now though to keep up, because Messi had 10 insane seasons in a row from this age. Messi had the best ever team around him to give him the best possible working conditions. Don't get me wrong, I loved watching Messi and the other greats you mentioned play football. The aftermath will tell us how good Haaland really is/will become. One thing is certain, and that is that Haaland possesses a unique set of extreme skills that we haven't really seen before.
I have seen street footballers do things with a football none of the above greats is even close to be able to do. There is many ways to be a good footballer.
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I hope you know that end product isn't just goals. Messi blows Haaland away when it comes to assists and creating chances. Not even close.

Messi is one of the very very few players who could consisyently create chances for himself.

What are those unique set of skills? Please educate us.
 
padr81 said:
Yet they couldn't win it without him. Strange one really. The bottom line anyone trying to say Haaland has been anything other than a net positive at City dispite his glaring issues is an idiot and it shows in trophies. The poster I started the discussion said City scored less goal than without him, but over the course of the season they actually scored more, just less in the PL.
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Too many are looking at it in a binary way for me, when in reality Haaland allows City to be far more adaptable than they were in previous seasons even if the team output is quite similar. Last year you could even see when Pep needed too he'd almost go with an old school 442 sticking De Bruyne as a pseudo striker next to Haaland dropping off him.

In previous years City, especially in knockout competitions, could end up being nullified by a team that was happy to sit deep, defend the intricate stuff that all of their magicians would try, and then counter ruthlessly. So Pep last year more than ever before prioritized physical/athletic dominance (The 4CB defense with Akanji/Ake and Haaland running channels up top being examples) at the expense of some of his "beauty" and ended up finally winning the CL doing so. It's now far more dangerous to just sit deep and dare City to sit around your own box because Haaland is lurking for every cross/loose ball to bang in as well as being a transitional nightmare as he's always been.
 
Alpha 1 said:
I hope you know that end product isn't just goals. Messi blows Haaland away when it comes to assists and creating chances. Not even close.

Messi is one of the very very few players who could consisyently create chances for himself.

What are those unique set of skills? Please educate us.
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The combination of pace, power, movement, athletism, positioning and spacial awareness, reactions and finishing.
 
Alpha 1 said:
I hope you know that end product isn't just goals. Messi blows Haaland away when it comes to assists and creating chances. Not even close.

Messi is one of the very very few players who could consisyently create chances for himself.

What are those unique set of skills? Please educate us.
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It’s pretty mad to say Haaland isn’t unique. What other striker has been that big, that fast, that powerful while being that intelligent and good at finishing? It’s okay to prefer to watch other players but Haaland is obviously highly effective because of that mixture of extreme physical talent with a good attacking sense.

Messi is also unique to be that good at playmaking, dribbling and shooting at the same time. And Messi is far better overall player than Haaland but Haaland is still unique/devastating in his own way.
 
What's up with all the new members obsessively trying to convince everyone that Haaland is actually shit and makes City bad?
 
padr81 said:
We hammered an on form Bayern 3-0 too but they just didn't turn up either I guess.
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Bayern? On form? Last year?

Wow.

Will spell it out - Bayern have been varying levels of crap since losing Lewandowski. Last year, they famously had no competent striker and were woeful throughout and won a one-horse league thanks to an average Dortmund bottling it on the last day (and major refereeing help).

I mean, fair fecks to City for winning, but let us not pretend Bayern were anywhere near their usual level.
 
Halftrack said:
What's up with all the new members obsessively trying to convince everyone that Haaland is actually shit and makes City bad?
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I think it's more weird Messi fanboys assembling to defend him against...what I'm not exactly sure.
 
Remember the geese said:
He's just an old fashioned number 9. A good one. He's blessed with great physical attributes and he can finish. Don't over-egg the pudding.
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This is downplaying him significantly. He has a very rare combination of physical attributes...no point in denying it.
 
Posh Red said:
He’s a lot more than that, to be honest. Fits the general description, but with freakish traits in comparison to other similar players.
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Agreed that he was fortunate to inherit great physical attributes, but he is what he is. An old school centre forward. A good one, mind.
 
Remember the geese said:
Literally said that he has great physical attributes.
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And I said he has a very rare combination of physical attributes. 'Great' is downplaying it - he's a once in several generations type player on that front. I don't think he has a brilliant all round game but as far as his physical attributes go he may as well have been designed in a lab.
 
Pickle85 said:
And I said he has a very rare combination of physical attributes. 'Great' is downplaying it - he's a once in several generations type player on that front. I don't think he has a brilliant all round game but as far as his physical attributes go he may as well have been designed in a lab.
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Perhaps the word "great" means something different to you. Haaland has great physical attributes and is a top finisher. Like you say, he's a very average footballer outside of that.
 
Posh Red said:
Whether he inherited physical traits doesn’t really seem relevant in judging him as a player though. He has those traits, ultimately.
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Yeah, nothing wrong with that at all. However, he's just a traditional centre forward. A top one, but one all the same. Nothing wrong with that, but he hardly gets the heart racing. I mean, to mention Messi :rolleyes:
 
Remember the geese said:
Perhaps the word "great" means something different to you. Haaland has great physical attributes and is a top finisher. Like you say, he's a very average footballer outside of that.
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I didn't say he was a very average footballer outside of that, you did!
 
Remember the geese said:
Yeah, nothing wrong with that at all. However, he's just a traditional centre forward. A top one, but one all the same. Nothing wrong with that, but he hardly gets the heart racing. I mean, to mention Messi :rolleyes:
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Yeah, I get that he’s not in the same league as players like Messi. But a unique player all the same, and a freak one-off when it comes to players of his ilk.
 
Posh Red said:
Yeah, I get that he’s not in the same league as players like Messi. But a unique player all the same, and a freak one-off when it comes to players of his ilk.
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Yeah unique in the sense of him being a boringly typical number 9, but with extreme physical attributes even for a player of his type.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
It’s pretty mad to say Haaland isn’t unique. What other striker has been that big, that fast, that powerful while being that intelligent and good at finishing? It’s okay to prefer to watch other players but Haaland is obviously highly effective because of that mixture of extreme physical talent with a good attacking sense.

Messi is also unique to be that good at playmaking, dribbling and shooting at the same time. And Messi is far better overall player than Haaland but Haaland is still unique/devastating in his own way.
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His unique aspect comes from his height, he is damn fecking tall indeed. There has been lots of tall strikers, yet not many as tall as him and producing so many goals regularly. In late years Zlatan is in that height bracket, but his atributes are way diff from Erling, in some aspects being more of a rare specimen than Erling.

It's not like Erling differs too much of the classic 9 big man. And in some aspects even having pace and power (like CR7 and R9) he preffers to avoid physical contact, instead of thriving on it like other players in the past in such role (Batistuta, Weah, etc) . So at the end of the day he has a fanstastic positioning (his best asset so far), great running into space with great pace and an great eye for the goal. But like I've said before he is more unique aspect is his height. BTW he has time to develope a better header to take advantage of it.

Messi is not that "unique" either regarding his style (Zico, Cryuff, best and touches of Diego just as examples or similar players) or the array of offensive output he can produce, he is unique because of the level in which he does those things and I do not mean it only regarding stats, but technical profficiency (virtuosism), combine with great pace and time and space awarness. That is what makes us put him in a conversation with Pele, Cryuff, Maradona and such fellas, not because there weren't players that combine such atributes before, or in his time, but they do it on a lesser level.

In any case, what sounded a bit odd on the original post that generated this conversation, it's that it's a lot more rare, unique in a sense of combination of atributes + level of execution to find a Messi, Pele, than an extraordinary profficient big forward or striker. His carreer might end being beyond extraordinary regarding numbers, no doubt about it.

Anyway today he scored in a way that suits him like a glove and City do not provide him as usual as it should.
 
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Fobal said:
His unique aspect comes from his height, he is damn fecking tall indeed. There has been lots of tall strikers, yet not many as tall as him and producing so many goals regularly. In late years Zlatan is in that height bracket, but his atributes are way diff from Erling, in some aspects being more of a rare specimen than Erling.

It's not like Erling differs too much of the classic 9 big man. And in some aspects even having pace and power (like CR7 and R9) he preffers to avoid physical contact, instead of thriving on it like other players in the past in such role (Batistuta, Weah, etc) . So at the end of the day he has a fanstastic positioning (his best asset so far), great running into space with great pace and an great eye for the goal. But like I've said before he is more unique aspect is his height. BTW he has time to develope a better header to take advantage of it.

Messi is not that "unique" either regarding his style (Zico, Cryuff, best and touches of Diego just as examples or similar players) or the array of offensive output he can produce, he is unique because of the level in which he does those things and I do not mean it only regarding stats, but technical profficiency (virtuosism), combine with great pace and time and space awarness. That is what makes us put him in a conversation with Pele, Cryuff, Maradona and such fellas, not because there weren't players that combine such atributes before, or in his time, but they do it on a lesser level.

In any case, what sounded a bit odd on the original post that generated this conversation, it's that it's a lot more rare, unique in a sense of combination of atributes + level of execution to find a Messi, Pele, than an extraordinary profficient big forward or striker. His carreer might end being beyond extraordinary regarding numbers, no doubt about it.

Anyway today he scored in a way that suits him like a glove and City do not provide him as usual as it should.
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I don’t think there has been a top striker that tall, fast and strong.

Ibrahimovic had tall and strong but never that pace and as you said then different attributes because of it, more of a ball to feet, good first touch striker. There has never been a top striker I remember with all three like Haaland that could use it as effectively as he has with the intelligence and shooting to go with it.

There is a reason why people have said ‘cheat code’, I remember getting a regen in FIFA many years ago well before Haaland’s career started, that was 6 foot 5, 99 pace and 99 strength and I thought ‘that’s completely unrealistic’. Of course they were overpowered. But that’s what Haaland is like.

Although ironically Haaland isn’t actually that good in video games because he isn’t good enough at dribbling compared to Mbappé/Neymar.
 
Posh Red said:
Perhaps the lack of traditional central forwards in the modern game has aided him? But it’s hard to imagine Hojlund ever being as powerful as Haaland, by comparison.
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Yeah it is a poor generation for strikers. Though he would be a top striker in any generation. However, I don't find him particularly interesting because he is an average footballer. Højlund is a nice mix of different attributes. Not as powerful perhaps, but a better all round footballer.
 
Haaland is a standard #9 in the same way that Shaq was a standard NBA center.

Whatever one might think of his attributes, he is 23 and has 198 career first team goals at club level across all competitions. I don't enjoy watching him but the guy is an absolute goal scoring machine.
 
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