He really didn't. I'd imagine that someone like Schmeichel or Kahn (I adore both by the way), for example, made quite a lot more. He wasn't one of those nearly flawless keepers (like Buffon or van der Sar if we exclude the Serie A spell) but he was never error-prone.
"Neuer is the best goalkeeper ever" - Jamie Redknapp
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Yeah you're right about 2018 when I look back at the goals, I must be misremembering it. Maybe I'm thinking about Euro 2020 or something or conflating it with something else.
As for the foul, plenty in Argentina thought it was, journalists like Jonathan Wilson as well. It was controversial enough for a thread to be made that reached 9 pages, people to remember an incident in a game 10 years later and for the video to have more than 1 million views. I thought it was a reckless attempt to get the ball, getting the ball first doesn't excuse the dangerous follow through. Anyway, what happened happened, Neuer did deserve the World Cup for his performances that tournament.
I think we have different memories, it wasn't just the error with hands it was giving the ball away when playing form the back and trying to be too clever when dribbling past attackers. The most high profile one being when he took out Higauin in the final, he really shouldn't have been on the pitch after that.
I never said longevity was the only thing and 3 of the 5 I mentioned do have the longevity over him, so there's your longevity. I don't think Neuer has been as good as his first half of his career, he's been mostly injured /playing in a poor bundesliga . Fair enough on Schmeichel (still a long career) but it's not just his longevity, I rate the post 1991 United key players very highly to transforming the club into the behemoth it is now, they did it from scratch and he was a key part of that, Neuer has stayed in his comfort zone. I'm not even sure why this is controversial, I've already said he's one of the best goalkeepers of all time
It's a fairly recent view on the matter — that this actually constitutes a foul. I'm actually not sure how recent but I know that they've had to explain this to UEFA refs in 2022 using the example below as it was usually allowed beforehand (keeper protecting himself with a knee even though there was a possibility of hurting another player).
So yeah, I wouldn't use it against him especially when comparing to the likes of Kahn who did it every week.
Petr Cech particularly before the head injury and during the glory years with Chelsea was better than Neuer.
If you're talking about longevity, than Casillas, Neuer, and Buffon generally dominate but Cech was better than them all at his peak.
Cech's save percentage, clean sheet record, etc, were all outstanding at Chelsea.
If you're talking about longevity, than Casillas, Neuer, and Buffon generally dominate but Cech was better than them all at his peak.
Cech's save percentage, clean sheet record, etc, were all outstanding at Chelsea.
Ability wise he was definitely up there with the best, he's unlucky that he played for a weak national team so wasn't able to shine at international tournaments, winning continental championships and World cups elevates players a lot.
I think it's not only the important international aspect but how his time at Arsenal was kind of underwhelming. He almost became irrelevant compared to what he had been.
Chelsea had a strong defensive set up at that time when he was at his best and having Cech behind them was almost demoralising. He had an aura that probably only Schmeichel has equalled in the EPL.
Regarding the mistakes discussion, one thing I would say is that most great keepers have errors on their CV often in the biggest games of their careers - VDS in the 11 CL final, Cesar in the 10 WC QF, Kahn in the 02 WC Final, Toldo in the 00 Euro final, Schmeichel in the 99 CL final, Peruzzi in the 95 CL final, Pagliuca in the 94 WC final, Zenga in the 90 WC semi, Schumacher in the 86 WC final, Pfaff in the 80 Euros final, Yashin in the 66 WC semi. Equally though they all have great pedigree in performing heroics in other big games, or in dragging their teams to that big game in the first place.
It felt like a red at the time. Now after a VAR check it would be a red card 100 times out of 100. Looking back with today's lens it appears incredibly reckless. But keepers often got away with that kind of thing before VAR. Plus I think it's only in the last few years that there's been a counter-move to reduce the instances of keepers crashing into people without a care in the world.
Cech was brilliant then but he only had 2 seasons at Chelsea before the head injury, if you pick the best two years of Neuer 2013-2014 then it compares as well as Cech or better.
Cech after the injury made too many mistakes and had a lot of average seasons, some similarities to De Gea actually where he would through phases of being very good and others of being a completely liability.
Higuan ran into Neuer's knee while staring at the ball Neuer actually played. It being painful doesn't matter if it's not a foul by the opposition in the first place.
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Jamie had an argument here.
Jamie had an argument here.
Redknapp generally just says the most obvious and commonly accepted opinion. This was pretty impressive from him considering how early he was on it.
Not sure if this is joking or not.
The only way he was able to get the ball was because he turned Higuain into a crash-test dummy and charged through him at pace. If his knee was very slightly higher Higuain could have been easily knocked out.
Stuff like that should always have been a foul, but, as said, punishing it was never very consistent historically. A lot of the time taking someone out to get the ball with less physically dangerous low dives would be far more likely to get whistled.
Higuain is the one running into the box while looking over his shoulder in the other direction. He knows the keeper is coming and he doesn't get the ball. Had Neuer not lifted his knee to protect his balls Higuain would have headbutted those and no one would even think of calling it a Neuer foul.
He definitely had one of highest peaks you could see from a keeper, or even a player in general, won everything there is to win simply because he eas ridiculously good at that time.
At some other time he could make mistake quite often, and his logetivity isn't something that goes in his favour. For example from last 20 years - VDS, Buffon, Iker are all better longetivity wise, but his peak was also easily better.
At some other time he could make mistake quite often, and his logetivity isn't something that goes in his favour. For example from last 20 years - VDS, Buffon, Iker are all better longetivity wise, but his peak was also easily better.
He said this after Neuer had added the WC to a CL win in the previous 2 years, and had just finished 3rd in the Ballon D'or voting. Neuer actually wouldn't do that much for the next 5 years til Bayern won the CL during Covid. He had already had his peak
For me, he's the best I've ever seen so that's all I can say. Not sure he's the Messi of keeping (if there ever will be one) but he's damn close. Changed the game forever.
I can say with a hand on my heart that out of all the goalkeepers I have seen, I'd take Neuer without hesitation and I absolutely love Gigi Buffon. Neuers distribution cuts the glass for me and he isn't much(if at all) worse shot-stopper than the likes of Buffon/Cech/Casillas.
I'm sorry but these Higuain Neuer replays are the camera following Higuain's sprint. Of course it's going to look like Neuer is coming in with 100kmh and clearing out a static Higuain. It's a visual illusion as due to the moving camera it looks like Neuer has the pace of Higuain and himself combined.
Obviously he is sprinting, but I think it's quite obvious that Neuer
- got the ball
- was running slower than Higuain
- didn't connect with Higuain's head with his actual knee
On top of that Higuain charges into the situation without ever checking what's happening ahead of him.
If it had been Neuer's knee it could've been like what Garay did to Kramer in the same match, but it wasn't.
Kramer on the other hand ACTUALLY did get knocked out and didn't know anymore whether it was the World Cup final or not that he was playing in. Kramer also wasn't running in with nearly as much pace as Higuain. That's the one that should've been a penalty and a potential red card.
Obviously he is sprinting, but I think it's quite obvious that Neuer
- got the ball
- was running slower than Higuain
- didn't connect with Higuain's head with his actual knee
On top of that Higuain charges into the situation without ever checking what's happening ahead of him.
If it had been Neuer's knee it could've been like what Garay did to Kramer in the same match, but it wasn't.
Kramer on the other hand ACTUALLY did get knocked out and didn't know anymore whether it was the World Cup final or not that he was playing in. Kramer also wasn't running in with nearly as much pace as Higuain. That's the one that should've been a penalty and a potential red card.
In terms of the actual topic:
I have never seen a better goalkeeper than Neuer.
Buffon was amazing but Neuer has some things to him that Buffon just didn't do. It's not that Buffon was lacking these traits. It's that Neuer actually brought new traits into play that no one knew were so valuable before he turned them into the modern standard. Neuer is the complete package and then some.
I have never seen a better goalkeeper than Neuer.
Buffon was amazing but Neuer has some things to him that Buffon just didn't do. It's not that Buffon was lacking these traits. It's that Neuer actually brought new traits into play that no one knew were so valuable before he turned them into the modern standard. Neuer is the complete package and then some.
I remember watching him for the first time in 2011 when we played Schalke in the UCL. The first game in Germany he was like a brick wall for the first hour or so. I came away very impressed and wanted us to sign him to replace VDS.
What a gk, number 1 of all time for me. Buffon second. Too young to have seen Yashin.
What a gk, number 1 of all time for me. Buffon second. Too young to have seen Yashin.
Yep. Best out there
Can't think of anyone who was as good at him. Maybe there was a keeper who was as good at Neuer at shot stopping, maybe one in 1 on 1 situations, maybe one at controlling the box, maybe one with the ball at his foot but none were clearly better in any of these disciplines let alone multiple ones. At least none in the last 25 years.
Probably the only German player who could be considered the greatest in his position save for Beckenbauer whose role doesn't really exist anymore.
Probably the only German player who could be considered the greatest in his position save for Beckenbauer whose role doesn't really exist anymore.
These two aren't a patch on Neuer.
I fully understand Buffon, Zoff and Yashin being included but these two have absolutely nothing to do in this conversation. Let alone being ahead of him. They belong to a tier below, despite their immense talent. Neuer's much better with his feet than Kahn, and I can't think of another reason to shoe-horn Schmeichel other than a MU bias.
Neuer is by far the best and most complete GK I've ever seen, the most influential of his era, and I'm old enough to have watched Schmeichel and Kahn in their prime.
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Yea I wouldn't put Kahn above Neuer. While his peak was certainly great and could be comparable to Neuer, especially the 02 WC versus Neuer's 14 WC, there was a significant drop out for Kahn post 2003 that saw him get dropped from the national team for Lehmann. Neuer hasn't had that drop but rather got a resurgence after returning from his hand injury.
And Gerd Müller.
Even in a comparison at either's peaks I'd put Neuer over Kahn. I have huge respect for Kahn, but at no point in his career was he as complete a package as Neuer was. Where Kahn of course eclipses Neuer (and everyone else) is in terms of legendary media interaction.
Neuer is, for me, certainly a very good shout for "best ever". Definitely top 3. Reasons have been given plenty by others, so I won't reiterate.
Nicely put. I might give Schmeichel and Kahn a narrow edge for their aggressive shot-stopping, but Neuer marries modern and traditional better than anyone. Always hard to compare across eras, and even more so with goalkeepers where the position has developed more rapidly than anywhere else on the park. There might be an argument that Yashin, Buffon and Neuer are the top 3 of all time because they mastered the challenges of their eras better than anyone else. But actually elevating one ahead of the other two (or anyone else) is hard to fully justify and becomes almost futile given the changes the position has seen.
- got the ball - irrelevant when it's dangerous play
- was running slower than Higuain - debateable, but the force of the two players' challenges are wildly different
- didn't connect with Higuain's head with his actual knee - And Schumacher collided with Battiston with his hip.
Players have a duty of care to each other. The rules are clear that reckless and dangerous play is not allowed. The outfield equivalent of what Neuer did would be a big centre-half going to win a header from a long ball, lifting their knee to head height, crashing through the striker, and heading the ball away. That would be a foul every single time and almost certainly a red card. There are ways to win the ball that don't involve almost decapitating the opposition forward. Centre-halves win headers in similar situations all the time but do it with a duty of care.
Over the years I have never seen a more overrated footballer than Neuer. He has been the best in the world every year because literally no one watches Bundesliga. Everyone always watched a highlights reel and you know we bought Antony for 80m based off of highlights.
Every time Neuer played in the champions league, he made error after error. if he played in the PL he would have been crucified by the media every week.
Every time Neuer played in the champions league, he made error after error. if he played in the PL he would have been crucified by the media every week.
What are those errors after error?
Between him and Buffon to me but I would give him the edge considering the trophies (he has 2 UCLs), and Neuer being better at modern goalkeeping (passing, not being glued to the line).
I actually don't think Neuer has been the best in the world for quite some time. Once the injuries started it definitely dropped his level a bit. Prime Neuer was unmatched for me though.
Even in the second half of his career he's still much better than what you are making out though. From memory he did have one bad season, but he recovered from that and has still been one of the better keepers around despite not quite being the keeper he once was.
Make it 4 including me. That leaves you at 1.
Van Der Sar says hi.
: 3 x PFA team of the year
: Golden Glove Winner
: European Goalkeeper of the year
: Champions League team of the tournament
4 x Premier League Titles
Champions League Winner
2x League Cup Titles
Fifa Club World Cup Winner
All achieved between the ages of 35 - 40.
Was also a top 5 keeper with many awards for Ajax in the mid 90s when Dutch football was still good.
My favourite keeper of all time and doesn't get near enough recognition.
He was better than Cech in my opinion.
It's a fairly recent view on the matter — that this actually constitutes a foul. I'm actually not sure how recent but I know that they've had to explain this to UEFA refs in 2022 using the example below as it was usually allowed beforehand (keeper protecting himself with a knee even though there was a possibility of hurting another player).
So yeah, I wouldn't use it against him especially when comparing to the likes of Kahn who did it every week.
I don't think this is a foul by the keeper, neither is Neuer on Higauin. Don't see why people feel the need to be so revisionist about single incidents like this, it's not a Schumacher style knee.
As a keeper you are thought from a young age to jump like that, it's nigh on impossible to get proper leverage on a jump and get your hands up without bringing your knee up. In these situations it's all about protecting yourself and getting to the ball first, if the other player doesn't see you coming or indeed jump to compete for the ball or duck out of the way that's them not protecting themselves. You have to protect yourself first. In these situations the keeper if he jumps straight and doesn't bring the knee up, they are more likely to get hurt by going over the top of a player.
Na in terms of influence and aura and playing in more difficult conditions they have it over Neuer, I mean look at the back line Kahn was playing with at the 02 World Cup, he was the defence. As for Schmeichel, we would have agree to disagree, he's definitely in the conversation Euro 92 and his contribution to the rebuilding of an uber attacking United elevates him for me. With regards to playing with the feet I'll give you that, but as I've explained before I don't hold that against older keepers. Plus this isn't something that's really worth arguing over I have said before if you rate him higher that's fine.
I guess I have different view to him as I watched a lot of Bayern outside of the CL (due to a good friend who is a die hard Bayern fan) and his crazy brainfarts when playing out of the back or rushing out of the goal happened quite a bit (even though he has a few of these moments in the CL too, I also believe he's conceded more than 20 goals in CL semis), these always didn't lead to conceding so are often overlooked. Plus the amount of games in the Bundesliga where he was stood around doing nothing due to how dominant Bayern are is another factor for me.
Anyway, I don't think it's fair to bash him like this as it looks like I'm making him look like a compete liability when he's clearly not and is one of the best GK of all time, but these finer points make a difference in the grand scheme of GOAT debates.
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Van der Sar also won the CL with Ajax.
He was coached by Frans Hoeke, who also coached Valdes at Barca. His idea was to teach the keepers early about the whole game and not just being a keeper. It's why VDS had such an excellent all round game from a young age, same for Valdes who actually goes quite under rated in my opnion. He wasn't the best keeper in the world but he was the best keeper for Barca when they were the best team.
Champions League Finalist at 24yr old
Champions League Finalist at 40yr old
Legend!
United bias? What an outrageous claim. That user in particular is known for his irrefutable objectivity
