NBA 2018-2019

[Sarni]

But even in the summer, they'll struggle to build a package salary wise, no? I understand the whole designated player thing, what I don't understand is how they'll be able to package a deal without sending half of the team to the Pelicans.

A deal with Smart, Rozier, Brown and Tatum is about even, with 26m to Davis 25m. And including Hayward seems impossible with his salary, and the same can be said about Horford.

So a deal with Brown, Rozier and Smart comes up 6m short of matching salaries, but if you throw two picks in, how are the picks valued? Do they affect the salary matching at all?

No, they'll be able to build a deal easily. Davis is due to make $27.1million which means you need to send out between $21.7million and $33.4million. Brown/Tatum and Smart plus picks works just fine, Hayward plus picks works (don't see why NO would be interested in Hayward though), Horford plus picks work. There really are multiple deals they could make, they probably will need to include Smart.

Brown, Rozier and Smart works but they can't trade Rozier as he's expiring in the Summer.

Picks don't count towards salary matching purposes.

 

[stepic]

Butler isn't going to stay IMO. You don't trade out one of the elite young talents when you're trying to build something.

Simmons, Butler and Embiid would fit better than Butler, Davis and Embiid anyway IMO.

Who handles the ball with the second three? Davis and Embiid occupy the same space on the court, unless you're pushing one out to the arc. Embiid doesn't seem to like doing that.

Phili need shooters and a much deeper bench. They've got no one beyond four of their starters, and a developing Shameet and Bolden. Their big three carries them hard.

obviously they wouldn't trade Simmons if Butler decides not to re-sign.

Davis prefers playing PF than C anyway, him and Embiid would be the scariest frontcourt in the league. Simmons has amazing potential, but he can't shoot, and may never be able to shoot - and besides, if it gets you one of the top 5 players in the league, you do it, and figure it out later.

that being said, i doubt it happens. but if Phili decided to trade Simmons, then it would trump whatever the Celtics have to offer, and obviously the Lakers too.

 

[Sarni]

Butler isn't going to stay IMO. You don't trade out one of the elite young talents when you're trying to build something.

Simmons, Butler and Embiid would fit better than Butler, Davis and Embiid anyway IMO.

Who handles the ball with the second three? Davis and Embiid occupy the same space on the court, unless you're pushing one out to the arc. Embiid doesn't seem to like doing that.

Phili need shooters and a much deeper bench. They've got no one beyond four of their starters, and a developing Shameet and Bolden. Their big three carries them hard.

Not a chance. Davis plays on the perimeter already, he can shoot and defend pretty much any position on the court, they'd be killing it inside and Butler would handle the ball much more than he does now. Add Redick and a semi-competent point guard that can shoot and this team is absolutely lethal.

If Butler does not stay they are fecked either way. They are fecked if he signs for 4 more years at a max too, though.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

No, they'll be able to build a deal easily. Davis is due to make $27.1million which means you need to send out between $21.7million and $33.4million. Brown/Tatum and Smart plus picks works just fine, Hayward plus picks works (don't see why NO would be interested in Hayward though), Horford plus picks work. There really are multiple deals they could make, they probably will need to include Smart.

Brown, Rozier and Smart works but they can't trade Rozier as he's expiring in the Summer.

Picks don't count towards salary matching purposes.

Alright, cheers for elaborate answers!

So if I understand it correctly, a deal with Brown, Smart, one more player, and a pick or two should be a legal trade?

 

[Sarni]

Alright, cheers for elaborate answers!

So if I understand it correctly, a deal with Brown, Smart, one more player, and a pick or two should be a legal trade?

Yes indeed.

BTW if we are talking Kings 2019 pick, they'd technically be trading player they select with that pick as they will only be able to trade for AD after they re-sign Kyrie which can be after July 1 (draft is before), so salary would count as it's already a selected player. Future picks won't count.

Let's say Kings get no. 11 pick and Bol Bol is selected, he would be making something like $3million. If Clippers pick does not end up in lottery they own that too - let's say they select Garland at 18, that's about $2million. Smart, Bol, Garland and Brown work, then they probably need to add Grizzlies pick.

I think NO will want Tatum badly though. Not sure if they can get him. I strongly believe Boston will put him on the table but I wouldn't bet my house on that.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Yes indeed.

BTW if we are talking Kings 2019 pick, they'd technically be trading player they select with that pick as they will only be able to trade for AD after they re-sign Kyrie which can be after July 1 (draft is before), so salary would count as it's already a selected player. Future picks won't count.

Let's say Kings get no. 11 pick and Bol Bol is selected, he would be making something like $3million. If Clippers pick does not end up in lottery they own that too - let's say they select Garland at 18, that's about $2million. Smart, Bol, Garland and Brown work, then they probably need to add Grizzlies pick.

I think NO will want Tatum badly though. Not sure if they can get him. I strongly believe Boston will put him on the table but I wouldn't bet my house on that.

Alright. That seems a better deal than what ever the Lakers can put together in the summer. And regarding Tatum, he even said that he'd trade himself for Davis if he was Ainge

 

[Fracture90]

Honestly can't see NOLA trading him this deadline unless the get some ridiculous offer, which I doubt they'll get considering not many teams will be willing to give away their assets for what potentially could end up being just a one year rental of AD.

Their best chance to get the most out of this situation is to wait until the summer when Boston will be allowed to make trades for AD.

 

[Fracture90]

Simmons, Butler and Embiid would fit better than Butler, Davis and Embiid anyway IMO.

This is interesting view, you can make the case for both sides. Simmons has no jumpshot and he's virtually presents no danger on the perimeter, hence why you can see teams doubling on Embiid often. Sure Simmons can drive and attack the rim but he won't draw out that many defenders, and that will possess a serious problem in the playoffs.

Now on the other hand, AD can space the floor, can shoot from any position on the field but he also likes to operate inside and can work in the paint where Embiid is doing the work. I suppose they can switch on 4 and 5 and make defense go nuts trying to scramble since both can shoot 3's.

 

[elmo]

They could do a lot worse than Ingram, Ball and a complementary piece imo.

That's probably one of the worst offers they'll get .

 

[Sarni]

Ball's trade value is IMO quite low now. If anyone is interesting on that Lakers young core team it's Kuzma... Ingram I could get on board with but also would not put too much value here.

Lakers could well have a lottery pick to offer at the end of season too.

 

[Revan]

Ball's trade value is IMO quite low now. If anyone is interesting on that Lakers young core team it's Kuzma... Ingram I could get on board with but also would not put too much value here.

Lakers could well have a lottery pick to offer at the end of season too.

I have seen pundits rate Ingram as the best of the three, but I agree that Kuzma is the best of them.

Saying that, Ingram and Lonzo are actually 2 years younger than Kuzma (yes, it is true), so maybe they'll get better than him in the future.

 

[adexkola]

I don't see Philly letting Simmons go, despite his shooting limitations.

 

[Sarni]

I have seen pundits rate Ingram as the best of the three, but I agree that Kuzma is the best of them.

Saying that, Ingram and Lonzo are actually 2 years younger than Kuzma (yes, it is true), so maybe they'll get better than him in the future.

Kuzma has high floor but also relatively low ceiling compared to other young players because of when he came to the league. He was NBA ready, much like someone like Brogdon, as he spent 4 years in college. The issue with players who spend 4 years in college is that they usually don't grow that much after coming into the league, the upside is not huge.

Then again Lillard spent 4 years in college too, got drafted at no. 6 and has significantly improved from his very good first season anyway.

 

[Bubz27]

I think people forget how young Ingram and Ball are sometimes. And Ball has high value as a defender. More consistency with his facilitating and confidence as a scorer is what he needs.

 

[RobinLFC]

Can't see us letting go of Kuzma, he's the future of the team if he keeps developing like he has been imo. Don't care too much about Ingram, he's a good option to have but not as good as you'd expect from a #2 pick. LeBron is getting on and won't be here forever, if he retires or gets worse in a few years, we'd be stuck with a prime Davis and some utility players to support him if we don't bring anyone in through free agency.

 

[Revan]

I think people forget how young Ingram and Ball are sometimes. And Ball has high value as a defender. More consistency with his facilitating and confidence as a scorer is what he needs.

2 years older than Doncic. Probably won't ever become as good as he is now.

 

[Fracture90]

Brandon '2 years away from being 2 years away' Ingram.

 

[Revan]

Can't see us letting go of Kuzma, he's the future of the team if he keeps developing like he has been imo. Don't care too much about Ingram, he's a good option to have but not as good as you'd expect from a #2 pick. LeBron is getting on and won't be here forever, if he retires or gets worse in a few years, we'd be stuck with a prime Davis and some utility players to support him if we don't bring anyone in through free agency.

I think that Lakers should wait and see if they can get one of Leonard, Thompson or Cousins in free agency, instead of gutting the team for AD.

 

[Fracture90]

I think that Lakers should wait and see if they can get one of Leonard, Thompson or Cousins in free agency, instead of gutting the team for AD.

Don't see them getting Kawhi, reports say he wants to run the team, not interested in being a 2nd string to LeBron, dunno if Warriors will want to let go of Thompson because after all his part of the original 3. Can see Lakers tempting one of the Snake, Boogie.

 

[RobinLFC]

I think that Lakers should wait and see if they can get one of Leonard, Thompson or Cousins in free agency, instead of gutting the team for AD.

That puts us in a precarious situation though since the Celtics and Sixers (if interested) have much better packages to offer to NOLA. However I can't really see them trading AD to us in the next week or so.

I thought Thompson was likely to stay and Leonard would rather go to the Clippers? Cousins would be nice but he's a tier below Davis for me.

 

[Revan]

Don't see them getting Kawhi, reports say he wants to run the team, not interested in being a 2nd string to LeBron, dunno if Warriors will want to let go of Thompson because after all his part of the original 3. Can see Lakers tempting one of the Snake, Boogie.

No way he is going to play second fiddle to LeBron. He thinks that he is better than LeBron (or at least he says so), and while they have good relations, he isn't going to another team to be No.2 option.

 

[Revan]

That puts us in a precarious situation though since the Celtics and Sixers (if interested) have much better packages to offer to NOLA. However I can't really see them trading AD to us in the next week or so.

I thought Thompson was likely to stay and Leonard would rather go to the Clippers? Cousins would be nice but he's a tier below Davis for me.

He is, but you don't need to trade two out of Lonzo, Ingram and Kuzma for him. Cousins < Davis but Cousins + Kuzma + Ball > Davis IMO.

 

[RobinLFC]

He is, but you don't need to trade two out of Lonzo, Ingram and Kuzma for him. Cousins < Davis but Cousins + Kuzma + Ball > Davis IMO.

Yes in that scenario I'd agree of course, I was more talking about a situation were we'd get Davis whilst keeping Kuzma.

Zubac
Davis
James
Kuzma
Rondo

Would be a great starting 5 for next season, although highly unlikely.

 

[Fracture90]

No way he is going to play second fiddle to LeBron. He thinks that he is better than LeBron (or at least he says so), and while they have good relations, he isn't going to another team to be No.2 option.

He said he's looking for the max money deal next and LAL can offer that to him.

 

[Bubz27]

2 years older than Doncic. Probably won't ever become as good as he is now.

Doncic is an exceptional player and an exception to the rule though. Most young players aren't as close to finished article as Doncic.

Out of interest, how many seasons did Doncic play in Europe?

 

[RobinLFC]

Doncic is an exceptional player and an exception to the rule though. Most young players aren't as close to finished article as Doncic.

Out of interest, how many seasons did Doncic play in Europe?

Made his debut during the 14/15 season right after he became 16 but he only played a handful of games. He's been a regular for Madrid since the 15/16 season right until his MVP season last year. All in all he played 3 full seasons.

 

[RobinLFC]

 

[Revan]

He said he's looking for the max money deal next and LAL can offer that to him.

Warriors are going to give him a max deal too. If he leaves them, it will be for some team where he'll be No.1, not for Lakers.

 

[Bubz27]

Made his debut during the 14/15 season right after he became 16 but he only played a handful of games. He's been a regular for Madrid since the 15/16 season right until his MVP season last year. All in all he played 3 full seasons.

So he's younger than Ball but played more? This is Ball's 2nd season.

 

[RobinLFC]

So he's younger than Ball but played more? This is Ball's 2nd season.

Yeah, 1.5 years younger but obviously circumstances were in his favour as well - made his professional debut aged 16 whilst Ball had to go through his freshman year in college first - he got drafted at the earliest moment possible if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Sarni]

Warriors are going to give him a max deal too. If he leaves them, it will be for some team where he'll be No.1, not for Lakers.

I don't know. He's desperate to win, extremely insecure and if he sees a team with LeBron and AD he might want to jump on that.

I think this move will actually prevent Durant from leaving Warriors though, if it happens. I was convinced he would leave and try to build a dynasty in New York (or Clippers) but with LeBron teaming up with AD he will be too scared to try and do something on his own and will probably prefer to remain in his comfort zone and collect 2-3 more rings.

I don't think Lakers will have cap room for another max player if they trade for AD now anyway.

 

[Sarni]

Yeah, 1.5 years younger but obviously circumstances were in his favour as well - made his professional debut aged 16 whilst Ball had to go through his freshman year in college first - he got drafted at the earliest moment possible if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, he was one and done at UCLA.

 

[Fracture90]

Warriors are going to give him a max deal too. If he leaves them, it will be for some team where he'll be No.1, not for Lakers.

Don't think Warriors will have that much money without dropping one of Green/Klay, and they're both part of the original drafted core.

 

[Revan]

I don't know. He's desperate to win, extremely insecure and if he sees a team with LeBron and AD he might want to jump on that.

I think this move will actually prevent Durant from leaving Warriors though, if it happens. I was convinced he would leave and try to build a dynasty in New York (or Clippers) but with LeBron teaming up with AD he will be too scared to try and do something on his own and will probably prefer to remain in his comfort zone and collect 2-3 more rings.

I don't think Lakers will have cap room for another max player if they trade for AD now anyway.

Dubs would still be better than Lakers, even if AD joins LeBron, so don't see him leaving. NY made sense as you said, for him to make his own team again, but not with a very strong Lakers in addition to Dubs. Even if Kyrie joins NY, not sure that him and Kyrie can match Dubs and Lakers.

 

[Revan]

Don't think Warriors will have that much money without dropping one of Green/Klay, and they're both part of the original drafted core.

Dubs GM has said that he is gonna give to KD what he wants. I think that they might find some workaround solution where they pay a lot of money in salary tax, but they would still be fine considering that they will open [Glaston] a new arena in San Francisco from next year [/Glaston], and they will be desperate to have Durant on the first year there.

 

[Bubz27]

Dubs would still be better than Lakers, even if AD joins LeBron, so don't see him leaving. NY made sense as you said, for him to make his own team again, but not with a very strong Lakers in addition to Dubs. Even if Kyrie joins NY, not sure that him and Kyrie can match Dubs and Lakers.

Dubs - KD < Lakers + AD and KD.

 

[Revan]

Dubs - KD < Lakers + AD and KD.

Of course, but I don't think that Lakers can afford all three of them. And considering how annoyed he was for being criticized on joining Dubs, not sure he will handle well joining Lakers.

 

[Bubz27]

Of course, but I don't think that Lakers can afford all three of them. And considering how annoyed he was for being criticized on joining Dubs, not sure he will handle well joining Lakers.

Yeah they can. Trade for AD and still have the space for a max in the summer I think.

For what it's worth, no chance it happens in my opinion. I don't even think Lakers will get AD. But it is in the realms of possibility.

 

[Sarni]

Don't think Warriors will have that much money without dropping one of Green/Klay, and they're both part of the original drafted core.

They will. Tax will be extreme but their revenue will allow them to cover it, with the new arena and all.

 

[Sarni]

Yeah they can. Trade for AD and still have the space for a max in the summer I think.

For what it's worth, no chance it happens in my opinion. I don't even think Lakers will get AD. But it is in the realms of possibility.

No. LeBron makes $37.4million next year, AD makes $28.1million. That's $65.5million for two players, there will be no room for another max deal.