So your whole argument is based on a poll from 13 years ago informing the hypothetical scenario where Brady didn't play more than half of his career?
NBA 2022-2023
- Thread starter charlton66
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So your whole argument is based on a poll from 13 years ago informing the hypothetical scenario where Brady didn't play more than half of his career?
Brady wouldn't likely be #1, he'd be a near unanimous #1.
If you think a RB can be in the discussion for greatest NFL player ever than I just don't know what to say to you - we simply disagree, nothing more to say about it.
EDIT: and that's all I say on the subject on here because we're hijacking the NBA thread with NFL talk.
Super Bowl appearances are what teams accomplish, not players. The QB position is more valuable, that is not in debate. But he was not better at doing what he did than they were at what they did. That's why LT was 8 times first team all pro and Brady was 3 times.
Meh, The Great Ones records are untouchable, but that's circumstantial on certain things, the sport heavily evolved by even the time Mario showed up... and he proved to be a more dominant player in that changing game. I dunno, maybe I'm being contrary, but I don't think so, Mario is more magical to me, maybe it's career and life story to go with it swaying me, I don't know.... but swap their roles(and health) and Gretzky struggles to replicate Mario more than Mario replicating Gretzky's career.
If you get so hung up on pure numbers with Gretzky, given he played in a shitty ass era for goalies .... players like Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid don't stand a chance in the strict cap and better goalie depth era. Gretzky peaked in an near 8 goal per game era which dropped to just above 7 for LeMiuex's peak... and then as low as 5.5 for the Crosby/Ovi era.
You do realize that there are 2-3 spots for a linebacker / edge rusher in an all-pro team versus 1 for a QB, right?
That shows how Brown and LT were viewed then.
I love when people challenge the Gretzky orthodoxy. I've seen people stump for Orr as well.
I do. So you think 3 is a lot for a QB?
No one is arguing against them being great. You cannot cite that poll and Brady's position in it as some sort of gotcha when you are omitting 13 years of Brady's career. If anything, it's fecking ludicrous that he was already ranked 21st all time 9 years in.
A technical to all the gentlemen here morphing the NBA into the NFL? One on One against Draymond.
Of course they can FFS. This whole totally QB centric thing is a relatively recent phenomenon. The list I referenced had no QBs in the top 3
I think valuing all-pro voting over team success is fecking stupid
Fair
Yes - as teams have become smarter and have embraced analytics and data, the value of the QB has risen as opposed to the RB. Or do you think teams are getting worse at evaluating what does or doesn't lead to success?
Because you don't understand the sport. But this is the NBA thread
Yes of course, it's obviously better to evaluate players based on what the media thinks versus what actually happened on the field
No, the rules have changed so the pass has become more valuable. Do you actually know anything about the history of this sport? That you used to be able to jam and bump receivers? That you could actually hit QBs?
Did you see LT play?
ok thanks, back to basketball… two great games incoming: bucks at heat & grizzlies at lakers!
Shockingly yes, I do know some things about the history of this sport. You've also missed the biggest pro-passing game shift, that being the targeting rules.
LT is up there with the greatest defensive players of all time. He's also simply not as good as Brady, unless you for some bizarre reason prefer to focus on individual accolades bestowed by AP writers than actual team success on the field.
Why would this be bizarre if you are talking about a GOAT - essentially a non-existent, individual accolade?
Also, LT isn't up there. The gap between him and next for defensive player is legitimately huge.
Because citing AP all pro selections when it's voted on by the media is entirely subjective and largely narrative-driven?
I also just simply don't really think the gap from LT to Reggie White is bigger than the gap from Brady to Montana.
So let's just compare players in different positions in different eras solely by rings in a 50+ man sport then. In which case Terry Bradshaw is twice as good as LT. Yes, that makes much more sense
Don't really want to derail this thread further so feel free to DM me if you want to continue trying to earnestly argue that LT is closer to Brady than Lebron is to MJ
Don't see any need for DMs but there is an NFL thread so I agree that it ends here in the NBA thread.
I will be surprised if Fox doesn't at least try to give it a go for game 5. He made the 3 pointer at the end of game 4 after he picked up the injury so it's feasible that he could at least try to play.
As to luck, let's ask Klay Thompson and Kevin Durant how lucky they felt in 2019. It's swings and roundabouts. Sometimes you get the breaks, sometimes you don't.
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Fox is guaranteed to play game 5.
2019 is the most unluckiest finals for any team in recent history.
Crazy game from Jimmy. The Bucks on thin ice now.
This Heats Bucks game was wild. The playoffs are a different beast.
Butler has been a top-5 player in the playoffs in recent years.
Butler has been a top-5 player in the playoffs in recent years.
Buckets went off! Spo is a better coach and schemer than Bud, so if Heat get this Jimmy, no way Bucks win a game or series.
Middleton hasn't been good enough, but their bench is getting exposed. Also, Miami had dominated and outscored Bucks in 4th quarter scoring, +47. Only negative 4th quarter was game 1 by 1 point. Games 2 to 4, 4th quarter has seen Miami blast Milwaukee.
Playoff Jimmy Buckets 
Oh if only the Sixers had gone all out to keep him
Oh if only the Sixers had gone all out to keep him
What a ridiculous call by the refs in the laker game. AD down injured. Dead ball. Red puts it right back in play and when the lakers foul so he can get medical help they call it a take foul.
Always love Jimmy Buckets .
.Call a fecking timeout Darvin you bum. Entire lead evaporated
But the Warriors have had far more good luck than bad.
1. Steph's ankle injuries, which he got over, leading to him being underpaid.
2. The 2016 cap Spike coinciding with Durant's free agency.
3. 2015 - Love and Irving injuries.
4. 2017 - Zaza injures Kawhi.
5. 2018 - Chris Paul gets injured.
6. 2021 - Ja gets injured.
And now Fox. I probably missed some other things too.
EDIT: Getting KD to agree to a sign-and-trade and subsequently turn D'lo into Wiggins. That's an underrated example of good fortune.
Jimmy feckin Butler
Bucks should sack Bud. Vogel or Nurse would be a good upgrade.
Some of the things you list are just part of being a well run organization. As @SinNombre points out though 2019 was about as bad a run of luck as a team has had in recent years. It almost certainly cost the Dubs a Championship. Also the injuries to Irving and Love in 2015 were pretty much offset by Steph carrying an injury in 2016. Although unlike Irving and Love, Steph was able to play, by the end of the series he was a shadow of his normal self and it almost certainly cost the Dubs that Championship as well. That's even without considering Draymond's stupidity and the league deciding to suspend him.
As I said at the time though, the Raptors deserved their Championship. You can only beat what's in front of you. Same with Cavs in 2016 and the Dubs in 2015. Swings and roundabouts. Sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don’t.
Memphis graduated from the Draymond Green "School of hitting people in the nuts"