De Jong is no where near like Busquets. If anyone, it's Carrick and Blind who are similar to him in that role. You need a team of midfielders who can control the game, have good close control and who don't panic every time they get closed down. De Jong does not fit that bill. If we could have got Busquets, I would have jumped at the opportunity but to say Busquets is a grafter in that Barca side is insane.
Nigel De Jong
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The De Jong and Vlaar threads always make me think there is some joke I am missing out on. I can not believe there are people who think they would be good signings for us.
De Jong is a good player that plays his role very well. He would be a great squad player to have and would add depth to the midfield.
What's not to like?
We have better, younger options in midfield already in the squad.
So you're saying our midfield is fine as it is?
De Jong is a better defensive midfielder than Blind or Fellaini and he would bring bite to our midfield - something that we really haven't had since Keano.
As a free, beef up the squad sure
As a 'fix' for midfield problems? LVG must only be thinking short term!
As a 'fix' for midfield problems? LVG must only be thinking short term!
Then we buy McCarthy or Allan or Schneiderlin who can do what he does and are better on the ball, not a 31 year old has been with a marker against him in the PL who has been rotting in Serie A. We have two defensive CM's and LvG said he needs balance, a 3rd one isn't going to bring balance.
If we actually played midfielders in midfield we might have a solid midfield. There is definitely players who could improve our midfield but, De Jong is not one of them.
Ssssshh
No thanks.
I think we need to set our sights higher than this one.
I didn't said that Busquets was a grafters, I said that with Busquets they didn't needed one.
Edit: And while De Jong would be far from the top of my list, on a free with a 70k€ wage, I would take a punt on him, in addition of a better player.
I'd take De Jong in a heartbeat. He's one of the best at what he does, and he definitely offers something we don't have in the squad now. He was excellent at City.
People need to understand the components of a very good team. Imagine Real dismissed Makalele because he was 'limited'.
People need to understand the components of a very good team. Imagine Real dismissed Makalele because he was 'limited'.
Name them
No brainer
Experienced
Great professional
Excellent defensive midfielder
And transfer free
Not signing him up would be daft imo
Experienced
Great professional
Excellent defensive midfielder
And transfer free
Not signing him up would be daft imo
Way past his best
31 this year
We have two DM's
Thug
There are much better options avaiable
31 this year
We have two DM's
Thug
There are much better options avaiable
He is free and De Jong is a better DM option than Carrick. He may be past his best but he looked real good at the world cup.
TBH we need a bully in midfield, we're a bunch of pussys in there at the moment (except for when Fellaini is there)
Also on a free transfer he would be a good squad player (if he was happy to be that)
He got injured in the world cup and he looked mediocre as usual. Blind is our DM, Carrick is the back up, there's zero point in a 3rd DM who is a has been. Being free should not be a factor at United. If we want a player who does what he does there are way better options than him, who are younger and offer more when they have the ball as well.
Why do we need a bully? Who was Real's bully? Who is Bayern's? Who is Chelsea's? (Matic is a quality footballer, not a thug) Who is Liverpool's? If you mean we need a physical player then sure, but buy quality, there are several good options if LvG wants a physical CM.
Matic is a bully, as well as being a very good player, the rest of those teams don't play in the EPL.
As for who is Liverpools, well where are they in the league?
I understand your point, but I was talking about adding depth to the squad, not for him to come in and be starting games week in week out. If we're in europe next year, we're going to need a few squadies, and since we need to spend top money on the starting 11, if we can get a squad player for free who the manager trusts its good business.
Exactly, we don't have a player like De Jong. What people say is true, he is a thug but you need such a player in your team. One who gets his hands dirty and can bring a bit of fight and power to our game because all we have in our current team are mr nice guys and pancies. The only players that bring a bit of fight to our midfield are Fellaini and Rooney and both are better played upfront.
There certainly are better players out there that can offer what De Jong offers like Witsel or Busquets but De Jong is free in the summer and seems like a great opportunity to bring him to the team for a season or 2, especially because we'll need to bring in a lot of other players as well that will cost us a lot of money like Hummels, Clyne, possibly Laporte, Depay, a fast striker like Dyabala or something they won't come cheap. For me he is a good player that can add something to our team we don't have atm and he is free in the summer, sounds like a good deal to me. Worst that could happen is he doesn't work out and than we lost nothing except his wages.
Being free is always a factor
De Jong would not come as a starter but as a squad player.
We'll have plenty of other expensive targets to bring in, why would we not take advantage of this ?
I don't see Matic as a bully, he's a strong athlete who gets stuck in, when I think bully I think thug players like this guy, Cattermole, Shelvey etc....Liverpool had a bad start to the season I know, but they are playing as well as anyone in the league right now. If Carrick is signing an extension and Fellaini is staying how much depth do we need? That's 3 players at a push for one role.
It's a factor for clubs with a tight budget.
So why keep Carrick and Fellaini if we are just wanting a squad DM to cover Blind?
Because he's not very good, he's a thug, he's nearly 31 and we don't need him at all with 3 players already in the club that can perform the same job.
Fellaini I think we can say is no longer seen as a DM. Unless someone is coming up from the reserves then I think we should be looking for another for the squad.
He's not seen as a DM but he'd be 3rd option behind Blind and Carrick, I don't think we need to go deeper than 3 options.
We'll agree to disagree.
I would have taken him last summer before we brought Blind in but now we have decent numbers in midfield so should focus on just adding one top class player to really strengthen us there than just adding another decent option.
Fellaini is not used as a defensive midfielder by LVG but as an attacking midfielder or even as an outright forward and he in that role he has already proven to be one of our most usefull players this season. Thinking of Fellaini as a back up to Blind is completely wrong. Fellaini is a usefull player if you take advantage of his offensive qualities but if you put him in a role where he has to stay back and success depends on his positional discipline and defensive quality than you are playing him to his weakness but not his strengths which is exactly why last year he didn't work out for us but now he is proving to be a good signing.
Carrick is a copy paste to Blind but aged 33 and brings nothing extra to our team that we don't already have with Blind. De Jong brings qualities to our midfield as a defensive midfielder that we currently don't have. He is not just a sub for Blind but an alternative player with different qualities. Someone that can bring the power and fight in that defensive midfield role that we wanted from Fellaini but also has that positional discipline and ball control that we didn't get from him.
Blind and Carrick are too alike and Carrick is 33, which isn't just old but really old for a midfielder ! They offer calmness on the ball and great positional discipline but they are too nice and too soft to really dominate a midfield. Fellaini on the other hand is harder and tougher than almost any player you can think off but lacks the qualities Blind and Carrick have to really be usefull as a defensive midfielder. De Jong is a player that balances has a bit of both and hence is more usefull for us than Carrick and Fellaini as a DM.
So basically you are saying we should have 4 players in the squad for one role? Because any combination of De Jong with Blind or Carrick and we'll be more negative than Chelsea on Mourinho's most miserable day. You also don't seem to have watched him much for Milan lately, he's not got the legs for the PL anymore, he's a liability in the tackle and he's never been very good on the ball.
If we want this so called fighting player that is new cliche then there is Allan, McCarthy and Schneiderlin, all younger, all better and all good enough to play with Blind and offer plenty on the ball. De Jong is a has been thug with one quality, he's free, nothing else.
I think that Blind is better in the "Strootman" role than as a DM.
No thanks. Talentless hatchet men surely don't fit the bill of the team we're trying to build...surely?
He fits the bill perfectly, like Van Bommel did before.
He's no van Bommel.
No but you were talking about role, i think. He has almost always be a good and consistent player and he is a better passer than Van Bommel.
Now to be honest I don't know how he played this season, maybe he is past it, but last season he was good.
He had a decent world cup and would certainly add steel to our midfield. If he is happy to come here and player a utility role in the squad then go for it, was surprised when he left City he was excellent for them.
Strootman is a box to box CM with a great engine, or at least he was. Blind is a classic #6 that doesn't have the pace or drive to play the Strootman role.
The role you want is not the issue, but we can do MUCH better than him, have you seen Allan for Udinese? He's been far better this season than De Jong, he's only turned 24 and is far better on the ball and also not a thug. If we want a tough tackling, defensively disciplined CM that has the added bonus of being able to drive the ball out, then Allan is our guy, not this has been who I don't think even has the legs for this league anymore.
So it was that from the beginning you wanted to sell your Allan.
Honestly I don't really care, if your Allan is a good option I'm all for it. And Blind doesn't have to mirror Strootman game, at the World Cup he was the player or one of the players who created the more chances.
Blind is more than a DM, De Boer thinks that Blind wants to be a "controlling" midfielder and he is right, Blind is mostly brilliant on the ball, if a midfielder can give him more freedom, I'm all for it.
So it was that from the beginning you wanted to sell your Allan.
Honestly I don't really care, if your Allan is a good option I'm all for it. And Blind doesn't have to mirror Strootman game, at the World Cup he was the player or one of the players who created the more chances.
Blind is more than a DM, De Boer thinks that Blind wants to be a "controlling" midfielder and he is right, Blind is mostly brilliant on the ball, if a midfielder can give him more freedom, I'm all for it.
No, not particularly Allan, previously I listed McCarthy and Schneiderlin as options. I used Allan specifically in context of the points you made as he plays in Serie A and is the same height as De Jong, so a mirroring comparison.
Blind is good at recycling possession but a proper box to box CM he'll never be as he lacks the pace and athleticism, we have better options to play higher up than him already, he is ideal as a deep sitting #6 who protects the defense.
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