Nba 2011-2012

ha_rooney said:
Why are people making a race issue about Lin? I read a couple of articles and 1 guy on ESPN America was saying nobody would care about Lin if he wasn't Asian. He's a very good player and his race should not be a factor in determining his impact on this Knicks team.
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Come on...of course race is an issue. What do you think is the stereotype of a Asian is in the US?

Good students who drive rice burners, and the women are ALL horrible drivers.

Here is a guy who is bucking that trend, and playing in what is arguably the most important/influential position.

It is a BIG deal.
 
>smart player >endless turnovers

pick one.

still a good player though, but he's no Chris Paul(or even close), let's overrate his Basketball IQ just because he went to Harvard.
 
Neutral said:
Woah...Woah...Woah.

Are you really blaming the Knicks for the flop? :nono:

That was without a doubt started by Vlade Divac. He would have gone down if little Muggsy Bogues touched him.
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Well, there have probably been a few individual floppers before that Knicks team, Divac was certainly one. But what really bothered me was how the whole team did it constantly, and the way the scooted themselves across the floor every time. You'd have plays where three Knicks were pushing themselves across the floor in different directions, it looked like some sort of modern dance.

And of course I'm a Lakers fan so Divac's flops didn't bother me so much.
 
Do wonder how he would be playing (or played) with the likes of Golden State or Houston...

Also the Mavs and a couple other clubs had tried to sign him out of college. Just imagine - would he be putting up these numbers for Dallas?

If not, is it simply the system?
 
TBF you could say that about any team and its star point guard. Which implies that Lin is actually that good. Which means that MM's (and pretty much everyone else's) is an interesting question, isn't it.

On the one hand, no team will ever ever be able to break ranks and come out to say they opted against him due to anything other than basketball reasons.

On the other hand - and this is the mother of all other hands - he didn't get this good overnight. Those teams all had interest because of his high-school/college performances and the fact that he's a proven winner.

So it calls into question all the above teams' motivations when they decided against him. Their default position has been that he wasn't good enough. Better to imply that you, a professional basketball organization couldn't accurately judge a player than to imply that you released him for 'other' reasons. (We're not even talking Evil McRacist blatant ones. Subtle ones like 'will the other players respect him', 'how much will cultural/religious issues affect the team', etc. etc.)

Most of them have their 'we already had our starting guard inked to a long-term deal' excuses. According to a Marc Stein scoop even the Knicks were 100% set on releasing him up to the day before his breakout performance.

Regarding the 'system' issue, personally I think it was just a perfect storm of basketball situations. PG-starved team gets injuries to all its ball-hogs and subsequently all the capable 'role players' go into overdrive as they get to feel like they're contributing. That plus oppositions' game plans went out the window. Plus, of course, Lin actually being good.
 
H-wig, according to wiki, a handful of clubs bid for him out of college but he took the home-town offer (Golden State). The Mavs were the only club that invited him to participate in the Summer League. It also claims the Lakers made an offer that summer. Imagine him with Kobe et al at the moment, assuming his performances are anywhere similar in that system.

Jeremy Lin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
MrMarcello said:
H-wig, according to wiki, a handful of clubs bid for him out of college but he took the home-town offer (Golden State). The Mavs were the only club that invited him to participate in the Summer League. It also claims the Lakers made an offer that summer. Imagine him with Kobe et al at the moment, assuming his performances are anywhere similar in that system.

Jeremy Lin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I'm sure every Laker fan has been doing exactly that with our joke of a PG situation.
 
hungrywing said:
TBF you could say that about any team and its star point guard. Which implies that Lin is actually that good. Which means that MM's (and pretty much everyone else's) is an interesting question, isn't it.

On the one hand, no team will ever ever be able to break ranks and come out to say they opted against him due to anything other than basketball reasons.

On the other hand - and this is the mother of all other hands - he didn't get this good overnight. Those teams all had interest because of his high-school/college performances and the fact that he's a proven winner.

So it calls into question all the above teams' motivations when they decided against him. Their default position has been that he wasn't good enough. Better to imply that you, a professional basketball organization couldn't accurately judge a player than to imply that you released him for 'other' reasons. (We're not even talking Evil McRacist blatant ones. Subtle ones like 'will the other players respect him', 'how much will cultural/religious issues affect the team', etc. etc.)

Most of them have their 'we already had our starting guard inked to a long-term deal' excuses. According to a Marc Stein scoop even the Knicks were 100% set on releasing him up to the day before his breakout performance.

Regarding the 'system' issue, personally I think it was just a perfect storm of basketball situations. PG-starved team gets injuries to all its ball-hogs and subsequently all the capable 'role players' go into overdrive as they get to feel like they're contributing. That plus oppositions' game plans went out the window. Plus, of course, Lin actually being good.
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There seems to be an unspoken rule these days to pick athleticism over skill, his lack of quickness is pretty much the only knock I remember hearing about him when explaining the lack of interest.

It really is hard to recruit for court vision, especially because Lin has never gotten to play with such talented teammates. The pick and roll is only that dominant with a big man who can run it as well as the guard, and Chandler, and now Amare, are the first great bigs he's played with. Lets not forget the Championships the Spurs recently won pretty much exclusively with the pick and roll, not to mention many others.

They were aware that his passing was his best asset, but I don't think they were aware he is a top level passer. There's really nothing better in basketball than a point guard, kinda like Xavi, who controls everything with his passing and ability to see all the openings. Recognizing that before giving someone a shot in the team is a hell of a task.

The Lakers apparently tried to claim him off waivers from the Warriors and Rockets, but because of the waiver rules giving the player to the team who wants him with the worst record, he went to the Rockets and Knicks respectively. Not sure who else tried in those instances.

As far as him being Asian, if they thought he was good enough they would be morons not to realize the PR that would generate and interest from Asian, I'd think they would be more likely to draft Lin because he's Asian, not the other way around.
 
By the way, why are good point guards so difficult for the teams to spot in the draft? Rondo? Cole? Lin?
 
Lin is something of a defensive liability, I'm not eager to see how Rose or Westbrook will abuse him. His opposing PGs on this streak have had some impressive games.

Derron Williams 21pts-11ast-6 re's, 3 steals
Harris 9-4-3, 2 steals
John Wall, 29-6-1, 2 steals
Steve Blake 6-3-2, 3 steals
Rubio 12-8-2, 3 steals
Calderon 25-9-7, 3 steals
Tyreke Evans 19-5-4, 2 steals
 
gooDevil said:
Lin is something of a defensive liability, I'm not eager to see how Rose or Westbrook will abuse him. His opposing PGs on this streak have had some impressive games.

Derron Williams 21pts-11ast-6 re's, 3 steals
Harris 9-4-3, 2 steals
John Wall, 29-6-1, 2 steals
Steve Blake 6-3-2, 3 steals
Rubio 12-8-2, 3 steals
Calderon 25-9-7, 3 steals
Tyreke Evans 19-5-4, 2 steals
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I don't consider Westbrook to be up with the best point guards in the league.

Paul
Rose
Rondo
Williams
Nash
Parker
Ellis
Curry
Kidd

I would have any one of the above PG's over Westbrook.
 
The All Star dunk contest is going to be so lame this year with Shumpert, Budinger, Paul George and Derrick Williams participating.
 
RDCR07 said:
I don't consider Westbrook to be up with the best point guards in the league.

Paul
Rose
Rondo
Williams
Nash
Parker
Ellis
Curry
Kidd

I would have any one of the above PG's over Westbrook.
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Really? I think Westbrook's stepped it up this year and is playing much better. He can be a bit too greedy at times but at his age he has shown he has a lot of quality and is only going to get better. I'd love him at the Lakers.

Agree on the dunk-contest being shit. They should just scrap the all-star weekend, especially in a congested season.
 
RDCR07 said:
Tony Parker. He was 27th pick in the 1st round as well.
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He was also age 19 and coming from France so not really the same as those other players that had played college ball for a couple seasons or more.

And you would take a near retirement, 38-going-on-39 year old Kidd over Westbrook? I don't think I would at this stage in careers.
 
ha_rooney said:
Really? I think Westbrook's stepped it up this year and is playing much better. He can be a bit too greedy at times but at his age he has shown he has a lot of quality and is only going to get better. I'd love him at the Lakers.

Agree on the dunk-contest being shit. They should just scrap the all-star weekend, especially in a congested season.
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He is far too greedy. His turnovers is too high. His FG% ain't great. I think he needs to understand Durant is better than him and Durant is THE star at OKC. He tries to do too much too many times. He keeps running out of control a lot due to his speed. He needs to make more intelligent plays. He takes tough shots and more often than not during those plays, he ain't the best option to take a shot.
 
Danny1982 said:
By the way, why are good point guards so difficult for the teams to spot in the draft? Rondo? Cole? Lin?
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Stats don't tell you everything for a PG. You could have the best passer in the world on your team and he's still not going to get good assists number if the rest of the team is a bunch of jokes who can't score.

You'll really need to watch a PG play to really evaluate him, and unfortunately, most scouts will scout players who have an NBA ready physique to make their lives easier.
 
cj4_elmo said:
Stats don't tell you everything for a PG. You could have the best passer in the world on your team and he's still not going to get good assists number if the rest of the team is a bunch of jokes who can't score.

You'll really need to watch a PG play to really evaluate him, and unfortunately, most scouts will scout players who have an NBA ready physique to make their lives easier.
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I don't know, for the NBA, the team that Lin was putting up stats with before Amare' came back were as close to a pack of jokers as you're likely to see in the NBA. Chandler is a fine player, but Landry Fields, Bill Walker, Jared Jeffries, Steve Novak, Iman Shumpert, that's not much to work with, and he's making them look good.

But you're sure right that you have to see a PG to know anything about him. It only took about 5 minutes of watching Lin to see he has one of the best court visions and eyes for a pass in the NBA. To be fair, that element is underrated compared to the obsession with athleticism these days.
 
RDCR07 said:
I don't consider Westbrook to be up with the best point guards in the league.

Paul
Rose
Rondo
Williams
Nash
Parker
Ellis
Curry
Kidd

I would have any one of the above PG's over Westbrook.
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Have you watched Kidd this year? He's hurting this year, perhaps he shouldn't be on that list. And if you're looking at more than just this year, I'd have Westbrook over Nash because he's 38 and won't play much longer.

Westbrook it way down on assists this year, 8.2 assists from 5.5 now, but his team is winning more, the best record in the West, which is the real measure of quality. Considering it's just Westbrook and Durant doing the scoring I think they deserve a lot of credit, they're doing what Amare' and Melo couldn't pull off.

He's certainly a 'selfish' player, but OKC need him to be like that, his penetration creates for everyone else, and Durant is actually a fairly passive player for all the stats he puts up, he's happy to defer to Westbrook.

I would take Rose, Rondo and Paul over Westbrook, but Williams, Parker, Ellis and Curry I'm not so sure, i you switched them out for Westbrook I'm not sure OKC would win any more games. Parker would probably be the best bet out of them all if you're talking about winning.

And Westbrook actually shoots a better % than Williams, Paul, Parker and Ellis.

Westbrook
22.8 pts, 5.5 ast, 5.0 re's, 1.9 st, 4.4 to 46.7%FG 79.9%FT

Rondo
15.2 pts, 9.5 ast, 5.0 re's, 1.7 st, 3.6 to, 49.2%FG 61.0%FT

Williams
21.3 pts, 8.3 ast, 3.4 re's, 1.0 st, 4.3 to, 41.3%FG 85.4%FT

Paul
18.2 pts, 8.8 ast, 3.7 re's, 2.3 st, 2.1 to, 44.8%FG 84.3%FT

Nash
14.6 pts, 10.7 ast, 2.6 re's, 0.6 st, 3.6 to, 55.9%FG, 87.5%FT

Parker
19.0 pts, 7.8 ast, 2.8 re's, 1.1 st, 2.5 to, 45.4%FG, 80.5%FT

Ellis
22.0 pts, 6.0 ast, 3.4 re's, 1.6 st, 3.4 to, 43.0%FG, 80.4%FT

Curry
16.4 pts, 6.6 ast, 4.2 re's, 1.9 st, 2.9 to, 48.0%FG, 76.9%FT
 
a friend of mine says Jeremy Lin will be a better player than John Wall by the end of the season. I told him that wouldn't happen in a million years. Opinions caftards? Am I right in saying his claim is bonkers?
 
gooDevil said:
Have you watched Kidd this year? He's hurting this year, perhaps he shouldn't be on that list. And if you're looking at more than just this year, I'd have Westbrook over Nash because he's 38 and won't play much longer.

Westbrook it way down on assists this year, 8.2 assists from 5.5 now, but his team is winning more, the best record in the West, which is the real measure of quality. Considering it's just Westbrook and Durant doing the scoring I think they deserve a lot of credit, they're doing what Amare' and Melo couldn't pull off.

He's certainly a 'selfish' player, but OKC need him to be like that, his penetration creates for everyone else, and Durant is actually a fairly passive player for all the stats he puts up, he's happy to defer to Westbrook.

I would take Rose, Rondo and Paul over Westbrook, but Williams, Parker, Ellis and Curry I'm not so sure, i you switched them out for Westbrook I'm not sure OKC would win any more games. Parker would probably be the best bet out of them all if you're talking about winning.

And Westbrook actually shoots a better % than Williams, Paul, Parker and Ellis.

Westbrook
22.8 pts, 5.5 ast, 5.0 re's, 1.9 st, 4.4 to 46.7%FG 79.9%FT

Rondo
15.2 pts, 9.5 ast, 5.0 re's, 1.7 st, 3.6 to, 49.2%FG 61.0%FT

Williams
21.3 pts, 8.3 ast, 3.4 re's, 1.0 st, 4.3 to, 41.3%FG 85.4%FT

Paul
18.2 pts, 8.8 ast, 3.7 re's, 2.3 st, 2.1 to, 44.8%FG 84.3%FT

Nash
14.6 pts, 10.7 ast, 2.6 re's, 0.6 st, 3.6 to, 55.9%FG, 87.5%FT

Parker
19.0 pts, 7.8 ast, 2.8 re's, 1.1 st, 2.5 to, 45.4%FG, 80.5%FT

Ellis
22.0 pts, 6.0 ast, 3.4 re's, 1.6 st, 3.4 to, 43.0%FG, 80.4%FT

Curry
16.4 pts, 6.6 ast, 4.2 re's, 1.9 st, 2.9 to, 48.0%FG, 76.9%FT
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You always look at stats for only one season. I made a mistake by putting Kidd there. I wanted to take him out but I forgot. To me Westbrook is not an intelligent player and I love those players who actually use their brain during the game instead of blindly running up and down the floor.
 
Lin is already better than Wall....Walls having the good old sophomore slump, although Wizards have nothing for him to play with pretty much, tough one, but Lin didn't have much either really and is winning and still winning with one of the big 2 returning.

And rofl at Kidd over Westbrook, talk about pure random hate or too much love to Kidd.
 
I think Westbrook deserves to be up there with the best, mainly because of one stat. (22-7).

Durant is the only star player in Oklahoma. And one star can't lift his team to the top of the league on his own. Ask Bryant.

He does run like a mad man, but that's not all bad. It could be bad, causing a lot of turnovers, but it could also be a good thing, creating havoc among the defense of the opposing team, which makes it easier for his teammates to get good shots.. But when you weigh those two sides against each other, you get 22-7, the best record in the NBA, which suggests that overall, he is doing a pretty good job..

Will Lin be better than John Wall by the end of the season? Tough to say. Wall plays for a weaker team which makes it easier for the opposing team to guard him, while in a team that has Amare and Carmelo, the defense will have a tougher task at hand trying to guard Lin.

I don't think Lin is as good as Wall as a player, but he has a better team (which is crucial for a point guard), so it IS possible that Lin will end up having a better season than Wall this year.
 
Desert Eagle said:
a friend of mine says Jeremy Lin will be a better player than John Wall by the end of the season. I told him that wouldn't happen in a million years. Opinions caftards? Am I right in saying his claim is bonkers?
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Lin is arguably better than Wall already, to be taking charge of the Knicks even when Amare is back, says a lot about his confidence. He's less likely to suffer from self-doubts which most NBA new comers have when they realise they can;t just blow past every defender like they used to.

But it'll eventually be Lin as the better PG, Wall as the better player.
 
I see Jeremy turnover machine Lin almost made it to double figures tonight - only 9!

Not going to get into the Lin and Wall debate(Wizards fan, so I'll keep my bias to myself) - other than Lin will be an All-Star before Wall, what with the zillion fan votes he'll get.
 
Danny1982 said:
Durant is the only star player in Oklahoma. And one star can't lift his team to the top of the league on his own. Ask Bryant.
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I missed Bryant on the way out, but I asked Lebron and Derrick, both said it was easy
Cruise.png
 
Durant is not as good as Lebron or Rose or Bryant. He can't generate offense on his own.. He's a scorer. He needs a star player with him to run the offense and distribute the ball. And if a player like Bryant can't do it on his own, then Durant will have very little chance of being able to do so.
 
ESPN ran an article headline "Chink in the Armor" for the Knicks loss to New Orleans.

:lol:
 
It's the one thing I think would have been somewhere in the Linsanity folder saying DO NOT USE "CHINK IN THE ARMOR" or other similar statements.
 
What an end to regulation in the Spurs-Clips game! Wow! Neal makes up for his mistake in the previous play and we are going to OT!!!!
 
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