Agree on all points.
Ten Hag number 1 and Mancini being a better option that Poch.
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Ten Hag number 1 and Mancini being a better option that Poch.
Having just read the article, Ducker is saying Mancini is one of several candidates that could come into the reckoning.
I'm also doubtful that Mancini will be selected if we want to build upon the high line/high tempo,fast transition play style which Rangnick will attempt to implement in a vertical axis.
Mancini to overrated and had an underwhelming 6 years after he had won the league with City till he got the Italy job.
I feel people are heavily over rating Mancini due to recency bias as he is not all that
Let's take a quick look at his career shall we
Had decent spells at Lazio and fiorentina wining 2 copas along the way landing him the inter job
Took an star studed team to three consecutive scutedos though with a caveat the league was severely weakened due to calciopoli with juve tumbling down to serie b and Millan being on the brink of its financial problems having to offload the likes of Shevchenko
Inter also enjoyed a massive financial boost having landed the likes of zlatan and Figo helping them to glory
His inter side was a very classic Italian side very solid with decent attacking output having the stars required to pull the magic required in big games
His stint at inter was not whiteout its disappointments though being especially lack luster in Europe where at time was where inters aspirations lied which in the end caused inters management to part ways choosing to upgrade to at the time prodigal mourhinio
His next stint was at city where I don't think I have to remind anyone of what happened but basically taking the most duped up team in the lead to a title after a massive meltdown on our part wasting a 12 point lead in Christmas he subsequently went to have a massive meltdown of his own getting rekt in the subsequent title race by our Fergie which caused him falling out with the amir getting the sack
His career from here on now takes a heavy down turn he took a huge downgrade frome European teams to tacking charge of Turkish royalty galata from here on there is a massive title drought winning only a Turkish super cup with gala though gala being by far the best team in turkey he then went back to a downtrodden inter having to rejuvenate their chances and bring down the dominant juve though ultimately failing to leave a dent in the wining machine and not even challenging in the end
He then downgraded even further leaving to lead russias premier team in one dogiest leagues in the world in zenit he then failed to win anything with them while playing tumescent football and falling out with the management once again
His career till this point has been a rather lukewarm on to be generous but then he got the Italy job
Aside from man city to a degree his play style has been very conservative based on solid defending and measures attacking output
People would point out to his Italy side as him being capable of being a positive attacking team and while I agree to a degree with the assumption especially of we consider Italy in the group stages and qualifying campaign i would also point out to the knock out stages where he again came back to playing conservative negative football (just look at the Italy Spain semifinal)
His achievement with Italy has been impressive world cup qualification notwithstanding and there's case to be made that he has reinvented himself especially seeing as how poor Italy were before he came in but there are several points to consider
1 international football isn't a good measure of club success seeing as int competitions being much more backward compared to the club one look no further then van gal
2 he has history of being an abrasive personality almost always falling out wherever he has gone
3 His play style doesn't really look like where we want to go to with Ralf
4 his biggest success has come in leagues where all the other contenders where facing a downturn and he was duped up and on the rise(inter after the scandal and city with their oil money)
Could he work?sure but its far from given
Let's take a quick look at his career shall we
Had decent spells at Lazio and fiorentina wining 2 copas along the way landing him the inter job
Took an star studed team to three consecutive scutedos though with a caveat the league was severely weakened due to calciopoli with juve tumbling down to serie b and Millan being on the brink of its financial problems having to offload the likes of Shevchenko
Inter also enjoyed a massive financial boost having landed the likes of zlatan and Figo helping them to glory
His inter side was a very classic Italian side very solid with decent attacking output having the stars required to pull the magic required in big games
His stint at inter was not whiteout its disappointments though being especially lack luster in Europe where at time was where inters aspirations lied which in the end caused inters management to part ways choosing to upgrade to at the time prodigal mourhinio
His next stint was at city where I don't think I have to remind anyone of what happened but basically taking the most duped up team in the lead to a title after a massive meltdown on our part wasting a 12 point lead in Christmas he subsequently went to have a massive meltdown of his own getting rekt in the subsequent title race by our Fergie which caused him falling out with the amir getting the sack
His career from here on now takes a heavy down turn he took a huge downgrade frome European teams to tacking charge of Turkish royalty galata from here on there is a massive title drought winning only a Turkish super cup with gala though gala being by far the best team in turkey he then went back to a downtrodden inter having to rejuvenate their chances and bring down the dominant juve though ultimately failing to leave a dent in the wining machine and not even challenging in the end
He then downgraded even further leaving to lead russias premier team in one dogiest leagues in the world in zenit he then failed to win anything with them while playing tumescent football and falling out with the management once again
His career till this point has been a rather lukewarm on to be generous but then he got the Italy job
Aside from man city to a degree his play style has been very conservative based on solid defending and measures attacking output
People would point out to his Italy side as him being capable of being a positive attacking team and while I agree to a degree with the assumption especially of we consider Italy in the group stages and qualifying campaign i would also point out to the knock out stages where he again came back to playing conservative negative football (just look at the Italy Spain semifinal)
His achievement with Italy has been impressive world cup qualification notwithstanding and there's case to be made that he has reinvented himself especially seeing as how poor Italy were before he came in but there are several points to consider
1 international football isn't a good measure of club success seeing as int competitions being much more backward compared to the club one look no further then van gal
2 he has history of being an abrasive personality almost always falling out wherever he has gone
3 His play style doesn't really look like where we want to go to with Ralf
4 his biggest success has come in leagues where all the other contenders where facing a downturn and he was duped up and on the rise(inter after the scandal and city with their oil money)
Could he work?sure but its far from given
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It's good if we're at least considering less obvious candidates. Seeing as we got ourselves into this stupid position of having to go from interim interim to interim to manager we may as well make the best of it and put in-depth thought into who we go for next.
Media really drumming up random links because they've got nothing better to do these days.
I'm thinking intermediaries are creating certain scenarios which are then put forth by Journalists.
It reminds me of the time when we hired LVG and were linked to a host of Dutch players. I remember Jordy Clasie being one of the early names mentioned. And it seems like the same is happening with Rangnick who has literally just arrived in the country according to reports.
I think this talk of transfers is very premature.
It reminds me of the time when we hired LVG and were linked to a host of Dutch players. I remember Jordy Clasie being one of the early names mentioned. And it seems like the same is happening with Rangnick who has literally just arrived in the country according to reports.
I think this talk of transfers is very premature.
Great post. I don't get why a lot of our fans would want him. Good coach and all but nothing great imo
Yes
The yellow press would have fun in that case.
I guess his parents dressed in black a lot up till 1945?
He was born in 1970. I doubt his parents even existed in 1945.
I've re-read your post and the years repeatedly and I dont know what you're suggesting
He's saying his parents had him when they were younger than 25 and hence were not born in 1945 yet.
Italy might not even qualify for the World Cup. Finished behind Switzerland and face playing Portugal in the play off finals. Mancini showed he can (with the tightest margin) out-smart Southgate but that is not exactly compelling evidence for the United job.
https://www.thelocal.de/20180820/my-name-isadolf/
Hütter told broadcaster FFH how he feels about his name.
“You can probably imagine that I’m not 100 percent happy with my name,” said the 48-year-old Austrian. “You don’t notice it as a kid, but at some point you begin to get associated with the past.”
Hütter said that his grandmother had convinced his parents to name him Adolf in honour of his uncle, who suffered a fatal accidentin Berlin in 1945 at the age of just 27.
“I suppose I could wish for another name, but my mother called me Adi from day one, and pretty much everybody knows me as Adi.”
Hütter told broadcaster FFH how he feels about his name.
“You can probably imagine that I’m not 100 percent happy with my name,” said the 48-year-old Austrian. “You don’t notice it as a kid, but at some point you begin to get associated with the past.”
Hütter said that his grandmother had convinced his parents to name him Adolf in honour of his uncle, who suffered a fatal accident
“I suppose I could wish for another name, but my mother called me Adi from day one, and pretty much everybody knows me as Adi.”
Excellent post. Mancini is overrated.
I'd take him if Bayern fired him today. People here would make a big deal of that cup exit but don't realise they all run into failures given a long enough time frame. Even Ten Haag will run into his at some point in the future. There's no such thing as a perfect resume.
Mancini? Nah. Just another story to run for some pundit. It's going to be between X Hag and Pouch.
Story of my life mate.
I think people are overestimating Rangnick's influence on who the nextanager will be.
The overall tone has entered that tunnel vision phase where only idealised scenarios are considered. That 'consultant' description isn't exactly assuring.
But also he's being interviewed and hired by the very people he would need to be replacing to have that kind of power. Was never on board Fletcher and Murtough holding those positions in the first place. That's the role I'd have a person like Rangnick filling with those 2 being the consultants on internal affairs.
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He doesn't need to replace the very people who actually hired him (by all accounts) to be influential in the decision making process. They hired him for a purpose and the purpose of hiring him is lost if you then don't follow through with the actual type of football he will attempt to implement.
Trying to implement 6 months of high line/high intensity, fast transition football with a heavy emphasis on verticality between the lines, along with a aggressive high press would be pointless if you then hire someone who doesn't follow through with those ideals.
That's a lot to fill into someone else's thought process. The same regime that renewed Ole in the summer and his staff while we were in freefall. Even insisting said staff to carry on with Rangnick. What part of that process shows you a pattern you're confident enough to predict. They clearly have their own interpretation of long term oriented decision making.
They renewed Ole after he'd guided United to second in the league. I could see why the club renewed his contract at the time.
I'm not sure they were insistent on Rangnick taking the previous manager's coaching staff. But it's intelligent of a incoming interim to tap into the existing coaching staffs knowledge, which can be advantageous for himself when there's many things he's oblivious to, which includes not knowing the players.
Its also reported that Rangnick will run the rule over Carrick and McKenna regarding their suitability for their current roles. And also bring his own (one or two) people to help him transition from Ole's play style to his own.
I feel like both Poch and Rodger have hit their ceiling. So if United' going for hipster route now, the board should not half ass about it.
I don't mind keeping 1 or 2 guys to help bed in the new manager but we didn't need to force the whole damn lot on him. Harsh reality is Murtough and Fletcher's decision to renew them made it too costly to dismiss them 3 weeks into their contracts..
About Ole you don't just renew a manager for past performances, you renew him on the basis of future expectations. It's not like he worked for free during the 20/21 season to justify 'rewarding' him with a new deal. Renewing Ole when we did was an idiotic move and it would be ridiculous for the club to try and justify it after the very likely worst case scenario everyone on this forum warned about just transpired in front of our very eyes.
We all bloody knew that renewal was unnecessary and it didn't take up to a quarter of a season that it backfired spectacularly. Gee Mr Murtough Who would have thought? Should have taken the payoff out of his paycheck.
So Potter or Gallardo? I reckon Gallardo would be the most hipster choice given he's only managed in Argentina, and he has that aura of mystique that only a manager that hasn't been seen in the Champions League or the premier league yet can have.
You know how we get linked to 100 players every season, well its not too much to suggest this is exactly the same with the managers. RR will have someone similar to his philosophy, so Mancini Pochettino etc will all be red herrings.
Murtough and Fletcher didn't renew him at all and it was in fact a decision from the board which is how these things traditionally happen at a club, led by a manager model. Murtough and Fletcher never had the authority over Ole hence Solskjaer being the manager and not the head coach, which should be understood.
Keeping the whole lot can be important for a incoming interim because you have some who coach the first phase of the build up (Hartis and Pert) and others who coach the offensive and defensive transitions, depending on how much risk the manager wants to take in a mid block or high line. So it's sensible for Rangnick to understand what methods of coaching that have been undertaken in different phases of play and the feedback directly from those involved will help him.
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Not sure about that, It's one thing to say Murtough wasn't the only one involved in renewing Ole but it's another to say he played no part in it. He's a director of football, they didn't do it without him. Is that even possible? It's also his name plastered in our transfer articles, he was the one who did the communication with Rangnick prior to signing. He chose and hired Rangnick. He signs players and managers but somehow wasn't involved in the Ole renewal? that's highly unlikely don't you think?
Also keeping the entire backroom staff of a sacked manager is unheard of. Do other clubs even do this? A new manager definitely doesn't need every single one of them. He should have been given the freedom to decide who gets to stay. The club shouldn't bloat his technical team with dead weight. Three is too much. It's not like he isn't bringing his own assistant and trainers. They might just end up glorified ballboys. They have no prior chemistry working with this manager. Expect an awkward sight during matches with Rangnick consulting with his own staff while those 3 are sat at the edge of the bench with little to do but getting subs ready.
I think you failed to understand my previous post, so let me explain in a bit more detail below.
Murtough was appointed football director in March this year when we had a manager already in his role making the big football related decisions at the club, which is what we've traditionally done. Murtough as the football director did not have the authority over Solskjaer who was the manager at the time. You need to understand the difference between a manager and a head coach. And once the manager was sacked, Murtough became the most powerful person on the football side of the club hence he made the decision to bring in Rangnick as Interim, according to reports.
And of course he's involved in signing players that have been selected by the first team manager at the club. But his influence has been far greater at youth level than the first team.
Do you really think Rangnick is gonna bring with him a full quota of coaches who are likely in long term roles at other clubs to come to United for 6 months? If he brings a couple in, that'll be more than adequate for 6 months.
We're talking mid-season sackings here, and yes other clubs have sacked managers mid-season and kept the back room staff, which supported the outgoing head coach. And Bayern has done just that by firing coaches and retaining the likes of Flick and Gerland.
I'm sure many of you would've fired Flick and Gerland.
Get away from Mancini and Poch rumours and lets have more Amorim and Rose rumours.
I think Mcarrick should be gone as well but it does make some sense to keep them around till the summer. Otherwise we risk having three separate coaching staff across one year ( oles, Ralfs and the new managers)
Keep then around with one or two guys from Ralfs team then have a proper reshuffle once the new boss comes in. I think they'll do much better with competent supervision.
This I agree with.
Mancini over Poch would be a joke. No thanks, hardddd pass. Poch or Ten Hag for me, otherwise just let RR keep going if he does well.
Are you getting any of this from somewhere or is this just what you hope happened. Because a DoF having no say on extending the manager is not a natural state of affairs one can just assume from the outside. You're describing a demarcation of powers so specific one would have to read his actual contract to deduce. So Murtough only got full directorial powers conferred once Ole got sacked. How do you know this? So when he was making quotes in the media backing Ole about our long term direction he had no influence on Ole's employment? He was just talking for show? He was referring to powers and decisions he had no involvement with?
Is it really easier to go through all of this than to admit the guy hired by the CEO to be the highest football position in the club making the highest football decisions was part of the decision making process that got Ole's contract renewed? The guy who extended the contract of every other staff member had no hand in the manager's extension because of a role technicality no one knew. Yet he somehow had the power to decide on everything else related to the club. Okay, whatever you say. Thumbs up and carry on.
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I'm getting this from having a understanding of how the DoF model works, and it doesn't work if there's a manager that already predates you in your role hence a few of us said when he (Murtough) was appointed that he will only assume full control when Solskjaer is gone. It's also why I quite clearly stated on this forum that it's now that he will be judged at first team level because Solskjaer is no longer there.
Who stays, goes, gets contracts etc is decided by the board and the first team manager. There's no such thing as having a first team manager and a DoF in tandem in football from my observation. Ole also had his own personal scout at the club (Simon Wells) who was on the club's books but reported directly to Solskjaer and not Murtough according to The Athletic.
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