with disaster I meant Moyes-esq disaster, not relegation type disaster.
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playing the devils advocate a bit - having the assistant manager take over and be a success worked with Vilanova, and to my knowledge he didn't have any management experience other than assistant to Pep.
So it can work - i just think Vilanova got "lucky" with the squad he inherited and not many couldn't be a success with that squad as the tactics were pretty much all to see.
Our squad just isn't up to that standard and i'd much rather Pep come in
So it can work - i just think Vilanova got "lucky" with the squad he inherited and not many couldn't be a success with that squad as the tactics were pretty much all to see.
Our squad just isn't up to that standard and i'd much rather Pep come in
Thread has descended into argument why Giggs should take over. There's a thread for that.
I do not think that van Gaal is less direct - he was not at Bayern. But keeping possession is first a defensive concept - if you loose the ball the opponent can act. Or let's say - you have to know when you can go risks and when you cannot. Pep builds on the same principle as van Gaal does - positional play, triangles and ball possession. If you look at Bayern the players keep the principles - they just act a lot more fluid and with more one-touch-football - but the spaces are always covered - and the pressing is done fast and in packs. The difference between United is (apart from maybe the quality of players and a better squad) that Bayern's players know exactly where to run, too, and where fellows and opponents are - or what to do next. And the Bayern of today are so flexible that they can play different systems with the same players in every match and switch in seconds. Attacking or build up over the wing or through the middle, with short or long passes - when Alonso gets pressed or taken out of the match from the opponent we have Boateng who can do the build up or others.
But even for Bayern there can be players that have bad days and make mistakes, an opponent who is very smart, strikers that do not kick the ball in, a goalkeeper who has the day of his life, days when the last pass does not arrive... - but then it is not the system that is to blame... Or days or times when the match seems to be boring as the gaps do not open, the players do not take enough risks or there is too less movement.
The problem is that you all mix the system with how it is executed. When you loose to Arsenal you blame the system not the players or the execution or the matchplan - same when your players do not get goals.
Neither LvG or SAF will have much (or any) say on who our next manager will be. Woody is the kingmaker.
Of course his approach was less direct than Guardiola's. Van Gaal's tactics were a lot more limiting in movement and risk taking. Besides Robben's cut in and shoot as much as he wants thing, everyone was more focused on keeping the ball than on creating something. The biggest problem was that van Gaal had absolutely no defensive concept that allowed risk taking, which meant we were endlessly passing the ball between defensive midfield and centerbacks. We were playing a high defensive line without pressing, so losing the ball meant our opponents could counterattack into open space with no chance for our defenders to interfere. It was a horror show often enough.
Pretty much every player is much more confident on the ball under Guardiola, even fullbacks are allowed to dribble and take risks, because the moment we lose the ball, the whole team instantly switches to pressing and winning the ball back. That's why we can keep up having crazy high possession stats while also playing a lot more direct and entertaining. Yeah, there's the odd game where it doesn't work and it's still risky against excellent counterattacking sides, but it's a much more balanced and entertaining approach to possession football than van Gaal's.
He's the same person who said recently that van Gaal isn't a better manager than Moyes. Let him delude.
Shit, that reminds me of, well, us. Modern football eh.
History repeating itself.
If he is interested in the job, I have no issue with making sure Guardiola is approached early and letting LvG go at the end of the season if Guardiola wants to work next season. I see zero reason to keep a man we all know is retiring after his third season anyway, over a young manager that will give us at least three years uninterrupted and fits within the frame work of the style of play the current manager coaches.
The well being of the club come first. I'm sure Heynckes wanted to stay on, but Bayern made sure they got Guardiola.
Personally I think LvG is reaching a point where he is taking us as far as he can anyway after a boring yet OK job of stabilising us.
If Pep became available, United would be bonkers to even consider anyone else as LVG's successor.
Hiring Guardiola to take over from van Gaal makes too much sense from a United perspecitve. Which is we'll end up giving the job to Giggs and see City install Pep.
If he leaves Bayern in the summer we should get him in immediately, he's the ace card to keep us in the top mix.
Pep taking over after van Gaal retires is the best move for the club. I'm not sold on Giggs becoming United manager with no experience in managing a side. If Pep takes over in 2017 then Giggs should part ways too and go get some experience if he's that serious in becoming a manager.
I can't see him doing that, but i think it would benefit him to leave United the same time van Gaal does. There's only so much he can be taught about the management caper; he will learn more than he can be taught going out and managing a club on his own.
Exactly my opinion on this matter. I don't think there's any better alternative than Pep out there at the moment, and I assume this isn't an unlikely scenario in 1,5 years.
We'd be insane not to get hold of Pep if we could.
Of course he can but to turn down his friends and colleagues to manage the local rivals would not be the best way to keep the relationship he has with those guys cordial.
If he doesn't want City but does want PL then London is a compromise that's probably acceptable to both parties.
I don't see why Tixi and Soriano should hold it against Pep if he turns down City for United.
Are they really close friends and not just people who worked together for a while and respect each other?
If he can't choose United because it would piss them off and he doesn't want to join City, he can always stay at Bayern. That would be nice.
If he can't choose United because it would piss them off and he doesn't want to join City, he can always stay at Bayern. That would be nice.
Why wouldn't he want to join City? Or Arsenal for that matter?
Am yet to see Pep work with average players. This guy thrives with top end players IMO
Unfortunately I can see him at City as the speculation continues. Although if Pelegrini wins the title which I believe he will it will be difficult for them to sack him.
Jose at Chelsea
Klopp at Liverpool
Pep at City ?
My 3 favorite managers. Not a good scenario if it comes true.
Jose at Chelsea
Klopp at Liverpool
Pep at City ?
My 3 favorite managers. Not a good scenario if it comes true.
That's like preferring a bicycle with a flat tyre to a motorbike.
There seems to be a Gentleman's Agreement in place for him to come to City.
If he changes his mind he can say something along the lines of "my wife prefers living in London " but to go over the road that would jeopardise their accord.
Imagine the uproar if we put out average perfromamces week after week, a club legend player should NEVER go into management without having gone away and gained previous managerial experience, especially one like United.
If all goes wrong it's going to cause a huge split amongst the fans. If there's even a sniff that guardiola is avaliable then we go for him it's simple as that.
If all goes wrong it's going to cause a huge split amongst the fans. If there's even a sniff that guardiola is avaliable then we go for him it's simple as that.
What makes you think Giggs can't do a treble with that Barca squad? Enrique did it in his 1st season. Or maybe you think Giggs can't win the Bundesliga with that Bayern squad.
Pep has been privileged with incredible players.
Isn't that part of the battle, though? Top quality managers attract top quality players. Having pep as our manager would make us much stronger players in the transfer market than giggs...
lads. I honestly think the board had appointed Giggs the next manager when they chose van Gaal.
EDIT: I think all the statements from Fergie, van Gaal and others are just to prep us.
EDIT: I think all the statements from Fergie, van Gaal and others are just to prep us.
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cruel...
Cruel, but quite making a lot of sense.
Hope not.
Pep has kind of gone his own way of the dutch school a while ago. He seems to prefer the 3-4-3 and 3-5-2 formation these days. He tried it with Barca in his last season.
And these formations don't seem to be inspired by the italian school, either, he plays with technical CBs. He's converted players like Alaba, Lahm and even Xabi Alonso to play there. Kind of what Bielsa does. He's not married to one style.
And these formations don't seem to be inspired by the italian school, either, he plays with technical CBs. He's converted players like Alaba, Lahm and even Xabi Alonso to play there. Kind of what Bielsa does. He's not married to one style.
Not sure any reason I have is enough to logically convince anyone that Giggs is indeed the better choice. The way I think of it something like this: before anyone gave Guardiola the chance to manage would Barca fans have preferred him or the hot thing at the time Benetiz (might be getting my dates messed up but Benetiz was pretty in those days?).
I just want us to make "our own pep" and feel like Giggs can become that and will actually stay here. Another reason I'd prefer Giggs is because I don't like possession based football with our players. I know none of these reasons are "good enough" but hey it's why I think the way I think.
Agreed. Much better pedigree as as manager and Guardiola isn't really any better than Moyes.
Don't understand this post. Where did Moyes come from?
Manchester United: trying to replicate Barcelona since 2009
. Now as for what's underlined and in italics and out of WUM mode, Benitez was nowhere near the short list for Barça in 2008. Mourinho, Pellegrini, Laudrup and Guardiola were looked at with Guardiola deemed the right fit at that time.How should I put this... I really don't want a Man United team of average players.
Hasn't he previously said something about managing United ? I get the impression there's a romanticism about him in that he will want to go deeper than just the lure of cash to spend. I just cannot see him going to City and am convinced he is holding out for us, that's why I can see us telling LVG 'no thanks' if he does indicate he wants to extend his stay here.
Pep will wait another season, coinciding with LVG's deal expiring, but couldn't see him waiting much beyond that. He gets on well with Fergie too. Giggs is for the future and I feel he needs more experience working alongside another top boss rather than inheriting the reigns from LVG after just three seasons.
Pep will wait another season, coinciding with LVG's deal expiring, but couldn't see him waiting much beyond that. He gets on well with Fergie too. Giggs is for the future and I feel he needs more experience working alongside another top boss rather than inheriting the reigns from LVG after just three seasons.
Giggs moving to Aston Villa will prove nothing. However its a stepping stone to something bigger and if he does well there than who knows maybe he would built his CV enough to be considered for the top job itself. That's what the likes of Klopp (Mainz-Dortmund-Liverpool), SAF (East Stirlingshire-St Mirren-Aberdeen-Manchester United) and Simeone (Estudiantes-Catania-Racing Club-Athletico Madrid) did and that's what the likes of Ole, Hughes, Robson, Mclaren and Keane have tried to do but failed. Why should we give Giggs the preferential treatment?
I think he will take a year off next season and then decide. Would absolutely love for him to come here.
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