nfl 12/13

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Andrew~ said:
I'm a bit confused about RG3. He's really entertaining to watch, but for some reason he doesn't give me the same impression of consistency that Luck does. But then, you see his stats and some of his passes, they are just ridiculous.

Can someone explain if he really is that good?
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Griffing can run as can that rookie RB they have, and that is a massive difference for them, where as the Colts do not have a consistent running game and Luck airs out much more downfield. Rick Reilly and Steve Young both stated the Redskins throw the most backfield passes and the most 5- and 7-yard curl/slant routes in the league, which allows Griffin to make easier and more catchable throws. He's also getting tremendous run protection from that line though the pass blocking isn't as consistent.

Griffin is the flashy player but for me Luck is the better QB.
 
MrMarcello said:
When arguably Adrian Peterson is the real MVP this season but doesn't have the massive profile of Peyton. Could even argue for Jones or Ryan in Atlanta.
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It's hard to give someone MVP on a 6-6 team. Without Peyton, Denver is a 3-9 team not a 9-3 team.
 
Forevergiggs said:
It's hard to give someone MVP on a 6-6 team. Without Peyton, Denver is a 3-9 team not a 9-3 team.
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Barry Sanders got it on an 8-8 Detroit team granted he shared the award with the media dariling of that time, Brett Favre.

Take away Peterson and Minnesota would be horrendous offensively and nowhere near 6-6. Oh, and Tebow managed to get Denver to 8-8 and a division title so it's a bit speculative to claim Denver would be that worse off without Manning.
 
Eboue said:
It really isn't. Denver winning with Tebow was a fluke and Elway knew it.
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No doubt but the record books will always reflect Denver won the West, and a playoff game inspite of a terrible QB.

Another point is that we simply do not know what other QB the Broncos front office might have targeted if they could not sign Manning. They may have signed Flynn or drafted Wilson. They may not have traded out of the first round and instead attempted to move up for Griffin, Luck or Tannehill, or sat put and selected Weeden. They did actually draft Osweiler in the secound round so it's quite likely a QB would have been targeted much higher in the draft with no Manning on board.
 
Manning hasn't done anything Brady hasn't done, other than come back from a bad injury. But if you're if giving awards based on injury comebacks, then Peterson's injury was a lot worse and should edge the award. Manning is a media darling and that always helps.
 
MrMarcello said:
Barry Sanders got it on an 8-8 Detroit team granted he shared the award with the media dariling of that time, Brett Favre.

Take away Peterson and Minnesota would be horrendous offensively and nowhere near 6-6. Oh, and Tebow managed to get Denver to 8-8 and a division title so it's a bit speculative to claim Denver would be that worse off without Manning.
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It was a 9-7 team and Detroit made the play-offs.

There is a considerable difference between a 8-8 team and a 9-3 team, that has clinched the division, with 4 games remaining. I think Manning and Brady would be the front runners for the award, and rightly so. Without those two their teams won't be even close to making play-offs forget winning their divisions at this stage. AP should and will be in the mix but I don't see anyone winning besides those two.
 
Anderson's Cat said:
Manning hasn't done anything Brady hasn't done, other than come back from a bad injury. But if you're if giving awards based on injury comebacks, then Peterson's injury was a lot worse and should edge the award. Manning is a media darling and that always helps.
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He is a media darling for a reason. It's not unreasonable media lovin'
 
Because the QBs are the media darlings more than just their body of work. They're the known commodites similar to Messi and Ronaldo while Iniesta (and Peterson) is the forgotten man.

So if Minnesota makes the playoffs should that catapult Peterson in your estimation? Or will you still belittle his deserving of the MVP award?
 
MrMarcello said:
Because the QBs are the media darlings more than just their body of work. They're the known commodites similar to Messi and Ronaldo while Iniesta (and Peterson) is the forgotten man.

So if Minnesota makes the playoffs should that catapult Peterson in your estimation? Or will you still belittle his deserving of the MVP award?
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QB position is the most important in a team. That is why 7 of the last 10 super-bowls have been won by teams with a star QB and two by Big Ben, who is a very good QB.

I never "belittled" his case, don't use words to suit your argument. If he helps them make the play-offs than sure it is going to strengthen his case.

What does the "Most Valuable Player" in the league means to you anyways?
 
Of course QB is the most important position and I never have stated otherwise, and this is why QBs are often the top candidates whether fair or not. I simply believe Peterson is as worthy as Manning or any other potential MVP candidate. It's not like the Vikings would be anywhere near playoff contention without him playing at this level.

Most Valuable Player is what it means - but it's not always the most valuable player to his team that wins the award or the likes of Rice, Emmitt, Bary, Walter, and others would have won it multiple times. Just like Favre didn't deserve it over Barry in 1997 but the voters wanted him to get a third straight but fortunately half the voters chose Barry and thus they shared the award.

I'm not going to say that Manning or even Brady would not deserve the award but I do feel both would have far more votes swung by a media lovein. They've earned the media lovein but as history shows other deserving positional players are often overlooked.

Case in point: Kurt Warner 1999. He was the feel good, inspirational story of the season and had an amazing season. However, Marshall Faulk was the biggest reason for that offense (he won the MVP in 2000) and should have won the MVP in 1999. Without that trade I have my doubts on just how spectacular Warner's season would have been. Faulk provided that extra dimension or the Rams would have just been a passing show not a complete offense.
 
Eboue said:
Give me a situation where it's not true.
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Look at basketball - Michael Jordan didn't win the MVP every year - even though he was acknowledged as the game's best player.

Jerry Rice was and is acknowledged as the best receiver ever - yet he didn't win the MVP every year.
 
swooshboy said:
Look at basketball - Michael Jordan didn't win the MVP every year - even though he was acknowledged as the game's best player.

Jerry Rice was and is acknowledged as the best receiver ever - yet he didn't win the MVP every year.
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If they were the best player that year then they should have won.
 
Anderson's Cat said:
Manning hasn't done anything Brady hasn't done, other than come back from a bad injury. But if you're if giving awards based on injury comebacks, then Peterson's injury was a lot worse and should edge the award. Manning is a media darling and that always helps.
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De Selby said:
Just give it to JJ Watt.

The whole Brady v Manning thing is fecking tedious.
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I don’t really think there has been much talk about Brady this year; he’s been kind of under the radar up until the last couple of weeks. I suppose it’s just kind of the norm for him to play at the level he has at times this season.

I don’t particularly care about MVP but it’s just been great to watch Manning come back and play at this level (Peterson too). He and Brady are always going to be linked and talked about together - even in 25 years time and as his neck injury showed, it’s not going to last forever. So I’m pretty much looking to enjoy watching the end of their careers and see how long they can keep up this level of play. Even though I questioned Manning’s quest for stats and personal gain early in his career I’m pretty sure all either cares about at this point, is getting back to the big game again.
 
I always rated Manning higher but the last year or so I've looked back - Brady is better in nearly all facets. He's won more, he's done so with lesser cast, he's made marginal players stars, he has a winning playoff record. Manning has been surrounded with premier offensive talents for most of his career - Harrison, Clark, James, Stokely, and some superb O-lineman (Brady has had some solid lineman as well). Best offensive talent Brady ever had was Moss and he set a passing TD record that season it all clicked. Lately you can add Hernandez and Bronk to that list though I fully believe those two would be nowhere near as good in another system (although I'm sure they'd flourish under the likes of Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Romo, et al). I can't begin to imagine what Brady could have achieved with Harrison, Clark, Stokely and James in the same lineup.

On the flip side, Brady's defenses were much better compared to Manning's until lately. And coaching, well Dungy was solid but Belicunt is an all-timer (cheating or no cheating).
 
I only recently started watching the NFL so I can't judge who's better, but I've developed a strong and very irrational disliking for the Manning brothers.
 
If I was to pick the top 5 QB's today, it would be in this order:

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
 
RDCR07 said:
If I was to pick the top 5 QB's today, it would be in this order:

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
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I'd potentially put Ryan, Schaub and if he continues his form, Luck above Eli.

Crazily overrated player - proof that Superbowl rings don't prove how good a player is.
 
Andrew~ said:
I'm a bit confused about RG3. He's really entertaining to watch, but for some reason he doesn't give me the same impression of consistency that Luck does. But then, you see his stats and some of his passes, they are just ridiculous.

Can someone explain if he really is that good?
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MrMarcello said:
Griffing can run as can that rookie RB they have, and that is a massive difference for them, where as the Colts do not have a consistent running game and Luck airs out much more downfield. Rick Reilly and Steve Young both stated the Redskins throw the most backfield passes and the most 5- and 7-yard curl/slant routes in the league, which allows Griffin to make easier and more catchable throws. He's also getting tremendous run protection from that line though the pass blocking isn't as consistent.

Griffin is the flashy player but for me Luck is the better QB.
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I'm biased(and unashamedly so). Not saying Griffin is the better QB, but his fundamentals are pretty damn solid. He simply is not the stereotypical athletic read: BLACK QB.

This helps to break down things a bit more...gives a bit of perspective on what both players have achieved(incredible class of rookie quarterbacks beyond just RG3 & Luck)

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/43578/who-is-the-offensive-rookie-of-the-year
 
muller said:
I'd potentially put Ryan, Schaub and if he continues his form, Luck above Eli.

Crazily overrated player - proof that Superbowl rings don't prove how good a player is.
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:lol: You are freaking joking right? The only QB's I would take ahead of Eli are the ones I mentioned. He is clutch down the stretch and is not overrated. He deserves the praise he gets.
 
muller said:
I'd potentially put Ryan, Schaub and if he continues his form, Luck above Eli.

Crazily overrated player - proof that Superbowl rings don't prove how good a player is.
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:lol::lol:

I just hope everybody writes off Giants when they lose to the Saints this week. Makes it easy for them to win the Bowl.
 
Eli is borderline elite for me. Last season he played superb, made big plays when it counted in the 4th quarter and, unfortunately, the superbowl and has generally improved as a QB since 2008.

This season, he has suffered with consistency issues, but I'll hold off judgement on how he has played this year and whether he is truly elite until the Giants are eliminated - he and they usually start to come good at this time of the season.

The only elite QB's who do it week in week out and carry their teams are Brady, Peyton, Brees & Rodgers.
 
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