Next Labour leader - Starmer and Rayner win

Sweet Square said:
Did you expect anything else ?

Its a leadership race, theres going to be infighting(Also the general public don't care about this).
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No, because the two camps set their stalls out very early.

There's plenty of room for a robust exchange of views about the direction of the party without it degenerating into some of the ridiculously petty shite we've all seen both on here and Twitter from the centrists and the Corbynites alike.
 
Hammerfell said:


I'm not sure about that, Rebecca.
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RLB presumably has a huge amount of support from die-hard Corbynistas as is so surely the smart move at this juncture would be to distance herself somewhat from the record-breakingly unpopular and unelectable leader? An acknowledgment that Corbyn made at least some mistakes would seem like a more reasonable way of uniting the party.
 
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Surely that's gonna effect her leadership bid?
 
NinjaFletch said:
No, because the two camps set their stalls out very early.

There's plenty of room for a robust exchange of views about the direction of the party without it degenerating into some of the ridiculously petty shite we've all seen both on here and Twitter from the centrists and the Corbynites alike.
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But there's not(Unless you've got some examples ?).

Centrists and the labour left have opposing political views, they both have vastly different ideas for Britain. Robust debate is only possible when there is at least some consensus, which there's isn't in this case. There can't be any debate on climate change for example, when one side puts forward a mass Green state project and the other side thinks Labour planting 2 billions trees was the stuff of fairytales. And really this difference in views and reality(At this point if your not for mass state intervention and huge changes to the British economy, then you're no better than the people who are denying climate change its even happening)between centrist and the labour left comes down to both groups have a been effected by different political crisis points and as a result have come up with their own common sense.

Centrist(Who are mostly all Generation X)

  • Crisis Point - Fall Of The Soviet Union and 9/11

  • Common Sense - Socialism is impossible, the only game in town until the end of time is neoliberalism. So to win power and make gains for working people Labour has to accept the rules and logic of neoliberalism, give power over to ''smart'' technocrats and hope for small improvements to the system. 9/11 basically turned centrists into raging authoritarian state neo cons, who won't to play wack a mole but with counties in the middle east(Explains why they are so defensive when it come to the Iraq War and have a constant distrust of the public - ''Corbyn Cult'', Leave voters are morons etc).

Left/Democratic Socialists(Mostly millennials and younger generations)

  • Crisis Point - Crash Of 08 and Climate Change

  • Common Sense - Neoliberalism has been a utter failure, it offers no worthwhile future and is incapable of tackling climate change. There needs to be mass change and that change needs to be ''Democratic Socialism''(Sadly Democratic Socialism is for the most part social democracy/Capitalism with a human face).
These views are ingrained in people lived experience, it can't be change by debating.


Plus the idea of the Labour Party being broad church of ideas, was always a myth. Its political party full of different parts of the labour movement that are constantly fighting each other in the hope of making gains. What we are seeing today isn't particularly new.
 
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Hammerfell said:


I'm not sure about that, Rebecca.
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Probably not helpful for her own challenge in all honesty. Might keep some supporters onside, but too slavish a devotion to Corbyn and she can easily be painted as someone in denial about the scale of the challenge ahead.
 
Adisa said:
Thanks. I am rooting for Starmer.
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Aye, he’s not perfect by any means but then neither of the candidates are. RLB has already shown how awful she’d be. And I know some like Philips on here (I do as a backbench MP), but I think she would be a terrible party leader.

Whoever wins is very much unlikely to win in 2024 due to the scale of Labour’s defeat last month, so it’s about modernising and reforming the party back to being an electable party once more.

If it ends up being RLB/Burgon then the party is finished.
 
esmufc07 said:
Aye, he’s not perfect by any means but then neither of the candidates are. RLB has already shown how awful she’d be. And I know some like Philips on here (I do as a backbench MP), but I think she would be a terrible party leader.

Whoever wins is very much unlikely to win in 2024 due to the scale of Labour’s defeat last month, so it’s about modernising and reforming the party back to being an electable party once more.

If it ends up being RLB/Burgon then the party is finished.
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Unless, the country turns into a complete clusterfeck, I can't see a Labour victory or even a hung parliament.
Starmer imo, has enough credibility to carry both sides of the party. Although, I have seen some blame him for Labour's defeat.
 
It's amazing that after 2 election defeats - the last, an absolute caning - some people are holding on to the notion that the electorate got it wrong.

They cling to a belief that inside every UK neoliberal there is a social democrat trying to escape - whereas the opposite is probably more accurate.
 


With McDonnell and now Abbot both backing Richard Burgon over Angela Raynor for deputy, looks like the Corbyn loyalists are rallying around Burgon as the true left candidate. And if Corbyn's loyalists in Parliament are backing Burgon, there's a decent chance Momentum will do as well, in which case he'd be favourite to succeed.
 
EwanI Ted said:


With McDonnell and now Abbot both backing Richard Burgon over Angela Raynor for deputy, looks like the Corbyn loyalists are rallying around Burgon as the true left candidate. And if Corbyn's loyalists in Parliament are backing Burgon, there's a decent chance Momentum will do as well, in which case he'd be favourite to succeed.
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I find it impossible to understand what anyone see's in Richard Burgon, other than an absolute liability.
 
"Let's have a heated debate!"
 
hobbers said:
When Burgon is your top guy.....

Maybe it's time to stop swimming in the cool aid.
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Sorry pal, as shit as Burgon is, the cool aid was used up by all those Tory cnuts falling for Johnson's bullshit in December.
 
Ubik said:
Yup pretty big.
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In modern politics, the party leader is of vital significance.
And we saw what the Boris effect had and conversely the Corbyn effect.
And the role profile requires that they are the figurehead of the party and in an election that they display leadership qualities.

So. For me, that puts Starmer very much in the pole position.
 
There's a part of me that would love to see Gardiner/Burgon as the leadership team, just for a couple of weeks.
 
Gardiner gave as good as he got and then some in plenty of pre-election interviews, surprisingly so, but he would be naff as leader.

The Momentum group I follow is all firmly RLB/Burgon - Definitely in their own bubble. I think she'd take a hiding from the Tories in a way that Starmer wouldn't, and not because she is a woman.
 
He knows there are enough people in the party to whom that will appeal to in order to give him a realistic chance of becoming deputy leader, so he's going for it. It tells me he is in it for himself and the job as much as anything else because he will know 'comrade' goes down like a lead balloon on twitter with everyone else and he's doing it regardless.
 
I can't really see past Starmer winning at this point. He does actually seen to be the unity candidate that was hoped for.

RLB will lose votes from Corbyn supporters but not gain any from anyone else.

Philips is an idiot and has no chance.

Nandy might have a chance but I think there are people from both sides who have issues with her.
 
Shamwow said:
I can't really see past Starmer winning at this point. He does actually seen to be the unity candidate that was hoped for.

RLB will lose votes from Corbyn supporters but not gain any from anyone else.

Philips is an idiot and has no chance.

Nandy might have a chance but I think there are people from both sides who have issues with her.
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Starmer is doing well in that he’s popular with centrists and seen as the sensible head however he’s not afraid to talk up the positives of socialism and that he doesn’t want to just give up on left wing politics and move the party back towards the centre. It seems that he’s keen to offer the unions a credible front to their goals which I really hope he can do. Move away from framing it as radical politics which might have earned Corbyn an early surge in popularity but it ultimately lost him two elections.
 
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