I hope you’re right and I’m optimistic for Hojlund. Excited to see how he progresses in the next year or so.
Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
I saw the run + goal and all I could think was how Ronaldo fenomeno was 100 times better.
The value a player brings to the team should be how good they are, but I'm sure that if Haaland scored 70 goals in the league, some people would still say that he is not among the 10 Best attackers ever because he does not do any flip flaps or stepovers. Goals are so valuable that the best team in the world would let Haaland sleep by the cornerflag for 60 min if he scored 3 goals every time he woke up.
I'm sure Leipzig thought thank god that guy who scored 5 against us was not a good all-around striker who scored 2 instead. That would have been so more damaging than Haaland eliminating us in 30 min.
I'm sure Leipzig thought thank god that guy who scored 5 against us was not a good all-around striker who scored 2 instead. That would have been so more damaging than Haaland eliminating us in 30 min.
He's need to start getting involved in play for that to happen
I think the thing with Haaland is that his numbers make people talk about him in the same league as the greatest to ever play the game. That suddenly becomes a much more nuanced argument than whether he is a great and unique striker. There have been plenty of great strikers but to be in the echelons of the best ever is naturally going to put one through a much more rigorous evaluation test.
The players unanimously considered as part of that conversation all do share one common trait, they have all shown they can open up an organized top team and win their teams a game that looked right on the edge, at the very highest level. Some have done this through superior dribbling abilities that no one could find the answer to. Some have done it through unique finess and ability to find the right pass or move when it's most difficult and the very very best have possessed both those qualities. Cristiano Ronaldo is a bit unique in that he possessed neither qualities (comparted to the all time greats) but still deserves to be in the conversation since he did indeed unlock huge games that were going nowhere without his intervention through his unique ability to find the right position and destablize defences with his movement, not to mention that he could finish like no other.
From what I've seen so far and from the looks it, many others, Haaland just did not show us that which makes him so far fail that test that separates the greats from the all time greats. Mbappé is the only player in the current generation who showed that he has that in his locker and he will have to demonstrate it consistently in the next few years to merit a place at the very top.
Dunno man, like I've said, he is indeed specially unique in being very tall.
Yet still very tall players were as fast or faster, used their power being more nasty and as strong as the Viking. Erling is not a player that actually uses his physique to roll over players like others in the past did more regularly either, with or without pace.
I don't think either his shooting is sthg that he excells in comparison with some great strikers of the past either, but indeed he has a better strike in him than the one till now has shown in City, mostly because of how City plays, not entirely his fault.
I do like the gentle giant, he is a constant menace with great determination and reading of the play were the ball might more than probably land. But this whole conversation about his unique person started with this: unique set of extreme skills that we haven't really seen before, none of the stuff we have been talking here falls under such despcription, not even being extremely tall, because that is cleary not an "extreme skill"
The Cheat Code I always felt was always more related to the "a goal per game" in his best moments, of him being extremely prolific, but again that would have been said of many greats of the past today that also had incredible goal ratios
Great, great post.
no need for flip flaps or stepovers, these things are far from a concern when Haaland is so poor in so many key dimensions that made greatest strikers ever stand out like below.
-- way inferior to Van Basten, Romario, Benzema, R9, Lewa etc. who could single handedly win a game by themselves at the flick of a switch
-- almost none passing ability
-- quite often the worst player with the lowest ratings by far when he does not score (very often between 5 to 6.5/10 ratings in these games)
-- no link-up play / hold-up play/ dribbling / through pass skills
-- poor ball control
-- does not drop deep to create space
-- zero involvement in the build-up to the extent City players purposefully ignore him to pass when they are building up play because he offers nothing more than a tap in
-- most his goals are in the 6 yard box so a natural tap-in merchant
-- for many, a boring player to watch, zero excitement factor unlike the greatest strikers ever
And, they expect us to be wowed as if we did not see any striker before.
Reading that was like when you are asked to write 500 words but only have 50
You said the same thing in 5 different ways
thanks for taking time for the deep analysis and contribution to the conversation
Anytime!
How can he be 'boringly typical' but have 'extreme physical attributes' that enhance his performance? One contradicts the other.
This is such a weird thread.
He really is as well.
So so much of this is simply not true. You are talking about the stereotype of Erling Haaland that you'd already decided he was before he'd even kicked a ball in the Premier League, and now you won't ever change your mind no matter what he does.
The sooner ye stop arguing with the obvious bot
It enhances his productivity, but I don't find him particularly interesting to watch. His all round game is too limited to get me off my seat.
So, you think Haaland has suberb link-up, hold-up, dribbling, passing skills with amazing ball control, the guy with 15-20 touches a game, shows great performance even when he doesn't score. Maybe, you should enlighten us with your facts.
As if the sentiment on him is different elsewhere. Wherever you look, just like here, most football fans find him overrated with limited skills and just boring.
Why arent people going insane over Haaland?
www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/comments/17tyol2/why_arent_people_going_insane_over_haaland/
" In the big games last season, quite often he was mostly anonymous. He just isn't that kind of player. He can finish well, but he is not the key player. He is therefore not the best player in the world, and overrated in those terms."
"He's a tap in merchant, not really particularly exciting to watch for me."
"I think it’s partly because he’s boring. He doesn’t have much character or much to talk about in terms of playing style"
"Most people see Haaland as a "tap-in merchant. I mean yeah, he's probably scored most tap-ins than any other player this year"
"He doesn’t score goals that xcite people, no 18+ yard shots, no dribbles, he’s just a big oaf waiting for a group of the most talented players to feed him a tap in."
"I just don’t enjoy watching him. Most of his goals are just basic tap ins. "
"city would win UCL without him , city was already the strongest team in the league , it’s not like he joined and then they became unbeatable."
"Cause the way goes about achieving the above mentioned feats is extremely unattractive or at the very least banal to most people."
"I think because he is great at scoring goals but his overall game is not very interesting. "
"He's generic and boring."
"His numbers are incredible but he isn’t the type of player that lights up the pitch. He’ll often be completely anonymous for 80% of the game, and then score a tap in or a penalty."
"because a lot of people actually watch football not just the statistics, he is just not an enjoyable player to watch. he might touch the ball 10 times a match and its either a tapin or a penalty."
"I’m a city fan, and I found i use to have my eyes glued to him for the majority of the game, then I realised he actually doesn’t do very much till he randomly scores."
"He isn't a very pleasing player to watch."
"There's waaay more to the game than goals. He's not even the best or second best player on his team"
"There is something about him and his goals that somehow manage to just not be that impressive compared to the other top players."
"Drool over tap in goals? Gawd, give me something special! You could see Messi’s talent. Ronaldo scored and exhibited some sublime skills. Even Mbappe and Lewandowski do other things aside from the tap in goals. I, honestly, haven’t seen Halaand show any sublime or jaw dropping skills - imho, he’s just a better version of Lukaku."
etc. etc.
The thing is that his numbers are the best in the last 50 years, hence why he's been talked about in the same league as the greatest to ever play the game. There hasn't been a kid (or anyone alse) who's scored 36 goals in a season in the PL or has more than a goal a game in the CL, or has around a goal a game for the national team or whatever club he plays for. Those numbers are the best we have seen for a 23 year old in Europe, at least post WW2.
When he also wins the the treble in his first season with City, those talks will not stop.
He's top scorer in the toughest league in the world right now despite being out injured for 2 months.
The "he makes City worse" claims is just, well....to use a kind word....delusional.
When it comes to being decisive in big games:
He is 23 and will get plenty of opportunities to be decisive in big games the next 15 years.
His record so far in KO stages of the CL: is 13 goals and 3 assists in 14 games. (1 trophy)
In domestic cup finals: 2 goals in 2 games (2 trophies)
Messi at 23.
12 goals and 2 assists in 21 games in the KO-stages of the CL. He had 0 goals in 6 semifinals and 1 goals in that final against us (1 trophy)
He also had 1 goal in the domestic cup final he had played (1 trophy).
Ronaldo at 23
7 goals and 2 assists in 17 games in the KO stages of the CL. 1 goal in 4 semis and 1 goals in the final vs. Chelsea.
1 goal (Against Millwall) in 3 FA-cup finals (1 trophy)
1 goal (Against Wigan) in 2 League cup finals (2 trophies)
Mbappe at 23
16 goals and 3 assists in 21 games in the KO stages of the CL, 1 goal in 5 semis and 0 goals in 1 final (0 trophies)
0 goals and 3 assists in 2 league cup final (1 trophy)
1 goal and 1 assists in 4 coupe la France finals (3 trophies)
Top 10 goals per game in the CL (all time):
Haaland 1,11
Der Bomber 0,97
Puskas 0,88
Altafini 0,86
Di Stefano 0,84
Messi and Lewa 0,79
C. Ronaldo and Ruud 0,77
Papin 0,76
It's not like his numbers doesn't look good when comparing him to these guys, they look fantastic against the very best. And he's 23.
The 2 performances he had against Sevilla (who hadn't conceded in 800 minutes before playing Dortmund) in the CL back in 2021 was alien like.
He's a very special kid.
Let's see what his big game stats and trophy cabinet looks like in 15 years from now and see if he's still worthy of a mention.
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Are you trying to use quotes from an echochamber on reddit as proof of something here? Made me smile.
Up until this point in terms of age, he is the best ever goal scorer in the history of the game so he's special.
Also, he's playing in one of the toughest leagues in the world.
Also, he's playing in one of the toughest leagues in the world.
Can you name some comparable old fashioned number 9s that you think is around same level, please. I'll do my best to present the numbers for the players you come up with in a fair way so every one can decide for themselves if they agree with you.
Keep in mind that he is 23 and still has some developing to do and some football to play.
How is he better than Pele?
Someone who's got more to locker with his goal-scoring and also had to focus on other facets besides goal-scoring + scored at a better rate than Haaland up to this point in Haaland's career(using the same time-frame for Pele).
Much better than you trying to desperately compare a tap-in merchant with Messi and Ronaldo, that makes me laugh not even smile. It's incredible that you still cannot comprehend those players can dominate a game without scoring a single goal.
Are you aware that your "unique views on haaland" are in the minority wherever you look, here or reddit or any other ?
Let me help you learn a little detail as you're comparing Haaland the ghost with Messi at 23
Messi at 23: 3 Ballon D'or
Haaland at 23: 0
He really thinks when Haaland has similar g&a to Messi, they become equivalent
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That's true for Messi. Much less so for Ronaldo.
I'm pretty sure you'd struggle to name 5 notable performances from Ronaldo in which he didn't score a goal.
Cult of Messi managing to make a Haaland thread about Messi really is something to see.
Who's talking? I don't see anybody here other than you desperately putting his name next to Messi, Di Stefano, Ronaldo etc.
Wrong. Gerd Muller has 1.1 per game with the NT and at his time there were no Faroes, Andorra, Gibraltar etc.
There hasn't been a player who had Bundesliga most goals record for 41 years other than Gerd Muller.
There hasn't been a player who scored 91 goals in a calendar year other than Messi, that's just "35" goals more than Haaland's "record-breaking" season last year. Mind you, Messi is not a striker
There hasn't been a player who scored in semi and finals of WC, Euros, CL and won all other than Gerd Muller
There hasn't been a player who had a single Golden Shoe as a "non-striker" other than Messi who has 6 Golden Shoes, a record
There hasn't been a player other than Di Stefano who brought 5 CL titles as the playmaker/goalscorer of his team
There hasn't been a player who scored 50 goals a season in La Liga other than Messi
There hasn't been a player who won Golden Shoe with 50 or more goals than Messi
There hasn't been a player other than Pele who conquered the world at 17
There hasn't been a player other than R9 who won Ballon D'or at 21 or younger
we can add tons of other "There hasn't been" here...
He's not the best 23 year old we've ever seen, not even among top-20.
He's playing for the most dominant side in the PL history with 115 charges that broke many PL records before he came. He has the easiest job as a striker in the PL, he wouldn't want to swap places with Hojlund. Swap places, and see what will happen to Hojlund's and his numbers.
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I wasn't referring to the level. It's clear as day that he's one of the top 2 strikers in the world. I was making the point regarding his role in the team and the limitations he has that are typical for a player of his type. He has great physical attributes, but he isn't someone who I enjoy watching. Certainly compared to more talented and complete number 9's from the past. Let alone Messi.
Very good post, except the bolded part. It’s always more effective to try to avoid physical contact, but Haaland has no problem getting into a physical contest, that much is clear, and he’s still just a kid.
I don't get why people are mentioning all the tap-ins. As if positioning yourself for the tap-in something everyone is on the exact same level at. As if every professional striker would get the same amount of tap-in opportunities with the same 10 people around him. Gabriel Jesus could go 10 games without any tap-ins for City. Because his positioning/movements as a striker are not one of his greatest strengths among other things. Does anyone believe that the tap-in itself is the only action the striker makes when he scores a tap-in? or that a tap-in only leads to a 2 point victory or something?
And some people also say that he is not impactful against top teams, against the traditional top 6 he has 17 goals/assists in 10 games if my sources are not failing me. Which is the best ratio in history so far.
In the knockout stages in the Champions League, he also has more goal involvements than games. Yes, he has been poor in some big games, but we really don't have a big sample size of him being poor even though it's very noticeable/rememberable when someone is in the semi-finals ofcourse.
And some people also say that he is not impactful against top teams, against the traditional top 6 he has 17 goals/assists in 10 games if my sources are not failing me. Which is the best ratio in history so far.
In the knockout stages in the Champions League, he also has more goal involvements than games. Yes, he has been poor in some big games, but we really don't have a big sample size of him being poor even though it's very noticeable/rememberable when someone is in the semi-finals ofcourse.
Like you said, if it is this easy Jesus would have scored at least 20 goals a season while he was at Man City, given the chances city created per game, but he never did.
I think the bolded above sums up your stance, really. You agree he's an exceptional 9 but stylistically isn't your cup of tea.
Dunno Messi was playing as a inverted winger, when he moved into a false 9 which requires much more of you than than being a poacher he scored 91 goals in a year. Still it doesnt mean Haaland might end up more prolific especially if he stays put.
This is true. I prefer technically and creatively superior number 9's. Players who are capable of scoring a huge volume of goals, but who also offer more than that. In terms of centre forwards, I'm thinking Ronaldo, Henry, Suarez, Benzema, Kane, Lewandowski, Rooney, Van Persie, Ibrahimovic etc.
Much better than you trying to desperately compare a tap-in merchant with Messi and Ronaldo, that makes me laugh not even smile. It's incredible that you still cannot comprehend those players can dominate a game without scoring a single goal.
Are you aware that your "unique views on haaland" are in the minority wherever you look, here or reddit or any other ?
Let me help you learn a little detail as you're comparing Haaland the ghost with Messi at 23
Messi at 23: 3 Ballon D'or
Haaland at 23: 0
He really thinks when Haaland has similar g&a to Messi, they become equivalent
Messi didnt have 3 ballon d'ors at 23. He had 2 though.
In the rival's area I do agree, he is more prone to do it, he just have to develope a better header, not that I think he is bad, but he has to take more advantage of his size.
Yet I've meant it relation to his pace and power on the run, Erling it's not a player that thrives to make contact while facing players on the run, so there he relies on his pace more than his size + power and like I've said before, the way City plays, does not take advantage of this trait of him and they should, in fact his best goals had come from him shooting while carrying the ball with more space. Going back to players using their size seeking contact, It's a choice, like I've said befroe, CR and R9 didn't either, but Weah liked to do it, Batistuta on ocassions too, Kempes or Gullit (more jake for all trades players, even mids) also liked to put their stamp. It's not right or wrong there, it's just the players prefference and personality.
Some of the things said about Erling reminds me of that trendy notion of Aguero being a poacher, or a pure striker while he was quite a different player than that, but in his time in City he adapted to a more goalscorer oriented (lazy mofo style) and that created an "idea" of him that wasn't as accurate as it seems of his atributes as a player and his whole carreer, it's funny to see even experts and former players in the forward/strikers role like Schearer or Lineker being quite daft analyzing him too. (I do not think it's necessary, but just in case, I'm not saying these two are similar players, but that sometimes they had face some narrow views about their style and game).
So back to Erling, we should all remind ourselves that we are seeing a version of him that has a lot to do with what he is asked, with how his team plays and that affects his style and the variety of goals from him.
This doesn't need to end in a an extreme effort to see extreme set of skills and uniqueness to apreciate him, nor to put him in a comparison to such a different player as Messi is, while in the meantime throwing some shadow to any of them in order to enhance any of the two, at the end of the day, they do not need that at all, they do it in the fecking pitch. Maybe is a late wave from the sea of silliness and stupidity that provoqued the last Ballon D Or stuff...
Erling can be analyzed, apreciated, praised and so on without falling in comparisons with completely different players in other roles.
So back to Erling, we should all remind ourselves that we are seeing a version of him that has a lot to do with what he is asked, with how his team plays and that affects his style and the variety of goals from him.
This doesn't need to end in a an extreme effort to see extreme set of skills and uniqueness to apreciate him, nor to put him in a comparison to such a different player as Messi is, while in the meantime throwing some shadow to any of them in order to enhance any of the two, at the end of the day, they do not need that at all, they do it in the fecking pitch. Maybe is a late wave from the sea of silliness and stupidity that provoqued the last Ballon D Or stuff...
Erling can be analyzed, apreciated, praised and so on without falling in comparisons with completely different players in other roles.
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That's quite an extreme bad view of Erling and an unnecessary one to say the least. More when at the back of this view is quite an over the top need to praise Messi while the little fella does not need that at all, he defendes himself pretty well. Heraklion there will always be people that won't like not even extraordinary, or great players, even "genius" ones like Lionel is, so man it's unecessary and at the end of the day even plays against La Pulga.
Whatever you think of his football aesthetically, you can't deny his output.
At City alone he has 53 goals in 55 appearances in the Premier league, as well as 17 goals in 17 Champions League appearances.
Aguero is one of the best finishers I've ever seen, and while his numbers are seriously impressive, even he never got near these numbers at City.
At City alone he has 53 goals in 55 appearances in the Premier league, as well as 17 goals in 17 Champions League appearances.
Aguero is one of the best finishers I've ever seen, and while his numbers are seriously impressive, even he never got near these numbers at City.
Some of Aguero's dribbling before City is outstanding. He's only marginally behind Cristiano in total dtibbles completed despite playing at the most half as many minutes as Ronaldo. Essentially he is among of the very best dribblers when it comes to strikers of his generation if not the best.