Nicola Sturgeon and Scottish Independence

Hard for Scotland to leave as they will be a very small entity on their own and untangling themselves from the UK and remaining within the EU (if possible) would be far from simple.

A united Ireland might be more practical but I have no idea how you might persuade the protestant half of NI to go along I have no idea.
 
2cents said:
Is it true that Spain could veto Scotland’s application anyway?
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Any member state can veto it. That said, I think it’s the least of the plethora of problems there are with independence. The biggest in my view would be what happens to their massive dependence on trade with the UK internal market if they leave and join the EU. UK frictionless trade with the EU will now end one way or another so what happens to all that UK dependent industry and 15% of Scottish jobs if Scotland leaves the UK and becomes an EU member state? Despite the SNP trying to sell the idea that Brexit makes Independence necessary. It actually makes it a lot more problematic for them.

Andrew Neil did a very good job of exposing a lot of the other hypocrisy and incoherence in Sturgeon‘s movement in his interview with her for this GE

 
Classical Mechanic said:
Any member state can veto it. That said, I think it’s the least of the plethora of problems there are with independence. The biggest in my view would be what happens to their massive dependence on trade with the UK internal market if they leave and join the EU. UK frictionless trade with the EU will now end one way or another so what happens to all that UK dependent industry and 15% of Scottish jobs if Scotland leaves the UK and becomes an EU member state? Despite the SNP trying to sell the idea that Brexit makes Independence necessary. It actually makes it a lot more problematic for them.

Andrew Neil did a very good job of exposing a lot of the other hypocrisy and incoherence in Sturgeon‘s movement in his interview with her for this GE

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When you listen to Sturgeon in this interview and the more fanatical SNP followers, it might be a good thing to remind them that the best way for Scotland to get its independence from the rest of the UK is to let the rest of the UK vote in the IndyRef 2.

Independence guaranteed.
 
Wibble said:
Hard for Scotland to leave as they will be a very small entity on their own and untangling themselves from the UK and remaining within the EU (if possible) would be far from simple.

A united Ireland might be more practical but I have no idea how you might persuade the protestant half of NI to go along I have no idea.
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Notice the GE result - the Unionist MPs now in the minority might hint at changes to come.
 
Full bodied red said:
Notice the GE result - the Unionist MPs now in the minority might hint at changes to come.
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At the moment the NI population is

Protestants 48%
Catholics 45%

And for such a change to occur smoothly it will require more than a simple majority in a referendum. I think we are quite a way from the point where this could occur.
 
Full bodied red said:
When you listen to Sturgeon in this interview and the more fanatical SNP followers, it might be a good thing to remind them that the best way for Scotland to get its independence from the rest of the UK is to let the rest of the UK vote in the IndyRef 2.

Independence guaranteed.
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Breaking up the union to own the libs Scots? Nice.
 
Wibble said:
At the moment the NI population is

Protestants 48%
Catholics 45%

And for such a change to occur smoothly it will require more than a simple majority in a referendum. I think we are quite a way from the point where this could occur.
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Oh....I agree 101% that it will absolutely, positively, definitely not occur smoothly.....Nutters on both sides of the divide.
 
nimic said:
It's just a dumb joke. The implication of your post was that the way some Scots are talking about independence makes other Brits want them out of the UK, which is very much an emotional reason for something that would be historically massive.
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The truth is that a lot of English people would want England to be an independent nation. The relationship with Wales is different but they’d be happy if Scotland and NI were no longer part of the Union.
 
nimic said:
It's just a dumb joke. The implication of your post was that the way some Scots are talking about independence makes other Brits want them out of the UK, which is very much an emotional reason for something that would be historically massive.
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Yepp....Agree....Absolutely huge and massive piece of history if it was to happen.

But if the same ' Feck you, I've had enough of giving you money ' can bring about Brexit when the public were allowed the chance to vote, I think there are probably tens of millions of English, Welsh and Irish who would, again, say ' Feck you as well, I've had enough of giving you money '

Emotional ?? Of course it's emotional and knee-jerk, but we all have our limits as Brexit has shown.....
 
Full bodied red said:
Yepp....Agree....Absolutely huge and massive piece of history if it was to happen.

But if the same ' Feck you, I've had enough of giving you money ' can bring about Brexit when the public were allowed the chance to vote, I think there are probably tens of millions of English, Welsh and Irish who would, again, say ' Feck you as well, I've had enough of giving you money '

Emotional ?? Of course it's emotional and knee-jerk, but we all have our limits as Brexit has shown.....
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We certanly do have our limits. As Brexit has indeed shown.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
The truth is that a lot of English people would want England to be an independent nation. The relationship with Wales is different but they’d be happy if Scotland and NI were no longer part of the Union.
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I'd be happy for them but not so much for England.
 
I wonder how much Sturgeon is willing to push this if Boris doesn't allow a referendum.

Could she go down the Catalonia route? What a can of works that would open, especially if leave ended up winning....

I doubt it though and instead we'll hear 5 years of 'give us independence referendum' 'nope' ad nauseum.
 
I just hope that past mistakes are learnt from. You want the people to be fully informed and fully engaged about leaving a political union and all the potential outcomes. Hard exit, soft exit, everything from economy to border control (not just England but NI too) to national security.

If the question is just 'Do you want to leave or remain?' which plays on people's emotions, it could be another potential nightmare and it will prove that we humans never learn.
 
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hobbers said:
She definitely won't. An illegal referendum is a gigantic waste of time, as Catalonia has proven. Doubt it would even get a 40% turnout.
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I dont think it would be an "illegal" referendum

If the SNP enacted a referendum it wouldn't be a legally binding referendum that compels the UK government to act - but i also dont think it would be illegal for them to do so if it is to test public opinion for example - i cant for example see Boris lining up the police, water cannons or troops to keep people from voting.
 
esmufc07 said:
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has anyone got their finger on the pulse in Scotland? Will this force her to resign?

I have a particular dislike for Sturgeon, and do not like her crusade. But she’s a hell of a politician, and the SNP would be dramatically weaker without her being front and centre.
 
It is really looking like she's going to have to step down. Wow. Have to say I never thought this would happen but it just won't go away.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
has anyone got their finger on the pulse in Scotland? Will this force her to resign?

I have a particular dislike for Sturgeon, and do not like her crusade. But she’s a hell of a politician, and the SNP would be dramatically weaker without her being front and centre.
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You clearly do not. What crusade?
 
TheReligion said:
It is really looking like she's going to have to step down. Wow. Have to say I never thought this would happen but it just won't go away.
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Step down because she refused to help a sexual predator. Some world we live in.

If she goes the SNP will collapse unless they go for someone young and decent like Kate Forbes. Her popularity the only thing keeping independence relevant.
 
altodevil said:
You clearly do not. What crusade?
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independence obviously. That’s an aside, and that’s not what I’m asking about.

Im interested in whether the dynamics in Scotland will cause her to resign over this, or whether she is strong enough to ride this out. That requires someone to have their finger on the pulse of what’s happening.

hopefully that’s clearer.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
has anyone got their finger on the pulse in Scotland? Will this force her to resign?

I have a particular dislike for Sturgeon, and do not like her crusade. But she’s a hell of a politician, and the SNP would be dramatically weaker without her being front and centre.
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Nah. Boris has been lying for the past 2 weeks in parliament in breach of that code and nothing.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
has anyone got their finger on the pulse in Scotland? Will this force her to resign?

I have a particular dislike for Sturgeon, and do not like her crusade. But she’s a hell of a politician, and the SNP would be dramatically weaker without her being front and centre.
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She claims she's a different kind of politician to the lying Tories so she kind of has to resign at this point. No idea who would take over except Swinney and, damn, that's one hell of a downgrade.

The thing is that she's cleary being targeted by people who also don't like her "crusade". It's fecking sickening that you've had people like Boris do infinitely worse and yet he's protected by his media chums. Not equating the two and excusing Sturgeon, really, just more of an annoying observation.
 
cyberman said:
Nah. Boris has been lying for the past 2 weeks in parliament in breach of that code and nothing.
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I don’t think that’s relevant. Boris is in a very strong situation.

is She is a strong enough position, as the leaders of other parities, with the exception of the Greens will surely be calling for her to resign?
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
I don’t think that’s relevant. Boris is in a very strong situation.

is She is a strong enough position, as the leaders of other parities, with the exception of the Greens will surely be calling for her to resign?
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How is he in a strong position :lol: He's been an absolute disaster.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
I don’t think that’s relevant. Boris is in a very strong situation.

is She is a strong enough position, as the leaders of other parities, with the exception of the Greens will surely be calling for her to resign?
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Name the leaders of the other parties in Scotland.

Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems seem to have a revolving door of leaders and they're all pretty useless. Even if they weren't supporting the SNP is like a cult for a lot of people. Nah, I genuinely think if she resigns it'll be to maintain the SNP's integrity (Iol) rather than pressure from the even more Iolfull opposition parties.
 
Acole9 said:
How is he in a strong position :lol: He's been an absolute disaster.
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look at the parliamentary arithmetic, and the opposition leaders.

Ive made no comment on whether he’s done a good job or not. But anyone can see he’s in a very strong position.
 
I reckon Sturgeon will try and stay on expend a lot of moral capital and public support in doing so. Ultimately, she'll decide that her position is untenable and causing direct harm to the independence cause and leave.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
look at the parliamentary arithmetic, and the opposition leaders.

Ive made no comment on whether he’s done a good job or not. But anyone can see he’s in a very strong position.
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Strong position because he has the british media behind him.
 
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