NFL Thread

Wednesday at Stoke said:
He played a grand total of 27 college games and QB is a position that's most protected in the sport at every level. I can understand if he was a slot receiver, tight end or running back.
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He also played 12 games in Junior College football after leaving Clemson, and around 30 games of high school football and probably another 30 games of football at youth levels below that.

I’m waiting for them to find CTE in guys who never played college football.
 
Carolina Red said:
He also played 12 games in Junior College football after leaving Clemson, and around 30 games of high school football and probably another 30 games of football at youth levels below that.

I’m waiting for them to find CTE in guys who never played college football.
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If someone can find a way to reliably diagnose CTE from things that are not post mortem brain tissues, they will make a fortune.
 
HTG said:
Great read. Kids should not be allowed or even encouraged to play this sport. It’s child abuse.
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Tell that to a talented teenager who would otherwise end up in poverty, jail or a coffin before the age of 30.
 
RobinLFC said:
Tell that to a talented teenager who would otherwise end up in poverty, jail or a coffin before the age of 30.
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That‘s a weird argument. No matter the circumstances of once life, it’s always better to protect a child of a disease that severe and painful.
Schools shouldn’t even be allowed to offer the sport anymore. No one can keep adults from doing it, but it should in no way be encouraged or even payed for with taxes.
 
RobinLFC said:
Tell that to a talented teenager who would otherwise end up in poverty, jail or a coffin before the age of 30.
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Most of them still end up that way. The pyramid is so small. I used to play pickup basketball with a guy who played D3 and he wasnt even a star at that level. You wouldn't believe how much better he was than anyone else on the court when playing against normal people.

Every player who makes it to the pros was the best player on their high school team and then they went to college and played with people who were also the best on their teams and still managed to be the best. Then only the best of the best of the best even make it to warm the bench in the pros. There are so many players whose bodies were destroyed for football and they never got a single paycheck from it.
 
I think the US might arrive at a point, where they find out that the impact of football on society as a whole, is as severe, or close to, the impact lead had.
 
Banning playing the game as a child is not the right approach.

Instead, continuing to thoughtfully develop rules which protect players but also the game, changing the way youths play the game (limiting contact / use of pads and helmets until an appropriate age), teaching players how to tackle properly as they learn the game, and continuing to invest and develop technology which improves safety, research, and knowledge, is where investment should be made by the sport.

Now, it’s a sport. The vast majority of sports come at a risk. People do things in all forms of life which cause harm or put their body at risk. For a living, or for entertainment.

The focus should be on providing appropriate knowledge to those involved so they can make informed choices. In the case of a child, partially that is to be provided to the parents. But also to coaches and anyone else involved. And importantly, because a child can’t make a proper decision by themselves, it’s absolutely imperative that at a young age, the rules go above and beyond to focus on safety first. If that means deploying rules which have a consequential impact on the pro and college game then so be it.

The real issue, for me, is how the NFL makes the right signals but the reality is they’re still pushing it away as if it doesn’t exist. A minor point but, for example, you’ll never see a concussion injury in madden. Because the game is forced to not have one by the NFL. Yet, it’s probably the games most common injury. That tells you everything you need to know about the NFLs attitude to CTE.
 
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While it’s less than 1% of kids who end up playing professionally, you do have a lot of kids who end up able to get a college education because of football that otherwise wouldn’t have.

That’s going to be a hard hurdle to overcome to just say “ban it”.

I do however believe that my football coaching career will be ended by the gradual decline of the sport in this county rather than by my retirement.
 
Carolina Red said:
While it’s less than 1% of kids who end up playing professionally, you do have a lot of kids who end up able to get a college education because of football that otherwise wouldn’t have.

That’s going to be a hard hurdle to overcome to just say “ban it”.

I do however believe that my football coaching career will be ended by the gradual decline of the sport in this county rather than by my retirement.
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Can't see it happening to be honest, the NFL is too big and probably too important commercially/economically to ever cease to exist.
 
Hephaestus said:
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Cooper has had little to work with in that time and next draft may be over loaded with wide receivers but nothing spectacular among them .

Cooper is easily better than anything you will get in that position
 
lsd said:
Cooper has had little to work with in that time and next draft may be over loaded with wide receivers but nothing spectacular among them .

Cooper is easily better than anything you will get in that position
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He seems like he's had little to work with because he drops a ridiculous amount of passes, led the entire league in drops last year. Calvin Ridley was a first round pick last year, has more yards, TDs etc this year and has a contract that will pay him less over four years than Cooper will cost next year.
 
rpitroda said:
Banning playing the game as a child is not the right approach.

Instead, continuing to thoughtfully develop rules which protect players but also the game, changing the way youths play the game (limiting contact / use of pads and helmets until an appropriate age), teaching players how to tackle properly as they learn the game, and continuing to invest and develop technology which improves safety, research, and knowledge, is where investment should be made by the sport.

Now, it’s a sport. The vast majority of sports come at a risk. People do things in all forms of life which cause harm or put their body at risk. For a living, or for entertainment.

The focus should be on providing appropriate knowledge to those involved so they can make informed choices. In the case of a child, partially that is to be provided to the parents. But also to coaches and anyone else involved. And importantly, because a child can’t make a proper decision by themselves, it’s absolutely imperative that at a young age, the rules go above and beyond to focus on safety first. If that means deploying rules which have a consequential impact on the pro and college game then so be it.

The real issue, for me, is how the NFL makes the right signals but the reality is they’re still pushing it away as if it doesn’t exist. A minor point but, for example, you’ll never see a concussion injury in madden. Because the game is forced to not have one by the NFL. Yet, it’s probably the games most common injury. That tells you everything you need to know about the NFLs attitude to CTE.
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I‘m sorry if I come of harsh, but that post reads like pure denial of the severe realities of brain trauma and football. It’s not about tackling safer, it never was. That’s just an incredibly small part of it. Offensive linemen don’t tackle. Yet they do suffer from CTE too. It’s not the tackles, it’s all the small things that add up.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...-this-players-skull-football-concussions.html

An offensive lineman basically crashes into a wall at a speed of 30mph about 60 times per game. The game in itself is the issue, not just aspects of it. There is no safe way to do this. There is no safe way for offensive linemen to block. Not to my knowledge, at least.
The equipment might be improved further, but the equipment itself is part of the issue and should be abolished. Players shouldn’t wear pads or helmets. They get misused as armour. They make it even worse.

The game is inherently violent. That’s the issue. You can’t play football, without screwing up your brain. And it’s not like at other sports. It’s not a normal sacrifice to make. I’ve had my fair share of injuries and am now at a point, where I can’t play most sports. I still live a normal life. If I had played football, I wouldn’t be able to do that. My brain wouldn’t work. It’s what defines me as a human.
It is irresponsible and cruel to make children play a game, that is so violent and causes that much damage to their brains. Not just their bodies, but the brain. If you let children play football, you sentence them to a life of pain, fear, anger and urges they can’t control. It’s a life deprived of dignity and the most basic human enjoyments.
With what we know about the effects of football on people, we know enough to arrive at the conclusion, that parents who let their kids play, or even make them play, are completely irresponsible and basically abusing their kids. There’s no nice way to put it.

You can’t keep an informed adult from doing this. But kids should never be allowed to. Schools shouldn’t be funding this. Taxpayers shouldn’t pay for it. Period.
It’s like tobacco, asbestos, lead paint and all the other things once normal, now slowly but steadily being abolished or at least heavily regulated.


And in regard to other arguments: scholarships should just be awarded to those in need, not to athletes. That whole system is completely screwed up anyway. It’s not like those players actually get much of an education.


I know it sounds harsh, but the sooner we accept that this sport shouldn’t be played by kids, the better. The sooner we realize the incredible damage we are causing innocent children, the better. We’re in denial, as a community of fans. We love this sport and won’t accept, that it’s inherently flawed and bad. I struggle with it myself. But that’s the bitter truth and it’s time to act. Millions of kids in the US will never live a normal life due to this game.

Football is popular because of its inherent violence and that’s precisely why it’s bad. That’s the issue here.
 
HTG said:
I‘m sorry if I come of harsh, but that post reads like pure denial of the severe realities of brain trauma and football. It’s not about tackling safer, it never was. That’s just an incredibly small part of it. Offensive linemen don’t tackle. Yet they do suffer from CTE too. It’s not the tackles, it’s all the small things that add up.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...-this-players-skull-football-concussions.html

An offensive lineman basically crashes into a wall at a speed of 30mph about 60 times per game. The game in itself is the issue, not just aspects of it. There is no safe way to do this. There is no safe way for offensive linemen to block. Not to my knowledge, at least.
The equipment might be improved further, but the equipment itself is part of the issue and should be abolished. Players shouldn’t wear pads or helmets. They get misused as armour. They make it even worse.

The game is inherently violent. That’s the issue. You can’t play football, without screwing up your brain. And it’s not like at other sports. It’s not a normal sacrifice to make. I’ve had my fair share of injuries and am now at a point, where I can’t play most sports. I still live a normal life. If I had played football, I wouldn’t be able to do that. My brain wouldn’t work. It’s what defines me as a human.
It is irresponsible and cruel to make children play a game, that is so violent and causes that much damage to their brains. Not just their bodies, but the brain. If you let children play football, you sentence them to a life of pain, fear, anger and urges they can’t control. It’s a life deprived of dignity and the most basic human enjoyments.
With what we know about the effects of football on people, we know enough to arrive at the conclusion, that parents who let their kids play, or even make them play, are completely irresponsible and basically abusing their kids. There’s no nice way to put it.

You can’t keep an informed adult from doing this. But kids should never be allowed to. Schools shouldn’t be funding this. Taxpayers shouldn’t pay for it. Period.
It’s like tobacco, asbestos, lead paint and all the other things once normal, now slowly but steadily being abolished or at least heavily regulated.


And in regard to other arguments: scholarships should just be awarded to those in need, not to athletes. That whole system is completely screwed up anyway. It’s not like those players actually get much of an education.


I know it sounds harsh, but the sooner we accept that this sport shouldn’t be played by kids, the better. The sooner we realize the incredible damage we are causing innocent children, the better. We’re in denial, as a community of fans. We love this sport and won’t accept, that it’s inherently flawed and bad. I struggle with it myself. But that’s the bitter truth and it’s time to act. Millions of kids in the US will never live a normal life due to this game.

Football is popular because of its inherent violence and that’s precisely why it’s bad. That’s the issue here.
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No harshness taken.

But, fundamentally, nothing in my post suggests that I don’t understand or am ignorant to the trauma that occurs. I’m very well aware, thanks.

However, I just don’t see how a ban is even in the realms of reality. It just isn’t going to happen. Therefore, it’s more important to look at how to fix the issues. That’s not me being ignorant to it. It’s just me thinking, if we can’t ban it, we need to tackle it any other way we can.

Your point on o-line is valid. As is your point on players using equipment like armour. Removing such equipment, actually, could be a viable long term solution. But, like you say, the sport is inherently violent. You take away the equipment, and let’s even hypothesise that once doing so players tackle and play completely rationally. The nature of the sport means you’ll still have collisions. And without the equipment, they could actually be fatal immediately.

I don’t know the solution. Perhaps a ban is what is, truly, needed. But I just don’t see it happening. Maybe the sport fizzles out because eventually parents say no is no. But it can only happen naturally. Remember this is the country that elected Trump, sees gun legislation and healthcare legislation as acts of Satan, and generally revolts at any idea of banning anything. I just can’t see it happening, whether it’s right or wrong.

So I don’t think, as a fan, I am trying to pretend it doesn’t exist. Or trying to deny the severity of it. I fully am aware. Just, I can’t see how a ban comes to fruition. General nature of the population, add the NFL which is disgusting in its actions around CTE (which shows the lengths it’ll go to quash this), add college football, add how intrinsically the sport is currently linked to American life, and add all the companies which have a vested interest in the sport and brands, you get a concoction which, in my eyes, makes a ban impossible in the short term.

As @Carolina Red said, it is much more likely the sport fizzles out itself than a ban occurring, whether a ban is the correct course of action or not.
 
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rpitroda said:
No harshness taken.

But, fundamentally, nothing in my post suggests that I don’t understand or am ignorant to the trauma that occurs. I’m very well aware, thanks.

However, I just don’t see how a ban is even in the realms of reality. It just isn’t going to happen. Therefore, it’s more important to look at how to fix the issues.

Your point on o-line is valid. As is your point on players using equipment like armour. Removing such equipment, actually, could be a viable long term solution. But, like you say, the sport is inherently violent. You take away the equipment, and let’s even hypothesise that once doing so players tackle and play completely rationally. The nature of the sport means you’ll still have collisions. And without the equipment, they could actually be fatal immediately.

I don’t know the solution. Perhaps a ban is what is, truly, needed. But I just don’t see it happening. Maybe the sport fizzles out because eventually parents say no is no. But it can only happen naturally. Remember this is the country that elected Trump, sees gun legislation and healthcare legislation as acts of Satan, and generally revolts at any idea of banning anything. I just can’t see it happening, whether it’s right or wrong.
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I get that. But I’m sure it’ll happen. It happened with tobacco. It’s happening with alcohol. It happened with asbestos and with lead. We learn, take an awful long time to do something about, but in the end, we will do something about it. There will be a time and I have no idea when that might be, when people will look in history books, read about football and shake their heads, because of the sheer ignorance and stupidity necessary, to think this is a good pastime activity.
It’s like when I watch Mad Men and laugh my ass of, because everyone is constantly smoking and drinking, without batting an eye. That was so deeply entrenched in society, nobody would have believed you, if you told them that by today, you’d be thrown out of a bar for smoking. But that’s where we are. Culture changes and in this case it can’t change fast enough.
 
HTG said:
I get that. But I’m sure it’ll happen. It happened with tobacco. It’s happening with alcohol. It happened with asbestos and with lead. We learn, take an awful long time to do something about, but in the end, we will do something about it. There will be a time and I have no idea when that might be, when people will look in history books, read about football and shake their heads, because of the sheer ignorance and stupidity necessary, to think this is a good pastime activity.
It’s like when I watch Mad Men and laugh my ass of, because everyone is constantly smoking and drinking, without batting an eye. That was so deeply entrenched in society, nobody would have believed you, if you told them that by today, you’d be thrown out of a bar for smoking. But that’s where we are. Culture changes and in this case it can’t change fast enough.
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Things like Tobacco and asbestos etc. can’t really be applied here though. They are pervasive things which were used in ways detrimental to pretty much everyone.

Football is different. People enjoy watching it. It pays well. You don’t get paid to smoke, or put asbestos in ceiling tiles. You don’t enjoy watching someone else smoke, or put asbestos in ceiling tiles.

The things you mention are things everyone thought were perfectly fine, and instead turned out not to be. I don’t think anyone ever thought football was completely safe. Yes far more light is on it now because of CTE and all the evidence. And that’s why I’m inclined to think participation will gradually fall off. But just don’t see a ban happening.

Also as an aside, if your views on this are so strong, how can you watch the sport?
 
HTG said:
An offensive lineman basically crashes into a wall at a speed of 30mph about 60 times per game.
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You’ve got a point, no doubt. Now just think about folks who play both ways.

I was an OL and a linebacker. I averaged around 120 plays a game, doing that for 4 years in high school.

HTG said:
It’s not like those players actually get much of an education.
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This, however, I disagree with. You’ve got a helluva lot of players in the NFL with degrees, some of them with graduate and post graduate degrees. Then you’ve got exponentially more than that in the workforce now with degrees afforded them by athletic scholarship.
 
rpitroda said:
Things like Tobacco and asbestos etc. can’t really be applied here though. They are pervasive things which were used in ways detrimental to pretty much everyone.

Football is different. People enjoy watching it. It pays well. You don’t get paid to smoke, or put asbestos in ceiling tiles. You don’t enjoy watching someone else smoke, or put asbestos in ceiling tiles.

The things you mention are things everyone thought were perfectly fine, and instead turned out not to be. I don’t think anyone ever thought football was completely safe. Yes far more light is on it now because of CTE and all the evidence. And that’s why I’m inclined to think participation will gradually fall off. But just don’t see a ban happening.

Also as an aside, if your views on this are so strong, how can you watch the sport?
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Nobody knew, thought or expected, that more of 99% of all ex players brains would show symptoms of one of the worst brain diseases known to us. That is both much worse and concerning more people, than most likely ever expected.
I think it’s fair to say, that it wasn’t clear on what scale and how severe it would be.

I struggle, actually. But I tell myself that those who are playing in the NFL, are at least adults and now actually know about the damage caused. If they decide to play, at least that’s what I tell myself, it’s ok for me to watch.
But I’m not actually sure wether I will keep watching. I’m just not ready to give it up yet.
 
Carolina Red said:
You’ve got a point, no doubt. Now just think about folks who play both ways.

I was an OL and a linebacker. I averaged around 120 plays a game, doing that for 4 years in high school.


This, however, I disagree with. You’ve got a helluva lot of players in the NFL with degrees, some of them with graduate and post graduate degrees. Then you’ve got exponentially more than that in the workforce now with degrees afforded them by athletic scholarship.
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If I may ask, are you ever afraid you have it? I know myself, I would worry all the time about it.

Im going by what guys like Rochard Sherman say. They are unpaid pros who work a full time job. The scholastic aspects of it are very often more or less a cover up for an exploitive business.
And even if they got an education out of it, the scholarships don’t need to go away. They just don’t have to be awarded for playing a violent and extremely damaging sport.
One could even go as far as to consider those scholarships in itself exploitation. If I make someone do something so harmful, painful and damaging, because he’s in economical difficulties or has no real perspective, that’s morally repulsive.
 
Carolina Red said:
Thing is, you basically must put in the time in high school and college to make it there.
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Obviously. That’s how it’s now and that’s what should be stopped. They shouldn’t start before 18. But those in the NFL now know about the dangers and still play. That’s what I tell myself. I know that there are many flaws in that argument. But as I said, I‘m not yet ready to quit. But the distance to the game grows constantly.
 
HTG said:
If I may ask, are you ever afraid you have it? I know myself, I would worry all the time about it.

Im going by what guys like Rochard Sherman say. They are unpaid pros who work a full time job. The scholastic aspects of it are very often more or less a cover up for an exploitive business.
And even if they got an education out of it, the scholarships don’t need to go away. They just don’t have to be awarded for playing a violent and extremely damaging sport.
One could even go as far as to consider those scholarships in itself exploitation. If I make someone do something so harmful, painful and damaging, because he’s in economical difficulties or has no real perspective, that’s morally repulsive.
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It’s why I said I’ll be a customer if anyone ever figured not out how to diagnose it before death. I’m not going to be surprised if I end up having it. I took a lot of hits that back then were called “getting your bell rung” that now would be called “getting concussed”, which I played through in practice and games. To top that off, I had 3 diagnosed concussions. I never missed a game or practice for any of them, which apparently makes it worse. And I’m not painting some unique “tough guy” case... we all did that back then. That’s just how we were taught to be.

As it stands, if football goes away, so do the scholarships. They’re funded by football revenue. You won’t have one without the other.
 
HTG said:
Nobody knew, thought or expected, that more of 99% of all ex players brains would show symptoms of one of the worst brain diseases known to us. That is both much worse and concerning more people, than most likely ever expected.
I think it’s fair to say, that it wasn’t clear on what scale and how severe it would be.

I struggle, actually. But I tell myself that those who are playing in the NFL, are at least adults and now actually know about the damage caused. If they decide to play, at least that’s what I tell myself, it’s ok for me to watch.
But I’m not actually sure wether I will keep watching. I’m just not ready to give it up yet.
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Is this factual?
 
Carolina Red said:
It’s why I said I’ll be a customer if anyone ever figured not out how to diagnose it before death. I’m not going to be surprised if I end up having it. I took a lot of hits that back then were called “getting your bell rung” that now would be called “getting concussed”, which I played through in practice and games. To top that off, I had 3 diagnosed concussions. I never missed a game or practice for any of them, which apparently makes it worse. And I’m not painting some unique “tough guy” case... we all did that back then. That’s just how we were taught to be.

As it stands, if football goes away, so do the scholarships. They’re funded by football revenue. You won’t have one without the other.
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That sounds pretty heavy, but the culture around it is exactly what I‘d have expected.

If they would go away, it would be sad. But necessary. Using those scholarships to get people to do something that damaging, is simply wrong.
 
HTG said:
That sounds pretty heavy, but the culture around it is exactly what I‘d have expected.

If they would go away, it would be sad. But necessary. Using those scholarships to get people to do something that damaging, is simply wrong.
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That’s the other thing though... you don’t go through all you’ve gotta go through to make it to college or the NFL without doing it out of love for the game.

I played through all that because I loved it. I knew I was too small to play after high school.
 
Carolina Red said:
That’s the other thing though... you don’t go through all you’ve gotta go through to make it to college or the NFL without doing it out of love for the game.

I played through all that because I loved it. I knew I was too small to play after high school.
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I know many people love it. I absolutely get it. That’s where my fascination for the sport comes from. I always wished I could have actually played, but it’s not that easy to do around here.
And I haven’t even played it myself, have no cultural background where it is important or even relevant, and yet I struggle so badly with stopping to watch. It must be much, much worse of you’ve actually played it and grew up with it.
 
HTG said:
It must be much, much worse of you’ve actually played it and grew up with it.
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It’s definitely a love-hate thing.

Science is proving it is bad, but I love the game, and I am paid to coach it... I spend about 40 hours a week for 1/3 of the year teaching this game. At the same time, I worry about these kids.

The good thing is that the rate of concussion is definitely dropping. When I started coaching about a decade ago, we had something like 10-15 kids miss time from concussion. That’s down to less than 5 this year. Most programs in the state have seen stats like that happen. Granted, that doesn’t fix the “OL problem” you brought up.
 
How was Eli able to change teams in 2004? Feel like that wouldn’t happen if you weren’t from a famous football family.
 
Kazi said:
How was Eli able to change teams in 2004? Feel like that wouldn’t happen if you weren’t from a famous football family.
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He said he didn’t want to play in San Diego.

SD made a deal with NY that they’d draft Eli (#1 pick), then NY would draft Rivers (#4 pick), then they’d trade them to one another.

Not to mention the fact that Eli’s agent was also agent to Drew Brees and LT at the time and was pushing Manning not to go to SD.
 
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That OPI catch by Nuk :eek: best receiver in the league right now. And the Texans go 5-3 :drool:

Hopefully the Eagles do the business in London Sunday afternoon.
 
Kazi said:
How was Eli able to change teams in 2004? Feel like that wouldn’t happen if you weren’t from a famous football family.
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This is worth a watch. Doesn't really explain it though, but Eli comes across as a puppet.
Special mention to Big Ben's agent who acts really weird during the draft.
 
AFC South so lucky to have got Nfc and Afc east as opponents this season. So many winnable games during the regular season. Whoever wins AFC South will get crushed by Chargers /Ravens/Bengals in the wc round
 
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