Their worst run of form in 3 years
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Their worst run of form in 3 years
Another playing devil's advocate observation. There were more players from the English Championship playing at the Euros than there were from the Eredivisie, an indication of quality. Ten Hag's claim to the Old Trafford throne is he has won the Dutch league twice. Daniel Farke has won the Championship twice. But i have not heard anyone - before he struggled again in the Prem - suggest that he should ever be considered for a top Prem job let alone the United hot seat.
Is is based on the idea that Pochettino would splash on Kane? Those are merely click bait rumors surely. Funny enough it's Pochettino who aided in the development a young Kane and cemented his place in the Spurs first team by trusting and selecting him. Pochetinno likes working with youth players just as much as Ten Hag.
Funny enough one of Ten Hag's biggest supporters on here suggested that he would bring Haller with him to united
I think this is the case here and it's the hallmark of a good manager. Pochetinno was also able to achieve this with players like Rickie Lambert, Lallana (both never looked so great at Liverpool), Nathaniel Clyne, Delle Ali, Jay Rodriguez and arguably Luke Shaw who's never completely instilled confidence among a sub section of united supporters
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Was Mourinho or LVG not experienced enough for you? You would have shunned the likes of Tuchel and Klopp years ago. Sometime’s its not so clear cut but the fact you want Moyes or Hassenhuttl is laughable
To add to this, Frank De Boer won four back to back titles at Ajax and flopped really hard at Crystal Palace. He even flopped at my local club Atlanta United with LVG-like slow possession football. Peter Bosz who took Ajax to the EL final (the young squad we beat 2-0) flopped at Borussia Dortmund.
I don't trust Dutch managers in the PL and I while I think Ten Hag could potentially be successful here I still think he's a much bigger risk than many care to admit
That’s a bit disingenuous. I don’t think the main attraction of ETH is his silverware count. The fact he has one is a plus, but it isn’t his biggest plus.
For me, it’s the style of football that he’s playing. I see him as a coach who, with the right support, would have a team matching the ability of Pep, Tuchel and Klopp. I don’t think it’s viable to challenge for a league over the course of a season with a system that relies too heavily on individual brilliance.
Ten Hag would implement the system he has employed at Ajax, which has survived the gutting of his CL impressing squad and has risen again this season. There’s clearly a consistent coherent system being implemented by the coach, and possibly one of the limiting factors he is facing is his ability to hire better personnel.
I think it would be very interesting to see him given the job and the backing and allowed a few years to see it develop.
Ten Hag plays a completely different style of football to De Boer.
But they're both Dutch and coached Ajax though, they have to be clones
Don't you want to enjoy football? Ten Hag might fail, but if he does, at least he'll be trying to implement football worth watching and want to make us great to watch again. I want to be entertained.
Frank De Boer is a good extra example.
Vincent Janssen was top scorer in the Dutch league.and went to Spurs and flopped. Klass Jan-Huntelaar was top Dutch league scorer when he moved to Real Madrid but could not replicate that at the higher level.
So many examples.
Now having said all this it doesnt mean that Ten Hag might do a good job. He is just, in my view, another huge risk. When there are proven managers like Conte that we have passed on. Tuchel would be phenomenal but i would wager the situation at Chelsea would sort itself.
I never said they did and that's not the point of my post
Yes they absolutely are clones. Thought I was being subtle
With that argument you get in Daniel Farke. His teams play attractive football and has won the English Championship twice ( far more players in that league in the Euros than in the Dutch league)
Your logic is unique, I'll give you that. Slightly baffling, but at least it's different. The Championships style is totally different, which is what matters, your random Euros thing is just odd. There's more players from the Championship because I'd wager the wages are much better than in the Netherlands, and people would rather play in England.
Dutch managers have fared much better in Spain when it comes to football at the highest level. England not so much bar Guus Hiddink who did well in his two interim spells at Chelsea. I've mentioned here already and will do it again.
Ruud Gullit and his 'sexy' football at Newcastle and Chelsea flopped. Van Gaal, Koeman, Martin Jol, Dick Advocatt (who I admire) and our old boy Meulensteen all flopped in the premier league and they had different styles.
Your point is Dutch managers style doesn't fit in England and to an extent i agree but Ten Hag's style is more aggressive than the other Dutch managers you mentioned.
Sounds like just the man for us.
You're not making the point you think pointing out where the Norwegian League sits in Europe nor with Ole's Interim stint everyone except Utd fans could see it was a mistake hiring him permanently anyway but emotions clouded judgement.
Conte is a top manager but he wasn't the right fit. Our squad needs a project manager rather than a serial winner they're not good enough to win a lottery leave alone a trophy(and on a side note Conte has only had ONE successful attempt at winning a cup competition out of TWENTY FIVE attempts and it was the Fa cup in 2018 and his European Record isn't much better than Ole's when he's not winning you a league title he's a pointless appointment). His 352/343 is also very unsuitable to our squad especially the attackers we need to build towards 433/4231
Koeman didn't perform anywhere near as well as Ten Hag in Europe and his football wasn't anywhere near as good. ETH is a gamble but I'd rather we took a gamble with potential to make us great than once again making the "safe and obvious" appointments that haven't served us well
The best/most successful managers in the Premier League have all come from outside England. Fergie (Scotland), Wenger (Japan), Mourinho, (Portugal), Pep (Germany/Spain), Klopp (Germany). With them they brought in new ideas and changed the league. Possibly because they had time in other leagues to experiment and change the norm. I would be surprised if we found the answer in England. I'm not saying its not possible but unlikely. We have tried proven and Premier League experience with Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and it hasn't worked. Why would it this time?
I am calm about next manager. Eth and Poch will do well here. In Poch defence; PSG is so toxic team to manage.Messi, Neymar and Mbappe are bigger than manager and because of that any manager is doomed there. Remember when Poch subbed Messi? fecking owner sent him public message; do it one more time and you are out.
My only wish is that we do it soon so that new manager can make some calls before season starts.
Future is bright.
My only wish is that we do it soon so that new manager can make some calls before season starts.
Future is bright.
I agree, his style is indeed more aggressive and I'd welcome his appointment if it was announced but as of now I remain very skeptical chiefly because he hasn't managed in a top league and failed to replicate his 2019 CL run which is looking more and more like an outlier. I understand the challenges of rebuilding a squad every few years has contributed to this.
However after seeing two back to back group stage exits from the CL, lack of a deep run in the EL and capitulation from a winning position against Benfica (weakest team left in the CL) I just feel Ten Hag is not ready for the big stage especially at a club of this magnitude in it's current sorry state. I could potentially be disastrous for him here and any manager coming in would be a risk and have a massive job on their hands
I admit that i watched Ajax only in CL. So, is ETH's style more like Pep's (possession and high press) or direct like Klopp's?
It's interesting how people interpret football in different ways. I look at Simeone, Conte and Mourinho and see the same character in all three and that none are Manchester United managers. They just don't suit the club in any way. Our history, playing fair, no dirty tricks, playing kids, fast flowing attacking football always on the front foot dominating games is Manchester United from post war to today. This is what we stand for. To me they don't stand for any of those things. They are antiUnited in their philosophy compared to us. Everything they do screams this to me and yet others want them.
Think he's in-between. Although it's position play, it's certainly more vertical than Pep's
And you don't think Pochettino who's about to be sacked 3 times out of the 4 clubs he's managed is a risk himself? 1 or 2 sackings can be defended but a 75% sacking rate is a massive red flag as it shows he hits a ceiling then self capitulates completely. We saw the toll it had on Jose and this PSG stint could well have a similar toll on Poch. For all the risk ETH possesses at least he'd be a fresh approach to what we've done over the years and while he's riskier than Poch he has bigger potential and a better upside I'd rather we be brave and gamble with what he could become than with Poch whom you know exactly what you'll get solid top 4 finishes odd deep cup runs but no trophies, no challenging for major honors and a sacking after 2/3 years
By the way Ten Hag lost a lot of key players between 2019-2021 his poor cup runs in Europe can be excused a little due to not having a settled team in that period
It's hard to judge a team like Ajax sometimes because as you say they will always have to go through the cycle of refreshing the squad every few years. Because they are a team that is so well run structurally and recruitment and academy wise they always have lots of people stand out who go and get a bigger move.
After they got to the semis and within minutes of the final they ended up losing De jong and De Ligt that summer and then lost VDB and Ziyech not long after so their spine has gone so they have to always rebuild. But what makes any rebuild they do harder is the emphasis on constantly bringing new young talent from the academy or elsewhere into the squad which will take time to develop. Plus they got north of 150 million for them but can't spend all that money replacing them as anyone worth 30-40 million won't go to the Dutch league so they've got to replace 30-50 million pound players using either the academy or buying replacements for half the price their predecessor was sold for. So it was always evident they'd struggle to hit the heights they did a few years ago but he's done a good job rebuilding regardless and i'd like to see what he could do at United with the power to spend and attract bigger names than he can at Ajax.
Jeez I've seen it all now.
Been reading that Keano, would like Simeone. How would that fit with UTD fans, he's tough and would command respect straight away from, players and officials. I wouldn't disagree if he was appointed.
His football is ugly, and it's the exact opposite of what most would want. I can't believe after what we witnessed on Tuesday people still like the idea of him in charge.
Stam
Van nistelrooy
Suarez
Overmars
Van persie
Anyone can hand pick examples to fit their argument, you chose flops, Janssen and Huntelaar.... in the interest of fairness, iv hand picked 5 of the best imports the premier league has seen, all straight from the dutch league.
What this shows is that its probably best to judge an individual on their own merits, rather than on what others from the same league have done in the past.
I considered the fact ETH has to rebuild often but that's the job at Ajax. Are you aware that Ten Hag doesn't rotate that much? In 2019 he praised the squad depth and utilized it to good effect but in ensuing seasons Ajax has developed even more star youth players, purchased some experienced players but Ten Hag largely doesn't rotate and this has caused a few groans among supporters.
Blind for instance has been used in games at LB like the Benfica first leg CL draw when Tagliafico was expected to play that role
ETH doesn't have a bigger potential or upside for me by default. I feel people assume he does just because he hasn't had the chance to face harsher conditions and challenges at a bigger club, hasn't failed and faced the challenge of having to get back up at this level of scrutiny, so he retains some mystique about him.
He's barely done anything as a head coach before his Ajax stint. Give Pochettino that Ajax job and he'd have likely achieved the same or similar even in Europe (he beat Ten Hag with Spurs) because he also likes to manage young and hungry players. Peter Bosz before Ten Hag had a lot of potential as well it was said but he got fired at Dortmund and has settled at Lyon. Pottechino's potential is not wasted at 48. He's gone through a spectrum of experiences that will serve him better going forward as he continues to grow and develop as a manager. Moyes has learned his own lessons from his bruises for instance and is probably the best version of himself right now. Just an example.
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Please please be WUM
I'm not saying Moyes is better but the fact is Moyes is proven in the premiership and Ten Hag isn't proven anywhere outside Holland.
My worry is Ten Hag is overhyped by people who have never even watched any of his games for example 99% of this forum and he could set us back years if he flops just like Moyes did
Erik Ten Hag's Red and White army.
Good post, but we must also realize at Ajax Ten Hag is just the head coach and he had that supportive structure behind him to oversee the rebuild, recruitment and such. Ajax's famous conveyor belt of talent precedes Ten Hag and will be there without him. Whoever manages that club will have to try harder to fail than achieve some level of domestic success
It's not even a rebuild per se, it's a culture at Ajax and always has been. Van Gaal went through it in the 90s when the brightest talents among his brilliant young squads of the mid 90s were sold off to the highest bidders across Europe before he eventually left himself for Barcelona. That period was special because of the European success they achieved like it was 1971 all over again and Ten Hag's run in 2019 reminded many of that. Van Gaal was truly special because he proved that run wasn't a fluke because he took that young squad to two consecutive finals (winning once), same as the early 70s team that won it twice on the trot.
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Actually got couple pages up and you are actually being serious.
Moyes like, seriously
He's not going to set us back any further than we are right now if he flops, unless you think he'd get us relegated? That would be a bit of a bugger, but the season in the championship would be a right laugh, so not that bad all things considered.
So lets get this correct. We are worried about getting ETH as it might stop us:
Winning any trophies
Getting top 4
Having a good CL run
Playing good consistent football
Is it just me here who is a bit confused??
Winning any trophies
Getting top 4
Having a good CL run
Playing good consistent football
Is it just me here who is a bit confused??
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