What a game between OKC and Memphis today. Heat look like a lock to make it to the finals. I think the Grizzlies would be their toughest opponents. As much as I am a fan of Dirk and Kidd just can't see them posing a problem to the Heat.
Nba 2010-2011
- Thread starter Alex
- Start date
Was hoping Celtics could take Miami at least to 7 games if not win the series. Big win for Thunder but Memphis look really good and I think they might make it through to the Western finals.
No way they'll be able to sign Howard via free agency without a sign-and-trade. And without knowing the future of the league in regards to salary cap type (hopefully a hard cap with no loopholes and exemptions) and max salary restraints, it's unlikely there will be any moves this summer until the CBA is resolved, which probably won't happen for many months which means lockout.
If Kobe wants to win another ring or two let's see him take a massive pay cut so they can get a guy like Howard and/or Paul/Williams.
Oh they'll be a great test for Miami as they can defend and have some clutch shooters themselves. They'd be even better if Butler could play. For the good of the game I really hope the Heat don't win the title.
How is that "for the good of the game"?? Why is it bad if the Heat win it?? (Although they won't)
They're basically doing a Chelsea but in basketball.
Nope. For Miami it's not about the money. The NBA is a different system. They didn't spend an amount of money that nobody could spend. It's only about persuading the players to join them. Lebron James would have received more money had he resigned with the Cavaliers, or probably signed for any other team. Yet he chose Miami. You can't make decisions for the players, and if they make a decision that you don't like, you call it "not good for basketball".
Besides, it's not the first time that 3 big stars join each other. How about the Celtics?? They also have a big three of their own.. Was it also "not good for Basketball" that they won in 2008??
If you hate them, fine. Many hate the Heat, I'm not asking you to like them, BUT that's it. It's just a matter of like and hate, and has nothing to do with "right and wrong"..
I didn't care for the Celtics picking up those two players in 2007 either. I recall many bitching about the Lakers signing Malone and Payton 2003, granted those guys were well past their prime so it's a lesser level than what Boston and Miami did.
The money argument on Bosh and LeBron taking less is moot. They still got paid top dollar and in doing so gobbled up 75% of the pie (along with Wade). They took about 10% less by leaving, still getting max contracts, and actually each had to do a sign-and-trade to join Miami due to cap restraints. The cap system is an utter joke with all the loopholes. I prefer the NFL's cap system which actually creates a much fairer field of play.
That's fine then. We'll just end up with a league of 4-8 teams with all the top talent while everyone else scraps for .500 at best.
The money argument on Bosh and LeBron taking less is moot. They still got paid top dollar and in doing so gobbled up 75% of the pie (along with Wade). They took about 10% less by leaving, still getting max contracts, and actually each had to do a sign-and-trade to join Miami due to cap restraints. The cap system is an utter joke with all the loopholes. I prefer the NFL's cap system which actually creates a much fairer field of play.
That's fine then. We'll just end up with a league of 4-8 teams with all the top talent while everyone else scraps for .500 at best.
You compared Miami to Chelsea, and my argument was that it's not, because in Miami's case it's NOT about the money. It was a counter-argument to your point. I didn't say the big three are running a charity in Miami or something. I'm merely stating that money was NOT a factor in their case, unlike the case with Chelsea.
Isn't that the way every football league is, including the premier league? You could prefer another scenario, but for many this scenario is not "less enjoyable" or "less right". And as a matter of fact, the NBA is attracting more attention after this Heat drama, and if that tells us anything, it would be that this move was rather "good" for the game..
And by the way, since when was the NBA a more than 8 horse race?? The Bulls years? The Boston years? The Lakers years? The Spurs years?
Its nothing new for superstar players to play with other superstar players. It just so happens that one of the players in question is LeBron James which causes a bit more of a stir.
Lakers have the highest wages in the whole of NBA too, is that right or wrong? Is that doing a 'Chelsea'?
I get that you hate Heat, many fans of other teams do. Its not because what they've done is 'wrong' though. Its because they're look a bloody good team and it has LeBron James on it's roster.
Well he will get his money back though.
Until the Celtics did it four years ago, nearly every previous dynamic duo or trios were drafted by the same club, or aqcuired via a trade. Even the Celtics did it via trades. The Heat went one better and "signed" these two players via free agency but due to cap rules were required to do sign-and-trades with the prior clubs due to cap restraints (as Bosh and LeBron both signed max contracts). It's winning through free agency, the same thing people bitch and moan about the Yankees every year.
The Lakers drafted Kobe and Bynum and acquired Gasol in a trade, not a sign-and-trade. Huge difference.
I liked LeBron until his 'decision' lark. As did many people. I didn't care for the Cavaliers at all and still don't.
Depends. If he bought the ticket through NBA-approved legal means, yes, (though he'll only get face value,) but if he just got it from a scalper or the online equivalent, and those tickets are on someone else's credit card, he'll get nothing.
There is no difference. The Celtics big three wanted to team up to win a championship, and the same goes for the Heat big three. Doesn't matter how you get there, it's all the same.
I tell you what the difference is. People want to write the history before it happens. And when it doesn't happen they get mad and call what actually happens "wrong". People wrote their own version of "Lebron's history". They wanted him to go win a championship on his own to fulfill their dream story. They didn't care that they are risking that such a great player could very easily remain without a ring this way, because if he gets it, it will be a "wonderful story".
There was only one problem. The story wasn't theirs. It was Lebron's, and he is the one who should decide how to write it, and YOU should do what the fans do, READ it.
He simply wrote his story in a way people didn't like, or not the way they wanted, so they called it the "wrong way".
I tell you something. ONLY rings will decide the greatness of a player in basketball.
Kobe will NEVER be a Jordan because he only has 5, and doesn't look like grabbing a sixth.
Wade will never be a Jordan, although he won a ring so single-handedly that there wasn't even a "Scottie Pippen" in his story. But it doesn't matter how you win a ring. It's still ONE ring.
That's how the people judge things. And that's why Lebron made the right decision in my opinion, because it's unfair to be left out there alone fighting the superstars teaming up against you, and then asked to pull a Jordan all by yourself!
You could disagree, but then again, it's a matter of opinions, not "wrong and right".
Wade did have Shaq who was still a dominant force those years while Dirk was the man on his own. Shaq only started to fade in the last 2-3 years. No Shaq = No title.
Wade also somehow managed to get multiple phantom foul calls during that series, which was weird because he wasn't in that superstar stratosphere of Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, et al going into that series, and we all know more often than not the superstars get the preferential (or biased) treatment (see Jordan's clear offensive foul in the 98 finals - a call that would have gone against Russell in reverse scenario).
Wade also somehow managed to get multiple phantom foul calls during that series, which was weird because he wasn't in that superstar stratosphere of Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, et al going into that series, and we all know more often than not the superstars get the preferential (or biased) treatment (see Jordan's clear offensive foul in the 98 finals - a call that would have gone against Russell in reverse scenario).
Tbf, Wade had something better than Pippen, he had the refs. The calls he got in those finals, not even Jordan got those calls until much much much later in this career.
Also
-Shaq averaged 20 and 10 during those playoffs, not to mention Walker averaged 14 and 6.
EDIT: I got called away, come back to finish my post, and I see Marcello already made the exact same points
NBA Fans: those who are oldskool, remember Robert 'Tractor' Traylor?
He was found dead in Puerto Rico a few hours ago.
RIP dude.
He was found dead in Puerto Rico a few hours ago.
RIP dude.
Chicago without Jordan was a 55-27 team.
Miami without Wade was a 15-67 team.
Enough said.
For the ref calls, Jordan himself said that tricking the refs is part of the game, and that he does many things in the game that the refs don't notice because he is so quick, and he considered it as a "great player quality", (including the push against Russel in game six that handed the Bulls their sixth title). BUT nobody questions what Jordan does, because he got 6 rings, which proves my point. If Wade wins 5 more rings, I doubt anybody will talk about those "ref calls". These arguments will only surface when you win one or two rings.. Not six.
RIP
Fun fact: Traylor was traded by the Mavs for Pat Garrity and [I'll let the Mavs fans answer].
The mere fact that this discussion is still being had, never mind the old "Jordan rules" meme, proves this wrong.
Um not really. That Heat side that won the the championship had been beaten down at that point and Shaq killed a lot of harmony....he only played about 30 games that year for the Heat. Also a player retiring is different to a player getting injured....since you know, the Bulls could of worked to play around that retirement in the summer, Heat were just lost.
Also wrong on the ONLY rings decide a players greatness attitude....Malone, Barkley, Stockton, Ewing, Baylor, Iverson....all considered legendary players, HoF, and will make alot of top 20 lists, if not top 10...sounds like a lot of greatness without rings. Only idiots go to the "oh oh oh but he hasn't got a ring...so he's not great" argument, it's so much deeper than that.
Kobe will never be Jordan, even if he wins 7 rings, why....because Jordan dominated, while Kobe didn't dominate anyway near as much, 2 finals MVP vs 6? Yeah no contest. Never losing in the finals compared to Kobe losing twice with his stacked teams...Jordan had Pippen yes, but Kobe has the Lakers franchise and their revolving door of being able to build stud teams because they are the Hollywood team.
- Jordan retired in October in a sudden decision that shocked the whole NBA. It wasn't a pre-planned decision.
- Even in the next season when Wade played a part (only 50 games) but was never 100%, they only managed a 44-38.
Those are all legendary players but were they Jordanesque? Or even close? Even Wade will be considered a better player than them (already) because he could do IT on the biggest stage. While the rest will always be great players but that's it. The great players that will never make a list, but always worth a mention.
I have to say though that you raised a legitimate point by comparing Kobe's 2 final MVPs to Jordan's 6. I agree, it's not only about winning rings, but also about being the MVP leading the team to the ring. But I don't think that will change much in Lebron's case, because be it Cleveland or Miami, if he wins a ring, he will be the MVP.
So you're saying Wade is better than Jordan? What your argument looks like.
Chicago minus Jordan the first time still had Pippen who had developed into one of the best players in the league at the time (only behind Olajuwon and Barkley IMO). They also had Kukoc, Grant, et al that formed a solid nucleus. Not to mention the best coach in league history.
Miami before Wade had nothing going for them, hence why they had such a high draft pick. Look to Chicago in 1983-84 if you're going to come up with a valid comparison. Why pick 93-94 Bulls and not the 98-99 Bulls minus Jordan? Granted neither of those are valid comparisons because Wade has never retired so it's not a like-for-like comparison.
As for the Heat with Wade, in his rookie year they improved 15 games to 42-40 and made the playoffs. But with Shaq the following year they improved 17 games to 59-23. In 2005-06, they fell to 52-30 though Shaq missed 23 games. However, the conference was so shit that only one team won more than 52 games - Detroit, and Miami would go on to win the conference and upset the favored Mavs. In 2006-07, Wade missed 31 games but Shaq missed 42 games, however the club still won the division in-spite of a 44 win return.
The year you cite 15-67, in 2007-08, Wade missed 31 games (including the final 21, well after the Shaq trade) and Shaq played 33 of 46 before being traded (and 28 of 34 in Phoenix), so it's not correct to claim it's all Wade. Shaq had begin to fade that season as the prior and current injuries started to take their toll on his body. He also was going through a bitter divorce.
Clearly the fortunes of Miami turned by drafting Wade but significantly improved by acquiring Shaq. Once he departed, they have returned to a playoff participant but simply there making up the numbers. That is until LeBron arrived (and Bosh to a lesser extent). LeBron's impact rivals Shaq. Wade is an extremely likable person and very good player but for me he's been massively overrated by many.
Chicago minus Jordan the first time still had Pippen who had developed into one of the best players in the league at the time (only behind Olajuwon and Barkley IMO). They also had Kukoc, Grant, et al that formed a solid nucleus. Not to mention the best coach in league history.
Miami before Wade had nothing going for them, hence why they had such a high draft pick. Look to Chicago in 1983-84 if you're going to come up with a valid comparison. Why pick 93-94 Bulls and not the 98-99 Bulls minus Jordan? Granted neither of those are valid comparisons because Wade has never retired so it's not a like-for-like comparison.
As for the Heat with Wade, in his rookie year they improved 15 games to 42-40 and made the playoffs. But with Shaq the following year they improved 17 games to 59-23. In 2005-06, they fell to 52-30 though Shaq missed 23 games. However, the conference was so shit that only one team won more than 52 games - Detroit, and Miami would go on to win the conference and upset the favored Mavs. In 2006-07, Wade missed 31 games but Shaq missed 42 games, however the club still won the division in-spite of a 44 win return.
The year you cite 15-67, in 2007-08, Wade missed 31 games (including the final 21, well after the Shaq trade) and Shaq played 33 of 46 before being traded (and 28 of 34 in Phoenix), so it's not correct to claim it's all Wade. Shaq had begin to fade that season as the prior and current injuries started to take their toll on his body. He also was going through a bitter divorce.
Clearly the fortunes of Miami turned by drafting Wade but significantly improved by acquiring Shaq. Once he departed, they have returned to a playoff participant but simply there making up the numbers. That is until LeBron arrived (and Bosh to a lesser extent). LeBron's impact rivals Shaq. Wade is an extremely likable person and very good player but for me he's been massively overrated by many.
Looks like Boston is going to choke another one away.
I'll keep it short for you, are you telling me that Jordan's cast was better than Wade's in 2006? You are arguing a lost cause in my opinion.
Besides, Wade was INJURED and played WITH injury throughout 2006-2008. That's why they didn't play him anymore after it looked certain that they won't make the playoff. Also, I didn't say he scored ALL of Miami's points on his own. Of course there were other players in the team, including an aging Shaq. BUT if you tell me that those players were as good as Jordan's teammates, sorry, I disagree.
And as long as nobody is saying that Wade is the number 1 in the NBA, I can't see how he can be overrated.
Thunder pummeling the Grizzlies, guess we know, who suffered more because of that triple OT.
Of course the Grizzlies will, they rely more on their energy. OKC has more talented squad but the Grizzlies were making up for that by showing more energy, and when that becomes a no factor, talent will have to shine in the end.
I hope Shaq retires, watching him play in Game 4 was sad seeing how much of a legend he is. Doubt he needs the money and he's barely played the last few season so I think it's better for him to retire than make a fool of himself.
Miami look very good, Bulls were undefeated in the regular season but I'm not sure they can beat the Heat over 7 games.
Miami look very good, Bulls were undefeated in the regular season but I'm not sure they can beat the Heat over 7 games.
Shaq isn't after the money. He needs the fifth ring that Kobe has.
And I don't think Miami are the favorites against the Bulls to be honest. 50/50. Getting 4 for 20ish performance from your bench consistently is frightening for Miami. And because of Chigaco's homecourt advantage, they may very well edge it in the end.
If Shaq continues 'The search for 5' it will be pathetic. This season was already a stretch, but trying to sell yourself to a team after barely being able to contribute to the Celtics in the playoffs is ridiculous.
Heat look much better in clutch situations right now.
Statement game, right there. Boozer looked great with 23/10. And you know what I'm seeing among the players after the end? Mild happiness. End of a good day at the office. Yesterday, the Heat were celebrating like they'd won it all. The Bulls are moving on. Court reporter asks "Where's the big celebration?" Rose just answered in cliche, but his answer said to me "Eight wins from now." Bulls in 6.
I'm starting to become a Bulls fan despite not caring about the NBA. They play some very good basketball.
Lebron and Wade had some rivalry going with Boston, or some sort of revenge, that's why it was a tad emotional. It was a great series, and with a fitting end. I REALLY liked those emotions from both teams, that we have been lacking in the last few years. It reminds me of the old days. Just compare how Boston went out to how the Lakers went out. Hats off for both teams (Miami and Boston). Miami were the better team and paid respect when it was due, and Boston played great and lost like a champion, unlike the Lakers. Well done both teams.
The next clash will be the real test for Miami though, when age is a no factor. That's why I think the Bulls will win it. They will provide more resistance in the last 3 minutes than Boston, and they still could do as well in the first 45 minutes of the game.
Anyone watching the Memphis game? Looks like this is going all the way to seven.