Next permanent manager | Poll updated

[Cloud7]

Rumored to be, but their relationship is unclear. She is what I'd call an unofficial Liverpool spokesperson and her personal investment there is well-known. I wouldn't trust her to be unbiased.

But even if she is, it's a nothing article. The same arguments that have been chewed here ad nauseam. Poch=Safe, Ten Hag=Risk.

We know this. No one really thinks Pochettino is not a good manager. He knows what he is doing. He is good enough to comfortably win 4th place each year, maybe even 3rd, win FA and Carabao. But his faculties are established by this point and most people who don't want him as manager simply do not believe he is capable of winning the highest accolades. Which is what this club should be doing - going after the PL and CL. Everyone recognizes Erik ten Hag as a risk. He is shrouded in doubt and mystery due to his short CV. Nobody knows for sure if he is capable, but the potential is there. He has shown hunger that Pochettino hasn't.

Will the club take the safe option once again or finally show some ambition and pick the risky one? It's what ultimately boils down to. And to be honest, I don't view Ten Hag as that risky. I fail to see how he could somehow turn out so much worse than Poch as to make him a bad decision in retrospect.

Top post

 

[RkkMan]

Let's face it, if this was 1986, the same arguments against Ten Haag would be levelled at SAF, won a farmers league and did much better in Europe than expected.

Many fans, including me, lost patience with him, but he went on to prove us all wrong, very wrong.

Liverpool had to be patient with Klopp too, don't forget.

Poch would be a safe pair of hands, for a few years. Ten Haag maybe has the potential to build something great.

Except you're completely wrong. The Scottish League was one of the strongest leagues in Europe at the time and Sir Alex not only broke the Celtic/Rangers dominance but he had a European Cup to his name. For all the plaudits ETH is getting he's only won trophies in the Dutch League just like Frank De Boer he has a lot more to prove and his profile doesn't touch Sir Alex's prior to joining Utd
The reason Liverpool were patient with Klopp is because he was already a proven world class manager and anyone except casuals could see what he was trying to build. ETH is a POTENTIALLY world class manager but he's not yet earned the plaudits to be called one

 

[RkkMan]

Rumored to be, but their relationship is unclear. She is what I'd call an unofficial Liverpool spokesperson and her personal investment there is well-known. I wouldn't trust her to be unbiased.

But even if she is, it's a nothing article. The same arguments that have been chewed here ad nauseam. Poch=Safe, Ten Hag=Risk.

We know this. No one really thinks Pochettino is not a good manager. He knows what he is doing. He is good enough to comfortably win 4th place each year, maybe even 3rd, win FA and Carabao. But his faculties are established by this point and most people who don't want him as manager simply do not believe he is capable of winning the highest accolades. Which is what this club should be doing - going after the PL and CL. Everyone recognizes Erik ten Hag as a risk. He is shrouded in doubt and mystery due to his short CV. Nobody knows for sure if he is capable, but the potential is there. He has shown hunger that Pochettino hasn't.

Will the club take the safe option once again or finally show some ambition and pick the risky one? It's what ultimately boils down to. And to be honest, I don't view Ten Hag as that risky. I fail to see how he could somehow turn out so much worse than Poch as to make him a bad decision in retrospect.

It's completely unfair to say Pochettino doesn't have a hunger to win trophies due to his stint at Spurs no? If it was easy to do so why couldn't a "serial winner" in Mourinho do it? Conte isn't likely to win a trophy there this season either and the way Spurs are run he'll likely walk away by Christmas. Pochettino turned them from being "Lads it's Tottenham" to having them in title challenges, consistent top 4 finishes, beating the likes of Madrid, Juventus and even ETH's Ajax team in the CL plus getting them to a CL final with significantly less spending power than the other big teams in England. Also worth noting under him they hit their highest point tally of 86 points which wins you a PL title last season. It's not outrageous to think he could actually take that next step he needs as a trophy winning manager with us once he's gotten a taste of winning with PSG plus the experience of managing in a big club with big egos which ETH doesn't. For all the talk of ETH having potential he's 51 and Poch is 2 years younger(and people are saying he's declining and past his peak)with experience managing in Spain, England and France as well as having the experience of competing with Pep, Klopp and Conte week in week out which is vital. His profile is a lot more adaptable to ETH who's only managed full time in Netherlands with Ajax who are the richest and most successful club there it's vastly unknown how he'll adapt having to compete with other big dogs weekly. Like I said if ETH is good enough for people here Pochettino is more than deserving to be in the conversation

 

[bond19821982]

I think it should be Poch considering the players that we have. A philosophy bro like Ten Hag is doomed to fail. If we're keeping DDG, Maguire, Rashford, Ronaldo etc we need someone a bit more pragmatic.

That's a weird take. For once, let's go and dominate games against the big guns. Poch isn't gonna doing it.

 

[bond19821982]

Why should RR be an option? If we finish the season in 5th, no trophies and no good cup run is that good enough? Right now we are technically 6th since both Spurs & Arsenal have games in hand.

The same reason why Rodgers, Mancini, Rose, potters etc is on the list ?

 

[We Need Another Rebuild]

It's completely unfair to say Pochettino doesn't have a hunger to win trophies due to his stint at Spurs no? If it was easy to do so why couldn't a "serial winner" in Mourinho do it? Conte isn't likely to win a trophy there this season either and the way Spurs are run he'll likely walk away by Christmas. Pochettino turned them from being "Lads it's Tottenham" to having them in title challenges, consistent top 4 finishes, beating the likes of Madrid, Juventus and even ETH's Ajax team in the CL plus getting them to a CL final with significantly less spending power than the other big teams in England. Also worth noting under him they hit their highest point tally of 86 points which wins you a PL title last season. It's not outrageous to think he could actually take that next step he needs as a trophy winning manager with us once he's gotten a taste of winning with PSG plus the experience of managing in a big club with big egos which ETH doesn't. For all the talk of ETH having potential he's 51 and Poch is 2 years younger(and people are saying he's declining and past his peak)with experience managing in Spain, England and France as well as having the experience of competing with Pep, Klopp and Conte week in week out which is vital. His profile is a lot more adaptable to ETH who's only managed full time in Netherlands with Ajax who are the richest and most successful club there it's vastly unknown how he'll adapt having to compete with other big dogs weekly. Like I said if ETH is good enough for people here Pochettino is more than deserving to be in the conversation

He finished Top 4 with Spurs trophy that what we are rewarding now as an achievement

He Consistently finished inside the Top 4 during his time but was never really in a Title race

The Title should of been there's when Leicester won it but they bottled it had the far better team & still finished 3rd

The Following season they finished 2nd but miles away from Chelsea

Won the French FA Cup with PSG & will win the league this year where he has been criticised & still a country mile ahead

Got to a Champions League Final but didn't win it & Liverpool weren't exactly amazing that day - plus he bottled it Dropping Moura who was the only reason they made it

Serial Bottler may as well bring in Brendan Rodgers he's won a Title in a Farmers league

 

[PeteManic]

I'll go back to my same point again - I don't see any serious manager wanting it. For me it's 90% certain that Ragnick will just keep going.

 

[andersj]

ETH is a bigger risk than Poch and fans recognise that. Her point is moot. Fans just think ETH can reach a higher level.

I agree. And I would personally prefer ETH or even Potter. But I’ve come to terms with that it will be Pochettino. Because I think the guys making the decision will prefer a lower risk, lower reward type of hire. I think the Glazer probably prefer that too.

If you try to compare the CV of the two managers in a factual manner, without trying to be too smart and make several assumptions, it kind of makes sense. I get that it is not a popular view or that it dont make him the best choice but Pochettino has (at 49, soon 50);

- Done very well in the PL with a bottom half team (newly promoted, sold players for a fortune, finished 8th, left them in a good state)
- Did very well with a PL-team in the tier below Man Utd (finished top 4 every season, reached the CL-final, spent very little compared to others)
- Will probably have done what was expected of him at PSG (a club with big stars and expectations)? Win Ligue 1. Question mark over CL and last years finish.

In general, too few titles!

So, overall, lots of PL-experience. Experience from a big club. Relatively young. Non-controversial.

Eric Ten Hag looks good too.

- Did very well with a few smaller teams in Eredivise
- Did great multiple times with Ajax in the CL «knocking over their weight»
- Impressively superior in Eredivise with Ajax

Question mark over little experience outside of Eredivise.

If I dont factor in how they play football and try to think too much about context, I must
admit, Pochettino is probably the safe and boring option, low risk option.

 

[RkkMan]

I'll go back to my same point again - I don't see any serious manager wanting it. For me it's 90% certain that Ragnick will just keep going.

Ten Hag has not only said in public on the record that he's ready to take the next step but it's been reliability reported in Netherlands that he's almost certain to leave Ajax this summer after Overmars' departure(the two were reportedly very close and tight)
Pochettino was ready to jump ship from PSG in December if they had allowed him to leave. Unless Ralf wins the CL he's not staying beyond the summer when one of our long term managerial targets and the hottest managerial prospect currently are both on the market

 

[Wolf1992]

Let's face it, if this was 1986, the same arguments against Ten Haag would be levelled at SAF, won a farmers league and did much better in Europe than expected.

Many fans, including me, lost patience with him, but he went on to prove us all wrong, very wrong.

Liverpool had to be patient with Klopp too, don't forget.

Poch would be a safe pair of hands, for a few years. Ten Haag maybe has the potential to build something great.

Different era, different context.

Back then 99% of english first division managers were british, totally made sense for Man Utd to go for Ferguson, who just won the league with Aberdeen over Celtic and Rangers.
Plus Scottish league back then was good, unlike the shitshow that it is now.
Nowadays it wouldn't make sense for Man Utd or other big PL team to take a manager directly from the SPL, considering how rubbish is scottish football now, doesn't matter if said manager upsets Celtic/Rangers.

Now when italian,german,spanish, or dutch managers are available(unlike 40 years ago) would make zero sense for Man Utd to take a manager directly from current SPL.

Context matters.

 

[Ish]

ETH for me - by quite some distance as well.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Top teams in Europe - Barcelona, Bayern Munich & Real Madrid always have a very good squad because of their world class football structure. Hence, most managers would do well there. City is also building their club towards that blueprints.

Liverpool is just lucky striking jackpot with Klopp. Without Klopp, Liverpool will be Liverpool again.

Man Utd is neither. We don't have top football structure or top manager. We need to rebuild the club step by step. Murtough need to develop the squad to be amongst the best. This should be achievable given our vast resources and we spent most in the world last decade. We should be less reliant on Manager's genius.

ETH, Poch, Enrique are all good options with pros and cons. I would be happy with any of them. We can't get a generational talent like Pep or Klopp.

However, the focus should be on Murtough to build the squad and football structure like BM, Barca, RM and City blueprints.

 

[Rolaholic]

Barca? Barca haven't had a good sporting structure in years and they lost the glue that held them together and have predictably fallen down completely to the Europa level they're at right now since. Our glue was Fergie.

They're in the same boat as United are, minus the arrests of board members, and don't belong in the same bracket as the truly well ran clubs in Europe.

 

[Adnan]

That's a weird take. For once, let's go and dominate games against the big guns. Poch isn't gonna doing it.

Agreed.

If we carry on pandering to the same players we'll never progress. We need a coach who will come in and look to implement a proactive brand of football. And if that means showing the door to the likes of de Gea, Ronaldo etc then so be it.

Also the Melissa Reddy article is the regular stuff that's posted on here by fans wanting Pochettino. Similar arguments have been made for ten Hag, but the key difference between both coaches is that ten Hag looks to implement a on the ball game, which Pochettino has never shown the ability to coach imo. ETH coaches a off the ball game to match but Pochettino has never shown the ability to control a game in possession to the same level.

It's like having to choose between two artists to draw a picture. The first one (Poch) looks to draw a basic picture and the second one (ten Hag) looks to draw the more challenging extravagant picture. The first option is possibly less risky but the second option being riskier also comes with the potential of much bigger rewards.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Mods please don’t!! Let’s be unified that RR should be going upstairs and not doing this whole Ole thing again.

Why paint all situations with one broad brush?

Just because Ole wasn't a long term success doesn't mean Ralf wouldn't be.

 

[Sviken]

Top teams in Europe - Barcelona, Bayern Munich & Real Madrid always have a very good squad because of their world class football structure. Hence, most managers would do well there. City is also building their club towards that blueprints.

Barca haven't had a good structure since the Pep days. Post-Pep they've basically been us - spent obscene amount of money on flashy players that got them nowhere. Real Madrid, in terms of football structure, are IMO, very overrated. They got massively fecking lucky with Cristiano and that wasn't even Florentino's choice. We're not that different than most other top clubs. Sure, you can argue Bayern and Man City are much better than us, but as far as Man City goes, is that really the case? Before Pep they just spent "feck you" money on bang average players (and struck gold with the lieks of Aguero and Silva), but overall they weren't that impressive. Only Pep made them to be so. I'm not entirely sure they can continue with their dominance once he leaves because more or less he fully controls the club there. It's practically his playground to do whatever he wants.

 

[captaincantona]

My biggest want as a Utd fan would appear to be a bit spoilt. I am sick of us having to out fox pool and city and any decent side really. Would just love a manger that imposes our way of playing on the other team. Technically we have the budget and so this shouldn’t be a huge ask...but maybe we should just be happy to get back in the mix first.

I don’t think Poch would come in and we would begin to go toe to toe with top sides...but maybe that’s where we have to start...to just get back in the conversation.

for me ETH would be as exciting as it gets and better than any signing we might make next summer. Poch would be a step forward...nothing more.

 

[lex talionis]

There's no wrong answer between Ten Had and Pochettino. With Ten Hag there are more unknowns but with arguably a greater upside, but Pochettino we can be pretty confident of a top four finish but few would argue that he's an innovative tactician. Do we roll the dice with a new manager who would be new the PL or with a manager who knows the PL well but hasn't won anything yet in his managerial career? That's not an easy question to answer, and although I do not object to Pochettino I lean toward Ten Hag.

 

[RkkMan]

Agreed.

If we carry on pandering to the same players we'll never progress. We need a coach who will come in and look to implement a proactive brand of football. And if that means showing the door to the likes of de Gea, Ronaldo etc then so be it.

Also the Melissa Reddy article is the regular stuff that's posted on here by fans wanting Pochettino. Similar arguments have been made for ten Hag, but the key difference between both coaches is that ten Hag looks to implement a on the ball game, which Pochettino has never shown the ability to coach imo. ETH coaches a off the ball game to match but Pochettino has never shown the ability to control a game in possession to the same level.

It's like having to choose between two artists to draw a picture. The first one (Poch) looks to draw a basic picture and the second one (ten Hag) looks to draw the more challenging extravagant picture. The first option is possibly less risky but the second option being riskier also comes with much bigger rewards.

I should point out that it's much easier to instill your style of play in the Eredevisie which isn't of the highest quality than in the PL which is very unforgiving if you aren't a Pep/Klopp level manager who needs time but guarantees results and trophies in the end. There were many times where Pochettino's teams displayed moments of control in the PL and the CL. During Spurs' peak period only Liverpool had better pressing stats than Spurs who were also very good at playing out the back with Alderweireld and Vertonghen. Dembele gave them a lot of control in midfield and Eriksen at his peak was very good at dictating the tempo of a game. There's also nothing wrong with showing a small pragmatic edge in some games depending on the dynamics, Pep's idea of ultra attacking football cost him a CL title against Tuchel who decided to be pragmatic and won the CL now I don't know about you but I'd rather win the big prize than die on only one philosophy knowing I could have done things a little differently to get a better result. The same philosophy cost ETH a place in a CL final in 2019 against Pochettino who approached the game differently but ultimately got the result but unfortunately lost to an in form Liverpool team. While ETH's idea of football is indeed a good one going from the Dutch League to the PL is an almighty step up no matter how people try to sugarcoat things compared to Pochettino who'd be coming off the experience of managing a big club, already existing PL experience, stints from 3 different countries and the experience of winning trophies with PSG which can only give him the hunger to want to win more. Also worth noting that ETH will come with a promising philosophy but unlike Klopp/Pep won't have the assurance of unprecedented success, they're both risky appointments with the same upsides and downsides.

 

[Greck]

I think it should be Poch considering the players that we have. A philosophy bro like Ten Hag is doomed to fail. If we're keeping DDG, Maguire, Rashford, Ronaldo etc we need someone a bit more pragmatic.

I half agree. Where there's disagreement is Poch was pragmatic at Spurs so on its own isn't enough to make him better for the job here. For that there are other qualities. I remember thinking Poch's weakness was naivety of trying to go toe to toe with the big boys and attacking those games. That a little more pragmatism sprinkled here and there could have even won Spurs a trophy. Anyway I'm 100% with you ETH's philosophy will weed out half of this lot. I actually almost want him here because I'm sick of watching unintelligent impulsive footballers kneecaping our attacking ceiling every week. We aren't going anywhere playing this way in a league when even the likes of Southampton play efficiently. ETH will fix this. It takes a manager confident in his system to tell Ronaldo to facilitate and stop wasting attacks with no-chance attempts, to bench rashford and tell Bruno to reconsider some passes. You need a system the players can put their faith in and one fans and the board can get behind if you decided to sell big names that don't buy in. Also because I think we need an elite system to beat Pep's City.

I actually just realised you meant Poch being pragmatic as in using what is available. Yeah I kind of agree. Just cant be bothered to reword half this post.

 

[Amadaeus]

I should point out that it's much easier to instill your style of play in the Eredevisie which isn't of the highest quality than in the PL which is very unforgiving if you aren't a Pep/Klopp level manager who needs time but guarantees results and trophies in the end. There were many times where Pochettino's teams displayed moments of control in the PL and the CL. During Spurs' peak period only Liverpool had better pressing stats than Spurs who were also very good at playing out the back with Alderweireld and Vertonghen. Dembele gave them a lot of control in midfield and Eriksen at his peak was very good at dictating the tempo of a game. There's also nothing wrong with showing a small pragmatic edge in some games depending on the dynamics, Pep's idea of ultra attacking football cost him a CL title against Tuchel who decided to be pragmatic and won the CL now I don't know about you but I'd rather win the big prize than die on only one philosophy knowing I could have done things a little differently to get a better result. The same philosophy cost ETH a place in a CL final in 2019 against Pochettino who approached the game differently but ultimately got the result but unfortunately lost to an in form Liverpool team. While ETH's idea of football is indeed a good one going from the Dutch League to the PL is an almighty step up no matter how people try to sugarcoat things compared to Pochettino who'd be coming off the experience of managing a big club, already existing PL experience, stints from 3 different countries and the experience of winning trophies with PSG which can only give him the hunger to want to win more. Also worth noting that ETH will come with a promising philosophy but unlike Klopp/Pep won't have the assurance of unprecedented success, they're both risky appointments with the same upsides and downsides.

Adnan is a poch hater and troll. Just a few weeks ago, poch dominated possession against real Madrid and has dominated possessionagainst most team he played against this season and was one of the few teams that went against pep in this department. I believe eth can do that aswell but to say poch cant do it is wrong. His argument is flawed and one sided.

 

[RkkMan]

Adnan is a poch hater and troll. Just a few weeks ago, poch dominated possession against real Madrid. I doubt eth can do that. His argument is flawed

To be fair ETH completely dominated Dortmund this season(plus his CL group in general) and even Madrid at the Bernabeau in 2019. I'm just pointing out that his twisted view of Pochettino couldn't be more further beyond the mark even though ETH isn't a slouch himself

 

[Sviken]

Adnan is a poch hater and troll. Just a few weeks ago, poch dominated possession against real Madrid and has dominated possession

To be fair, this Madrid side is gash. I'd even fancy us against them. As far as the matches with City went, I watched them both. PSG were thoroughly dominated. Results don't always tell the whole truth. I also want to say that back before we appointed Ole, Poch would have been the perfect choice. But right now, just like Mourinho - it is a little too late and there are much better choices for us out there.

 

[Greck]

To be fair ETH completely dominated Dortmund this season(plus his CL group in general) and even Madrid at the Bernabeau in 2019. I'm just pointing out that his twisted view of Pochettino couldn't me more further beyond the mark even though ETH isn't a slouch himself

Honestly waiting for people to see there are actually solid justifiable reasons to want ETH over Poch without sentiment based takes about the latter that approach football flat earth theories. Poch is a bloody good option. If we can't get ETH I'd absolutely love Poch here. I might have had him as undisputed first choice if Pep hadn't raised the bar to depressing heights. Right now I think we should prioritize which of these excellent managers has a more complete system that can go toe to toe with Pep over the course of a season.

 

[Amadaeus]

To be fair ETH completely dominated Dortmund this season(plus his CL group in general) and even Madrid at the Bernabeau in 2019. I'm just pointing out that his twisted view of Pochettino couldn't be more further beyond the mark even though ETH isn't a slouch himself

yea, I edited my original post before your response. i don’t doubt ETh can do that as well.

To be fair, this Madrid side is gash. I'd even fancy us against them. As far as the matches with City went, I watched them both. PSG were thoroughly dominated. Results don't always tell the whole truth. I also want to say that back before we appointed Ole, Poch would have been the perfect choice. But right now, just like Mourinho - it is a little too late and there are much better choices for us out there.

so la Liga is a shite league because Real Madrid is on top at the moment. I don’t believe this Real Madrid side is gash. I just believe that they turn up on certain occasions and had a gameplan that made psg much more dominant that they wouldnt imagine in that game. I also don’t understand the narrative of a bit to late for poch. ETh is older and poch hasnt been able to implement his style of football at psg because they have forward that can’t press. In fact, he has shown the ability to adapt his game at his time there. Has ETh showed that he is more than a possession oriented manager? Even pep showed that if necessary he can set up on the counter as well.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[kundalini]

I'd invite ten Hag, Pochettino, Potter and Rangnick to interviews 2 weeks after the season has finished. I'd want to know their plans in terms of how they would look to play, transfers and timescale for progress. Then select the person based on what they said. For starters, they would have to be far more proactive than we've seen since Sir Alex retired. Suggested transfers would have to be realistic, both in terms of number of deals, costs and chances of getting a particular player.

I do think that it is now clear that any United manager that fails to make a genuine title or CL challenge within their first 2 full seasons is in serious danger of getting fired during their 3rd season or earlier, regardless of whether the club wants them to stay or not. The idea that Pochettino or ten Hag would get longer to make a case, seems wildly unrealistic to me.

 

[Mainoldo]

Why paint all situations with one broad brush?

Just because Ole wasn't a long term success doesn't mean Ralf wouldn't be.

Ralf ain’t not F’ing option for full time manager for us when when we have all the options that have been stated. Stop being silly. You’ll be the first to post it’s time to sack him when he over stays his welcome if given it full time. He’s doing an okay job for a man who hasnt Managed in 7 years or however it’s been…let him do his proper job.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

I'd invite ten Hag, Pochettino, Potter and Rangnick to interviews 2 weeks after the season has finished. I'd want to know their plans in terms of how they would look to play, transfers and timescale for progress. Then select the person based on what they said. For starters, they would have to be far more proactive than we've seen since Sir Alex retired. Suggested transfers would have to be realistic, both in terms of number of deals, costs and chances of getting a particular player.

I do think that it is now clear that any United manager that fails to make a genuine title or CL challenge within their first 2 full seasons is in serious danger of getting fired during their 3rd season or earlier, regardless of whether the club wants them to stay or not. The idea that Pochettino or ten Hag would get longer to make a case, seems wildly unrealistic to me.

Agree except for the Rangnick part, we can’t afford to repeat the same mistakes of missing out on up and coming world class managers. It’s vital with the state of the club that we get the next appointment right, if an elite manager is available then snap them up. Ralf is desperately needed upstairs so there is a football presence with the decision makers.

 

[Caesar2290]

Except you're completely wrong. The Scottish League was one of the strongest leagues in Europe at the time and Sir Alex not only broke the Celtic/Rangers dominance but he had a European Cup to his name. For all the plaudits ETH is getting he's only won trophies in the Dutch League just like Frank De Boer he has a lot more to prove and his profile doesn't touch Sir Alex's prior to joining Utd
The reason Liverpool were patient with Klopp is because he was already a proven world class manager and anyone except casuals could see what he was trying to build. ETH is a POTENTIALLY world class manager but he's not yet earned the plaudits to be called one

He wasn't really. He won the Bundesliga and DFB Pokal, but once Bayern got their act together he couldn't remotely touch them. His squad was just as good as Poch's Spurs one: Lewandowski, Gundogan, Reus, Goetze, Hummels, etc. Reached the CL final only to be beaten by the same Bayern(one of the best sides I've seen in CL).

Really good record, but imploded as soon as they sold most of their players. When he joined Liverpool he was the laughing stock of most of CAF until he signed Van Dijk. Let's not pretend he was Pep reincarnate. He became WC at Liverpool. And to me that is one of the things we have yet to see with Klopp, how does he handle his squad rebuilds. So far he has shown both at Mainz and Dortmund, that not great. Fingers crossed he keeps this tradition going at Pool.

ETH on the other hand had a similar feat with a vastly inferior Ajax team. He used Tadic as CF in that 2019, fecking Soton flop turned prolific goalscoarer Tadic.

But the thing that sold me on him is how he handled his squad rebuild. Can you name any current Ajax star players? Only Gravenberch comes to mind, everyone else is either a PL flop or academy/up and coming youngster. And the fact that you can't name and stand out players simply points to the fact just how well drilled as a unit Ajax is a unit. I haven't seen a small team this well drilled and that is capable of going to toe with the big boys since Mourinho's Porto.

To me this current Ajax side looks way better drilled than the 2019 one, but the lack of star players that can make a difference might cost them in later rounds of the CL where a single moment of magic is often what separates 2 tactically equal teams.

As for Sir Alex and his Scottish managerial stint, let's not pretend that the SPL was some prime league in the world. There is a reason SAF left the SPL midseason for a failing United. While the SPL was a bit better than it was today, it wasn't the same as in the 70's. As such, it was below the pecking order of EPL, which in turn was a good tier lower than the Spanish and Italian leagues at the time. Also his Aberdeen side weren't exactly relegation fodder. At the time they were the 3rd biggest club in the country. SAF just made them overachieve kind of like Klopp did at Dortmund and Mourinho did at Porto.

 

[Becks00]

I should point out that it's much easier to instill your style of play in the Eredevisie which isn't of the highest quality than in the PL which is very unforgiving if you aren't a Pep/Klopp level manager who needs time but guarantees results and trophies in the end. There were many times where Pochettino's teams displayed moments of control in the PL and the CL. During Spurs' peak period only Liverpool had better pressing stats than Spurs who were also very good at playing out the back with Alderweireld and Vertonghen. Dembele gave them a lot of control in midfield and Eriksen at his peak was very good at dictating the tempo of a game. There's also nothing wrong with showing a small pragmatic edge in some games depending on the dynamics, Pep's idea of ultra attacking football cost him a CL title against Tuchel who decided to be pragmatic and won the CL now I don't know about you but I'd rather win the big prize than die on only one philosophy knowing I could have done things a little differently to get a better result. The same philosophy cost ETH a place in a CL final in 2019 against Pochettino who approached the game differently but ultimately got the result but unfortunately lost to an in form Liverpool team. While ETH's idea of football is indeed a good one going from the Dutch League to the PL is an almighty step up no matter how people try to sugarcoat things compared to Pochettino who'd be coming off the experience of managing a big club, already existing PL experience, stints from 3 different countries and the experience of winning trophies with PSG which can only give him the hunger to want to win more. Also worth noting that ETH will come with a promising philosophy but unlike Klopp/Pep won't have the assurance of unprecedented success, they're both risky appointments with the same upsides and downsides.

The point about it being much easier for ETH to implement his style of play because of the relative quality of the Eredivise to Epl, I think should also apply to Poch and his Psg team now. And I wouldn't particularly say he has impressed in that instance as regards what Adnan mentions about his on the ball coaching capability, I don't watch the French league well enough to pass judgement regarding this and can only go by the opinion of Psg fans in this forum and on their own forums, based on those opinions he has not really had them playing dominant football(or the kind of football this fans believe their team should he playing).

Someone said it best in a post above, our next managerial appointment should be determined by whichever of the candidates have a more complete system that can compete toe to toe with Pep and Klopp over the course course of a season and I don't think Poch can do that.

 

[wolvored]

I'll go back to my same point again - I don't see any serious manager wanting it. For me it's 90% certain that Ragnick will just keep going.

Pocc will want it I think. Hes aready said he wants to come back to England to manage.

 

[AneRu]

I've read it without subscription and she made a very great point saying Pochettino "committed the crime" of managing in a league where his strengths and weaknesses were clear to see whereas ETH has an unknown entity about him which makes him look like the shiny new toy despite the risks Ten Hag himself comes with

Why does the cynic in me smell the beginning of a campaign to talk up Pochettino, the club and the media know that fans are sceptical of Pochettino and they don't trust the club to make the right choice especially after the recent Ole debacle where they jumped the gun only to end up falling flat on their faces.

I think the club knows that ETH would demand wholesale squad changes because a lot of our established players won't have the requisite attributes for his style. They don't fit what 2014-17 Poch was about but having been burnt at Spurs and likely to fail at PSG he more likely to be in a position to be more accommodating of our dross, which would cost hundreds of millions to move on and replace. This is why they want him, he will buy their B.S about multiple year rebuilds and half arsed transfer windows.

In my view, if ETH can successfully implement his style outside the Ajax environment then he has the best chance of breaking the Klopp and Pep duopoly at the top level. Poch will just do what he did at Spurs i.e deliver CL football on a budget but that's clearly not enough to make us relevant at the top level again.

 

[Sviken]

so la Liga is a shite league because Real Madrid is on top at the moment. I don’t believe this Real Madrid side is gash. I just believe that they turn up on certain occasions and had a gameplan that made psg much more dominant that they wouldnt imagine in that game. I also don’t understand the narrative of a bit to late for poch. ETh is older and poch hasnt been able to implement his style of football at psg because they have forward that can’t press. In fact, he has shown the ability to adapt his game at his time there. Has ETh showed that he is more than a possession oriented manager? Even pep showed that if necessary he can set up on the counter as well.

Yes, La Liga is currently very shit. Atletico are disastrous, Barcelona are a clown club, although Xavi is doing a decent job at the moment, but there are still far and away from being a top club (in terms of performing), Valencia are massively underperforming and that leaves Sevilla who are performing decently, but are more in theire position comparative to the rest of their league rather than being "good". Madrid are just the least worst of the bunch. I've watched them a couple of times this season and they've been very unmrpessive. I'm not joking when I say I'd fancy our chances against them.

It's a bit too late for Poch because:
1. The timing is not right. We need a progressive manager that will revamp this club into his image, ala Guardiola and Klopp, not another "end justifies the means". With the exception of LvG, all of our managers so far had no identity which has been disastrous for our club.
2. There are simply better and more exciting options out there, Ten Hag being the obvious one. Why would you buy an Accord when you can buy a Mustang? We've seen what Ten Hag can do, we see how his teams dominate akin to Pep. Poch has never been able to achieve something similar in terms of playstyle, even with his Spurs side.
3. You argue that Poch hasn't been able to implement his style, and that is true - PSG are a bit of a clown club, same as us. So how does that make his case for us? What makes you think he would be able to implement his style here despite PSG and us being similarly run?
4. Poch, unless he wins the CL would be coming from 3 jobs so far that have went very badly. He's not liked by PSG's management or the club's fanbase, he was sacked from Espanyol and his Spurs run ended terribly. This is a formulation of a pattern I do not want to see at United. On the other hand, despite the small sample, Ten Hag has thoroughly impressed at both Ajax and Utrecht

It's not a case of Poch being a bad manager, he's decent. But can he really compete with Klopp and Guardiola? Very, very much doubt that. On the other hand, I believe Ten Hag has that potential. I also want to add that for a lot of people here the football Ten Hag plays is much more enjoyable to watch. Spurs were a decent side, nice to watch, but nothing spectacular. But when I watch Ajax, it's like watching a Guardiola team play. The way they just obliterate teams is fascinating to watch, despite Ten Hag not really possessing a "great" set of players. Most of the players he has at the moment you probably haven't even heard of. And if we're to have any chance of going back to the pinnacle of football, that is what we need.

Why does the cynic in me smell the beginning of a campaign to talk up Pochettino, the club and the media know that fans are sceptical of Pochettino and they don't trust the club to make the right choice especially after the recent Ole debacle where they jumped the gun only to end up falling flat on their faces.

I think Ducker a few months back, when Ole was sacked and there were lots of talks about Poch, Ducker said he believes that the noise is coming from his camp. And Ducker is one of the few that are actual mouthpieces of the lcub, so it wouldn't surprise me if Poch wants to drum up interest for his case.

 

[AneRu]

I should point out that it's much easier to instill your style of play in the Eredevisie which isn't of the highest quality than in the PL which is very unforgiving if you aren't a Pep/Klopp level manager who needs time but guarantees results and trophies in the end. There were many times where Pochettino's teams displayed moments of control in the PL and the CL. During Spurs' peak period only Liverpool had better pressing stats than Spurs who were also very good at playing out the back with Alderweireld and Vertonghen. Dembele gave them a lot of control in midfield and Eriksen at his peak was very good at dictating the tempo of a game. There's also nothing wrong with showing a small pragmatic edge in some games depending on the dynamics, Pep's idea of ultra attacking football cost him a CL title against Tuchel who decided to be pragmatic and won the CL now I don't know about you but I'd rather win the big prize than die on only one philosophy knowing I could have done things a little differently to get a better result. The same philosophy cost ETH a place in a CL final in 2019 against Pochettino who approached the game differently but ultimately got the result but unfortunately lost to an in form Liverpool team. While ETH's idea of football is indeed a good one going from the Dutch League to the PL is an almighty step up no matter how people try to sugarcoat things compared to Pochettino who'd be coming off the experience of managing a big club, already existing PL experience, stints from 3 different countries and the experience of winning trophies with PSG which can only give him the hunger to want to win more. Also worth noting that ETH will come with a promising philosophy but unlike Klopp/Pep won't have the assurance of unprecedented success, they're both risky appointments with the same upsides and downsides.

ETH dismantling Juve and Real Madrid in their backyards is arguably a good indication of how he is able to transfer and impose his style to a higher level. He won't be an instant success as we would need to build a side suitable for him but l would rather take my chances with him than someone whose limit I already know.

 

[pocco]

PSG second behind City in terms of average number of passes per game apparently, from the whole of Europe. There was a poster recently saying he has no discernible style or possession or pressing. He displayed his pressing game at both Southampton and Spurs, now obviously more possession based at PSG.

Shows a bit of tactical flexibility at least. For what it's worth, Ajax weren't in the top 8 clubs in terms of passes played. Not seen entirely meaningful stat but to be second in Europe shows Poch has to a different approach with the players at his disposal at PSG.

 

[Amadaeus]

PSG second behind City in terms of average number of passes per game apparently, from the whole of Europe. There was a poster recently saying he has no discernible style or possession or pressing. He displayed his pressing game at both Southampton and Spurs, now obviously more possession based at PSG.

Shows a bit of tactical flexibility at least. For what it's worth, Ajax weren't in the top 8 clubs in terms of passes played. Not seen entirely meaningful stat but to be second in Europe shows Poch has to a different approach with the players at his disposal at PSG.

@Sviken the stat above showcase that poch team dominates, it is just a myth that his team doesn't. As stated, he just showed it again recently last week against a top side in real Madrid. And you have to remember, before psg dominated real Madrid, real Madrid was the favorite to win. So, they aren't as bad as people are making them out to be. I am even surprised that Ajax isn't in the top 8th in such an easy league.

Yes, La Liga is currently very shit. Atletico are disastrous, Barcelona are a clown club, although Xavi is doing a decent job at the moment, but there are still far and away from being a top club (in terms of performing), Valencia are massively underperforming and that leaves Sevilla who are performing decently, but are more in theire position comparative to the rest of their league rather than being "good". Madrid are just the least worst of the bunch. I've watched them a couple of times this season and they've been very unmrpessive. I'm not joking when I say I'd fancy our chances against them.

It's a bit too late for Poch because:
1. The timing is not right. We need a progressive manager that will revamp this club into his image, ala Guardiola and Klopp, not another "end justifies the means". With the exception of LvG, all of our managers so far had no identity which has been disastrous for our club.
2. There are simply better and more exciting options out there, Ten Hag being the obvious one. Why would you buy an Accord when you can buy a Mustang? We've seen what Ten Hag can do, we see how his teams dominate akin to Pep. Poch has never been able to achieve something similar in terms of playstyle, even with his Spurs side.
3. You argue that Poch hasn't been able to implement his style, and that is true - PSG are a bit of a clown club, same as us. So how does that make his case for us? What makes you think he would be able to implement his style here despite PSG and us being similarly run?
4. Poch, unless he wins the CL would be coming from 3 jobs so far that have went very badly. He's not liked by PSG's management or the club's fanbase, he was sacked from Espanyol and his Spurs run ended terribly. This is a formulation of a pattern I do not want to see at United. On the other hand, despite the small sample, Ten Hag has thoroughly impressed at both Ajax and Utrecht

It's not a case of Poch being a bad manager, he's decent. But can he really compete with Klopp and Guardiola? Very, very much doubt that. On the other hand, I believe Ten Hag has that potential. I also want to add that for a lot of people here the football Ten Hag plays is much more enjoyable to watch. Spurs were a decent side, nice to watch, but nothing spectacular. But when I watch Ajax, it's like watching a Guardiola team play. The way they just obliterate teams is fascinating to watch, despite Ten Hag not really possessing a "great" set of players. Most of the players he has at the moment you probably haven't even heard of. And if we're to have any chance of going back to the pinnacle of football, that is what we need.


I think Ducker a few months back, when Ole was sacked and there were lots of talks about Poch, Ducker said he believes that the noise is coming from his camp. And Ducker is one of the few that are actual mouthpieces of the lcub, so it wouldn't surprise me if Poch wants to drum up interest for his case.

On your second point Poch has been able to achieve such a style of play and even when poch spurs met eth Ajax, poch spurs came out on top and even won the possession battle. So there is a lot of myth that people put on poch, when in reality he is more tactically flexible than eth, which is what makes a great manager and what we need.

On your fourth point, if things went badly, he would not have gotten a better job each time and broken many accomplishments along the way. He would have went into obscurity and went to a mid table club instead. Now as it stands even before the psg job, many top club wanted him and during the psg job, many top club still wants him, with recently real Madrid, united and Newcastle wanted poch to help turn them into to the next Manchester city, with the billions at their disposal. Things only went bad because it is the nature of football as success is not always guaranteed. City has never won a champion league under pep, so he must be a failure there right? Liverpool under klopp barely made champion league last season, and there is many more events like that. EtH wasn't that impressive at fc Utrecht, and Ajax is the dominant team in the league. So, as you noted he has a small sample. Eth is much more of a risk than poch who has had success in the premier league, ligue 1 and also in the Spanish league. Poch is more of a Ferrari, while eth is a tesla as poch is renkowned and many top players loves his style, while eth is very technical in detail, but his appearance toward what he can do in a tough league is still an unknown. He might crash like their autopilot system or exceed expectations like their upcoming roadster model

 

[Karlos PFC]

So, we shouldn't look long term with our next managerial appointment?

No

Let's face it, if this was 1986, the same arguments against Ten Haag would be levelled at SAF, won a farmers league and did much better in Europe than expected.

Many fans, including me, lost patience with him, but he went on to prove us all wrong, very wrong.

Liverpool had to be patient with Klopp too, don't forget.

Poch would be a safe pair of hands, for a few years. Ten Haag maybe has the potential to build something great.

Not that I don't agree with you but it would be the same if Ten Hag won the league with a smaller team ala Aberdeen, like Vitesse, or Alkmaar or someone else other than Ajax, PSV or Feyenord. And winning a european trophy EL or ChL. So not exactly the same.

Everyone and their cat could see what Klopp was building and his brand of football. You could see it was a case of when and not if they'll win the league.

I'd argue that Poch built something great too at Spurs. After all he went to the final after beating them in the semis.

Ten Hag is a good coach but until he implements his style to the squad we will be looking like the LvG days, lots of sideways and back and forth passing. The crowd will lose patience and won't be shown the same kind of support.

 

[stefan92]

Ten Hag is a good coach but until he implements his style to the squad we will be looking like the LvG days, lots of sideways and back and forth passing. The crowd will lose patience and won't be shown the same kind of support.

He puts much more emphasis on vertical play than LVG did, so I think that risk is quite small.

 

[RkkMan]

He wasn't really. He won the Bundesliga and DFB Pokal, but once Bayern got their act together he couldn't remotely touch them. His squad was just as good as Poch's Spurs one: Lewandowski, Gundogan, Reus, Goetze, Hummels, etc. Reached the CL final only to be beaten by the same Bayern(one of the best sides I've seen in CL).

Really good record, but imploded as soon as they sold most of their players. When he joined Liverpool he was the laughing stock of most of CAF until he signed Van Dijk. Let's not pretend he was Pep reincarnate. He became WC at Liverpool. And to me that is one of the things we have yet to see with Klopp, how does he handle his squad rebuilds. So far he has shown both at Mainz and Dortmund, that not great. Fingers crossed he keeps this tradition going at Pool.

ETH on the other hand had a similar feat with a vastly inferior Ajax team. He used Tadic as CF in that 2019, fecking Soton flop turned prolific goalscoarer Tadic.

But the thing that sold me on him is how he handled his squad rebuild. Can you name any current Ajax star players? Only Gravenberch comes to mind, everyone else is either a PL flop or academy/up and coming youngster. And the fact that you can't name and stand out players simply points to the fact just how well drilled as a unit Ajax is a unit. I haven't seen a small team this well drilled and that is capable of going to toe with the big boys since Mourinho's Porto.

To me this current Ajax side looks way better drilled than the 2019 one, but the lack of star players that can make a difference might cost them in later rounds of the CL where a single moment of magic is often what separates 2 tactically equal teams.

As for Sir Alex and his Scottish managerial stint, let's not pretend that the SPL was some prime league in the world. There is a reason SAF left the SPL midseason for a failing United. While the SPL was a bit better than it was today, it wasn't the same as in the 70's. As such, it was below the pecking order of EPL, which in turn was a good tier lower than the Spanish and Italian leagues at the time. Also his Aberdeen side weren't exactly relegation fodder. At the time they were the 3rd biggest club in the country. SAF just made them overachieve kind of like Klopp did at Dortmund and Mourinho did at Porto.

The manner in which Klopp won trophies in Germany spectacularly trounces anything ETH has done. There was a point BVB were on the verge of bankruptcy and had to operate on a very shoe string budget but Klopp's brilliance kept them afloat up until a point they could compete against a Bayern team that had an overwhelmingly bigger budget and reputation. All of those players you've mentioned thrived under Klopp were made into world class players either as academy players or cheap signings nothing compared to Bayern who were spending big money on Mario Gomez, Robben, Ribery and the likes. ETH has never had to work under such difficulties. While Ajax are a selling club they've always remained the most financially stable and successful club in the Dutch League with a very organized football structure better equipped to handle personnel changes. Klopp's team did decline a bit after all the sales as would most teams plus Bayern with their riches had Pep around the time so it was always going to be tough to repeat heroics but he still did an overwhelmingly better job at BVB than ETH at Ajax. The only reason Klopp was being made fun of is because of the cynical nature our fans have towards Liverpool me and any other fan in real life could see what he was doing and I was not surprised when everything clicked for them in 2018-2020. Maybe he implodes again but he still remains world class for his work. By the way Onana, Daley Blind, Tagliafico, Haller, Antony, Tadic, Mazaroui are amongst the names I've honestly listed off the top of my head that are well known names with some attracting interest from the biggest clubs in Europe he's assembled a solid Ajax team without extravagant sums but they aren't completely unknown players.
On Sir Alex you forgot the point where he had a European Cup to his name proving he could win outside Scotland, beating Real Madrid in the process and while you can question whether the Scottish League was a super league then you can't question that it was of higher quality than the current Dutch League which is the only place ETH has achieved success or the fact that having Aberdeen outperforming the two biggest teams in Scotland at the time is much more impressive than dominating with the richest and most successful team in the Netherlands