Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City

B20 said:
In the 7 years prior to last season, They've made it to four quarter finals, two semi-finals and 1 final without him. So that part is easy for them. The only part he played from the quarters onwards was scoring in the quarters once they were well ahead.



The stats show quite clearly that they score less, have less progressive carries and play less vertically when he is in the side. He soaks up the goals, but his presence doesn't actually result in more goals for the team.
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Sometimes delusion helps. Reality is bound to kick in, though. I'm afraid Haaland is warming...

What Haaland brings to City is maintaining their domination. Liverpool fans should know how difficult it is, because they have won as many PL titles as Leicester and haven't won a PL/CL double for ages now. The most difficult part is to dominate for years.
 
B20 said:
I think you are somewhat supporting my point here.
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I feel like the two of you are indeed seeing the same things, just that you don't like it. And that's fair, as it is essentially an aesthetic question.
 
B20 said:
I think you are somewhat supporting my point here.
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No you're implying City score less because of Haaland which is clearly not true. There are way more factors at play all Pep.

In the same with Klopp abandoned heavy metal football for defensively sound long ball in behind for Salah and Mane in your title winning season, Pep has changed completely to win the cl.

5 less goals over a season is worth a champions league right? Nothing to do with Erling. He'd score more in the team kun played in, but win less.
 
B20 said:
In the 7 years prior to last season, They've made it to four quarter finals, two semi-finals and 1 final without him. So that part is easy for them. The only part he played from the quarters onwards was scoring in the quarters once they were well ahead.



The stats show quite clearly that they score less, have less progressive carries and play less vertically when he is in the side. He soaks up the goals, but his presence doesn't actually result in more goals for the team.
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Since Haaland has arrived, they've scored 157 goals in 64 games in the league and Champions League, averaging around 2.5 goals per game. In that time they won the treble comfortably, winning 75% of their total matches. What more can he do to help the team? If they score 167 goals instead of 157 goals by beating teams 5-0 instead of 3-0, does it really matter?
 
padr81 said:
No you're implying City score less because of Haaland which is clearly not true. There are way more factors at play all Pep.

In the same with Klopp abandoned heavy metal football for defensively sound long ball in behind for Salah and Mane in your title winning season, Pep has changed completely to win the cl.

5 less goals over a season is worth a champions league right? Nothing to do with Erling. He'd score more in the team kun played in, but win less.
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It is not wrong when you think about it. Fielding Haaland allows Pep to drop attackers in favour of defenders while keeping the goals coming. This leads to a slightly different style that you can either like or dislike as we see here.

But I would go so far to say that without Haaland Pep couldn't do these changes.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Since Haaland has arrived, they've scored 157 goals in 64 games in the league and Champions League, averaging around 2.5 goals per game. In that time they won the treble comfortably, winning 75% of their total matches. What more can he do to help the team? If they score 167 goals instead of 157 goals by beating teams 5-0 instead of 3-0, does it really matter?
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They just don't like the fact that someone without "tekkers" is deemed the best player in the league. For some reason they think that Haaland when not scoring is a detriment to City.
 
stefan92 said:
It is not wrong when you think about it. Fielding Haaland allows Pep to drop attackers in favour of defenders while keeping the goals coming. This leads to a slightly different style that you can either like or dislike as we see here.

But I would go so far to say that without Haaland Pep couldn't do these changes.
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Pep would have made the change anyway. It's no coincidence we've been scoring less and less since his 2nd season.

As he's been adapting to England he's become more and more about control than attacking output. This was before Erling.
 
padr81 said:
No you're implying City score less because of Haaland which is clearly not true. There are way more factors at play all Pep.

In the same with Klopp abandoned heavy metal football for defensively sound long ball in behind for Salah and Mane in your title winning season, Pep has changed completely to win the cl.

5 less goals over a season is worth a champions league right? Nothing to do with Erling. He'd score more in the team kun played in, but win less.
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If the bold is the case, then how are people pointing to Haaland as the difference maker in City's CL victory? You could just as easily say Pep switching tactics to finally nullify the counterattacks is responsible. City were perennial CL favorites and had been getting to the later stages of the competition, so it's not like it is that big of a leap.

It would be an easier case to make if Haaland made the difference in those late stage matches in which City had been having difficult with their finishing and the pressure, but that simply didn't happen.
 
adexkola said:
They just don't like the fact that someone without "tekkers" is deemed the best player in the league. For some reason they think that Haaland when not scoring is a detriment to City.
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Even when he's not scoring you just know the opponents have had to spend a ton of time prepping for him before the game, and then often 2 man marking him during games as I've seen some do, freeing up space for other players. United seemed to miss the memo about marking him vs City though.
 
I bet if you asked him and Salah who is the easiest team to play or score against we'd be very close to number 1 on their list.

They always have it so easy against us these days.
 
B20 said:
Nothing about him excites me when watching him play. He's a fast bulky and boringly perfunctory Inzaghi.

The fact that city actually score less goals with him than without and that he fails to show up in the big games just shows that he is not even much of a difference maker for his team. In a way, he is the on the pitch representation of city - impressive numbers, but perfunctory, soulless and ultimately meaningless.

I will continue to rate his contributions as less than spectacular. Having a setup of "let's play all balls to this guy and watch him score the goals another teammate would have scored anyway if we played more expansively" may excite the wikipedialists, but does nothing for me.

He's a great goalscorer. Don't see how he adds all that much great to the team.
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:lol: Team supported checks out. Genuine question, would you swap Haaland for Nunez?
 
padr81 said:
No you're implying City score less because of Haaland which is clearly not true. There are way more factors at play all Pep.

In the same with Klopp abandoned heavy metal football for defensively sound long ball in behind for Salah and Mane in your title winning season, Pep has changed completely to win the cl.

5 less goals over a season is worth a champions league right? Nothing to do with Erling. He'd score more in the team kun played in, but win less.
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It's terrifying to imagine what Haaland would have scored in that City team with Sane and Sterling on the wings, Silva and De Bruyne just spamming through balls for the cutback to Haaland.

However, the same issues that plagued City in the CL back then would happen with Haaland... City being more measured in the buildup to eliminate counter risk has nothing to do with Haaland, and to his credit he's also productive in City's current setup.
 
Taribo's Gap said:
If the bold is the case, then how are people pointing to Haaland as the difference maker in City's CL victory? You could just as easily say Pep switching tactics to finally nullify the counterattacks is responsible. City were perennial CL favorites and had been getting to the later stages of the competition, so it's not like it is that big of a leap.

It would be an easier case to make if Haaland made the difference in those late stage matches in which City had been having difficult with their finishing and the pressure, but that simply didn't happen.
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He's not the difference maker, Pep is. Our defence and Rodri won us the CL. Erling was a big part of it but pragmatic Pep was the key.
We won the cl because we only conceded 3 goals in 7 knockout matches vs Leipzig, Real, Bayern and Inter. 5 in the entire 13 games.
 
adexkola said:
Every time I see the word pragmatic I want to punt a cat
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I think that's Jose gave it a negative vibe and people in football see it as a defensive but in the case of pep/klopp I use it more to say became more careful and balanced in approach.
 
Gehrman said:
How many does Aguero have?
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Aguero: 9 goals and 0 assists in 16 games
Haaland: 5 goals and 3 assists in 4 games

B20 said:
Having a setup of "let's play all balls to this guy and watch him score the goals another teammate would have scored anyway if we played more expansively" may excite the wikipedialists, but does nothing for me.
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City just won the fecking treble in his first season there and he was topscorer in the league (destroyed the PL topscorer record) and topscorer in the CL (for the second time while still being 22).
I guess you don't like pure strikers, have never played as a striker yourself then and/or have a hard time praising rival players. Fair enough, but...
....does him having fired away 39 of City's 162 shots so far this season in the PL and him scoring half their goals mean their tactic is to get the ball to him and let him do what any other teammate could have done? No it doesn't and they couldn't. They should try to find him more often and earlier if anything. No one is better at getting at the end of crosses, no one is better at finding space and reading situations in the box and him occupying two defenders and stretching the opponents gets far too little praise.
You won't find a purer #9 out there, despite doing nothing for you.

I know he'd have to collect the ball deep, do some more dribles and make some more sideways and backwards passes in the midfield to hit your sweetspot. A 23 year old smashing every possible goalscoring record and winning trophies is a bit "meh" for you.
If Messi hadn't won the worldcup he'd win the Ballon d'or by a huge margin this year and deservedly so.

If he was available I would gladly spend 2 seasons worth of transfer budget to sign him.

As long as we don't become a Qatari sportswashing project, Man United will allways be my team, but I have no problem enjoying watching great talents or great football played by other teams. Haaland is the player that by far excites me the most to watch in today football. He so different and unique. Something we haven't seen before.
He ruined my Sunday though.
 
Haaland = a Norwegian Mário Jardel. Boring just like City. Kane would've scored the same amount of goals if he'd had teammates like him last season.

And it looks like Real Madrid don't rate him as much as people think.

Jose Manuel Otero, a member of Real Madrid's board of director:
"Kylian Mbappé is better suited to Real Madrid's style of play than Erling Haaland. Haaland relies on the entire team to play for him to score goals. Real Madrid needs to break through opponent defenses with skillful footballers"
 
What people who don't like him want to say is that they would rather choose the likes of Aguero, Rooney, Suarez, etc. over him, and I am sure many people would agree. Apart from goals there is not much to like about him. And that's completely fine.

Also the fact that he is in for Ballon d'Or is ridiculous, IMO. There's Golden boot for players like him.
 
Good goal scorer. Unexciting player and has the most punchable arrogant face since, well, his team-mate Fil Phoden.
 
Amar__ said:
What people who don't like him want to say is that they would rather choose the likes of Aguero, Rooney, Suarez, etc. over him, and I am sure many people would agree. Apart from goals there is not much to like about him. And that's completely fine.

Also the fact that he is in for Ballon d'Or is ridiculous, IMO. There's Golden boot for players like him.
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I think people got spoiled by players like R9, Messi, and Henry that striker should be able to start from half way line, dribble past 4 or 5 players, then round the goalkeeper to score a goal. Messi and Henry has/had more in their games and they have lots of assists as well. On the other hand, Haaland is just a goalscorer and he is extremely good at what he does. Haaland physically is a monster as a striker
 
Amar__ said:
What people who don't like him want to say is that they would rather choose the likes of Aguero, Rooney, Suarez, etc. over him, and I am sure many people would agree. Apart from goals there is not much to like about him. And that's completely fine.

Also the fact that he is in for Ballon d'Or is ridiculous, IMO. There's Golden boot for players like him.
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You cant score that many goals in the pl and cl and win the treble in your first season without being a ballon d'or contender
 
B20 said:
Nothing about him excites me when watching him play. He's a fast bulky and boringly perfunctory Inzaghi.

The fact that city actually score less goals with him than without and that he fails to show up in the big games just shows that he is not even much of a difference maker for his team. In a way, he is the on the pitch representation of city - impressive numbers, but perfunctory, soulless and ultimately meaningless.

I will continue to rate his contributions as less than spectacular. Having a setup of "let's play all balls to this guy and watch him score the goals another teammate would have scored anyway if we played more expansively" may excite the wikipedialists, but does nothing for me.

He's a great goalscorer. Don't see how he adds all that much great to the team.
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There's just something so annoyingly off about him and his robot ways. I think it's because Man City will routinely have about 70% possession in matches and he'll touch the ball 12 times all game and somehow still walk away with 2 goals. It does feel very soulless, like you say.
 
DWelbz19 said:
There's just something so annoyingly off about him and his robot ways. I think it's because Man City will routinely have about 70% possession in matches and he'll touch the ball 12 times all game and somehow still walk away with 2 goals. It does feel very soulless, like you say.
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I can understand prime Messi, CR7, Henry, and Mbappe are more entertaining to watch than Haaland. Nothing wrong with that.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
I think people got spoiled by players like R9, Messi, and Henry that striker should be able to start from half way line, dribble past 4 or 5 players, then round the goalkeeper to score a goal. Messi and Henry has/had more in their games and they have lots of assists as well. On the other hand, Haaland is just a goalscorer and he is extremely good at what he does. Haaland physically is a monster as a striker
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I wouldn’t call it spoiled, it’s just the benchmark for greatness. If we’re comparing Haaland to other great goalscorers like Ruud or even the great Van Basten, he’s definitely up there. But if we’re discussing him in the same breath of players you mentioned, it’s only natural that he falls short. He just doesn’t have that ability to unlock an elite game at the top end and be the difference makers. Maybe he will reach that level one day but his lack of finesse on the ball and balance makes it really difficult. Only Mbappé has that skill in the current crop because it’s by far the rarest commodity in the game.
 
Theonas said:
I wouldn’t call it spoiled, it’s just the benchmark for greatness. If we’re comparing Haaland to other great goalscorers like Ruud or even the great Van Basten, he’s definitely up there. But if we’re discussing him in the same breath of players you mentioned, it’s only natural that he falls short. He just doesn’t have that ability to unlock an elite game at the top end and be the difference makers. Maybe he will reach that level one day but his lack of finesse on the ball and balance makes it really difficult. Only Mbappé has that skill in the current crop because it’s by far the rarest commodity in the game.
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Haaland is not in the mould of Messi, Henry or Mbappe. He is not an all round striker/footballer who can create chance on his own. He is just a goal scorer and he needs service. He doesn't even have the skill of Ibrahimovic or Lewandowski at the moment. Haaland joined the right club that can provide him lots of service and created lots of chance for him.
 
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ThierryHenry14 said:
Haaland is not in the mould of Messi, Henry or Mbappe. He is not an all round striker/footballer who can create chance on his own. He is just a goal scorer and he needs service. He doesn't even have the skill of Ibrahimovic or Lewandowski at the moment. Haaland joined the right club that can provide him lots of service and created lots of chance for him.
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He's an incredible poacher. He's scored his share of skillfull athletic goals though.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
I think people got spoiled by players like R9, Messi, and Henry that striker should be able to start from half way line, dribble past 4 or 5 players, then round the goalkeeper to score a goal. Messi and Henry has/had more in their games and they have lots of assists as well. On the other hand, Haaland is just a goalscorer and he is extremely good at what he does. Haaland physically is a monster as a striker
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They did that, maybe 3-10 times in their entire careers, but that's what you'll see in their highlight reels on youtube.

Henry became a creative playmaker after turning 25 though. At Haaland's age he was very much not the finished article:

Henry 1994-2001 (Monaco/Juve/Arsenal):
79 goals/25 assists in 16193 minutes
CL: 12 goals/3 assists in 1818 minutes
National team: 8 goals/1 assists in 25 games (World and European champion)

Haaland 2017-2023 (Molde/Salzburg/Dortmund/City):
200 goals/48 assists in 16916 minutes
CL: 37 goals/5 assists in 2579 minutes
National team: 27 goals/3 assists in 28 games

Different gravies all together at 23. You see, Haaland can do more than score goals.

Messi 2004-2010 (Barca):
127 goals/55 assists in 15661 minutes
25 goals/9 assists in 3436 minutes
National team: 12 goals/12 assists in 50 games.

Ronaldo assisted a grand total of 63 goals in 346 games (26585 minutes) for us, while Kane who is widely praised for his passing and allround play had 16 assists total at 23
The thing is that we tend to compare the new guys with the entire careers and peaks of former greats.
Haaland is miles and miles ahead of the mentioned greats at the same age when it comes to end product.
Let's see where we're at when Haaland and Mbappe is 35....
 
FriedClams said:
:lol: Team supported checks out. Genuine question, would you swap Haaland for Nunez?
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Yeah probably as he's clearly better although I find Nunez much more entertaining to watch as he's always making stuff happen. I am not saying he's a terrible player. just not, and probably never, Balon dor material.

given the choice between Salah with haalands age, I'd pick Mo over him every time.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
I can understand prime Messi, CR7, Henry, and Mbappe are more entertaining to watch than Haaland. Nothing wrong with that.
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You just listed players obviously better than him.
Surely you should understand that there are also loads and loads of players more entertaining than him?
 
Has he not went off the boil a little bit as of late? I’m sure he’s drawn a few blanks and when he has gotten a few goals they were mostly penalties.
 
Joel Miller said:
Has he not went off the boil a little bit as of late? I’m sure he’s drawn a few blanks and when he has gotten a few goals they were mostly penalties.
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I think Messi and CR7 have just set the bar so high that Haaland because he's not nearly as easy on the eye (tekkers wise) needs to score at stupidly high rates to offset that. He's not been as clinical and looked lacking in confidence this season but has 13 goals and 3 assists in 13 games between the PL and CL so far. I think his body is struggling to recover over the summer with all the games he had to play last season as it was the first one in his career he wasn't injured for any extended period. He played like 53 games last season and the most he'd ever played before that was 40 or so.
 
Joel Miller said:
Has he not went off the boil a little bit as of late? I’m sure he’s drawn a few blanks and when he has gotten a few goals they were mostly penalties.
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Yeah, he's been crap. Just the thirteen goals this season.
 
I guess if it’s outright flair and skills you gauge your strikers by, Haaland is probably boring for you. If you appreciate the art of off the ball movement and working to unsighted angles of the opposing CB’s, you are going to be enthralled by a player on all-time trajectory.

I’m in the middle, but that’s more because the City team shouldn’t exist.
 
He's definitely not as clinical this season as he was last season. I don't see how you could argue against that to be honest.

He's getting chances and scoring though so if this is his 'drop off' I'll take it all day.
 
adexkola said:
Every time I see the word pragmatic I want to punt a cat
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Only psycho mental cases with low self esteem and balls like little tiny grape pips would say something as odious as that.

How about wanting to do something that didn’t involve being brutally cruel to a harmless animal or is that about your level?
 
That escalated faster than Haaland through the CL topscorer list.
 
BobFromParva said:
Only psycho mental cases with low self esteem and balls like little tiny grape pips would say something as odious as that.

How about wanting to do something that didn’t involve being brutally cruel to a harmless animal or is that about your level?
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Jesus, I was joking

I'd rather punt @BobFromParva
 
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