NFL 2023

Andrade said:
Now Burrow is gone, there is no one in the AFC that KC need fear. Maybe only Buffalo if they make it but there's every chance they will miss the playoffs altogether. I think Lamar is exceptional but he can't yet be trusted in the postseason. Who else is there? Miami?! Come on....
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A sad truth. No matter how many quality QBs the AFC has, I simply don't trust the likes of Allen, Lamar, Tua, Lawrence, Herbert to get a W over Mahomes in the playoffs.

I'd actually maybe have Russell Wilson as the most reliable option given his and Payton's combined experience.

If only the Steelers had a good QB.
 
RobinLFC said:
Yeah meant Utd :lol:

Broncos have been good yeah, most of them close wins but got them over the line and Russell Wilson's play has been underrated this season. Think they did well to keep a hold of all of PS2, Jeudy and Sutton.

Just one game out of a playoff spot at the moment. If you look at the schedule:

vs Browns (DTR at QB)
@ Texans
@ Chargers
@ Lions
vs Pats
vs Chargers
@ Raiders

Browns, Pats and Raiders are must-win games imo. Split the series with the Chargers and maybe lose at the Texans and Lions, that puts them at 9-8. Not sure that will get them in but they will be close.
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Definitely some winnable games in there, hopefully the loss to the commanders doesn’t end up being decisive, that one was really annoying.

I’m not really convinced how sustainable the current performances are anyway. The defence seems to be coming away with a lot of interceptions at the moment which feels unlikely to carry on. The receivers are making some fantastic catches, and they’re still relying on weird shit happening late in games to win :lol:

That said, I’m just enjoying the games without really caring too much about play off implications.
 
Dan_F said:
Definitely some winnable games in there, hopefully the loss to the commanders doesn’t end up being decisive, that one was really annoying.

I’m not really convinced how sustainable the current performances are anyway. The defence seems to be coming away with a lot of interceptions at the moment which feels unlikely to carry on. The receivers are making some fantastic catches, and they’re still relying on weird shit happening late in games to win :lol:

That said, I’m just enjoying the games without really caring too much about play off implications.
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As you should!

But you're right about the INTs by the way. Broncos are +11(!) in turnover differential during the 4-game win streak but only have a +20 points differential.

If you win a turnover battle 3-0 like against the Vikings last weekend, you really should be winning the game more comfortably.
 
MrMarcello said:
The flip side to that is it can also show the QB didn't feck up in the 4th quarter, but that would go against your bizarre obsession with Brady.
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Too bad Brees and co didn't just will their defence to be better
 
RobinLFC said:
A sad truth. No matter how many quality QBs the AFC has, I simply don't trust the likes of Allen, Lamar, Tua, Lawrence, Herbert to get a W over Mahomes in the playoffs.

I'd actually maybe have Russell Wilson as the most reliable option given his and Payton's combined experience.

If only the Steelers had a good QB.
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Exactly. And now KC have a defense that can put the clamps on an opposing QB. Plus they ha e the confidence of already being champions. It's going to be like child's play in the postseason. I suspect that KC will win every playoff game by multiple scores, including the Superb Owl.

You saw the signs in the Philly game. Could easily have been a dominant victory for KC but they beat themselves.
 
Andrade said:
Exactly. And now KC have a defense that can put the clamps on an opposing QB. Plus they ha e the confidence of already being champions. It's going to be like child's play in the postseason. I suspect that KC will win every playoff game by multiple scores, including the Superb Owl.

You saw the signs in the Philly game. Could easily have been a dominant victory for KC but they beat themselves.
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Don't think that it's so straight forward. Even last season they needed close wins against the Bengals & the superbowl. Yes if you look at Sunday in isolation then you can say that they dominated and should have won big but in reality this is how they have played all season. They have the second highest drop percentage in the league, they also lead the league in offensive holding penalties and their average depth of target in passing is one of the lowest in the league. Mahomes is carrying the offence on his own
 
calodo2003 said:
It was.

To have that much of a disparity, it's impossible that the defense alone accounted for all the lead holds. The QB was playing a key role in them as well.
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I used to be on the side of 'it's Belichick's defenses, not Brady' for much of the last 20 years, but since they split, I've changed my view. Belichick has just never done anything as a HC without Brady, though we all accept he can coach defense. Also, his 'coaching tree' has produced such rancid, rotten fruit, that one can't help but think that the fabled 'Patiot Way' was really the 'Brady way'.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Don't think that it's so straight forward. Even last season they needed close wins against the Bengals & the superbowl. Yes if you look at Sunday in isolation then you can say that they dominated and should have won big but in reality this is how they have played all season. They have the second highest drop percentage in the league, they also lead the league in offensive holding penalties and their average depth of target in passing is one of the lowest in the league. Mahomes is carrying the offence on his own
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Regular season and playoffs are different though. They will crush teams in the postseason. The offense is exactly the same personnel as last seasonexcept for Juju (who is not exactly Calvin Johnson). I suspect Rice, Toney and McKinnon will be much more involved come the playoffs (if everyone is healthy).

I mean, for all the negative things you've listed, they're still basically the number one seed in the AFC (they've played one less game than the Ravens and hold the tiebreaker over them). That should tell you something
 
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I'm not as hot on the Chiefs getting to the Super Bowl as some others in this thread. It's obviously a very realistic possibility but as it stands right now our offense is a huge concern. Many of us (me included) thought that the early issues at WR would gradually be fixed by Mahomes and Reid. If you look back at us in the Mahomes era and how we've sorted most teething offensive issues by the playoffs, you would also assume that these problems would get sorted. But there's no signs of improvement.

Drops happen. We haven't got the best, a good or even an average receiving corps. But even with a set of drop happy receivers we shouldn't be this bad. It's the fundamentals that are all wrong. If you look back at our snaps you'll often see a couple of our receivers completely unaware that the ball has snapped, they're a second late on their route and when Mahomes goes through his progressions half of his receivers aren't where they should be. It also looks like they don't have the mental ability to attack the space and deviate from a planned route when there's an opposing CB occupying the space they've been dialed in to head to.

As someone wise once said: When the opportunity presents itself, why not go for it? Why not attack the space when it opens up?

We've also got this strange WR committee going on that has dogshit players like Skyy Moore having the same amount of snaps as our genuine threats like Rashee Rice. If you look at the other top offenses in the league they'll have at least 1 WR with 90% of snaps.

There's still plenty of positives to take from how we've played this year. Our defense looks like a top 3 defense with our linebackers and CBs being particularly impressive. Spags has gone even more blitz heavy this year and it's working wonders. The depth at LB is so good that we didn't miss Nick Bolton (who I think is our best player on defense) against the Eagles.

Still got my fingers crossed that something happens to fix our offense but in the playoffs any team can put up 20+ on you and not I'm confident we will be able to outscore that.

Woe is me, a long suffering Chiefs fan.
 
P-Ro said:
I'm not as hot on the Chiefs getting to the Super Bowl as some others in this thread. It's obviously a very realistic possibility but as it stands right now our offense is a huge concern. Many of us (me included) thought that the early issues at WR would gradually be fixed by Mahomes and Reid. If you look back at us in the Mahomes era and how we've sorted most teething offensive issues by the playoffs, you would also assume that these problems would get sorted. But there's no signs of improvement.

Drops happen. We haven't got the best, a good or even an average receiving corps. But even with a set of drop happy receivers we shouldn't be this bad. It's the fundamentals that are all wrong. If you look back at our snaps you'll often see a couple of our receivers completely unaware that the ball has snapped, they're a second late on their route and when Mahomes goes through his progressions half of his receivers aren't where they should be. It also looks like they don't have the mental ability to attack the space and deviate from a planned route when there's an opposing CB occupying the space they've been dialed in to head to.

As someone wise once said: When the opportunity presents itself, why not go for it? Why not attack the space when it opens up?

We've also got this strange WR committee going on that has dogshit players like Skyy Moore having the same amount of snaps as our genuine threats like Rashee Rice. If you look at the other top offenses in the league they'll have at least 1 WR with 90% of snaps.

There's still plenty of positives to take from how we've played this year. Our defense looks like a top 3 defense with our linebackers and CBs being particularly impressive. Spags has gone even more blitz heavy this year and it's working wonders. The depth at LB is so good that we didn't miss Nick Bolton (who I think is our best player on defense) against the Eagles.

Still got my fingers crossed that something happens to fix our offense but in the playoffs any team can put up 20+ on you and not I'm confident we will be able to outscore that.

Woe is me, a long suffering Chiefs fan.
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They will win every playoff game by multiple scores, including the Super Bowl. Wait and see.
 
Andrade said:
Look, this is all academic. We all know that KC will probably go 6-1 the rest of the way, get the 1 seed and win the SB. Then everyone will forget about all this wrangling over the WRs and the WR coach.

Now Burrow is gone, there is no one in the AFC that KC need fear. Maybe only Buffalo if they make it but there's every chance they will miss the playoffs altogether. I think Lamar is exceptional but he can't yet be trusted in the postseason. Who else is there? Miami?! Come on....
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I think this Chiefs offence would struggle against the Ravens. Fancy them to be AFC champs this year. Or Miami.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Love him so much. He has got every other fanbase so rattled with his antics
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Thinking someone is a bellend doesn't mean folk are "rattled". He just comes across an absolute arsehole. A very unlikeable guy who, if he was in your extended friendship group, would be the absolute last person you'd want to win the fantasy league. The running chat amongst everyone else would be "anyone but Nick".
 
Carl said:
I think this Chiefs offence would struggle against the Ravens. Fancy them to be AFC champs this year. Or Miami.
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Nah. KC will be the one seed and there's no way either Baltimore or Miami (especially Miami) are going into Arrowhead and beating KC in the playoffs.

Of course injuries can change things but I'm talking about the teams as currently constructed.
 
Carl said:
Thinking someone is a bellend doesn't mean folk are "rattled". He just comes across an absolute arsehole. A very unlikeable guy who, if he was in your extended friendship group, would be the absolute last person you'd want to win the fantasy league. The running chat amongst everyone else would be "anyone but Nick".
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The fact that you have so much to say about a guy you know very little about is probably a sign that he has rattled you. You know literally nothing about him as a person so this js all just something you have decided based on a few videos
 
Andrade said:
Regular season and playoffs are different though. They will crush teams in the postseason. The offense is exactly the same personnel as last seasonexcept for Juju (who is not exactly Calvin Johnson). I suspect Rice, Toney and McKinnon will be much more involved come the playoffs (if everyone is healthy).

I mean, for all the negative things you've listed, they're still basically the number one seed in the AFC (they've played one less game than the Ravens and hold the tiebreaker over them). That should tell you something
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Well yeah they can turn it on in the post season but I don’t see any reason to believe that theu will crush other good teams. You also have to remember that Kelce hasn’t looked his best this season which is a huge difference from previous seasons. Of course they have the best QB and best coach in the league so they should be fine but I don’t think that it’s a certainty that they will win.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
The fact that you have so much to say about a guy you know very little about is probably a sign that he has rattled you. You know literally nothing about him as a person so this js all just something you have decided based on a few videos
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He's been the Eagles head coach for nearly 3 years. That's 3 years worth of games, interviews etc. That's hardly "a few videos".
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Well yeah they can turn it on in the post season but I don’t see any reason to believe that theu will crush other good teams. You also have to remember that Kelce hasn’t looked his best this season which is a huge difference from previous seasons. Of course they have the best QB and best coach in the league so they should be fine but I don’t think that it’s a certainty that they will win.
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If they're relatively healthy, they will win the SB again. HOF Coach, HOF QB, top 3 defense. No other team has even 2 of those 3 things.
 
Andrade said:
If they're relatively healthy, they will win the SB again. HOF Coach, HOF QB, top 3 defense. No other team has even 2 of those 3 things.
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"My husband cannot f--king throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time." - Gisele Bundchen 2012.
 
P-Ro said:
"My husband cannot f--king throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time." - Gisele Bundchen 2012.
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This narrtive is all the rage now and I understand it, but let's look at the facts:

KC have exactly the same receivers as last season, minus Juju. So there are 2 conclusions:

1. JSS is so great that his absence can turn a group from a number one offense into a pile of crap and a HOF QB and coach into bums. This is despite the fact that Juju has done next to nothing in NE, he's still that good.

2. The Chiefs still have a good offense that has not been executing that well this season but probably will in the future.

I know which of the 2 sounds logical to me....

Edit: Also worth pointing out that KC have currently the 6th best passing offense in the league. An incredible feat with no wide receivers.
 
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Andrade said:
I used to be on the side of 'it's Belichick's defenses, not Brady' for much of the last 20 years, but since they split, I've changed my view. Belichick has just never done anything as a HC without Brady, though we all accept he can coach defense. Also, his 'coaching tree' has produced such rancid, rotten fruit, that one can't help but think that the fabled 'Patiot Way' was really the 'Brady way'.
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It was obviously finding a generational QB in the draft more than anything else, like the 49ers drafting Montana in 1979 rd 3 or the Cowboys drafting Staubach in 1964 rd 10 knowing he had mandatory Naval service. There's likely no Tom Landry or Bill Walsh legend status without those guys, same applies to pretty much any coach. Joe Gibbs managed to win championships with three different starting QBs, perhaps he's the true GOAT of coaching. Andy Reid probably counts his blessings every night for the team drafting Mahomes, and he's a damn good coach. Then you have guys like Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells that truly built teams and could coach a pickle to perform.

I believe everyone can put to rest the Belichick is the GOAT and responsible for most of NE's success. It was clearly Brady and the 2020 Tampa Bay championship should have put it all to rest but we have further proof in the disaster that is NE post-Brady. That's not to take away from Belichick's coaching and player personnel moves, espcially his defensive genius, though the personnel part should be largely/partially credited to persons like Scott Pioli, Thomas Dimitroff, Nick Caserio, Bob Quinn, Matt Groh, et al not just Belichick. And special mention for spygate those early years Patriots and probably for the SB win against St Louis that Brady started.

Belichick is 63-77 without Brady on the roster, including 2-8 this year, with what will be 7 losing seasons in those 9 coaching years; 1-2 in the playoffs, 0-1 in NE. That's not accounting for the 5-11 record in 2000 with Bledsoe making 16 starts, nor the 0-2 mark in 2001 when Brady came off the bench for an injured Bledsoe on the final drive of the second game (Brady then going 11-3 as the starter), nor the 11-5 mark NE posted in 2008 after Brady was lost in the first game (Cassell subbing in a 0-0 game late in the first quarter), nor the 3-1 start in 2016 when Brady was ridiculously suspended. Those games would make Belichick 81-96 with someone other than Brady starting (or 82 wins for the Cassell 0-0 sub-in game if you want). That's Jerry Glanville, Joe Philbin, and Dick Nolan winning percentage neighborhood; Glanville went 3-4 in the playoffs and Nolan was 2-3. But he's 219-64 and 30-11 playoffs with Brady starting the game, gee wonder why that is.

Including the other teams mentioned above, these are the for point totals for Belichick's non-Brady starting teams, which included defensive and special teams scores further reducing offensive output. I've also added the QB starts for that season. Scoring was different in the 90s but those Cleveland teams were hovering just below/just above average ouput except for 1994. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm
1991 Cleveland - 293 - Kosar 16
1992 Cleveland - 272 - Tomczak 8, Kosar 7, Philcox 1
1993 Cleveland - 304 - Kosar 6, Testeverde 6, Philcox 4
1994 Cleveland - 340 - Testeverde 13, Rypien 3
1995 Cleveland - 289 - Testaverde 12, Zeier 4
2000 New England - 338 - Bledsoe 16
2008 New England - 410 - Cassell 15, Brady 1
2016 New England - 81 - Brissett 2, Garoppolo 2 - first four games only
2020 New England - 326 - Newton 15, Hoyer 1
2021 New England - 462 - Jones 17
2022 New England - 364 - Jones 14, Zappe 2, Hoyer 1
2023 New England - 141 - Jones 10 - on pace for 240
 
Stobzilla said:
He is so quintessentially Philly, it's fecking great.
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He is perfect for the team and city, and many of the fans (or at least, how they choose to conduct themselves when trying to live up to that ‘Philly fan’ image) I will say that. It’s always enjoyable when a team encapsulates their fan base so well. I always thought Wenger’s arsenal in later years and the fans symbolised each other perfectly
 

:lol:

Was wondering how he'd managed to go a few weeks without any stupid penalties for taunting/fighting... :lol:
 
MrMarcello said:
I believe everyone can put to rest the Belichick is the GOAT and responsible for most of NE's success. It was clearly Brady and the 2020 Tampa Bay championship should have put it all to rest
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This is peak revisionism. That Tampa Bay roster was stacked on both sides of the ball.

The fact that you attribute all of the NE success to Brady now too, purely because Belichick hasn't had a functioning quarterback since, is also embarrassing. Do you watch the NFL? Do you understand that there are separate players on offense and defense?

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Seasons with a top 10 defense:
Peyton Manning career: 4
Aaron Rodgers career: 2
Drew Brees career: 2
Patrick Mahomes career: 0
Tom Brady after turning 40: 5

Super Bowl record when leading offense to 13 or fewer points:
Tom Brady: 2-0
Every other QB in NFL history combined: 0-25

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These are just two cherry-picked stats from hundreds of others. Hopefully you will read them, understand them, and then perhaps ask yourself what they might indicate about the supporting cast Brady had in his career.
 
altodevil said:
This is peak revisionism. That Tampa Bay roster was stacked on both sides of the ball.

The fact that you attribute all of the NE success to Brady now too, purely because Belichick hasn't had a functioning quarterback since, is also embarrassing. Do you watch the NFL? Do you understand that there are separate players on offense and defense?

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Seasons with a top 10 defense:
Peyton Manning career: 4
Aaron Rodgers career: 2
Drew Brees career: 2
Patrick Mahomes career: 0
Tom Brady after turning 40: 5

Super Bowl record when leading offense to 13 or fewer points:
Tom Brady: 2-0
Every other QB in NFL history combined: 0-25

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These are just two cherry-picked stats from hundreds of others. Hopefully you will read them, understand them, and then perhaps ask yourself what they might indicate about the supporting cast Brady had in his career.
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A) it's not just about Belichick's record post Brady, which is poor. It's about Belichick as a HC before Brady, in Clevaland and NE, when he was still shite. He's had multiple pro Bowlers as his QB before and after Brady and never been good. When BB first started as a HC, it was in an era where success without a great QB was more common anyway, and he was still crap.

B) Tampa had mostly the same guys before Brady and they were mediocre.

C) Brady is (was) a special player. Anyone denying it at this point is living in cloud cuckoo land.
 
Andrade said:
A) it's not just about Belichick's record post Brady, which is poor. It's about Belichick as a HC before Brady, in Clevaland and NE, when he was still shite. He's had multiple pro Bowlers as his QB before and after Brady and never been good. When BB first started as a HC, it was in an era where success without a great QB was more common anyway, and he was still crap.

B) Tampa had mostly the same guys before Brady and they were mediocre.

C) Brady is (was) a special player. Anyone denying it at this point is living in cloud cuckoo land.
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A) Went 11-5 with the Browns and won a playoff game with them, took them 25 years to do this again. Went 11-5 with Matt Cassel at QB, a nothing player. You are also ignoring years when Brady was a below-average QB and yet the Patriots still won 11+ games and either won the Superbowl or went deep into the playoffs, of which there are several instances.

B) Jameis Winston threw for 5000 yards and 33 TDs in the Tampa offense the year before Brady arrived (and they added more pieces). Winston is an average backup QB.

C) Brady was an excellent player. No-one is denying that.
 
To suggest that Brady is the sole reason for the success he enjoyed and that he didn’t benefit from top tier talent all around him on both sides of the ball is just stupid.

As is downplaying BBs role in the Pats domination.
 
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