Tend to agree with that. Appointing Giggs would be heart ruling head and a global brand like Manchester United have to make proper, considered decisions and above all appoint the absolute best that is attainable. Could we honestly say that man is currently Giggs after a couple of seasons as an assistant ?
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Tend to agree with that. Appointing Giggs would be heart ruling head and a global brand like Manchester United have to make proper, considered decisions and above all appoint the absolute best that is attainable. Could we honestly say that man is currently Giggs after a couple of seasons as an assistant ?
Well you were raving about him being better than van Gaal less than a week ago.
Guardiola was one of a kind, for every player that turn manager after 3-4 years from the end of his career for every Pep there'll be more than a hundred managers who will not even be good enough to manage an upper half of the table team in a top league. There is very little chance that Giggs wouldn't be one of them because this is how it is.
Pep would probably stay here for around 4-5 years. This is a long time and he'd be able to put his stamp on the club in that window. Barcelona are still profiting from his time there and so is Spanish NT to an extent.
We are a huge club, we cannot mess around with managers forever. It'd be like one step back, then one step forward and the a huge leap back if you looked at the time post-Ferguson.
What worries me more is that we are completely unprepared for the eventuality of him failing. Usually clubs who consider the homegrown option do so, knowing that they are taking great risks. They see the appointment as similar to a new inexperienced employee on probation and the homegrown manager is kicked out at the first hint of him being out of depth which is a period of around 6 months (ex Seedorf) to less than a year (ex Ferrara). Can you imagine what would happen if the darling of Manchester alongside the historical and legendary class of 92 are proven out of depth and need to be fired? The Media, the PR and the fans would go into meltdown. We already have people within redcafe that say if the darling of Manchester becomes manager than maybe we should lower our expectation to 7th just to make it easy for him to succeed. A club of the status of United would have the same aims of Everton and we would do that just to keep 1 man happy
Sometimes I wonder if all this strategy is an attempt by the Glazers to get rid of the two old football directors on 100k a week in an elegant way. They give them rope to appoint the person they want only for them to be made accountable if he fails. If United end up 7th again than surely no one can blame the Glazers for taking action again the same people who masterminded this Chosen one version 1 and version 2 move
for arguments sake lets say that:
Van Gaal stays on, we lose Pep to City and Carlo has also joined someone else by this point. And Klopp is also a hit at Anfield.
What would we do when Van Gaal leaves now/if that Klopp is no longer an option and neither is pep or Carlo?
Jose could end up losing his job at Chelsea..... *gulp* do we try for him? *ouch*
Van Gaal stays on, we lose Pep to City and Carlo has also joined someone else by this point. And Klopp is also a hit at Anfield.
What would we do when Van Gaal leaves now/if that Klopp is no longer an option and neither is pep or Carlo?
Jose could end up losing his job at Chelsea..... *gulp* do we try for him? *ouch*
Pep's just saying that to stop Muller from coming here.
If Pep's available next summer, I'd do everything to get him.
I'd love him here. Pep managing City would be awful.
I'd love him here. Pep managing City would be awful.
thisPep Guardiola is the best manager in the world, Mourinho is probably the best in the league (bad start, whatever), Ancelotti is super experienced, and De Boer is widely regarded as one of the best young managers around. Giggs fits none of those titles, not even close to any of them. We can't afford to piss around so we really need to go all out to get one of those I mentioned, and I'd choose Guardiola. Oh, and, on Mourinho, before you shout at me, one bad season doesn't and shouldn't define a manager. I also don't care if he's a dick, Moyes was a nice guy and look where that took us.
Exactly. I really am going to go with my common sense now and look at it from Woodward and Glazers point of view - Giggs makes no business sense. It would be a breach of the United directors' duty of care to make such an insane decision. How do you justify this appointment to shareholders, sponsors and such people? There's no logic to a Giggs appointment. Emotions have no place in business, nor in the increasingly competitive Premier league, there's simply too much to lose.
Besides, from what I read after Moyes was binned, it seems to me that Ed Woodward is not keen on SAF having anymore influence at United. He knows you can't have two 'kings' in one organisation.
this is spot on, when I think about it...
I voted for Pep, but wouldn't Giggs be a bit, or a lot, like when Pep took over Barca?
Perhaps a little bit, you could argue that Guardiola managing Barcelona B fully is gaining more experience in management than being an assistant manager.
Not to mention that Guardiola's success was remarkable at Barcelona; it's not something that it easy to replicate, and appointing Giggs with the mindset that "It worked at Barca, so it'll work for us", is an incredibly risky one to go for.
Luis Enrique replicated it.
Well, yeah...at Barcelona. They've been doing the promoting from within thing regularly for a while now, and it's working well for them because they have a set philosophy, a brilliant group of players, and usually their managerial changes have been incredibly smooth transitions.
We don't really have that set playing style in place, and have no recent history of promoting from within.
Guardiola and Enrique can't be used as examples, as they inherited the likes of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez, and Neymar. Whoever gets the next United job will wind up with a top 4 side, as opposed to the greatest club team ever.
Bingo. Also, having a director of football might in some small way also help the managers we employ in particular the inexperienced ones.
Very logical post. Sums it up nicely.
They didn't really have all that pre Guardiola themselves though.
There was a period of time between Pep leaving and Enrique picking it up, it's not as if he came after Pep and continued what's there.
It's an entirely new way of playing that theyve implemented as well
Simeone was my 'romantic' choice if you want to call it that.
I would be very happy with Jose.
Pep does not seem to be a manager made for us....I think he wont come here either.
De Boer. yes. I would be very interested.
But my gut says it will be Giggs. I hope I am wrong.
I am absolutely certain that if we got Giggs and he had us finishing around 5th or 6th consistently we wouldn't fire him because of his affiliation with the club and everyone would be saying that he is young and needs time to learn the job. There were a lot of voices in this line of thinking back in Moyes days and we owed the man nothing (even though you'd think otherwise looking at what people said at the time), imagine if it were Ryan Giggs, OT legend instead.
Precisely, this is one of the main reasons why it's such a scary proposition. He would be given more time to fail before anyone at the club mustered up the balls to sack him.
We could have turned to Liverpool by then. Once a drought sets in, very difficult to come back.
Agreed, which is the main reason even considering Giggs is a massive risk to our long term success.
Yes and I can already imagine how frustrating this would be. 'So what if we finished 10th, the players are letting him down, he is a legend and deserves to learn and we should give him £400m to replace the whole team'.
Forget about who we want as the next manager, who do you Think will be next manager and why?
This was my point in the other thread. I don't expect that we'll win the league under Van Gaal, he's a good manager but doesn't seem suited to the PL in some ways. He doesn't seem to be flexible with his tactics, which don't really work as well as they might elsewhere. I suspect that if we find ourselves in the position of having fought for top 4 over the next two seasons and Van Gaal retires with Giggs taking over, we'll have already started to look a less exciting prospect for players who want to compete at the very top level. With Giggs in charge, supposing he does badly, he'll still get a long tenure and this could put us in a Liverpool like position for some time to come.
Of course it's all hypothetical (I have to put this before people start telling me I'm predicting that it will definitely happen) but it's not worth the risk IMO. If Van Gaal fails to improve over last season we should replace him with a proven manager at the end of this season and make sure we get someone who fits our philosophy.
Yep, there was a period in-between, during which Barca appointed another two managers internally, making it four in a row for them once Enrique came in.
Nah, I think you'd be surprised at how quickly things can change. If Giggs had a season similar to Moyes, you'd probably see a lot of fans turning against him, and more importantly, players within the dressing room would become disillusioned, with some potentially wanting to leave the club. As soon as the dressing room is lost, a manager is on very thin ice, no matter how leeway he'd generally be given.
We are already miles behind top European teams, Manchester United of all clubs should be up there with Barcelona, Bayern and Real Madrid. Madrid themselves had been where we are for a period between 2004 and 2009, Barcelona between 2000 and 2005, Bayern between 2004 (I think) and 2009, they did well to come back from it.
What sort of friends resent their mate over a career choice?
Ones whose prodigy breaks a gentleman's agreement?
Why would there be one? It makes no sense. Why would any manager agree to a deal years in advance without knowing what options there are in the future, how the squads/teams look like, what offers will be on the table? I'd understand it if there was some sort of emotional connection between the manager and the club, but there is none. Two guys he worked with before are in charge of a club that's totally alien to Guardiola. That's it.
If Pep decides to go to City next summer, it'll be because he sees it as the most interesting job for him now, not because he made a silly promise years ago. By the way, would you really want a manager who just goes to City because of a gentleman's agreement but would rather work somewhere else? That sounds like an awful deal to me.
Well put. This 'he will choose city because his mates are there' link seems tenuous at best. If they are really his good friends, then they would be disappointed but understanding that he had chosen United. If they break off the friendship, then they are not friends worth having.
If it's not Pep I think Tuchel is worth a shout-out. He's a manager I rate better than Klopp.
Agree about Tuchel.
Who said it was made years ago?
City sounded him out when he wanted out of Barcelona but he wanted time out and Mancini was a fan fave so they went seperate ways. After our disappointing season in 14/15 the question arose again especially as Pep was getting heat after a subpar end to that season with Bayern.
I don't claim to know whether the agreement is fact or press talk but it has been widely reported.
IF it is fact then Pep would be a shit to then join United.
No I didn'tYou read my post, did you?
.Anyway Tuchel's football is somewhat similar to Pep's. possession based but more direct & through ball, especially when his team doesn't win the ball, they press like maniacs something I want to see United play.
I don't see city getting rid of Pellegrini yet. He's doing a good job for the, and the Football they are playing is very easy on the eye.
Question is, if Pep was available this summer, do we take a chance and get rid of LVG and get Pep in?
Question is, if Pep was available this summer, do we take a chance and get rid of LVG and get Pep in?
I doubt Pep's decision to leave Bayern will be based on the media, because there's no way the Bayern's board criticizes him for his supposedly subpar Rückrunde. Which wasn't one, imo, if you take the numerous injuries into account.
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