next labour leader

[Ubik]

With spin-skills like that I'm not surprised you're gutted about the Blairites getting annihilated.

The policies you mention aren't socialism. Socialism is generally slightly more ambitious than simply curbing the worst excesses of an unfair economic system, it's about creating an economic system where those excesses don't exist. I'm not saying they were bad policies by any means - as you say, they did a lot of good - but you can't seriously say they were socialist policies. If you brought Disraeli into 2001 he'd recognise New Labour's welfare policy as a slightly sexed up version of classic one nation conservatism, but to some in the Labour Party it's socialism

And I didn't say his NATO thing was inclusive - I simply gave it as an example of how he's not the set-in-stone ideologue straw man the right of the party and the press are trying to paint him as.

Well I'm gutted that the Tories are going to find it so easy to increase their majority at the next election mainly, but you can believe that I've got green scales and razor teeth if you really want to, along with all my other war-criminal buddies.

If those weren't examples of his inclusive leadership style then I'm still interested in hearing some, given that the original point you made was that he is much better at that sort of thing than Blair. I can't imagine him budging on economic matters, on foreign intervention or on public services, which limits the scope for him to deliver on this somewhat. Would he agree to maintain some sort of nuclear deterrent for instance if enough people in the party thought it best for instance?

 

[DOTA]

Well I'm gutted that the Tories are going to find it so easy to increase their majority at the next election mainly, but you can believe that I've got green scales and razor teeth if you really want to, along with all my other war-criminal buddies.

You're thinking Corbyn will survive until the 2020?

 

[Ubik]

You're thinking Corbyn will survive until the 2020?

Given the size of his victory and the likelihood he'll have a honeymoon period, he could make it a few years at least, by which time the damage is done. Simply being behind in the polls probably won't be enough to turn the membership against him, particularly given the lack of convincing contenders in the party right now.

 

[DOTA]

Given the size of his victory and the likelihood he'll have a honeymoon period, he could make it a few years at least, by which time the damage is done. Simply being behind in the polls probably won't be enough to turn the membership against him, particularly given the lack of convincing contenders in the party right now.

David, Jarvis and Chuka aren't sufficient options for a centrist return?

 

[Ubik]

David, Jarvis and Chuka aren't sufficient options for a centrist return?

In terms of mounting the putsch, probably not. Labour are always laughably bad at doing it, and there would need to be clear signals from the membership they wanted him gone. Miliband screwed it up once before (would he even get selected for a seat to return any more?) and Umunna wouldn't be much better at it. Jarvis is more of an unknown quantity I suppose but he'd have to work on raising his profile a lot in the meantime, and it's hard to do that if you aren't a front-bencher - will he serve? The shadow cabinet will be interesting in that respect. Either way, I'd imagine it's years away.

 

[DOTA]

In terms of mounting the putsch, probably not. Labour are always laughably bad at doing it, and there would need to be clear signals from the membership they wanted him gone. Miliband screwed it up once before (would he even get selected for a seat to return any more?) and Umunna wouldn't be much better at it. Jarvis is more of an unknown quantity I suppose but he'd have to work on raising his profile a lot in the meantime, and it's hard to do that if you aren't a front-bencher - will he serve? The shadow cabinet will be interesting in that respect. Either way, I'd imagine it's years away.

All fair points.

It is entirely possible it will go spectacularly tits up within the next 18 months, though, and there will be no option but to find someone to step in.

 

[sun_tzu]

All fair points.

It is entirely possible it will go spectacularly tits up within the next 18 months, though, and there will be no option but to find someone to step in.

Local elections
Eu referendum
If labour don't see their popularity rise over the 18 months he will be gone (or the party will split)

 

[Ubik]

All fair points.

It is entirely possible it will go spectacularly tits up within the next 18 months, though, and there will be no option but to find someone to step in.

Entirely true, and predictions tend to get pissed up the walls these days. He'd have to do something pretty outrageous though to lose such a mandate that quickly though, to my mind. But yeah, it's possible that for many euphoria quickly fades.

 

[DOTA]

Entirely true, and predictions tend to get pissed up the walls these days. He'd have to do something pretty outrageous though to lose such a mandate that quickly though, to my mind. But yeah, it's possible that for many euphoria quickly fades.

Out of curiosity, were he by some miracle to prove incredibly popular and electable, would this be a great thing to you - or would you still have preferred more centred politics? I honestly have no idea as to how much your concern at his victory is because you feel he's electoral suicide and how much is because you think his ideas are terrible.

 

[Untied]

Congrats to corbyn
I certainly won't be voting labour under his leadership and I suspect it's going to be a disaster for the party... But it's a disaster the party's picked and that has to be respected
Trident
Public services strike rules
Strikes against ISIS in Syria
I suspect the tories are looking forward to the public perception of a Corbyn leadership if that's the top three things on their agenda

If Cameron manages to make that play well politically he truly is living a charmed life given he wanted to launch strikes against Assad 2 years ago

 

[sun_tzu]

I can't take credit for it but I think the best summing up I have seen is:

An act of political stupidity unrivalled since calligula appointed his horse to rule rome

 

[Penna]

I'm delighted he's won, we'll have a real difference between the main parties again. I voted for Watson, too. Can't wait to see what will happen next.

 

[Ubik]

Out of curiosity, were he by some miracle to prove incredibly popular and electable, would this be a great thing to you - or would you still have preferred more centred politics? I honestly have no idea as to how much your concern at his victory is because you feel he's electoral suicide and how much is because you think his ideas are terrible.

I think he's electoral suicide and think some of his ideas are terrible. I'm a republican that doesn't feel we have much need for nuclear weapons, I believe in a strong welfare state and well funded public services, think the rich should contribute more and that capitalism takes the utter piss far too much of the time, but I'm also not a pacifist, don't agree that you can just say you'll fund things by printing money and collecting pluck-a-number-out-of-your-arse in unpaid taxes, am not a fan of his equivocating over the EU, think some of the previously discussed ideas about reopening coal mines and women-only train carriages have no place in the 21st century, I don't have a great deal of faith in his judgement and think the idea of the most rebellious MP of the last few decades bringing unity to the party borders on the absurd. So you could say it's mixed. And the parts of his programme that I do support will get ever more distant due to the complete lack of electability damaging Labour's prospects even after he leaves, which aggravates me still further.

 

[sun_tzu]

If Cameron manages to make that play well politically he truly is living a charmed life given he wanted to launch strikes against Assad 2 years ago

I want to bomb people who use chemical weapons and Mr corbyn does not.
I want to bomb people who use beheadings rapes and barrel bombs and Mr corbyn wants to negotiate with them
I stand against terrorism be that by ISIS or assad and Mr corbyn stands in the way of taking the fight to them
Yeah I'd say that's a pretty easy sell actually

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

An act of political stupidity unrivalled since calligula appointed his horse to rule rome

Well, the latter never happened so I'll take that as a good omen.

 

[Untied]

I want to bomb people who use chemical weapons and Mr corbyn does not.
I want to bomb people who use beheadings rapes and barrel bombs and Mr corbyn wants to negotiate with them
I stand against terrorism be that by ISIS or assad and Mr corbyn stands in the way of taking the fight to them
Yeah I'd say that's a pretty easy sell actually

That's one way of spinning it

I want to bomb people we sell weapons to.
I want to bomb people fighting the people I used to want us to bomb who we have also provided weapons to.

 

[soap]

Congrats to corbyn
I certainly won't be voting labour under his leadership and I suspect it's going to be a disaster for the party... But it's a disaster the party's picked and that has to be respected
Trident
Public services strike rules
Strikes against ISIS in Syria
I suspect the tories are looking forward to the public perception of a Corbyn leadership if that's the top three things on their agenda

Who will you be voting for, if anyone?

 

[lynchie]

That's one way of spinning it

I want to bomb people we sell weapons to.
I want to bomb people fighting the people I used to want us to bomb who we have also provided weapons to.

I'm not sure the paper trail is forefront in the minds of those fleeing for their lives.

 

[Adebesi]

I wonder if he'll end up being dragged towards the centre, in the way others like Hollande and Tspiras have. I guess itll be easier to hold his ground as leader of the opposition than it would be if he ever became leader.

 

[Member 55443]

85% of the £3 voters backed Corbyn, but the near 60% landslide surely makes it very tough for the party to stick the knife in and replace Corbyn in the near future - they'll have to stick with him for long while yet.

Also the Labour "grandees" that went against Corbyn so publicly have firmly had their opinion and position shutdown by the party electorate - exciting times to say the very least.

By far the most important and interesting thing about this. The reality check labour sorely needed.

Absolutely. It was pretty sickening watching them all queueing up to speak on Sky News to try and make out like they'd been supporting him the whole time. He'd do well to clear these weasels out of the party, they're exactly the kind of slippery politicians that people have come to despise.

 

[Will Absolute]

I can't take credit for it but I think the best summing up I have seen is:

An act of political stupidity unrivalled since calligula appointed his horse to rule rome

That horse was too far to the left. The Roman people were never going to support him

 

[SteveJ]

Look at The Sun's image of JC.

http://suttonnick.tumblr.com/

 

[Kaos]

I find it amusing how these Blairite front-benchers have 'resigned' in response to Corbyn's victory. They were never selected by him for them to even resign

 

[sun_tzu]

Who will you be voting for, if anyone?

Local election libs
European referendum - stay
2020... I hope a more centrist and sensible labour party (probably lead by jarvis by then)
But failing that libs or conservatives (subject to libs economic policy's ref businesses)

I run a small / medium business in the uk and 16 people and families depend on me making it work... I'm proud that we are set up in an area of economic hardship and as a very specialist company I don't pay one of my employees under 35k (over 45 with overtime or bonus)... Under a Corbyn lead government based an what has been said so far I'd sack half and them (which would be devastating) but I would take no new work and when I had seen out existing contracts I'd set up on mainland Europe or move back to Asia and set up there... His policies would kill the economy imo

 

[berbatrick]

Spoiler

 

[noodlehair]

This episode has just highlighted how stubbornly out of touch from reality many politicians (and some people!) are.

It was 100% obvious in the current cllimate that further left leaning politics would apppeal to a lot of people who feel the system does not represent or look after them (which it doesn't). I mean as obvious as figuring out that it might rain if there's a rain cloud overhead. Even if it wasn't completely obvious (which it was), the SNP then slapped everyone in the face with how obvious it was at the elections.

Yet Labour on the whole were stilll actually trying to tell people that this isn't what they want, and have then acted completely baffled by Corbyn becoming popular, as if it's come completely out of the blue. It's like standing on a train track while the traiin is approaching, and being genuinely baffled as to why other people don't think it's a good idea to stand on the tracks with you. Then still somehow continuing to not understand why people have no confidence in whether you know what you're doing.

Everything that's happpened with Corbyn has been completely obvious. The way to combat it would have been to offer a viable left alternative...not just continue ignoring the real world and expecting it to listen to you anyway.

Spoiler

TBH all of that would be worth it if rids the world of Daily Mail readers.

 

[Drifter]

Spoiler

Surprised that any Daily Mail readers actually leave their house .With all the doom and gloom this paper spouts.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I run a small / medium business in the uk and 16 people and families depend on me making it work... I'm proud that we are set up in an area of economic hardship and as a very specialist company I don't pay one of my employees under 35k (over 45 with overtime or bonus)... Under a Corbyn lead government based an what has been said so far I'd sack half and them (which would be devastating) but I would take no new work and when I had seen out existing contracts I'd set up on mainland Europe or move back to Asia and set up there... His policies would kill the economy imo

Completely out of interest, which policies of Corbyn's do you think would force you to make half your workforce redundant?

If they're all on over 35k any rise in minimum wage shouldn't affect you, as a smaller company you wont be affected by his proposed rise in corporation tax, rent controls for office space could reduce your costs (although perhaps not if you're in a worse-off area where rents are already low) and you could benefit from his proposed government grants for small businesses (especially if you're in a worse-off area).

His policies regarding business are about redressing the balance so businesses like yours have a better chance to compete with the multinationals. I don't see how any of what he's said would force you to downsize or move abroad.

 

[sun_tzu]

Completely out of interest, which policies of Corbyn's do you think would force you to make half your workforce redundant?

.

Inflation... It will kill the economy...We fix contracts for up to five years... I dont have the fat to trim for large inflation related pay rises
I wouldn't take the personal risk of tendering in what I believe would be a high inflation and high risk scenario.
Cancelling hs2
Cancelling nuclear builds
Renationalising the railways and messing up the existing frameworks

Putting up my personal tax as I can base myself in tax regimes that are far better for me

 

[711]

That horse was too far to the left. The Roman people were never going to support him

Not at all, Red Rum conclusively proved a left wing scouse horse can be popular.

 

[B20]

Great to see. Imagine a world where Corbyn and Sanders are leaders in the UK and US?

 

[The Mitcher]

Happy for him, and hope he can prove the doubters wrong. Labour have needed a non-corporatist candidate for years.

 

[Red Dreams]

Great to see. Imagine a world where Corbyn and Sanders are leaders in the UK and US?

It can happen.

 

[Sweet Square]

Great to see. Imagine a world where Corbyn and Sanders are leaders in the UK and US?

 

[Shamwow]

 

[jeff_goldblum]

Inflation... It will kill the economy...We fix contracts for up to five years... I dont have the fat to trim for large inflation related pay rises
I wouldn't take the personal risk of tendering in what I believe would be a high inflation and high risk scenario.
Cancelling hs2
Cancelling nuclear builds
Renationalising the railways and messing up the existing frameworks

Putting up my personal tax as I can base myself in tax regimes that are far better for me

I assume your worry about inflation is because of the quantitative easing idea? The Americans have been doing the same thing for years - printing money to subsidise housing finance and get people owning their own homes. As Robert Peston has said, even in the worst case scenario we are talking very minor inflation, and, as long as the money goes towards projects which the private sector wouldn't otherwise make there's not really any risk.

HS2 is going to be great for London and Birmingham and those who wish to travel between them but any benefit to the rest of the country will be the same-old 'trickle down' nonsense. My region has suffered chronic underinvestment in infrastructure for decades and as a consequence we're one of the poorest areas in Northern Europe. Funding yet-another London-centric infrastructure project (the 'Northern' (i.e - up to Leeds) phase of the project wont be completed until 2033) instead of boosting worse-off regions is very agenda-driven spending.

By your last statement I assume then you earn over £150,000? The top rate of tax is going up 5% and will only affect the highest 1% of earners. It's the same rate of income tax the Tories brought in in 2010, and clearly you didn't leave the country at that point. Hell the lowest it ever got under Thatcher was 40%.

 

[sun_tzu]

I assume your worry about inflation is because of the quantitative easing idea? The Americans have been doing the same thing for years - printing money to subsidise housing finance and get people owning their own homes. As Robert Peston has said, even in the worst case scenario we are talking very minor inflation, and, as long as the money goes towards projects which the private sector wouldn't otherwise make there's not really any risk.

HS2 is going to be great for London and Birmingham and those who wish to travel between them but any benefit to the rest of the country will be the same-old 'trickle down' nonsense. My region has suffered chronic underinvestment in infrastructure for decades and as a consequence we're one of the poorest areas in Northern Europe. Funding yet-another London-centric infrastructure project (the 'Northern' (i.e - up to Leeds) phase of the project wont be completed until 2033) instead of boosting worse-off regions is very agenda-driven spending.

By your last statement I assume then you earn over £150,000? The top rate of tax is going up 5% and will only affect the highest 1% of earners. It's the same rate of income tax the Tories brought in in 2010, and clearly you didn't leave the country at that point. Hell the lowest it ever got under Thatcher was 40%.

Jg... Thanks for the economics lesson and business advice but with all due respect I think I understand the macroeconomic drivers of my business and individual financial implications for myself a little better than you do.
Quoting a journalist such as Robert Peston and indeed alluding the Fed qe is a direct comparable to the potential "people's qe" is either disingenuous or naive and frankly it's of irrelevance to myself which it is.
I'd just point out as well I was not a UK resident in 2010 so yes I didn't leave the UK you are at least right about that

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Did any of you listen to Fivlive's Labour debate last night? It was very revealing, the panellists included: Owen Jones, Emily Thornberry, and John McTernan.

Thornberry had a bit of a shocker in my view, although i hear that a job in Corbyn's shadow cabinet beckons.

You can listen to the programme here :: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b068hhjs

My region has suffered chronic underinvestment in infrastructure for decades and as a consequence we're one of the poorest areas in Northern Europe. Funding yet-another London-centric infrastructure project (the 'Northern' (i.e - up to Leeds) phase of the project wont be completed until 2033) instead of boosting worse-off regions is very agenda-driven spending.

What has Corbyn actually suggested to remedy this problem, in terms of specifics?

I'd have thought it a far better use of government spending than ideologically driven renationalisation projects, for instance.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I find it amusing how these Blairite front-benchers have 'resigned' in response to Corbyn's victory. They were never selected by him for them to even resign

He won't do it but I think the correct response for them would be to remove the whip and tell them they're out on their arses.

They're clearly out of touch with the wishes of the electorate and they're clearly out of touch with the new labour party. They're Labour MPs in name only.

 

[Sweet Square]

Did any of you listen to Fivlive's Labour debate last night? It was very revealing, the panellists included: Owen Jones, Emily Thornberry, and John McTernan.

Thornberry had a bit of a shocker in my view, although i hear that a job in Corbyn's shadow cabinet beckons.

You can listen to the programme here :: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b068hhjs

Yeah some of the audience members had a shocker(Some people had no idea why they liked Corbyn and one lady simply said she wanted a female leader and dropped the mic)although I think that's almost natural and problem with these shows as people natural freeze up when asked a serious question on public radio. The fear of sounding stupid makes them say stupid things.

As for Thornberry I thought she did ok(Her point on the Trident question was well put across), most of the time with these programs your lucky just to get a word in. Mcternan was the best though well not in the good way but more of ''Yes I am this much of a bastard'' was great to listen to(Although I disagree with everything he said). Overall I think it's worth a listen to but I did prefer the bits after the debate with Billy Bragg and Steven Pienaar.