NBA 2015-2016
- Thread starter Eboue
- Start date
That Kobe's defensive ability was being ignored.
You forgot 2007.
What did I forget and why are you so condescending? He didn't have terrible teammates in 07, he had pau freaking gasol
Sorry meant 2006.
Why do you assume I'm being condescending? Is it condescending when I'm proving you wrong with your ridiculous statements about Kobe being a worse defender then Allen, Bowen, Kidd, Artest, and Paul?
They aren't the criticisms, I don't know anyone who thinks Kobe was terrible at either. Lebron is just far superior at both, which the stats clearly back up.
If your way of proving someone wrong is a highlight video on youtube one could say it is pretty condescending to the person you are arguing with.
If the best argument you can come up with is by saying:
I'd say that's really condescending/obtuse.
I don't plan on drawing this Kobe v. Lebron argument out ad nauseum, so I'm just going to leave it by saying they're both all time greats. Anyone who wants to duke it out by saying either is better than the other ought to pause hitting that "Post Reply" button and take LeBron's advice.
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Kidd took a woeful Nets side to consecutive Finals appearances. So one can bang on LBJ and his merry cast of Hughes and whatnot circa 2007, but Kidd did the same (twice) with a worse squad and didn't possess the overall talent of LBJ that won games on his own.
Gasol didn't arrive in LA until Feb 2008. The Lakers did make the playoffs in 2005-06 and 2006-07, going out in the first round both years.
I know how you love facts.
Gasol didn't arrive in LA until Feb 2008. The Lakers did make the playoffs in 2005-06 and 2006-07, going out in the first round both years.
I know how you love facts.
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Someone should probably start a new NBA thread, what with the draft being in 2 days.
Forgot to add - The Lakers went to the Finals that season they acquired Gasol, losing to Boston in six games (Bynum missed that series as well). Kobe was league MVP.
They won the next two championships.
They won the next two championships.
What? That team had Jefferson, Mutumbo, Kittes and Martin.
Fair enough. Kittles was average; Martin was solid defensively and I believe this was right about the time he hit his peak years.
Mutombo arrived in 02-03 at the ripe age of 36 and missed a lot of games, Collins starting frequently; Jefferson - first two years in the league and he looked like a future all-star in year two. But only Kidd made any All-Star and All-NBA selections both years. Jefferson did make All-Rookie 2nd team in 01-02.
The 01-02 side was very average with no player topping 15 ppg and only four over 10 ppg. They were very good defensively. They did have an overrated Van Horn that season but shipped him out afterwards.
They were certainly a better side the next season despite winning three less games.
Mutombo arrived in 02-03 at the ripe age of 36 and missed a lot of games, Collins starting frequently; Jefferson - first two years in the league and he looked like a future all-star in year two. But only Kidd made any All-Star and All-NBA selections both years. Jefferson did make All-Rookie 2nd team in 01-02.
The 01-02 side was very average with no player topping 15 ppg and only four over 10 ppg. They were very good defensively. They did have an overrated Van Horn that season but shipped him out afterwards.
They were certainly a better side the next season despite winning three less games.
Firstly, Jordan wasn't even the best perimeter defender then when he was at his peak.
Secondly, LeBron, Kawhi, Artest, Bowen and Tony Allen have all been better defenders than Kobe.
Kobe when locked in was an excellent defender. Kind of what LeBron has become now. But that phase post Shaq and pre-Pau, he used to take so many possessions off and gamble on so many possessions. Also, a lot of those All-Defensive First Team selections were simply based on reputation and not the performances. If the media had voted then like they do now, Kobe wouldn't have received half of them. But since the coaches did, they valued his previous impact and reputation while doing so.
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Ironically Warriors loss in the final might have given them a shot at Durant. If they'd won he would see no challenge in joining reigning champions, now it'd be more of a task. However their near defeat to Thunder and defeat to Cavaliers could have also convinced him to stay and try to win with Thunder. They're a player away from being proper force.
On another subject, the team I like for the mid-term future (3-4 years from now) and have a huge massive soft spot for are Milwaukee Bucks. They have one of the most promising if not the most promising wings in the league in Giannis and Parker, they have a talented shooter in Middleton and a good #10 pick in this draft that could land them a big they badly need (Poeltl is their pick in mock draft). They need a better PG if Giannis stays at SF although I believe Giannis will be their PG of the future so that will open up a space at SF (they could land Jaylen Brown in the draft if Poeltl doesn't work out). They're building a new arena which should be open for 2018-19 too. They're not a big market but just like I cheer for Portland who are a small market team with passionate fan base, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for the Bucks.
Good article in The Guardian putting LeBron's case forward as being the greatest ever. Interesting assessment all the same.
I think that Kobe was a very good passer, but who hated passing. Maybe cause he had shit teammates (from the time Shaq left to the time Pau came), maybe for some other reasons, but he didn't pass the ball much. When he passed it though, he was good at it (nowhere as good as LeBron though).
Kobe was a fantastic defender. The best defender of perimeter I have seen (Kawhi can change things though). You don't get second in all time of NBA defensive team by not being near as good at defending as James.
Kobe was a fantastic defender. The best defender of perimeter I have seen (Kawhi can change things though). You don't get second in all time of NBA defensive team by not being near as good at defending as James.
Wonder if @Raoul read it. I did, thought it was ridiculous and an overreaction.
There's no way he's GOAT. Greatest in the NBA right now perhaps but GOAT is laughable.
If Lebron wins another two rings for the Cavs I think he should be in contention for GOAT, but otherwise I'd agree, still a tier below the likes of Jordan, Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabbar et al.
I find it so weird that a team can basically go unbeaten all year and still now win anything. The playoff system is crazy to me!
I cant imagine a team like the invincibles then losing the play off and not getting the Premier League.
I cant imagine a team like the invincibles then losing the play off and not getting the Premier League.
2 days until Free Agency, hoping it won't be a complete anti-climax for Blazers. The need is obvious, a defensively solid center who's also a threat around the post. Three players from the top tier who fit the bill are RFAs: Whiteside, Howard and Horford. Rumours are that Whiteside will visit Portland first in free agency and he wants to make a decision early so I hope Olshey can pitch Blazers to him. It's apparently between Lakers, Miami and Portland. If he's after success on the court then Portland definitely makes the most sense at the moment, strong & young backcourt, top coach, good culture and a good season last year. Miami are a bit behind because they probably cannot give him max now.
Lakers will be difficult to compete with even if they are completely shite at the minute. They're a big market and the lure is strong.
Horford I think stays with Atlanta and Howard will probably go to Knicks. After those three he drop in quality is big: Mahinmi, Biyombo, Ezeli. Not sure any of them is needed.
Durant will stay at OKC, I cannot see him moving yet.
Lakers will be difficult to compete with even if they are completely shite at the minute. They're a big market and the lure is strong.
Horford I think stays with Atlanta and Howard will probably go to Knicks. After those three he drop in quality is big: Mahinmi, Biyombo, Ezeli. Not sure any of them is needed.
Durant will stay at OKC, I cannot see him moving yet.
I love American sports but I agree! Always makes me laugh with rugby, the Super League in England, at the end of the 'season' the team at the top gets the 'League Leaders Shield'. So you wouldn't be crazy to think ok they're the best team and they've won it but no, they then have to go and win more games despite having proven themselves the best team over the course of the season. I can see both sides, they are exciting but on the other hand all it takes is one injury to a star player and it becomes not so fair.
I like it to be honest. It's not really much different to how Champions League works in football, you play one stage, get promoted to another and then it's a knockout.
Basketball would be extremely boring in the NBA if you just stuck to league standings as final decider. After 50 games there'd be 28 teams with nothing to play for.
To be fair though there's nothing stopping the NBA having a divisional structure like we do in English football. And the reason for what you say is because of the insistence on 82 game regular season which is frankly an absurd amount of games!
Why's it absurd? And a divisional structure won't work in the NBA - teams can change their fortunes pretty quickly in the NBA. There's not a status quo which dominates the Premier League for the most part. Cleveland went from a lottery team, to then being the number 2 seed in the east and making the NBA finals.
Well they can't because the idea is that all teams have an equal chance to compete. You don't even see any financial disparity between clubs, they're all working under the same salary cap and have the same amount of money to spend. Teams frequently go from the worst to the best and the other way around.
There's nothing wrong with how NBA works in terms of game structure. Not everything has to be exactly like football.
It's absurd when you compare it to a 38 game Premier League season - over twice as many games and then the playoffs. I just think it's a bit of overkill the amount of games you have, not just in basketball but ice hockey & baseball too. I don't think the fans would feel short changed getting 'only' 40-50 games per regular season.
So everything has be exactly like Premier League, otherwise it's absurd. I understand now.
Basketball is a lot less physically demanding than football too which seems to be lost on some people.
Yep and games are 48 minutes long out of which plenty of players could easily sit out at least 15 of them.
The Knicks strategy of signing busted flushes (Rose, Howard) to play with another (Melo) isn't going to work, is it?
Has Howard officially signed for them? And it might work, with Porzingis and them being talented players you never know.
He has not.
And the argument of talented players, none of them have looked any where near their top level for 3 or 4 years.
Still the Knicks would have 4 very good players that can click or regain form, I just said you never know what can happen but I agree that I can't see it happen.
Why did dwight walk away from $23m? He could've got a decent contract next season too on top of that? Or he just doesn't trust his body to hold up?
I think the Rockets made sure he goes by hiring D'Antonie