The issue isn't that Labour need policies that are dramatically more centrist imo but rather they need to end the alienating anti-centrist rhetoric that has been the hallmark of the Corbyn era. The division in the Labour party has to end and if the left wing still holds sway then that means the onus is on them. If momentum can't admit and learn from their horrendous mistakes then they will girft the Tories a fifth GE win in a row.
Next Labour leader - Starmer and Rayner win
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The issue isn't that Labour need policies that are dramatically more centrist imo but rather they need to end the alienating anti-centrist rhetoric that has been the hallmark of the Corbyn era. The division in the Labour party has to end and if the left wing still holds sway then that means the onus is on them. If momentum can't admit and learn from their horrendous mistakes then they will girft the Tories a fifth GE win in a row.
They can win with broadly leftist policies but I think they've got to learn to package them in an entirely different way. Certainly someone with Corbyn's baggage is extremely unlikely to win an election at this point.
There needs to be compromise on both sides, there are positives with left wing policies that can hopefully be integrated with centrist policies. We actually need left wing policies to make any meaningful headway against climate change. There's no point pointing fingers at each other, rather a collaborative approach is required.
Agree.
Yep.
But since they have already been pointing fingers at each other, and everything but themselves, I don't hold out much hope.
Also, didn't go to private school. Has working class parents. Had a respectable job before politics(but not in banking, finance, pharma or fossil fuels). Has an impeccable voting record with cabinet experience. Has never read Marx, but can speak at length, without hesitation or repetition, on everything wrong with Marxism. Has never criticised Isreal. Has never been caught lying. Has never expressed friendship with anyone, but with a good background in diplomacy. Has never said anything racist, also has never said anything in support of immigration.
Probably best if he/she isn't from London either. Or Scotland.
It doesn't matter what you say when institutions like the BBC are willing to doctor footage to keep you out. The truth no longer matters, the media runs the show.
What about when they are live in front of the cameras though?
What about when you too scared to appear live in front of the cameras though?
Burgon seems to be running, which is fecking grim.
God, I hate to use that what....... more than once in a day
Who cares about that clown? He didn't need to bother, he was winning and he won. This is bigger than that, more than that. And it's about fecking time people realised that.
Don’t necessarily disagree with much of this, but there’s a lot more to be said on top of it. Since I’ve already largely said it elsewhere, let’s move on.
He’s Ben Swain.
Yes and basically whatever the ehrc report says... Accept it and implement it
Yep.
No remainer, or Londoner, can be their next leader, which rules out Starmer and Emily. Their only Scottish MP, or some Northern MP, might be better demographically. But they really need a caretaker leader while they do a proper analysis and reflection for a year or two, and then have a real leadership election, just as a football team has a caretaker role. But that role shouldn't be Corbyn.
That must be a parody... Nobody can seriously back him can they...
Why would having been a remainer matter? Remain is now stone cold dead as a political position, so that division should be lessened politically. Whether any given Labour leader was a remainer or Brexiteer, they'll be able to criticise the Tory-made Brexit regardless along with the rest of their party.
99% sure it's satire. Maybe 98.
Yeah, fully agree. The messaging was really disappointing this campaign. The policies were not presented coherently, instead the strategy seemed to be vomit it all out at once and hope that there'd be something in there for everyone to latch on to. Even as someone who agreed with the vast bulk of it I struggled to become especially endeared to the proposals. They definitely lacked a flagship policy and an overarching message/slogan. Felt too much like a reheated, chaotic and underwhelming branding of what they did two years prior. We all know the scrutiny that the media and commentators are going to apply to any left-wing spending plans so it's essential Labour deprive them of as much ammunition as possible.
Yes, certainly the often blunt response to centrist/Blairite voices by many on the left needs to be tempered. Right now it is imperative that the division is bridged as much as possible. But let's not pretend that this was one way problem. Unprecedented hostility from within its own ranks has also been a hallmark of the Corbyn era for Labour. There were numerous MPs who never gave him a chance. The likes of Ian Austin showed their true colours by ultimately endorsing Johnson. It's unforgivable that anyone who claims to represent (or have represented) Labour's values can openly advocate voting for the Tories, especially in its present incarnation. I cannot comment from a position that is not clouded with bias but I sincerely feel that the divisive rhetoric and self-sabotage has stemmed from the centre's unwillingness to give Corbyn a chance more than it has from the left refusing to engage with the centre. Regardless, both have their own demons to exorcise if we are to move forward from here.
Where someone's an MP for shouldn't really matter. Ability to communicate a good idea of where to move the party is way more important.
It definitely isn't a one way problem (and it goes without saying that any Labour representative who supported the Tories is beneath contempt) but the reality is that a) the onus is on the ruling power within the party to bring the others along and b) the longstanding centrist complaint that Corbyn was unelectable has been proven entirely correct. He was every bit the disaster they feared he would be and those on the left of the party who defended him past the point of reason need to realise that they contributed to this Tory victory.
Given the left led the party to this disaster and given they will continue to hold sway within the party, they're the ones who most drastically need to re-evaluate themselves. If they don't compromise and change tact then nothing anyone else does matters. As it happens, I don't think that compromise primarily relates to their policies.
At the moment it looks like it will take one hell of a politician to unite the two factions though. They seem to be as divided as ever.
It's all well and good saying the onus is on the left but there are those in the centre who have no appetite to be 'brought along' under any circumstances and should Corbyn's successor be cut from an even remotely similar cloth then I'll anticipate a similar response by many. The trouble is too many in the centre are bizarrely using last night's surge of support for the Tories/loss of Labour votes among working class voters in the most deprived regions as evidence that a figure from the centre championing centrist policies is the only solution. We need introspection on both sides as this was a defeat for the left but not one that vindicated the centrist critiques. I'm all for listening about the failures of the left and trying to remedy them and facilitate a compromise but if I have to read one more time about how "if only David Miliband had won the leadership we'd never even have had Brexit" I'm going to breakdown.
As for a figure to unite the two Starmer remains the most plausible option. As someone on the left I would be more than happy to support him, and that is in spite of my belief that privately Starmer is likely far more critical of Corbyn/Corbynism than he lets on publicly. My main doubts are whether he's the right figure to appeal to the North/Midlands/Yorkshire, his lack of charisma and the suspicion with which many on the left would view him could be problematic. I'm struggling to name anyone else though. I liked Pidcock but she's gone and could very likely have been a divisive choice given her proximity to Corbyn.
Who's actually said a figure from the center championing centrist policies?
I'm just curious, I've not seen anyone say that I'd be interested in why they think that.
Is Rayner's background something which can be attacked? I think it's admirable how she came from unwed, pregnant school-leaver at 16 to labour leadership contender.
There several issues with the anti semitism. First, it made labours claims to moral authority ring hollow. Second, it made Corbyn look weak as a leader - he couldn’t put the issue to bed. Third, it reminded people of Corbyns past associations with some very unsavoury people. Forth, it was yet another example of previously core parts of the old labour coalition being let go. So the overall effect was significant I think. It was more than “who’s more racist the labour or Tories.” I think the corbynites lost sight of this.
Of course it's admirable. A few people on the forum have said it will go against her but they're individuals totally out of step with the times for me. Good luck to her.
Back Burgon Bacon.
Look at AOC. It took Republicans about 5 seconds to start framing it as 'experienced senator with 5 years tenures opinion vs random young barmaids'
Thought this too
Jesus God what a thought. No way she's got what it takes to be leader. The thought of her addressing PMQs or representing the party on the politics programmes is mind-blowing.
I see the Tories have been changing up their Twitter again.
I can already see the video of his anti-semitic rant being played on repeat coupled with his interview where he denied saying it - there is a video for god's sake!
The country just voted for the party that's been deporting black people. Do you genuinely think they're going to vote in a black prime minister?What about David Lammy?
Or are we not ready?
Owen Jones meets Angela Rayner
Owen Jones meets Keir Starmer
Owen Jones meets Rebecca Long-Bailey
Owen Jones meets Jess Phillips
Owen Jones meets Keir Starmer
Owen Jones meets Rebecca Long-Bailey
Owen Jones meets Jess Phillips
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