New Stadium or Revamp Old Trafford | Aim is to build 100k seater stadium

[Victorian values]

One possibility that I haven't seen discussed here yet is do similar to Wolves done a "few" years ago (might have been 30 years now though).
Knock down the SAF Stand and rebuild it bigger and with m0re "facilities" about 15 - 20 yards further from the railway lines, then rebuild the K - Stand the next year, the Stretty the following year and then bring the Bobby Charlton stand 15 yards further forward.
The new stands can then be built with the front rows about 2 feet higher than they currently are, negating the risk of injury to player's by the slope just off the pitch, the new Stretty and K-stand can have a standing area for 10,000 each end lower tier with affordable tickets, with more and better corporate options on the second and third tier (good for the bean counters), and office space on 10 or 20 year lease for companies under the stands to offset costs.
As for the name, Old Trafford is the region the ground is in, that won't change, LCCC may have turned the pitch, knocked down the pavilion, built New stands and a hotel, but it is still Old Trafford

 

[stevoc]

I've seen construction pics, the original two tiers are just bears bones, Steve. I'll have a mooch around for you.

No I think we're on the same page mate. I personally just wouldn't consider it a virtual rebuild.

 

[stevoc]

One possibility that I haven't seen discussed here yet is do similar to Wolves done a "few" years ago (might have been 30 years now though).
Knock down the SAF Stand and rebuild it bigger and with m0re "facilities" about 15 - 20 yards further from the railway lines, then rebuild the K - Stand the next year, the Stretty the following year and then bring the Bobby Charlton stand 15 yards further forward.
The new stands can then be built with the front rows about 2 feet higher than they currently are, negating the risk of injury to player's by the slope just off the pitch, the new Stretty and K-stand can have a standing area for 10,000 each end lower tier with affordable tickets, with more and better corporate options on the second and third tier (good for the bean counters), and office space on 10 or 20 year lease for companies under the stands to offset costs.
As for the name, Old Trafford is the region the ground is in, that won't change, LCCC may have turned the pitch, knocked down the pavilion, built New stands and a hotel, but it is still Old Trafford

That probably should have been done to some extent in 1995 when the North stand was demolished.

 

[Dan_F]

I'm a season ticket holder, and you can hear singing from all parts of the stadium, we are the opposite side from the TRA who sit above the tunnel and we can hear them loud and clear. I also agree that the issues with Old Trafford are exaggerated. And there are many reasons for this. One being that all of the media, journalists, commentators and pundits are housed in the oldest and crappiest part of the stadium. That Bobby Charlton stand has sections that date back to 1910 and the main bulk of it was built in the 1960's. So if you're covering a game one week at Spurs, or Arsenal, then come to Old Trafford, you would notice a significant drop in the facilities.

That said, the part of the stadium that I sit in, was built in 1997, and to my left, the quadrants were built in 2006 and the extensions to both ends were completed in 2000, so by no means is it "falling down"

3 sides of the ground are perfectly fine, the Bobby Charlton stand needs to be addressed and we no longer need the sloping roofs to let sunlight onto the pitch, as everyone uses UV lights on wheels now. Look at what architects did with the Bernabeu and take that sort of idea and see what can be done with what we have. Which is a fantastic stadium built for football. Not for athletics or concerts. No running tracks or removable pitches, just a great football stadium for us.

Interesting, I’ve only been in the Stretford end in the last few seasons, and it’s not as regular as it was before. Previous occasions I was in the scoreboard end, I really struggled to hear stuff coming from the other side. Maybe TRA has changed that.

There’s definitely improvements that need to be made with the acoustics, but better organisation of fans will help, such as sections like TRA in other areas of the pitch (I know this has been done to an extent). You get times where there’s several chants being sung at the same time, or they are in time from different parts of the stadium. I don’t notice that at other grounds.

 

[Spoony]

No I think we're on the same page mate. I personally just wouldn't consider it a virtual rebuild.

No worries, mate. I'd knock OT down to the bottom tier and build up like Barca. I guess it just won't be economically viable, though.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Yeah, when was the last time the Nou Camp had a major renovation or expansion?

I'll save you the Google, it was 1994.

The Bernabeu also seen it's last major expansion in 1994 and a minor expansion in 2011.

May still have been in ‘94 but they still would need to have general up keep, which we haven’t been able to do sadly

 

[Pscholes18]

Now that Jimmy is taking over, forget about a new stadium. It will come down to fixing OT which I'm okay with. Didn't realize that OT doesn't have a screen?

 

[stevoc]

May still have been in ‘94 but they still would need to have general up keep, which we haven’t been able to do sadly

So what would that entail exactly?

Because United have been making minor alterations and renovations/maintenance to OT for the last few years.

 

[Giggsyking]

New.

 

[stevoc]

No worries, mate. I'd knock OT down to the bottom tier and build up like Barca. I guess it just won't be economically viable, though.

Yeah we'd need to do something along those lines. The biggest problem is the seating and the stands being at slightly different angles. With how high the pitch is in relation to the stands, I wonder would it be possible to build a new seating structure over the current one and align all the seating and give people a bit more room.

But yeah for a manor renovation we're probably looking at at least a billion. I just don't see where that's coming from with the Parasites hanging about. Unless uncle Jim is feeling particularly generous in his twilight years.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Now that Jimmy is taking over, forget about a new stadium. It will come down to fixing OT which I'm okay with. Didn't realize that OT doesn't have a screen?

Why does OT need a screen?

 

[neon_badger]

So what would that entail exactly?

Because United have been making minor alterations and renovations/maintenance to OT for the last few years.

They've also been arseing around with the idea of building a new stadium during this time, probably as a tactical way of swerving spending money on the current stadium, and when they spend its usually something like very noticeably cleaning the white structures on the roof above the megastore, in a weak attempt to appease the fans that were on the brink of ripping the place apart. Once they've committed to staying or rebuilding we'll all be in a better place, literally. I think it can be turned around, just not with the Glazers acting as slum landlords. The only work they've committed to in the stadium was forced such as the new disabled section, or fixing dilapidated hospitality areas that were held together with tape.

 

[astracrazy]

Are you really that naive?

No, Im not as stupid.

I've been involved on extensions many of times, some on buildings way older than OT, and not once did it play out like you some how think it does.....

 

[Mr Pigeon]

That probably should have been done to some extent in 1995 when the North stand was demolished.

fecking Glazers.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Why does OT need a screen?

The thing is you could probably put screens up on the edges of the Stretty and East stands, where the corners meet the south stand. They've already got those little text ticker tape things.

They wouldn't be huge but big enough to show sponsorship videos for INEOS brand hand sanitizer

 

[Red in STL]

I imagine we would go for 85-90k range, or even closer to current capacity. I doubt we would go for anything above current Wembley capacity.

Barcelona are going for 105k though so there's a chance.

Why not? If United can fill it what's the probem?

One advantage that United may be able to take advantage of is the rail type seating, which I assume takes up less space and therefore could increase capacity without enlarging the stadium footprint

 

[decorativeed]

When you say almost every ambitious club needs to go through this at some point in time, which of the ambitious clubs are excluding in the ‘almost’? Is it those that have already got a stadium that holds 75,000? These ambitious clubs that have built new stadiums still haven’t got the capacity of OT so why would we need to rebuild to be ambitious if we already have the largest capacity ground in the premier league?

Ah, I see. Ambition stops at 75,000. Good point.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Why not? If United can fill it what's the probem?

One advantage that United may be able to take advantage of is the rail type seating, which I assume takes up less space and therefore could increase capacity without enlarging the stadium footprint

We might be able to fill it but the current traffic infrastructure probably can't.

 

[Red in STL]

That probably should have been done to some extent in 1995 when the North stand was demolished.

They didn't own all the land then, United Road was built over and had to remain open because it was the only access road to some industrial estates behind the stand, I had to drive down there pretty much every weekday in that period

 

[Red in STL]

We might be able to fill it but the current traffic infrastructure probably can't.

True but that's not a whole lot different to today

 

[Mr Pigeon]

True but that's not a whole lot different to today

Also true

 

[philipos]

Like I said before, they haven’t let their stadiums rot beyond repair for 17+ years. They may be old, Camp Nou for example, but the buildings have been looked after well & we have Madrid, who have a better base line to modernise it because it doesn’t need a ton of up keep to get it to that point where they can modernise it.

Have you been to the Nou Camp recently - it’s a hole with rubbish facilities.

 

[bazza3727]

We might be able to fill it but the current traffic infrastructure probably can't.

I've said this before - it comes down to the police objecting to planning based on traffic management and parking. 20k extra patrons could mean an extra 10k cars in the area!

 

[stevoc]

They've also been arseing around with the idea of building a new stadium during this time, probably as a tactical way of swerving spending money on the current stadium, and when they spend its usually something like very noticeably cleaning the white structures on the roof above the megastore, in a weak attempt to appease the fans that were on the brink of ripping the place apart. Once they've committed to staying or rebuilding we'll all be in a better place, literally. I think it can be turned around, just not with the Glazers acting as slum landlords. The only work they've committed to in the stadium was forced such as the new disabled section, or fixing dilapidated hospitality areas that were held together with tape.

I'm not saying the Glazers have been behind major renovations at OT. But Barca have done very little to the Camp Nou in the last 30 years also. My brother visited it a few years ago and he wasn't impressed.

 

[stevoc]

fecking Glazers.

Wankers they are.

 

[stevoc]

They didn't own all the land then, United Road was built over and had to remain open because it was the only access road to some industrial estates behind the stand, I had to drive down there pretty much every weekday in that period

Fair enough, I didn't know that.

 

[JediSith]

A call option is a contract between a buyer and a seller to purchase a certain stock at a certain price up until a defined expiration date. The buyer of a call has the right, not the obligation, to exercise the call and purchase the stocks.

Did you read the part of my post where I said I believe more investment is coming or have you just heard the term Call Option for the first time in the last 72 hours & started throwing it into conversations?

Where did I disagree with the Call Option? That’s right I didn’t but we’d yourself to an SjR narrative that means any questioning of this deal means you throw around terms that aren’t being discussed & you’ve only just grasped over Christmas dinner.

My post was about the people who speak with certainty eg “more investment than the £300m will be coming”

Remember just until the deal was announced they made up the Ratcliffe had put a deal to buy the whole club within 3 years narrative and even started talking about “put and call options” etc etc

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Like I said before, they haven’t let their stadiums rot beyond repair for 17+ years.They may be old, Camp Nou for example, but the buildings have been looked after well

Here’s someone who’s never been to Camp Nou

One of the shittest, most dilapidated “top” stadiums I’ve ever seen, only old Wembley rivals it for me. Absolute shithole that looks like it’s seen no love for at least 3 decades.

Why do posters insist on pretending they have any clue about things they clearly do not. If you’ve not been to the Camp Nou since the 90’s, why on Earth would you make such nonsense claims? Because you’re so desperate for a new stadium you think beefing up an argument against renovations on redcafe somehow bares any significance?

The Camp Nou didn’t just have a leaky fecking roof, it was found to be outright dangerous to life: https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/barcelonas-camp-nou-dangerous-fans-due-dilapidated-state-1695494

 

[Member 123428]

It’s a rat infested, wire rotting, food safety failing, shin bruising, staircase queueing, roof leaking 100+ year old building. I assume anyone who wants it to stay is significantly under 6ft and leaves long before the 90th minute.

With great memories we won’t forget, but if we don’t move forward we’ll lose out on talent, revenue and bums on seats and be a club constantly obsessed about its distant past.

But the reason they’ll build new, is the significant extra revenue massively expanding hospitality and retail will bring in, both on match days and non match days.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It’s a rat infested, wire rotting, food safety failing, shin bruising, staircase queueing, roof leaking 100+ year old building.

Except it aint, not at all.

 

[decorativeed]

Fair enough, I didn't know that.

I think it's probably worth also remembering that the north east quadrant is already only about 20m away from the Bridgewater Canal. It's a very tight corner down there and not much wiggle room between the canal on that side and the railway on the other.

 

[berbasloth4]

Majority of the people asking for a rebuild or new stadium have probably never been to a game before.

stadium only needs a revamp.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Majority of the people asking for a rebuild or new stadium have probably never been to a game before.

stadium only needs a revamp.

You have people in here claiming the building is 100 years old

For any of us that went in the 80’s, it’s pretty hilarious to read.
The stadium I grew watching games in looked like this…

It’s for all intents and purposes a 30 year old stadium, at most.

 

[berbasloth4]

You have people in here claiming the building is 100 years old

For any of us that went in the 80’s, it’s pretty hilarious to read.
The stadium I grew watching games in looked like this…

It’s for all intents and purposes a 30 year old stadium, at most.

my first game at old Trafford redone the stretford end. The stadium was regularly revamped and that’s all it needs

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

my first game at old Trafford redone the stretford end. The stadium was regularly revamped and that’s all it needs

You had @UnitedSofa in here claiming the Nou Camp was in much better shape for a revamp as it’s been so well taken care of, completely ignoring that:

a) it hasn’t, it was a complete shithole that was falling apart.

and

b) The North, East & West Stands of Old Trafford… so 75% of the stadium has been completely rebuilt since Barca last did any renovations on the Camp Nou.

The entire North Stand is just 27 years old.
The first tiers of Stretty and East are 30 years old and the second tiers just 23 years old.

The Quads are 17 years old.

 

[Mainoldo]

Here’s someone who’s never been to Camp Nou

One of the shittest, most dilapidated “top” stadiums I’ve ever seen, only old Wembley rivals it for me. Absolute shithole that looks like it’s seen no love for at least 3 decades.

Why do posters insist on pretending they have any clue about things they clearly do not. If you’ve not been to the Camp Nou since the 90’s, why on Earth would you make such nonsense claims? Because you’re so desperate for a new stadium you think beefing up an argument against renovations on redcafe somehow bares any significance?

The Camp Nou didn’t just have a leaky fecking roof, it was found to be outright dangerous to life: https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/barcelonas-camp-nou-dangerous-fans-due-dilapidated-state-1695494

Nou Camp is a pile of shite as the San Siro. However I don’t see how it backs an argument not to have a new stadium? If anything it proves why one is needed.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Nou Camp is a pile of shite as the San Siro. However I don’t see how it backs an argument not to have a new stadium? If anything it proves why one is needed.

Eh?

The Nou Camp, despite being in horrendous shape (we’ve completely rebuilt 75% of OT since they last did anything with Camp Nou), was able to be revamped.

So if the Nou Camp can be turned into an incredible new modern stadium, there’s no reason United can’t do the same with a much newer stadium, with less than 30 year old foundations.

I’m not saying we should, but it can absolutely be done, as Barca & Real have shown us.

 

[Mainoldo]

Eh?

The Nou Camp, despite being in horrendous shape (we’ve completely rebuilt 75% of OT since they last did anything with Camp Nou), was able to be revamped.

So if the Nou Camp can be turned into an incredible new modern stadium, there’s no reason United can’t do the same with a much newer stadium, with less than 30 year old foundations.

I’m not saying we should, but it can absolutely be done, as Barca & Real have shown us.

It can be done but the time and effort it will take to do so plus lack of income. We might aswell play there whilst a new stadium is built with it only taking two years.

Forget Real and Barca. Look at Atletico. The atmosphere in that stadium is amazing too.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It can be done but the time and effort it will take to do so plus lack of income. We might aswell play there whilst a new stadium is built with it only taking two years.

Forget Real and Barca. Look at Atletico. The atmosphere in that stadium is amazing too.

Not arguing which is best in fairness, sure that’ll eventually all come down to the costs and what can be done at those prices.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

My post was about the people who speak with certainty eg “more investment than the £300m will be coming”

Remember just until the deal was announced they made up the Ratcliffe had put a deal to buy the whole club within 3 years narrative and even started talking about “put and call options” etc etc

Ah right, I get you. We agree.