It wasn't Watt that was mentioned but Justin Jefferson. On a side note he is the first rookie WR named as an all pro since Moss.
NFL 2020
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It wasn't Watt that was mentioned but Justin Jefferson. On a side note he is the first rookie WR named as an all pro since Moss.
Well...
JJ was clearly mentioned and stated as being as valuable as Watson.
JJ was for Justin Jefferson.
JJ as in Justin Jefferson, probably.
Ah ffs
Almost like context matters or some shit.
Still don’t think he’s worth as much but it’s not as cut and dry as Watt I’ll give you that
My bad
Still, I don’t see them being close in value. Watson is not just a good QB, he is elite - and having the opportunity to pick up an elite QB is rare. Even rarer when they’re young.
Still, I don’t see them being close in value. Watson is not just a good QB, he is elite - and having the opportunity to pick up an elite QB is rare. Even rarer when they’re young.
Ah ffs
Almost like context matters or some shit.
Still don’t think he’s worth as much but it’s not as cut and dry as Watt I’ll give you that
How much would you give for an all pro WR with 3 years left on a 13m(total) contract?
None of those players are even close to worth Watson.
Sorry for starting that. Watt has always just been ‘Watt’ for me, even after T.J. came along. I’m probably just jealous of half the women I know swooning with ‘Oh, JJ.’
Thats interesting. I feel though there really hasn’t been the same quality at WR generally this year
Are Jackson and Allen not still on rookie deals?
I'd take Watt over Brady
He is 4th in receiving yards at 1400 yards, last year the 2nd had less than 1400 and in 2018 the 4th,Tyreek Hill, had 79 more yards.
Not for long, so it’s mostly a moot point in this context vis-a-vis Watson’s worth.
Nowhere near what I’d give for Watson.
It’s nowhere near the same degree but it’s similar to the RB argument we’ve seen on here over and over. WRs are more valuable than RBs but not to proven top tier QB level.
What would you have given for OBJ after his first 2 seasons vs now?
I’d take Von Miller over Goff too.
But it's not a simple comparison of players and their positions, contracts and cap management is also a key point.
So simply answer my question how much would you give for Jefferson today? 2 first rounders, more? How much would you pay for a disgruntled Watson who is on a big contract that won't allow you to exploit free agency?
Edit: Also WR are like LT and shutdown corners, you pay them. They are not like RB who should never be paid by the team that drafted them, they already used their best years which isn't the case for the aforementioned positions who are highly valuable when experienced.
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I wouldn't give two firsts for Jefferson. If I was a playoff team with a major hole at receiver I'd do a first and a third but I wouldn't if I was picking top 10.
If I was a team that had talent but needed a qb, like say Pittsburgh or Indianapolis...
I would trade 2 firsts, a couple mid round picks, a star defender and a good receiver for Watson.
Two first rounders? Come on now. There have only been two WRs involved in a first round pick since 2008, Percy Harvin and Brandin Cooks.
I don’t think anyone would give one first rounder for him actually, maybe a contender that’s desperate for a top WR but even then. Draft Chase or Smith if you really need a WR and you might have a player as good as him. He’s had a great rookie season but is not the proven product already. For comparison, Jalen Ramsey fetched 2 first rounders at a more important position.
I’ve no idea what I’d pay for Jefferson, but I do known it wouldn’t be in the same ballpark as what I’d pay for Deshaun Watson.
And I think that would still be a steal
So you’d say 2 first rounders, some middle rounders, Watt and JuJu for Watson? That’s a bit overkill for me, the Steelers wouldn’t give that all up imo.
I’d take that deal for him!
There's just no way to get fair value for Watson. 3 firsts, 3 seconds, Claypool, TJ Watt, Devin Bush is about as close as I can think of
I dont think its fair value for Watson. Hes the second most valuable player in the league with a long term deal. With the right moves the Texans can contend before his contract is up.
And you wouldn't have him for a 1st and 3rd which is shows how you undervalue the player and his contract. And I agree with Pittsburgh and Indianapolis but the question wasn't about those teams and that's why I told that it depends on context. But even then how much do you give for Watson which was the question I initially asked, I started with 2 first rounders, how much do you think would be needed on top of it bearing in mind that he is supposed to be upset?
I saw an article talking about the Broncos trading for Watson which suggested, if I remember correctly:
2021 - 1st & 2nd round picks
2022 - 1st & 2nd round picks
Drew Lock
Tim Patrick
For Watson, which is a lot but I think I’d be OK if I saw the story tomorrow saying it’s happened.
Not that it will, but I’d throw a fit if we gave that for a WR.
2021 - 1st & 2nd round picks
2022 - 1st & 2nd round picks
Drew Lock
Tim Patrick
For Watson, which is a lot but I think I’d be OK if I saw the story tomorrow saying it’s happened.
Not that it will, but I’d throw a fit if we gave that for a WR.
We 99% won’t do that though. I think we have more chances to contend if we get a great deal for him and use those picks to properly rebuild (which would likely fail too though, come to think of it).
He should be considered untradeable actually. So sad that it’s even gotten to this point.
Like I said above, 2 good rookies/sophomores, 3 firsts, 3 seconds, an all pro defender and I would do it.
I think you are overrating Jefferson. Prime Randy Moss was traded for a 1st, a 7th, and a decent starter. Most people who watched LSU last year rated Chase over Jefferson. Hes not worth more than a 1st and a 3rd, if that
In order to draft RGIII, Washington trades 3 firsts and 1 second for a player they hoped would be an all pro. Watson IS an all pro. He's 25 and just finished 3rd in ANY/A despite a shambolic organization around him.
3 1sts, 3 2nds, Nick Bosa
3 1sts, 3 2nds, TJ Watt
3 1sts, 3 2nds, DeForest Buckner
Thats what it should take for Houston to even pick up the phone
3 1sts, 3 2nds, Nick Bosa
3 1sts, 3 2nds, TJ Watt
3 1sts, 3 2nds, DeForest Buckner
Thats what it should take for Houston to even pick up the phone
If we use Red McComb finest piece of work as a reference than we may as well stop that conversation, that was as bad Bill O'Brien attempt at trading Hopkins. And I think that you are at the same overrating the value of Watson and underrating the value of other players. I can totally accept that Watson is a little bit more valuable than a current and potential all pro WR that has a rookie contract but your valuation of Watson is over the top, I don't even think that he is the second most valuable player in the league or at least it's not that clear.
A little bit more valuable? Come on thats crazy talk. Past trades at both positions show that my valuations are in line with how the league views them, not with how you view them.
What do you think Michael Thomas' trade value is right now.
Would Miami be crazy enough to trade Tua and their 2 1st round picks for him, or do they believe in Tua.
Related to one of my points earlier, Lock is more attractive to Houston than Cousins. He’s a cheap QB with possible upside as opposed to a middle of the pack one with a significant cost.
In this scenario Denver‘s offer is more attractive than Minnesota’s unless the Vikes include a valuable asset other than Cousins, though that might involve at least Von Miller walking (haven’t seen any numbers here).
Past trades in the cap era show that it is how the league sees QBs on rookie contracts not QBs on large contracts. The closest example that I have in mind would be Palmer who was traded for a 1st and 2nd.
Carson Palmer had a major injury, consecutive sub-6 ANY/A seasons and threatened to retire. And he STILL got a first and a second. Thats a point in my favor, as is the RGIII trade which you didn't address.
3 firsts, 3 seconds, an elite defender or don't bother
I adressed the RG3 trade when MrMarcello mentioned it. I can see a team trade several first round picks for a rookie contract but I don't see it for a large contract because those picks are particularly valuable when you have big contracts to manage. You are adding costs while reducing your abiltiy to manage it, you can't even go into free agency because your QB is on a big contract and will definitely have to let go your future UFAs.
And there is no point in your favor since my position was 2 first and mid round picks.
Edit: I only see the Jets and a Bill O'Brien led team do the trades that you proposed.
Going into free agency is inefficient. That's not a goal teams should have.
Also the rookie contract thing is important when you are talking about someone on the level of like Jared Goff. When you're talking about an mvp candidate, it's less relevant. Thats why you don't see anyone talking about Mahomes' deal as a reason to prefer Trevor Lawrence.
The Texans-Watson feud is fascinating. I would normally say Watson will get a new improved contract and this will all go away, but I suppose that is unlikely in this case.
Hell of a QB. But then again, i'm not sure a QB or any player should have a significant influence over a GM hire. Coaching? Sure, but the GM needs to be able to look at the whole roster objectively if they hope to succeed
Ironically, everything that I have ever heard about Caserio has been positive.
Hell of a QB. But then again, i'm not sure a QB or any player should have a significant influence over a GM hire. Coaching? Sure, but the GM needs to be able to look at the whole roster objectively if they hope to succeed
Ironically, everything that I have ever heard about Caserio has been positive.
He said a “good receiver”- Status