Brwned downloads and watches old games, it's his thing. I'm sure he can point you in the right direction if you ask.
National team all time XIs
- Thread starter Fergus' son
- Start date
Yeah I'm sure he does but I'm gonna call bollocks on this particular one.
really? Even if you have (which you haven't) sat down and watched all Benfica's European Finals. Didn't they lose all of them anyway? I'll give you the 68 final but I've seen that (obviously) and he didn't stand out, other than for being very tall.
I'm not even going to comment on the "WC games". I'm sure you're fecking about anyway.
But Pauleta mid table clubs? PSG are arguably the 2nd biggest club in France, Bordeaux have usually been a top 5ish team. He was at Deportivo when they won the league. PSG were in a state during his later years there but that doesnt make them a mid-table club.
I thought he was looked impressive in a really strong side with Augusto, Eusébio, Simões, Coluna and co. but that's just me. His goal record's even more impressive though.
While Pauleta was at PSG they finished higher than 9th place just once. They were a midtable club regardless of their stature.
I'm not even going to comment on the "WC games". I'm sure you're fecking about anyway.
How can you know this? Brwned is usually the poster we ask for something when we are talking about the players from the past.
PSG is the second biggest club in the France, but they have been in league even more terrible than Liverpool in last 5 years. Only after they won the lottery, they started to be a good team again.
Alternate Italy side, looks great IMO. Rivera and Mazzola didn't used to get played together but no reason why it wouldn't work like that, with Tardelli's workrate and tackling in front of a ridiculous defence. Only drawback is Bergomi at rightback maybe won't provide enough width in attack, but overall that team would be hard to beat.
------------Zoff-----------
------------Scirea------------
Bergomi--Baresi--Maldini--Facchetti
----Mazzola-Tardelli--Rivera-----
---------Baggio--Riva---------
------------Zoff-----------
------------Scirea------------
Bergomi--Baresi--Maldini--Facchetti
----Mazzola-Tardelli--Rivera-----
---------Baggio--Riva---------
Yeah I think that's brilliant.
You can't even watch a live game in which Arteta and Wilshere run the show and grasp the plot.That Italian defence is just ridiculous.. That's probably the best of all nationalities? The German one was great too.
Not 100% on Riva as haven't seen enough of him to stick him in and feel justified in doing so, but not sure on alternatives. Del Piero wouldn't work with Baggio.. leaves Vieri maybe.
Not 100% on Riva as haven't seen enough of him to stick him in and feel justified in doing so, but not sure on alternatives. Del Piero wouldn't work with Baggio.. leaves Vieri maybe.
I'v seen virtually nothing of him but Meazza is very highly regarded, some even say the greatest Italian player.
Yeahh, same issue with him though, I don't feel like I can include him seeing as he was playing in the 1930's. Feck it, just stick with Riva.
Yeah, pretty good choice anyway. There's Piolla too but I'm guessing like me you haven't seen much of him either?
How would you do England?
How would you do England?
The Dutch have a quality spine, absolutely love Guillit as a player, so physically dominant and such a ball player as well.
-------Van Basten------
Cruyff----Guillit-------??
----Neeskins--Rijkaard---
Krol--Koeman--Stam--Suurbier
------Van Der Sar-----
Right winger? You could go for the diamond and push Cruyff up top with Van Basten and let him drift around, as they have some really good CM's in Cocu, Seedorf or Davids who could come into the middle and partner Neeskins.. But would be wierd to have a Holland team so narrow.
-------Van Basten------
Cruyff----Guillit-------??
----Neeskins--Rijkaard---
Krol--Koeman--Stam--Suurbier
------Van Der Sar-----
Right winger? You could go for the diamond and push Cruyff up top with Van Basten and let him drift around, as they have some really good CM's in Cocu, Seedorf or Davids who could come into the middle and partner Neeskins.. But would be wierd to have a Holland team so narrow.
Let's give this a whirl... Belgium:
Honorable mentions for Pfaff, Albert, Van Moer, Van Der Elst and Scifo.
Some controversial choices in there, a quite unbalanced midfield, but some players I just couldn't leave out.
Preud'homme
Gerets - Grün - Kompany - Van Brandt
Ceulemans - Mees
Wilmots - Nilis - Van Himst
Coppens
Gerets - Grün - Kompany - Van Brandt
Ceulemans - Mees
Wilmots - Nilis - Van Himst
Coppens
Honorable mentions for Pfaff, Albert, Van Moer, Van Der Elst and Scifo.
Some controversial choices in there, a quite unbalanced midfield, but some players I just couldn't leave out.
Forgot about Cantwell. Who would you have Ronnie Whelan in instead of?
Givens or Stapleton would only get in if I was playing a 4-4-2, but Keane, Giles and Brady had to all get in.
O'Leary? I'd have Moran or McCarthy over him personally.
Robbie Keane has over 50 goals. I don't like him, but he deserves it, easily.
Houghton scored the winning goals in our two biggest wins ever!
Sheedy was good, but nowhere near Duff.
A spanish all time side anyone?
Ugh, Pauleta was a good player, above average at that. 3 times top-scorer in the French League, voted French League footballer of the year twice as well. And he climbed the hard way, one of the rare examples that never played in the Portuguese league. Only debuted for the National Team at 26, a late bloomer, but still did a very good job.
That said I agree he has no place in a Portuguese all-time best XI. Only in a very-extended bench. No contest between José Torres and him, or Fernando Gomes for that matter (top scorer in the Portuguese League 5 times - only behind Eusebio and Jardel - and European Golden Shoe twice).
That said I agree he has no place in a Portuguese all-time best XI. Only in a very-extended bench. No contest between José Torres and him, or Fernando Gomes for that matter (top scorer in the Portuguese League 5 times - only behind Eusebio and Jardel - and European Golden Shoe twice).
What?
Its just very unlikely that hes sat down and watched portugals world cup games from 1966 as well as all benficas european cup finals. And I wasn't aware of this rule of asking brwned about players from the 60's.
England:
.............. Banks
.....Neville B.Wright Moore Cole
Beckham Charlton Scholes Finney
............Gascoigne
.............Shearer
.............. Banks
.....Neville B.Wright Moore Cole
Beckham Charlton Scholes Finney
............Gascoigne
.............Shearer
Not disagreeing with you. As I said I was only making a case for pauleta because hes top scorer. I'm not going to make comparisons between him and torres because I saw torres play once. But i'm not buying brwneds
Argument.. Thats all. He might be correct. Hell he probably is but hes getting there by throwing around manipulated statistics. And claiming to have seen this player and numerous games hes played in. It's far fetched.
And then theres these goalscoring stats being thrown about too. But then hes using european finals that torres didn't even score in as part of the same argument.
I can understand the doubt about watching Portugal's WC games but European Cup finals? Really? Surely you can understand the appeal of watching any European Cup final regardless of the teams? They're inevitably filled with fantastic players. Through watching just Benfica's cup finals I saw Eusébio, Coluna, Kubala, Suarez, Kocsis, Czibor, Puskas, Di Stéfano, Santamaría, Gento, Rivera, Mazzola, Facchetti, Burgnich - some of the best players to play the game. 360 minutes of your time to see all of these great players isn't a huge ask. There's nothing I gain from telling you I've watched these matches, there's no reason to lie.
Benfica beat Barca and Madrid in back to back European Cup finals by the way. If they lost all the time then I suspect Eusébio wouldn't be remembered in such glowing terms.
It's funny that both of you picked Overath and Netzer together for the all time XI, yet Germany never found a way to play both together from 66 to 74. I love your formation, Brwned. I'd probably switch Walter for Overath, though. Walter should be in it, imo and like I said above, Overath and Netzer together seems wrong. Netzer ahead of Overath just because of 72, Germany never again played so beautiful. Maybe Kohler in for Schwarzenbeck or Vogts. Honorable mention to Sammer. He doesn't make sense with Beckenbauer and Matthäus in the team, imo. Though he probably deserves to be in it the most of all the players left out.
I was thinking that Matthäus being the one man midfield that he was could make up the difference and allow both Netzer and Overath to do as they please, particularly with the security of 5 defenders behind them which they never had in the 70s. Have to say I know very little about Fritz Walter though. Agree about Sammer, he just doesn't fit but in most other nations' XIs he'd be one of the key players. Kohler certainly has an argument for being in there ahead of Schwarzenbeck.
I would put Neil Franklin in ahead of Billy Wright. He didn't have the extended career of Moore and Wright because he went to Colombia but he was supposedly a great player. Everyone from that immediate post war period seems to have him in these teams as centre-half. Now its a case of Neil Who? Even fans from my vintage (I am 56) don't seem to have heard of him.
Tommy Lawton from that era is also worth a shout. But Dixie Dean is rated higher than him. Put in Dean and you open up the pre-war players and it gets impossible trying to rate players from very different eras.
You're going a bit general now. Most of those players are generally regarded as being great. I've certainly seen and heard a lot more of eusebio than torres, albeit in extended clips/highlights...the madrid final for example.
But torres isn't really up there in terms of recognition.
Torres didn't even play in either of those finals. And the ones he played in he didnt score in and those are the games you used for your case. Thats the issue I have. So unless you've watched benficas league games from the 60's I dont think it holds any weight.
And Yeah I see the appeal of watching european finals....in shortened highlights though. I do own that dvd(the one with gerrard on the cover) but torres wasn't one of the "highlights".
I don't mind your formation, I think it could work. It just seems wrong when you've read about a million articles, heard about a million discussions with the topic" Overath or Netzer" during the most successful time of german football. My dad probably would go mental, if I asked him if it's possible to play them together
.Maybe I write something about Fritz Walter later, don't have enough time, right now. His influence in 54 and the importance of 54 for germany isn't described in a few words but it's easily the most important moment in germany's sports history, so he shouldn't be overlooked as the standout player back then.
If you want the right back to attack one option is Zambrotta, even if he looks out of his depth in that lineup.
Alternatively, if you are not going to get much attacking down that flank you could give Gentile his roaming man-marking right back role.
That would be insane. No one would ever score, which is the sort of Best XI Italy deserve.
You could also swap Maldini and Baresi's position so Maldini can cover the right flank or even join attacks down that flank leaving Gentile as cover.
I'd have Benarrivo over Zambrotta as the attacking option.
Yeah I understand that, for that reason I didn't put Mazzola and Rivera in the same team but I thought that if Germany had toyed with the idea of the 5-man defence just a few years earlier then that might've been the key to fitting them both in. A classic Germany 80s setup but with the flair of '72.
I don't mind your formation, I think it could work. It just seems wrong when you've read about a million articles, heard about a million discussions with the topic" Overath or Netzer" during the most successful time of german football. My dad probably would go mental, if I asked him if it's possible to play them together
Maybe I write something about Fritz Walter later, don't have enough time, right now. His influence in 54 and the importance of 54 for germany isn't described in a few words but it's easily the most important moment in germany's sports history, so he shouldn't be overlooked as the standout player back then.
Yeah I understand that, for that reason I didn't put Mazzola and Rivera in the same team but I thought that if Germany had toyed with the idea of the 5-man defence just a few years earlier then that might've been the key to fitting them both in. A classic Germany 80s setup but with the flair of '72.
Knee-skins?
Being the player he was you could put him in that ?? spot and free up a spot for Davids/Seedorf or bring Gullit into midfield and include Bergkamp.Alternatively, Rep or Overmars would do. It really depends on which of those four you want to bring in. I'd probably go Rep. Would like Bergkamp, but end up shifting too many players around for him to come in.
Am I the only one who thought "what the hell is Gullit doing as a sweeper" at first glance?
Let's give this a whirl... Belgium:
Some controversial choices in there, a quite unbalanced midfield, but some players I just couldn't leave out.
I kept looking at it thinking someone was missing, then read your subs. No Scifo? Really?
No place for Littbarski in a German bench? If anything, he seems a more brilliant option when compared to the more traditional German footballer. I only got to know him in PES classic teams but then read about him and saw some highlights and he seemed to be a wonderful player.
Don't let him being a goon and then Leeds manager cloud your judgement. O'Leary was some player. It's a similar case to whether you prefer Rio or Vidic though. If you need a Vidic fair enough.
Good shout
We used to get a lot of German football down here for some bizarre reason and he was indeed one of my favourites, to the point I looked forward to it when Koln was on. Don't think I have watched a game of theirs ever since.
I would definitely leave Guillit in attacking midfield, bringing him back next to Rijkaard would limit his attacking too much.
Considered Rep, wouldn't have Overmars in there. Also Faas Wilkes is an option, Cruyff called him his idol and he scored 35 in 38 from the wing which is ridiculous, but I think he primarily played on the left.
I'd go 4-3-3:
Van der Sar
Suurbier Stam Koeman Krol
Rijkaard
Neeskens Davids
Gullit Van Basten Cruyff
Suurbier Stam Koeman Krol
Rijkaard
Neeskens Davids
Gullit Van Basten Cruyff
Slightly lop-sided with Gullit operating as an inside-right rather than an orthodox winger. Not a problem for him given how effective he was in wide areas. But the balance is good and the front six is outstanding.
Tricky because you've got a lot of players who excelled in the pre-TV age.
Casillas
Segarra Hierro Puyol Camacho
Xavi Pirri
Suarez Raul Gento
Villa
Segarra Hierro Puyol Camacho
Xavi Pirri
Suarez Raul Gento
Villa
Subs: Zamora, Gordillo, Nadal, Guardiola, Iniesta, Butragueno
Casillas in but Zamora may have been better. Not all that sure about Segarra, but there's a distinct lack of top quality at right-back. I'd like to find room for Iniesta, but he's a similar player to Suarez and probably hasn't quite done enough to squeeze in yet - but he's likely to get there by the end of his career.
Keeping it recent for Spain,
----Guardiola----
---Xavi---Iniesta-
Would just be unreal in possession.
----Guardiola----
---Xavi---Iniesta-
Would just be unreal in possession.
Well apart from Ceulemans as a CM (a Van der Elst or Van Moer would have been better but I just couldn't leave Caje out of the first XI) I wanted a bit of realism (although then I'd probably need actual width with a Vercauteren of Degryse type on the wings), so it was basically a choice between Scifo and Nilis, and nothing I've seen from the former makes me think he's better than the latter.
Scifo is usually rated quite highly, but only his dribbling was better and he had more flair moments in him than Nilis in my opinion. But that's just the point, Scifo was a marvellous individual player, whereas Nilis was the type of player who could make a team better. Or as Ronaldo said upon his retirement that Nilis was the best player he ever played with (link is in Portuguese). I think Ruud van Nistelrooy has said the same once.
Something I'll always remember him for: his shooting technique was amazing.
My USA XI and inevitable world champions.
Note: I'm not including a single player from before the late 80s because they were mostly crap or borrowed "citizens" from other nations before the National Team had a true organization.
-----------------Friedel-----------------
Cherundolo-Balboa-Bocanegra-Caligiuri
-----Reyna----Bradley----O'Brien------
---Dempsey--------------Donovan---
---------------McBride---------------
Subs: Howard, Lalas, Pope, Jones, Ramos, Stewart, Wynalda
Note: I'm not including a single player from before the late 80s because they were mostly crap or borrowed "citizens" from other nations before the National Team had a true organization.
-----------------Friedel-----------------
Cherundolo-Balboa-Bocanegra-Caligiuri
-----Reyna----Bradley----O'Brien------
---Dempsey--------------Donovan---
---------------McBride---------------
Subs: Howard, Lalas, Pope, Jones, Ramos, Stewart, Wynalda
You are at it again!
Good effort. I was looking for my man Luis Enrique then went ouch-ouch-ouch-ouch as I went through the different places he could play. Great side that, but I would have Butragueño ahead of Villa myself.