New Stadium or Revamp Old Trafford | Aim is to build 100k seater stadium

Would you rather a new stadium or rebuild Old Trafford?

  • New stadium

    Votes: 1,033 57.2%

  • Rebuild Old Trafford

    Votes: 772 42.8%
  • Total voters
    1,805
RedDevilCanuck said:
Fenway Park smells like piss and is very uncomfortable. They will never move. Why? Because it's a baseball institution - just like Old Trafford.

Most fans regret the new shiny toy. No I don't go to Old Trafford. I get it. Perhaps it is uncomfortable and outdated. But that history. It's quite magical. You are there for 2 hours. You can be a little cramped for that time and take in the fact you are sitting in one of the top 5 stadiums for memories on earth.

Revamp..don't move. Please.
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As someone who has been to both, Fenway Park's seats are worse than the old Stretford End ones!
 
Berbaclass said:
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So people don't have to click on the clickbait - it's nothing to do with our proposed stadium, the same company that the Glazers appointed to look into it are doing another one in Morocco.
 


"Yesterday, I chaired the first meeting of the Old Trafford Regeneration Task Force to kick off a conversation about how development of a world-class football stadium for the north of England can deliver social and economic benefits for the region.

"At the London 2012 Olympics, I saw first-hand how sport can be a powerful driver of urban regeneration and I am excited to be part of this project.

"This meeting marked the start of a multi-stakeholder process to explore options for the stadium and surrounding area.

"We are at the start of this journey, and it is too soon to know where it will lead. But we will consult closely with fans and local residents along the way, and keep everyone informed of progress."
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Well, Seb what was the outcome of the meeting? What issues were discussed? I know it's early days, but you have pledged to keep the fans informed.
 
YouTube video about RM redevelopment of the Bernabou and turning it into one of the most modern stadiums in the world with retractable roof and foldable pitch that can be stored in a grass house area beneath the surface.


 
UnofficialDevil said:
Lets hope we don’t do anything like this

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That's a bit like one of the spoof OT rebuild options that went around a couple of years ago where they had general fan's bars on the roofs! That'd doubtless be outwith my pocket but if idiots want to fork out thousands for it and it doesn't impact other fans then fill your boots. Better fleecing the more money than sense/corporate lot than normal fans.
 
FYI (for the not so local fans)

local council are pushing forward with a regeneration of the whole area around old Trafford. A 15 year transformation apparently

See here
https://www.lda-design.co.uk/kindling/news/framework-for-a-new-old-trafford/

United own a large portion of this land
See here
https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...ground-and-what-will-it-mean-for-old-trafford

I work in the soon to be heritage quarter and the business owns its land and property. Rumour has it a tidy profit will be made to relocate

Surely Utd will similarly see a significant sum for the land they own.

just thought to share because I’m sure people think new stadium and assume 1.5 billion debt added to the club but closer to home…I’m sure there will be plenty of dealings to drive down the cost. The ABUs of course won’t report this!!…instead it’ll all be saddled on the club
 
Prices in Trafford Park have risen significantly in the last few years, I would imagine they'll go through the roof if/when this regeneration happens.
The unit I work in the company bought it for around £40 a square metre 12 years ago, they are selling up(sadly means I'll be made redundant)prices now are around £160ish a square metre.
 
Can't see the club ever moving fromt he Old Trafford location. A new Stadium on the site would be one thing, somewhere entirely different and it would cause chaos with the fanbase.

The rising value of th eland would make it much easier to finance things though.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
Can't see the club ever moving fromt he Old Trafford location. A new Stadium on the site would be one thing, somewhere entirely different and it would cause chaos with the fanbase.

The rising value of th eland would make it much easier to finance things though.
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Whilst I don't see them moving there's no reason not to if that's the best option, the club was born elsewhere and had no connection to Old Trafford at all when it moved there
 
Red in STL said:
Whilst I don't see them moving there's no reason not to if that's the best option, the club was born elsewhere and had no connection to Old Trafford at all when it moved there
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There’ll be fecking murders if that happens and we’ve been at old Trafford for well over a hundred years if I’m correct.
 
New stadium or redevelopment are both fine by me.

What we need to also do is regenerate that entire area surrounding OT and make it into a proper footballing destination.

Make some money doing so too.
 
matherto said:
Old Trafford was a soulless pile of bricks in 1910.
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But it’s not now, it’s the home of Manchester United for over 100 years of history. Old Trafford is held in awe across the world.
I think we can rework the stadium the way many are redeveloping rather than building right now. It’s never the same once you go to a new one and there’s no second chance
 
Only 2 nights ago did I realise Barca are renovating Camp Nou as well. Obviously Real and Atletico Madrid already did it/Atletico got a new stadium. City, Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Everton, Bayern earlier etc... Glazers really screwed us not doing anything about Old Trafford, it's been clear for a long time renovations are required.
 
golden_blunder said:
But it’s not now, it’s the home of Manchester United for over 100 years of history. Old Trafford is held in awe across the world.
I think we can rework the stadium the way many are redeveloping rather than building right now. It’s never the same once you go to a new one and there’s no second chance
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Will be difficult. If we want to increase capacity, tread size, have bigger seats etc. We'll need far more space to redevelop, sadly OT is bound by the canal and railway line.
 
Doesn't the railway make it exceedingly challenging to renovate Old Trafford to a standard that would make the renovation financially feasible?
 
I know it’s been suggested before but why haven’t they built over the railway line and have it as an Old Trafford stop?
 
lex talionis said:
Doesn't the railway make it exceedingly challenging to renovate Old Trafford to a standard that would make the renovation financially feasible?
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You could renovate the South Stand from the inside but you'd be restricted in terms of increasing its size by a significant amount.

The main thing you could do without leaving OT is reshape the North/SAF Stand to make it a two tier stand, essentially having a much bigger 2nd tier rather than having slightly smaller 2nd and 3rd tiers. That would probably mean having a season or two of playing with a reduced capacity whilst the redevelopment takes place.
 
The more I look at the size of the footprint of other top stadiums the more I think there is nowhere near enough room there, and building over the railway would add only a sliver. The only way is to take over the container yards and build there, which would mean finding another site for them. If we did they might be happy to move, it must be a pretty crap location for moving containers in and out by road. If not I say move, anything else and our ground would be second class, and we shouldn't settle for that.
 
golden_blunder said:
I know it’s been suggested before but why haven’t they built over the railway line and have it as an Old Trafford stop?
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It already is an Old Trafford stop and has been since the 1930s. And money. Huge sums of money.

Edit: Also, even if they do bridge over the tracks it doesn't buy enough space and will be about 5 yards away from a bunch of people's back gardens on Railway Street.
 
decorativeed said:
It already is an Old Trafford stop and has been since the 1930s. And money. Huge sums of money.

Edit: Also, even if they do bridge over the tracks it doesn't buy enough space and will be about 5 yards away from a bunch of people's back gardens on Railway Street.
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It's not used anymore, since 2018, the club had health and safety concerns due to, I'm guessing, the changes to the outside of the stadium and access to the railway halt, I used to use it in the 80's and even then there was a crush and overcrowding problem form time to time
 
golden_blunder said:
But it’s not now, it’s the home of Manchester United for over 100 years of history. Old Trafford is held in awe across the world.
I think we can rework the stadium the way many are redeveloping rather than building right now. It’s never the same once you go to a new one and there’s no second chance
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I don't see how.

If you rework the stadium as it is for modern standards/comforts (which you're going to do because what's the point otherwise) then you lose capacity because we'd have to increase legroom as a bare minimum. that means all stands having something done to them. Not just legroom but you'd also want to completely rework the concourses which would then impact the turnstiles and the entrance stairways.
If you're gonna go to the trouble of touching all four stands then you might as well knock them down and rebuild.

But if you're gonna rebuild then you wouldn't do it in the same place due to the railway line so you'd be moving it away from there.

So no matter what you end up with new stands and a new ground, just depends if you still want to be bound by the current footprint or not. It wouldn't make sense to build it back in the exact same place so?

And we'll just create another 100+ years of history. The very fact that OT started as nothing and then gained all the history proves that a new ground can do the same thing. It's just how much of your particular life you'll see in the new ground creating the new memories. If you're of the older generations I can understand the hesitance because you won't see as much in the new ground as you would've done in the current one but if you're young then there's plenty of time to see United perform magic and make the new place special.

We need to move forward. We can't do that with the current ground as is.
 
Red in STL said:
It's not used anymore, since 2018, the club had health and safety concerns due to, I'm guessing, the changes to the outside of the stadium and access to the railway halt, I used to use it in the 80's and even then there was a crush and overcrowding problem form time to time
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Oh yeah, it hadn't been fit for purpose for a long time - I worked at the ground until 2015 and while it was still running then, it couldn't handle anywhere near the numbers of people required to make it useful.

And that Munich Tunnel area under the south stand is absolutely the worst place to be funneling even more people into before or after a game. It's a massive crush risk.
 
matherto said:
I don't see how.

If you rework the stadium as it is for modern standards/comforts (which you're going to do because what's the point otherwise) then you lose capacity because we'd have to increase legroom as a bare minimum. that means all stands having something done to them. Not just legroom but you'd also want to completely rework the concourses which would then impact the turnstiles and the entrance stairways.
If you're gonna go to the trouble of touching all four stands then you might as well knock them down and rebuild.

But if you're gonna rebuild then you wouldn't do it in the same place due to the railway line so you'd be moving it away from there.

So no matter what you end up with new stands and a new ground, just depends if you still want to be bound by the current footprint or not. It wouldn't make sense to build it back in the exact same place so?
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The rumours I’ve been reading is that they will be doing it a stand at a time and something about raising the height if the roof
 
golden_blunder said:
The rumours I’ve been reading is that they will be doing it a stand at a time and something about raising the height if the roof
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A stand at a time makes sense cause you still want to be playing there whilst it's built but it means you're stuck pretty much with the south stand as is which makes no sense as that's the main sticking point and always will be.

The only way you could do it right is by knocking down the SAF stand, bridging the canal and building further back then moving the pitch north. (Or better yet rotating it 90 degrees and moving north west).

Plus then you end up with the ship of Theseus argument as none of what would then be standing would be the 110 years of history.
 
matherto said:
A stand at a time makes sense cause you still want to be playing there whilst it's built but it means you're stuck pretty much with the south stand as is which makes no sense as that's the main sticking point and always will be.

The only way you could do it right is by knocking down the SAF stand, bridging the canal and building further back then moving the pitch north. (Or better yet rotating it 90 degrees and moving north west).

Plus then you end up with the ship of Theseus argument as none of what would then be standing would be the 110 years of history.
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Make it simpler - Triggers broom :D

As for the 110 year old history, there's only 1bit left from then anyway and that's part of the old tunnel

I've posted in this thread before about the footprint, comparing Wembley and Spur's grounds with OT, the links to Google maps using the same scale shows the vast difference between OT and the others
 
Man United’s stadium plan takes inspiration from Barcelona and Real
With the cost of building a new stadium likely to be £1 billion more expensive than redeveloping Old Trafford, United realise it is likely they will need to play at their existing home while rebuild takes place


Manchester United are conducting detailed analysis of the stadium projects at Real Madrid and Barcelona, knowing that redeveloping the existing Old Trafford site could be as much as £1 billion cheaper than building a new ground.
With few if any options to relocate during the building of a new ground — Tottenham Hotspur, for instance, spent more than a year at Wembley — United already realise that any plan almost certainly involves continuing to play at the existing stadium while building work is being done.

That does present challenges. Real Madrid moved out temporarily from the Santiago Bernabéu during the redevelopment of their ground while Barcelona are hosting their home matches at the Montjuic stadium used for the 1992 Olympic Games.

But Collette Roche, the United chief operating officer, was spotted last week in Madrid, for Manchester City’s Champions quarter-final tie, and it is understood that the rebuilding projects undertaken by both Spanish clubs are of a particular interest to Old Trafford officials.

At this stage sources insist that all options remain open, with an entirely new 100,000-seater stadium on a site adjacent to the present ground still a possibility. It was only this week that Lord Coe confirmed he had chaired the first meeting of the Old Trafford Regeneration Task Force, which includes Gary Neville and Roche.

But the feasibility studies conducted by a team of consultants led by Populous and Legends International have already detailed the extra costs involved in that option, with new part-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe also speculating that an entirely new ground could cost twice as much: about £2 billion.

There are other factors to consider. While initially far more expensive, a new ground would generate more revenue in the longer term while limiting revenue losses associated with closing parts of the existing stadium if United opted to redevelop their present 75,000-seater home.

Ratcliffe has, however, made no secret of his admiration for the improvements being made in Madrid and Barcelona. Speaking last month on the Geraint Thomas Cycling Club podcast, he said: “Manchester United needs to have a stadium that is befitting the club and the brand.

“If you look at what Real Madrid are doing with the Bernabéu and Barcelona with the Nou Camp, the Bernabéu is fabulous. It’s like a cauldron of noise. The Nou Camp is enormous and they are spending a lot of money revamping it.

“You look at the Premier League, we don’t have anything that compares. And yet the Premier League is several times bigger than the Spanish league in terms of size, scale and importance today. That’s where all the money is with TV. The Premier League needs to have some grounds which are the equal of our European competitors.”

Madrid announced their plans for a renovation of their ground, and an increase in capacity from 81,000 to 85,000, back in 2017. At a cost of more than £860 million — some experts estimate that figure will end up closer to £1.5 billion — they are also adding a retractable roof and pitch as well as a new 450-space car park underneath. The capacity is being increased with the addition of an extra tier that has raised the height of the stadium by ten metres. For a period during the Covid-19 pandemic the club played their matches at the Alfredo Di Stéfano Stadium.

In 2022 Barcelona unveiled their plans for £1.3 billion renovation of the Nou Camp, with a new roof and facade, and the capacity due to increase to 105,000. The cable net roof will be the largest of its kind at any stadium in the world, according to the engineering firm involved with the rebuild, Robert Bird Group.
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