NBA 2016-17

NM said:
How was that any different from LeBron joining Wade and Bosh in Miami though? I don't know enough about the cap to comment there.

They are well run and unselfish. I don't enjoy watching them play (prefer big Centers) but there's no denying they are unselfish and more than the sum of their parts - exactly how a sports team should be
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The biggest difference is that OKC were leading GSW 3-1, and should have beaten them and faced Cavs in the finals last year.
Had Cavs been that strong and had another all star player in the team in Westbrook, another fantastic big in Ibaka and a solid player in Adams, making it an overall pretty good platform for someone to go for a ring with, as their results show as well, then it would have gathered similar criticism. And, it's not like LeBron was let off lightly for that either, what KD has received is nothing compared to the criticism LeBron received during that move.
 
kouroux said:
I'm sorry that is some fecked up logic for me. You live for these moments of victories because you never how good it is until you don't have it anymore.
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Sure....but when the gaps a bit silly for whatever reasons depending on the sport, it's just not fun. I'm not in it purely for the thrill on winning, because that thrill doesn't exist if theres no competition. Otherwise I might as well just beat up the AI on easy relentlessly.

Just look at how good the NHL playoffs are almost every single year because theres very little in terms of a talent gap due to a super hard salary cap. Obviously franchises can still effortlessly make it work, and the Dubs would most likely be one of those in the NBA, hell they'd likely thrive more...but still, it allows for fairer pool across the board with very little loop holes, though nothing can stop someone wanting to take a pay cut....until they can!
 
Zen said:
Sure....but when the gaps a bit silly for whatever reasons depending on the sport, it's just not fun. I'm not in it purely for the thrill on winning, because that thrill doesn't exist if theres no competition. Otherwise I might as well just beat up the AI on easy relentlessly.

Just look at how good the NHL playoffs are almost every single year because theres very little in terms of a talent gap due to a super hard salary cap. Obviously franchises can still effortlessly make it work, and the Dubs would most likely be one of those in the NBA, hell they'd likely thrive more...but still, it allows for fairer pool across the board with very little loop holes, though nothing can stop someone wanting to take a pay cut....until they can!
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Different mindsets I suppose. From a neutral POV I understand wanting excitment but from the wnning team's POV, I'd say feck it. I would want my team to win as many trophies as possible and set records that will be unbeaten. If I want excitment, I'll watch a sports as a neutral or play myself.
 
Zen said:
Sure....but when the gaps a bit silly for whatever reasons depending on the sport, it's just not fun. I'm not in it purely for the thrill on winning, because that thrill doesn't exist if theres no competition. Otherwise I might as well just beat up the AI on easy relentlessly.

Just look at how good the NHL playoffs are almost every single year because theres very little in terms of a talent gap due to a super hard salary cap. Obviously franchises can still effortlessly make it work, and the Dubs would most likely be one of those in the NBA, hell they'd likely thrive more...but still, it allows for fairer pool across the board with very little loop holes, though nothing can stop someone wanting to take a pay cut....until they can!
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That is more because there is much less scoring Hockey. Since there is so much scoring in Basketball it gives more opportunity for the more talented team to overwhelm the less talented team. Also star players in Basketball have more of an effect than star players do in any other sport. And star players in Basketball rarely leave the court star Hockey players play about 1/3 of the game.
 
Moby said:
The biggest difference is that OKC were leading GSW 3-1, and should have beaten them and faced Cavs in the finals last year.
Had Cavs been that strong and had another all star player in the team in Westbrook, another fantastic big in Ibaka and a solid player in Adams, making it an overall pretty good platform for someone to go for a ring with, as their results show as well, then it would have gathered similar criticism. And, it's not like LeBron was let off lightly for that either, what KD has received is nothing compared to the criticism LeBron received during that move.
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Some context might be in order here, LeBron fecked over his hometown live on national TV on a much anticipated "The Decision" which makes it entirely different circumstances than how Durant joined the Warriors. And all that "they were 3-1 up agaisnt the Warriors last year as well" is total bullshit, OKC wouldn't have stand the slightest chance against them this season and probably in seasons to come. Durant wanted to win rings, just like James and countless others, you can't blame him for that. Neither can you blame the Warriors for accepting him on the team when he wanted to join them.

Zen said:
Well it was a selfish move by KD....OKC had just taken GSW to 7 in a series they should of won, and he just kinda fecked them off for the easy ring instead. And yes, that's no different to what LeBron did either, but at least in his case, it was the easiest ring in NBA history. But I give them credit, Stephs taken on cheap contracts for years, he's a super classy guy, and deserves his max payment....for which KD will step aside from having a max one to allow.

I kinda hate the obsession with rings and shit in American sports really, especially more recently now everyone has a voice, it drives this. You know, players like Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Nash, Miller, Ewing, Iverson etc aren't thought of as anything less than they should of been because they didn't win them. And that's partially because none of them chased until well past their prime. Though given some of the shit Paul gets, maybe you just get away with it any more....despite the fact that everything suggests Paul is well a top 5 player of his generation, and his standards don't drop in the playoffs, a single player just can't do everything. I wouldn't blame him for whatever he does this summer. Personally I still Gary Peyton as ringless, who the hell even remembers he was on that Heat team?
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It matters, that's simply how it is. For many, that's the deciding factor in the Brady-Manning debate for example, and I think it's valid, especially for a QB which is a position so important that it can influence or transform a whole franchise. Less so in football, but I understand why rings are important to people, not only in America. Iverson is rightfully looked at as a great player in his prime but can you imagine what his status would be if he took one or two rings off the '00-'02 Lakers? A lot higher than it currently is. Stockton was up against Jordan of course, but if the Jazz took two or three titles away from those Bulls, Stockton would also be regarded a lot higher and Jordan definitely wouldn't be the undisputed GOAT.
 
RobinLFC said:
Some context might be in order here, LeBron fecked over his hometown live on national TV on a much anticipated "The Decision" which makes it entirely different circumstances than how Durant joined the Warriors. And all that "they were 3-1 up agaisnt the Warriors last year as well" is total bullshit, OKC wouldn't have stand the slightest chance against them this season and probably in seasons to come. Durant wanted to win rings, just like James and countless others, you can't blame him for that. Neither can you blame the Warriors for accepting him on the team when he wanted to join them.


It matters, that's simply how it is. For many, that's the deciding factor in the Brady-Manning debate for example, and I think it's valid, especially for a QB which is a position so important that it can influence or transform a whole franchise. Less so in football, but I understand why rings are important to people, not only in America. Iverson is rightfully looked at as a great player in his prime but can you imagine what his status would be if he took one or two rings off the '00-'02 Lakers? A lot higher than it currently is. Stockton was up against Jordan of course, but if the Jazz took two or three titles away from those Bulls, Stockton would also be regarded a lot higher and Jordan definitely wouldn't be the undisputed GOAT.
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What gives you that impression?
 
ZDwyr said:
What gives you that impression?
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The way they're playing right now? Warriors were a lot less strong last season after their 73-9 record chase, and even then OKC managed to feck it up. There's no one in this league capable of beating them right now, and neither would Durant-Westbrook be with a supporting cast of Kanter, Adams and others.
 
I love basketball but this has been the worst season of NBA in my lifetime I think (apart from the lockout semi seasons).
 
RobinLFC said:
The way they're playing right now? Warriors were a lot less strong last season after their 73-9 record chase, and even then OKC managed to feck it up. There's no one in this league capable of beating them right now, and neither would Durant-Westbrook be with a supporting cast of Kanter, Adams and others.
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The Warriors wouldn't be as strong if they didn't have Durant though? He's kinda made a difference..

Thunder would have added Horford too, at the expense of Kanter. And had Oladipo coming off the bench. Would have been a very, very strong Thunder team.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
The regular season was really good. And all series not involving the Cavs or Warriors were competitive.
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See, I'd beg to differ. Obviously there was certain games which were awesome but when you look at the sub plots and how they petered out, there wasn't much exciting things happening.

The standard in the other playoff series was very low. Even teams like the Raptors and Bucks who were expected to be exciting and a breath of fresh air fizzled out into nothing.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
That is more because there is much less scoring Hockey. Since there is so much scoring in Basketball it gives more opportunity for the more talented team to overwhelm the less talented team. Also star players in Basketball have more of an effect than star players do in any other sport. And star players in Basketball rarely leave the court star Hockey players play about 1/3 of the game.
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On related note..
 
In all fairness, the Thunder still would of gone in as massive underdogs. I mean the Warriors were favourites the win this title straight after the game 7 loss, not the Cavs....the Durant move just made them odds on. But you know, that was OKC's best ever post-season, regardless of them making the finals a few years back to be swept aside by LeBron....I would of liked them(KD and Russ) to go one more time at least with what moves they could of done.

Winning does matter, but in context, and I certainly drop a mark or two on Stockton-Malone as they DEFINITELY should of won one, they had a 6 year window, 3 of which had no Peak Jordan(well half of 1995), and Malone went to the Lakers, so make that three marks for him! But you know shit happens, their both legendary still. But on the others, as proven by witnessing one of LeBron's greatest performances being rendered meaningless last night...theres only so much a player can, CP3 has amazing postseason stats, but no ring or hell even a conference finals, not his fault, yet he's plenty are claiming he should take a monster pay cut just for the small chance at standing any chance of getting near GSW....makes no difference to how he should be viewed in 20 years time.
 
The way I see it, the next two seasons are done anyway. You may as well give title to Warriors. But after that, it's all open because Thompson or Green might not resign there if they cannot get a max deal, Curry might decline after 30, some other teams might develop to an extent where they are competitive... Won't be until 2019-20 that the league is truly competitive again though. Durant won't walk away from almost certain rings. That's why I am not fond of Portland moving their picks for average players, I think with the way this draft looks you need to make sure you get the best possible value and try to build on that. It's players like Tatum, Isaac, Fultz and Fox who might be cornerstones of the next great teams in 4-5 years.

There are injuries though, and this could change the picture fast.
 
Zen said:
In all fairness, the Thunder still would of gone in as massive underdogs. I mean the Warriors were favourites the win this title straight after the game 7 loss, not the Cavs....the Durant move just made them odds on. But you know, that was OKC's best ever post-season, regardless of them making the finals a few years back to be swept aside by LeBron....I would of liked them(KD and Russ) to go one more time at least with what moves they could of done.

Winning does matter, but in context, and I certainly drop a mark or two on Stockton-Malone as they DEFINITELY should of won one, they had a 6 year window, 3 of which had no Peak Jordan(well half of 1995), and Malone went to the Lakers, so make that three marks for him! But you know shit happens, their both legendary still. But on the others, as proven by witnessing one of LeBron's greatest performances being rendered meaningless last night...theres only so much a player can, CP3 has amazing postseason stats, but no ring or hell even a conference finals, not his fault, yet he's plenty are claiming he should take a monster pay cut just for the small chance at standing any chance of getting near GSW....makes no difference to how he should be viewed in 20 years time.
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On another note.... Stockton > CP3.
 
Stanzin Lama said:
On related note..
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Great video, enjoyed that. But as seems to be covered in the comments, it doesn't remotely take into account salary caps, or more precisely the fact that the NBA's is far softer than others, thus allowing skill to be more top heavy as opposed to more spread out in other team sports. Obviously PL aside. But I'm not disputing the outcome, due to well other aspects pointed out.
 
Zen said:
Great video, enjoyed that. But as seems to be covered in the comments, it doesn't remotely take into account salary caps, or more precisely the fact that the NBA's is far softer than others, thus allowing skill to be more top heavy as opposed to more spread out in other team sports. Obviously PL aside. But I'm not disputing the outcome, due to well other aspects pointed out.
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I wasn't a basketball fan till very recently but these days it really fascinates me. The way you can analyse a basketball game to improve the overall performance is truly amazing. I don't think any other team sport's outcome can be "controlled" the way it can be done in basketball. Talking about analyses, whatever happened to those amazing data that @Eboue used to put up till last season?
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
On another note.... Stockton > CP3.
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Absolutely. The only question is how does he compare with Nash, Kidd and Thomas. I think that Steph is already in the discussion for the second best PG of all time (not including Oscar who was a million years ago).
 
Revan said:
Absolutely. The only question is how does he compare with Nash, Kidd and Thomas. I think that Steph is already in the discussion for the second best PG of all time (not including Oscar who was a million years ago).
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That's a good question. You could argue the case for nearly all of those guys. I still find it funny that as a Knicks fan we got Kidd at the end of the career and he was still the best PG we have had in around 15 years.
 
That is a demoralizing lose for the Cavs. Lebron and Kyrie played great. JR showed up. Love was handling business on the boards and defensively and they still lost.
 
Zen said:
Le sigh. As a neutral, it's pretty embarrassing to see such a mismatch. I don't think you can get a better performance as pair than LeBron-Kyrie put up today and it was deserving to win legit any games, but yeah, GSW ridiculous talent depth allowed them to steal it...it'll be the least celebrated title in history I think.

The game was really really good too, but just ended in a what's the point.
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Yeah. I mean, congratulations to the Warriors fans and Bay transplant fecks, but otherwise, meh.

If KD needed a ring for personal reasons, it was his absolute right to go to the best team in the league and do what was best for him. I also have the right to call it a bitch move. Which it was. Way worse than LeBron's.
 
Some of the hate GS get is weird. Its like they are being hated because their players are playing good team basketball. They are not undefeatable. Cavs probably lost the game themselves letting GSW go on a 11-0 run to end it.
It isn't such a big mismatch. KLove was cold from beyond the arc, if he was hot Cavs would have won it easily. GSW are just a better team.
 
adexkola said:
Yeah. I mean, congratulations to the Warriors fans and Bay transplant fecks, but otherwise, meh.

If KD needed a ring for personal reasons, it was his absolute right to go to the best team in the league and do what was best for him. I also have the right to call it a bitch move. Which it was. Way worse than LeBron's.
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Yeah. LeBron went to a new superteam to play with Wade and Bosh and compete against other great teams. I saw this comparison, probably even on here, that what Durant did was equivalent of LeBron moving to Celtics back then. Durant went to the best or second best team in the league when it was clear they'd have become by far the best with him.

I liked the league more when he was at Thunder, infinitely. I also got the feeling a lot of teams will feel like they are incapable of winning for the next 2-3 years and won't be making tough moves to get much better now, which is going to make it even less interesting. I mean, why would Celtcis give up their picks to get George or Butler when even with them they cannot win? If Durant stays at Thunder, they might make that move. Right now I don't think anyone, maybe Cavs aside, will fancy themselves to beat Warriors while their big 4 are there. Even Spurs, despite being up by 25 points, had to surrender.
 
I really really hope the Cavs can at least win Game 4 so the Warriors don't break the Lakers 15-1 postseason record.
 
OB said:
Some of the hate GS get is weird. Its like they are being hated because their players are playing good team basketball. They are not undefeatable. Cavs probably lost the game themselves letting GSW go on a 11-0 run to end it.
It isn't such a big mismatch. KLove was cold from beyond the arc, if he was hot Cavs would have won it easily. GSW are just a better team.
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Nah, I just hate Draymond and I don't like how huge their bandwagon is. I actually liked them at the beginning, ca. 2014 when I got back to following NBA they were one of the teams I liked the most but right now it's unbearable. I like them as a franchise, if you removed Green and Durant, and kept Curry and Thompson, I'd actually go back to properly liking them.
 
RobinLFC said:
I really really hope the Cavs can at least win Game 4 so the Warriors don't break the Lakers 15-1 postseason record.
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I think with the win last night, Cavs would tie this in the next game but with that defeat, Warriors have a great chance to sweep.
 
OB said:
It isn't such a big mismatch. KLove was cold from beyond the arc, if he was hot Cavs would have won it easily. GSW are just a better team.
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Well, then, it is a mistmatch or it isn't? Of course they are better team, no one is denying that. It seems at times they barely have to try, and yet just to get within distance of yes what should of been a probable victory, the Cavs needed two of the best performances LeBron and Kyrie have ever put up....also the refs clearly helped out the Cavs a bit -_-

Neutral said:
Steph Curry finally plays like a MVP in a finals and his performance in this series is being overshadowed by KD....
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....and LeBron. But all three have been tremendous. It'd just add insult to injury if LeBron kept up his triple double on .500+ though. But he can't throw it in, he can't just let them have the sweep. I also don't think he has it in him to 'give up' anymore after 2009/10.
 
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Sarni said:
Nah, I just hate Draymond and I don't like how huge their bandwagon is. I actually liked them at the beginning, ca. 2014 when I got back to following NBA they were one of the teams I liked the most but right now it's unbearable. I like them as a franchise, if you removed Green and Durant, and kept Curry and Thompson, I'd actually go back to properly liking them.
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I actually like their team (sans Durant). Draymond's fire is refreshing in today's climate. I also love their fans (the ones who stuck with them from the beginning, not the uber rich fecks who Uber from San Fransisco)
 
kouroux said:
How will the Cavs play mentally in this 4th game, surely they cannot believe it's doable anymore can they ?
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Basically they have to take the Boston Red Sox approach when they were 3 games to 0 down to the Yankees. One have the attitude that if they do not beat us tonight, then we are coming back and winning this. Now it might not help at all to have that attitude, but that is how they have to start. The obvious stuff about every game being do or die, backs against the wall, have to play each game like their is no tomorrow, blah blah blah
 
adexkola said:
I actually like their team (sans Durant). Draymond's fire is refreshing in today's climate. I also love their fans (the ones who stuck with them from the beginning, not the uber rich fecks who Uber from San Fransisco)
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I like Curry and Thompson, like Iguodala too. Green is a bit of an idiot, I could perhaps warm to him if I were their fan. As I said, I actually liked them even last season before our series against them, that's when I started disliking them.

The bolded also correct. They had some great support when they were shit and are one of the loudest arenas in the NBA. I just hate that it seems 50% of it is now filled with people who started following them in 2015.
 
OB said:
Some of the hate GS get is weird. Its like they are being hated because their players are playing good team basketball. They are not undefeatable. Cavs probably lost the game themselves letting GSW go on a 11-0 run to end it.
It isn't such a big mismatch. KLove was cold from beyond the arc, if he was hot Cavs would have won it easily. GSW are just a better team.
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This is the big one for me. Are they brilliant? Yes. Does that mean they're invincible and every other team should just lie down for the next 3 years and accept it? Come on now. This is sports, the whole point is that anything can happen. If odds were everything in sport then Mourinho's Inter never beat Barca, Leicester didn't win the EPL etc etc. Give GSW credit for bringing innovation to the game in a way nobody was prepared for, then find a way to be better. If that's not your attitude as an athlete then you're in the wrong line of work.
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
See, I'd beg to differ. Obviously there was certain games which were awesome but when you look at the sub plots and how they petered out, there wasn't much exciting things happening.

The standard in the other playoff series was very low. Even teams like the Raptors and Bucks who were expected to be exciting and a breath of fresh air fizzled out into nothing.
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I think the average NBA game now is much better than it was in the "Iso era" I grew up with. The Nets were the only really pointless team this season. Every other team were either good or had an exciting player to watch.
 
Stanzin Lama said:
I wasn't a basketball fan till very recently but these days it really fascinates me. The way you can analyse a basketball game to improve the overall performance is truly amazing. I don't think any other team sport's outcome can be "controlled" the way it can be done in basketball. Talking about analyses, whatever happened to those amazing data that @Eboue used to put up till last season?
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You mean the offensive/defensive efficiency ones or the true shooting / usage rate ones?
 
I hate the whole bandwagon thing people always come up with, the fact is that when you start to follow a new league then obviously a lot of people are attracted to the best teams and the players. If you don't mind small ball then in the last few years Warriors have played a basketball which is pleasing to the eye while having a superstar like Steph so it is obvious that a lot of new people would start liking them. It is not really different to people who became United fans around the time of the treble
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I hate the whole bandwagon thing people always come up with, the fact is that when you start to follow a new league then obviously a lot of people are attracted to the best teams and the players. If you don't mind small ball then in the last few years Warriors have played a basketball which is pleasing to the eye while having a superstar like Steph so it is obvious that a lot of new people would start liking them. It is not really different to people who became United fans around the time of the treble
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Bandwagon fans deserve all the flack thrown at them until proven otherwise.

I remember how many Heat fans there used to be 5 years ago. Suddenly they all disappeared, and re-emerged as Warriors/Cavs fans. Eff that.

If you become a fan of the Warriors smallball or whatever, but stick with them when they get old and sink into lottery status, then fair enough, but until then, it's hard not to tar such a person with the other glory hunters.
 
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