Nicola Sturgeon and Scottish Independence

[Red Star One]

Here's her speech, that was bound to happen with Brexit being a mess, wasn't it?


What do you think fellow Caftards, especially those from Scotland - can you see the actual independence happening now?

 

[altodevil]

No because my country is full of bottlers. Also, England leaving the Customs Union makes it difficult to say the least.

 

[balaks]

Will be very interesting to see the results of a second Scottish referendum. Imagine if they voted out! Brexit carnage plus that will be chaos. I think my early retirement to Spain may need to get moving.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Here's her speech, that was bound to happen with Brexit being a mess, wasn't it?


What do you think fellow Caftards, especially those from Scotland - can you see the actual independence happening now?

The mood says "yes". But then the mood also said Clinton and Labour would win their respective elections so feck knows haha

 

[Mr Pigeon]

No because my country is full of bottlers. Also, England leaving the Customs Union makes it difficult to say the least.

Pah, it just means we get to keep all the Tunnocks Tea Cakes and battered Mars bars to ourselves

Wait a second... Battered Tea Cakes. Alto; how much money do you have available for a wee start up business I'm planning?!?!

 

[Pink Moon]

Here's her speech, that was bound to happen with Brexit being a mess, wasn't it?


What do you think fellow Caftards, especially those from Scotland - can you see the actual independence happening now?

No. It's impossible, IMO. There's too many unionists in the country. The fact they were lied to by the No side last time and the subsequent shitstorm that's went down in Westminster won't matter a jot.

 

[Klopper76]

The pound would drop like a stone if Scotland swapped out in favor of the Euro.

Or would they keep the pound?

 

[Fingeredmouse]

No. It's impossible, IMO. There's too many unionists in the country. The fact they were lied to by the No side last time and the subsequent shitstorm that's went down in Westminster won't matter a jot.

Given events of the last 3 years it is entirely possible I believe. It may be that the chaos of Brexit makes further change unpalatable but equally the anger at the direction of the UK is palpable.

 

[Pexbo]

Good luck to them. I have absolutely no argument against them deciding they’re better off in the big Union than the little one.

 

[SilentWitness]

No. It's impossible, IMO. There's too many unionists in the country. The fact they were lied to by the No side last time and the subsequent shitstorm that's went down in Westminster won't matter a jot.

How old are you? Pretty much everyone I know under the age of 30 would be for independence now. Half of them were probably for it prior to the whole brexit shitstorm and the last ref.

 

[Pink Moon]

How old are you? Pretty much everyone I know under the age of 30 would be for independence now. Half of them were probably for it prior to the whole brexit shitstorm and the last ref.

28. I agree that generally the younger vote definitely sways towards Yes but I don't think it's enough. Don't forget that there's plenty of younger folks who have been raised staunch unionists too.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

28. I agree that generally the younger vote definitely sways towards Yes but I don't think it's enough. Don't forget that there's plenty of younger folks who have been raised staunch unionists too.

Are there? Staunch Unionism doesn't seem terribly prevalent to me. I assume by Staunch Unionist you'd be describing the sorts you still turn up on the exponentially diminishing Orange Walks? Sure, they're there but not in significant numbers.

 

[Buster15]

The pound would drop like a stone if Scotland swapped out in favor of the Euro.

Or would they keep the pound?

Surely that would depend on what the EU required in terms of entry criterion.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

The pound would drop like a stone if Scotland swapped out in favor of the Euro.

Or would they keep the pound?

Would make it easier trying to buy a Double Decker at some petrol station in Bristol, that's for sure. Trying to use Scottish pound notes in England is like trying to use an IOU written out in crayon.

 

[TheReligion]

If Scotland leave they will lose the pound.

I'm pretty sick of Sturgeon and her rhetoric. The nation is in crisis with regards to brexit and she sees it as an opportunity to push her own agenda again. The last vote wasn't even close. You can't keep having them until she gets her own way FFS.

 

[Klopper76]

If Scotland leave they will lose the pound.

I'm pretty sick of Sturgeon and her rhetoric. The nation is in crisis with regards to brexit and she sees it as an opportunity to push her own agenda again. The last vote wasn't even close. You can't keep having them until she gets her own way FFS.

You think Scotland would've voted to stay as a part of a UK if they'd known they were about to be taken out of the EU?

Things have changed since then and the majority in Scotland voted to remain in the EU.

 

[Tincanalley]

This new deal, if it flies, will mean the end of the UK as we know it (No deal Brexit would trigger the same outcome, only faster). Scotland won't put up with NI being both in and out of Europe with all the benefits, and them still tied to the sinking ship of England. Brexit is a wilful act of self-harm. Even the DUP seem to be wondering about the cords that bind them.

 

[altodevil]

If Scotland leave they will lose the pound.

I'm pretty sick of Sturgeon and her rhetoric. The nation is in crisis with regards to brexit and she sees it as an opportunity to push her own agenda again. The last vote wasn't even close. You can't keep having them until she gets her own way FFS.

Of course she is pushing her agenda, she was elected as First Minister to do so! The last vote was held on very different terms.

 

[altodevil]

Pah, it just means we get to keep all the Tunnocks Tea Cakes and battered Mars bars to ourselves

Wait a second... Battered Tea Cakes. Alto; how much money do you have available for a wee start up business I'm planning?!?!

twa bob

 

[SilentWitness]

If Scotland leave they will lose the pound.

I'm pretty sick of Sturgeon and her rhetoric. The nation is in crisis with regards to brexit and she sees it as an opportunity to push her own agenda again. The last vote wasn't even close. You can't keep having them until she gets her own way FFS.

Huh? There was a 5% difference. The situation we have with Brexit is very very shit as we all know and is more than enough to sway that 5% and more to independence. Myself and a lot of people I know didn't choose independence last time as there wasn't a solid plan and it was mostly based on nationalistic pride but now that has definitely changed thanks to England.

You think Scotland would've voted to stay as a part of a UK if they'd known they were about to be taken out of the EU?

Things have changed since then and the majority in Scotland voted to remain in the EU.

Every council in Scotland voted to remain in the EU. 62% Remain and 38% Leave if you look at the numbers.

 

[TheReligion]

You think Scotland would've voted to stay as a part of a UK if they'd known they were about to be taken out of the EU?

Things have changed since then and the majority in Scotland voted to remain in the EU.

I think they'd have a large majority who would want to remain part of the UK given how much of a mess brexit has been. Why would they want to go through something similar?

There's lots for Scotland to think about if they truly want to leave as they won't get any favours from England when it comes to making it easy. I recall looking at independent Scotland's proposal during the last referendum and thinking this is totally unrealistic. Talk of simply absorbing UK military personnel and bases as part of a new Scottish army, retaining the pound, taking control of oil and off shore resources..

Fantasy. England and Wales won't just go 'oh see you later, fill your boots, bye'.

 

[Eire Red United]

If Scotland leave they will lose the pound.

I'm pretty sick of Sturgeon and her rhetoric. The nation is in crisis with regards to brexit and she sees it as an opportunity to push her own agenda again. The last vote wasn't even close. You can't keep having them until she gets her own way FFS.

The last vote was hugely influenced by the fact people saw staying in the UK as a way of staying in the EU, that if Scotland left the UK they would not be accepted back into the EU or at least face a difficult re-entry process. Now that the situation is reversed and Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will, another referendum has to be on the cards. Brexit is a game changer. Same with a border poll in Ireland.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

twa bob

Combine that with the money I have, plus the additional cash from our secret partner who wishes to remain anonymous (@SteveJ ) And I think we have about £2.50.

fecking ready to take over the world, lads!

 

[SteveJ]

Hey! Are you using the fiver you promised me n' Olly to fund your battered tea cakes corporation?!?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Hey! Are you using the fiver you promised me n' Olly to fund your battered tea cakes corporation?!?

Of course not! I'm an entrepreneur who has many fingers in many pies. I also have a pie making project but unfortunately it went bust because people didn't like the finger shaped wholes in all the pies. Dunno who was doing that though...

 

[SteveJ]

This is like the Great Rock n' Roll Swindle...only with battered tea cakes.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I think they'd have a large majority who would want to remain part of the UK given how much of a mess brexit has been. Why would they want to go through something similar?

There's lots for Scotland to think about if they truly want to leave as they won't get any favours from England when it comes to making it easy. I recall looking at independent Scotland's proposal during the last referendum and thinking this is totally unrealistic. Talk of simply absorbing UK military personnel and bases as part of a new Scottish army, retaining the pound, taking control of oil and off shore resources..

Fantasy. England and Wales won't just go 'oh see you later, fill your boots, bye'.

There's only one air base left in Scotland so that would take care of that problem. No idea about army. Unless the UK government are going to argue that their underinvestment in security North of the border hasn't been enough and want to claw that base back as well.

Off shore resources; aren't they defined by international law? So the UK Government could argue their case but it would really mean bugger all.

But, regardless, if one things been made certain in the last four or five crazy years it's that facts don't matter anyway. People will vote with their guts. If Sturgeon says that she's going to get the Elizabeth Tower as part of a divorce deal then people will believe it simply because they want to.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

So we ignore the SNP when it said the independence vote was a once in a generation thing.

We ignore the basic democratic argument that if you get a vote in the outcome you are bound by that outcome.

We ignore the SNP plan based on 100 dollars a barrel oil and just how catastrophic that lie would have been to most people and the budget North of the border if they voted leave last time.

Following an independence vote the UK would apply the same leave logic as the EU has to the UK. Scotland pays to leave, gets none of the assets, the UK pays none of the pensions of people in Scotland etc etc.

Then Spain blocks Scotland joining the EU because of its problems with Catalonia or the EU does because of its deficit spending.

 

[TheReligion]

There's only one air base left in Scotland so that would take care of that problem. No idea about army. Unless the UK government are going to argue that their underinvestment in security North of the border hasn't been enough and want to claw that base back as well.

Off shore resources; aren't they defined by international law? So the UK Government could argue their case but it would really mean bugger all.

But, regardless, if one things been made certain in the last four or five crazy years it's that facts don't matter anyway. People will vote with their guts. If Sturgeon says that she's going to get the Elizabeth Tower as part of a divorce deal then people will believe it simply because they want to.

With regards to the oil, the installations are owned by British companies or those with major British stakeholders. They wont just be handed over to Scotland with a bow attached and nothing more said. If Scotland wish to leave it will be they seeking a deal and as such it is they who will be cap in hand to the rest of the Union with regards to key matters such as currency, military, infrastructure and economy. It will be far from easy and nothing like just taking what Sturgeon and co think is theirs.

 

[TheReligion]

So we ignore the SNP when it said the independence vote was a once in a generation thing.

We ignore the basic democratic argument that if you get a vote in the outcome you are bound by that outcome.

We ignore the SNP plan based on 100 dollars a barrel oil and just how catastrophic that lie would have been to most people and the budget North of the border if they voted leave last time.

Following an independence vote the UK would apply the same leave logic as the EU has to the UK. Scotland pays to leave, gets none of the assets, the UK pays none of the pensions of people in Scotland etc etc.

Then Spain blocks Scotland joining the EU because of its problems with Catalonia or the EU does because of its deficit spending.

Exactly this. This would be brexit part two and I really don't see how Scotland comes out of it any better whichever way you try and spin it. The whole Scottish independence idea seems based on the expectation of getting everything they desire from the Union with the added bonus of being able to more align to the EU (if the rest of the Union leaves). It's a total fantasy when you consider how brexit negotiations have gone. If Scotland insists it wishes to leave then they will be on their own.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Exactly this. This would be brexit part two and I really don't see how Scotland comes out of it any better whichever way you try and spin it. The whole Scottish independence idea seems based on the expectation of getting everything they desire from the Union with the added bonus of being able to more align to the EU (if the rest of the Union leaves). It's a total fantasy when you consider how brexit negotiations have gone. If Scotland insists it wishes to leave then they will be on their own.

Not being funny but the alternative seems to be that we're on our own anyway, like large parts of England, Wales and Northern Ireland who are represented by a Government who desire a different Britain to what we vote for.

Nobody should be saying that it'll be easy, but when there's a clear lack of representation from your own Government in Westminster and a feeling of alienation and often ridicule, when compared to Holyrood which for all its faults still acts like it gives a shit about the country, the argument isn't just an economic one. To only see that side of it is one of the biggest reasons why we're at this point in the first place.

 

[balaks]

Not being funny but the alternative seems to be that we're on our own anyway, like large parts of England, Wales and Northern Ireland who are represented by a Government who desire a different Britain to what we vote for.

Nobody should be saying that it'll be easy, but when there's a clear lack of representation from your own Government in Westminster and a feeling of alienation and often ridicule, when compared to Holyrood which for all its faults still acts like it gives a shit about the country, the argument isn't just an economic one. To only see that side of it is one of the biggest reasons why we're at this point in the first place.

You hit the nail on the head here.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Pah, it just means we get to keep all the Tunnocks Tea Cakes and battered Mars bars to ourselves

Wait a second... Battered Tea Cakes. Alto; how much money do you have available for a wee start up business I'm planning?!?!

Don't forget the wafers mate! I love that Tunnoch's is my town's claim to fame

Given events of the last 3 years it is entirely possible I believe. It may be that the chaos of Brexit makes further change unpalatable but equally the anger at the direction of the UK is palpable.

I can easily see the vote being completely different this time. Brexit has totally changed the game.

Huh? There was a 5% difference. The situation we have with Brexit is very very shit as we all know and is more than enough to sway that 5% and more to independence. Myself and a lot of people I know didn't choose independence last time as there wasn't a solid plan and it was mostly based on nationalistic pride but now that has definitely changed thanks to England.
Every council in Scotland voted to remain in the EU. 62% Remain and 38% Leave if you look at the numbers.

Agreed on all points mate. I voted to Remain last time but I can certainly understand people's anger up here about the absolute clusterfeck that has been the last 3 years. No idea what's going to happen moving forward.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Not being funny but the alternative seems to be that we're on our own anyway, like large parts of England, Wales and Northern Ireland who are represented by a Government who desire a different Britain to what we vote for.

Nobody should be saying that it'll be easy, but when there's a clear lack of representation from your own Government in Westminster and a feeling of alienation and often ridicule, when compared to Holyrood which for all its faults still acts like it gives a shit about the country, the argument isn't just an economic one. To only see that side of it is one of the biggest reasons why we're at this point in the first place.

Agreed.

 

[Spiersey]

If it goes ahead, I'd be pretty surprised if we voted Remain again. Amongst people my age (the 18-24) gen, a decent shift from Remain to Leave has definitely come since the whole Brexit fiasco. Would definitely be a sizable number that would be swayed by that alone.

 

[Damien]

Here's her speech, that was bound to happen with Brexit being a mess, wasn't it?


What do you think fellow Caftards, especially those from Scotland - can you see the actual independence happening now?

As someone who bet on Trump and Leave winning, I'll be very surprised if Scotland don't vote Yes in the next IndyRef. Brexit sealed the deal on that.

 

[The Boy]

The pound would drop like a stone if Scotland swapped out in favor of the Euro.

Or would they keep the pound?

They wouldn't meet any of the qualifications for the EU entry/Euro so initially would definitely keep the pound. But plans have been floated by the SNP for Scotland to have it's own currency eventually, dunno how realistic that is though

If Scotland leave they will lose the pound.

Um no they won't dunno where you get from

 

[Mr Pigeon]

But plans have been floated by the SNP for Scotland to have it's own currency eventually, dunno how realistic that is though

The Airse. One Pound = One Airse. Dig into your back pocket and grab a handful of airses. English petrol station refuses to take it? "It's legal tender. Airse." 1 Airse Note has a picture of Boris Johnson being used as a water raft down a flume by Alex Salmond and Sir Billy Connolly. Pence denomination would be called the Pence and have a picture of Mike Pence on it being tag teamed by a group of greased up clones of Willie from The Simpsons.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The Airse. One Pound = One Airse. Dig into your back pocket and grab a handful of airses. English petrol station refuses to take it? "It's legal tender. Airse." 1 Airse Note has a picture of Boris Johnson being used as a water raft down a flume by Alex Salmond and Sir Billy Connolly. Pence denomination would be called the Pence and have a picture of Mike Pence on it being tag teamed by a group of greased up clones of Willie from The Simpsons.

I endorse this

 

[B20]

This thread is relevant again I guess.

What kind of options will they have for forcing another election, given that Johnson will almost certainly try to block it?