Nasri To City - Done Deal!

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Feed Me said:
There seems to be a feeling pervading the Caf that we won't directly replace Scholes though, despite SAF saying he would. We'll clearly be buying a central midfield player this summer.



Jones is one for the future? In the same way as Smalling was?

I'm not saying Cleverley will make the world of difference. I was merely positing that he'd more than adequately cover for the exit of Gibson.

What's not the be positive about? We're Manchester United fans. Christ, there's absolutely nothing to be miserable about.



To say that our signings will have "feck all" influence next season is absurd. Young clearly will. De Gea is going to be our first choice goalkeeper. Of course they'll make an impact. Even Jones will get chances - again, see Smalling.
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You're missing my point. Obviously these signings will play a lot and make a 'difference', but does it make our first team stronger at all? No. De Gea will be top but he won't be as good as VDS. Young isn't as good as nani or Valencia, and Jones obviously isn't as good as Rio and Vidic, hence whilst improving our already excellent squad they do nothing for the first 11.

Our team will not have 'considerably improved' until a proper midfielder or 2 is bought.
 
Feed Me said:
There seems to be a feeling pervading the Caf that we won't directly replace Scholes though, despite SAF saying he would. We'll clearly be buying a central midfield player this summer.
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I agree that theres no way around us signing at least 1 midfielder, but unless I'm mistaken you were saying that we've already strengthened not that we definitely will. We havent signed that replacement yet
 
Feed Me said:
That great squad won us the title and got us to a Champions League final. I bet all our other rivals would have loved to have had our squad.

We were basically undone by the best side in the world, right at the end. Even with the fabled central midfielders we all year for, we probably would have still been beaten.
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What? I said we had a great squad and you agreed, yet you somehow managed to turn it into an argument against me? Seriously FM what the feck are you on about here, you just agreed with what my point :lol:
 
Sultan said:
Although Jones and Young are great additions to our squad we have lost a lot of experience from the squad.. De Gea replaces VDS which is hardly an improvement. Our first eleven have not improved at all with the three signings so far.
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We've lost experience, granted. But let's not make out that losing the likes of Scholes and Neville will harm us in ability terms - both players were well past their sell by dates last season. VDS was still bang on top of his game, and that will be a loss. It seems to me that people are worried about De Gea because of his age. If he has the ability and mentality, then it shouldn't matter how old he is. Every signing ultimately has a level of risk, in terms of whether they'll fit in.

And there's still bags of experience in the squad - Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Carrick, Fletcher, Giggs, Rooney are all serial winners. Even the likes of Nani and Anderson have won shed loads.
 
Is it just me that thought up until Xmas, Scholes, along with Berbatov/Nani were our best players? Maybe all's well that ends well works the other way too.

Gibson/Scholes/VDS/possibly O'Shea for Jones/Young/De Gea/Cleverley is weakening in real terms, although will be shrewd in the long term.
 
Feed me is on a rampage, I don't think he even understands what he is arguing against.

Unless of course he thinks Jones, De Gea and Young have improved our strongest 11?
 
Excal said:
:lol: Kinell

I get what you're saying, but you didn't help the argument by tossing Hargo in there. "If he hadn't have played those 4 minutes against Wolves, we'd have never gotten number 19..."
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Kinell, we still lost him, hence his name being listed.

Losing players wasn't my point anyway, as only VDS was in our strongest 11.
 
Sharky7 said:
Unless of course he thinks Jones, De Gea and Young have improved our strongest 11?
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I believe he is ignoring that question and going on about how our squad is great despite it already being great last year ERGO how the flying feck have we "considerably strengthened"?
 
Football, more than ever, is a squad game. SAF sees this. I don't understand talk of our first eleven not being strengthened. Who can even name our first eleven? At the end of the day, it'd about having quality options and being able to rotate according to the task in hand. Our squad is packed with quality and depth, despite the retirements. People are just panicking because the elusive midfielder hasn't arrived - it will.

There is also not an appreciation of the ability for the squad to improve organically - i.e. seeing Anderson fulfil potential, getting Fletcher back and fully fit. Those two, at their best, are great options. It doesn't always require major transfers...
 
finneh said:
Is it just me that thought up until Xmas, Scholes, along with Berbatov/Nani were our best players? Maybe all's well that ends well works the other way too.

Gibson/Scholes/VDS/possibly O'Shea for Jones/Young/De Gea/Cleverley is weakening in the real terms, although will be shrewd in the long term.
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why include Gibson, most people here want him out of our club.
 
Sharky7 said:
Feed me is on a rampage, I don't think he even understands what he is arguing against.

Unless of course he thinks Jones, De Gea and Young have improved our strongest 11?
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Please name our first eleven...

We've made signings that strengthen our squad and that's key. Chelsea's undoing last season was their atrocious depth.
 
Feed Me said:
There seems to be a feeling pervading the Caf that we won't directly replace Scholes though, despite SAF saying he would. We'll clearly be buying a central midfield player this summer.



Jones is one for the future? In the same way as Smalling was?

I'm not saying Cleverley will make the world of difference. I was merely positing that he'd more than adequately cover for the exit of Gibson.

What's not the be positive about? We're Manchester United fans. Christ, there's absolutely nothing to be miserable about.



To say that our signings will have "feck all" influence next season is absurd. Young clearly will. De Gea is going to be our first choice goalkeeper. Of course they'll make an impact. Even Jones will get chances - again, see Smalling.



It's tiring to see Young labelled a "good squad player". As though there's no improvement in him. He's shown his abilities lately at International level and he's been one of the most creative players in the league since being at Villa. He's entering his peak and he's now got a grand stage to perform on.

De Gea, despite his age, is clearly a talented 'keeper. SAF says he's learned lessons from the replacing Schmeichel years and he's plumped for De Gea - the kid is clearly highly rated by our staff.



What, and we'll stagnate or move backwards will we?

Same thing every year - United set to decline, everyone else set to improve.



Hargreaves hasn't played in years, why include him?

There's a nostalgia attached to Scholes - the form he showed last season was not befitting of the player he had been. Scholes of last season is not a loss to us.
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I think it's you who's a bit delusional here. You're reading everybody wrong. You somehow think that people are panicking and are unhappy with our purchases.

Fact is all that people are saying is that we haven't improved our midfield as of yet and De Gea is certainly not as good as VDS even though he's one for the future like Jones.

I'm very happy with our purchases so far. I'm only saying, as are others, that we're not better than last season like you claim.

Not once have I mentioned Chelsea other than to answer what you brought up. Can't see any other posts fearing the opponent.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If there's any truth that we're seriously trying to sign Nasri then SAF clearly intends adding another quality midfielder to our squad. Whether or not we get him, I'm confident that our squad will be stronger next season.
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It's still june and some ppl over here have already started panicking
 
Kelvin said:
why include Gibson, most people here want him out of our club.
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In all fairness Cleverley will more than make up for him, as will Jones for O'Shea (albeit losing experience). It's basically comparing VDS and Scholes to a PL unproven but very talented keeper and Young, who most (including Villa fans) accept isn't better than what we have (although a great squad addition).

We will strengthen CM and will be much stronger next year. But to say we are (considerably) stronger as of right now is a pretty bold statement to make and, in my opinion, an inaccurate one.
 
Feed Me said:
We've lost experience, granted. But let's not make out that losing the likes of Scholes and Neville will harm us in ability terms - both players were well past their sell by dates last season. VDS was still bang on top of his game, and that will be a loss. It seems to me that people are worried about De Gea because of his age. If he has the ability and mentality, then it shouldn't matter how old he is. Every signing ultimately has a level of risk, in terms of whether they'll fit in.

And there's still bags of experience in the squad - Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Carrick, Fletcher, Giggs, Rooney are all serial winners. Even the likes of Nani and Anderson have won shed loads.
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I'm not talking about the squad. I'm just saying we haven't bettered our first eleven. Not sure that can even be debated.
 
Snow said:
I think it's you who's a bit delusional here. You're reading everybody wrong. You somehow think that people are panicking and are unhappy with our purchases.

Fact is all that people are saying is that we haven't improved our midfield as of yet and De Gea is certainly not as good as VDS even though he's one for the future like Jones.

I'm very happy with our purchases so far. I'm only saying, as are others, that we're not better than last season like you claim.

Not once have I mentioned Chelsea other than to answer what you brought up. Can't see any other posts fearing the opponent.
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All I did was say that we finished 9 points clear last season and now we're stronger. I got about 3 or 4 replies, instantly, along the lines of "have we feck!"
 
Feed Me said:
Football, more than ever, is a squad game. SAF sees this. I don't understand talk of our first eleven not being strengthened. Who can even name our first eleven? At the end of the day, it'd about having quality options and being able to rotate according to the task in hand. Our squad is packed with quality and depth, despite the retirements. People are just panicking because the elusive midfielder hasn't arrived - it will.

There is also not an appreciation of the ability for the squad to improve organically - i.e. seeing Anderson fulfil potential, getting Fletcher back and fully fit. Those two, at their best, are great options. It doesn't always require major transfers...
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The truth is you need a strong 11 once you're up against top opposition. We managed to solve some of these problems with a bit of luck and good management, but I think we all knew what was coming against Barcelona. I want to be in a final feeling we have players that are able to show just as long penises. The opposite problem was presented for the Barca team this season so it's always possible to balance it out one way or another it seems.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Also worth considering - due to their ages - we can expect an improvement in every player in our squad, apart from, maybe, Rio.
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But football doesn't work that way. Some players will improve, some players won't be able to reach the standards of the last season. Anderson might blossom but it's not out of the question that Carrick will be back to the disastrous form of 09/10.
 
Sultan said:
I'm not talking about the squad. I'm just saying we haven't bettered our first eleven. Not sure that can even be debated.
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I dispute this massively, on the grounds that we don't have a first choice eleven in my opinion. Fergie just has too many variations to say we have a first eleven. He rotates according to the assignment in hand. Look how often Nani sat on the bench in the run in, for instance.

He'll rotate Young, Nani, Valencia and Park on the wings. Sometimes Nani will sit out for a more defensive option. Sometimes Park will play infield. Sometimes Young will play in behind the striker. Young may even play centrally alongside two other midfielders, or one defensive midfielder.

I truly don't believe it's possible to name a first eleven. There's about 4 or 5 positions that are massively fluid.
 
Successful said:
The truth is you need a strong 11 once you're up against top opposition. We managed to solve some of these problems with a bit of luck and good management, but I think we all knew what was coming against Barcelona. I want to be in a final feeling we have players that are able to show just as long penises. The opposite problem was presented for the Barca team this season so it's always possible to balance it out one way or another it seems.
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The truth is that every team in the world is inferior to Barcelona. It's also likely that we'd have lost with "better" central midfield options.
 
Siorac said:
But football doesn't work that way. Some players will improve, some players won't be able to reach the standards of the last season. Anderson might blossom but it's not out of the question that Carrick will be back to the disastrous form of 09/10.
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Not the point. Yeah, there's individual variances, but as players approach and enter their prime years, their performances will, in the aggregate, tend to improve, just like players past those years will tend to be poorer than the year before.
 
Feed Me said:
I dispute this massively, on the grounds that we don't have a first choice eleven in my opinion. Fergie just has too many variations to say we have a first eleven. He rotates according to the assignment in hand. Look how often Nani sat on the bench in the run in, for instance.

He'll rotate Young, Nani, Valencia and Park on the wings. Sometimes Nani will sit out for a more defensive option. Sometimes Park will play infield. Sometimes Young will play in behind the striker. Young may even play centrally alongside two other midfielders, or one defensive midfielder.

I truly don't believe it's possible to name a first eleven. There's about 4 or 5 positions that are massively fluid.
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But it's reasonable to assume that we'll field at least two central midfielders in every game and our options for those two positions look quite thin and not very convincing.
 
Sultan said:
I'm not talking about the squad. I'm just saying we haven't bettered our first eleven. Not sure that can even be debated.
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you tell me, which realistic signing can we signed to better our first 11?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Also worth considering - due to their ages - we can expect an improvement in every player in our squad, apart from, maybe, Rio.
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And Giggs...

But you would expect the Da Silvas, Hernandez, Smalling and perhaps Nani to improve over last season. Not to mention that Fletcher missed a considerable part of last season.
 
Feed Me said:
All I did was say that we finished 9 points clear last season and now we're stronger. I got about 3 or 4 replies, instantly, along the lines of "have we feck!"
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Those 9 points aren't all that. After we beat Chelsea they didn't show up. 4 point victory would be closer to reality.

Fact is we we're quite bad away. Monstrous at home.

My expectations for next season is for us to do better in the league. It was an odd season. And for that we need someone to step up in the midfield. I don't feel Carrick, Fletcher or Anderson to be this force in either attack or defense. They all seem to be the supporting midfielder type. Anderson next to a strong defensive minded midfielder or Carrick or Fletcher next someone like Nasri or Sneijder mould would be great.

I also would like to add that I think we will sign a midfield player and ultimately will be a stronger side. Just saying that right now we aren't.

My biggest worry for next season isn't the midfield though. It's Evra. I hope he gets rotated a bit more so he can stay fresh. He's been quite the liability.
 
Siorac said:
But it's reasonable to assume that we'll field at least two central midfielders in every game and our options for those two positions look quite thin and not very convincing.
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Carrick's form from March onwards was very good - that is indisputable. There is no reason why he can't maintain that.

Fletcher should get back to his previous levels now he's had a proper break and is over his illness.

Anderson showed real glimpses last season and, with a summer's rest, there's grounds for optimism.

If those three can be on song - that's a very good trio. Then add Giggs, Cleverley and Park to the mixture, and we've got good options.

I still think we'll sign a "jewel in the crown" midfielder - so am feeling very confident.
 
Feed Me, you seem utterly confused here to be honest. Nobody is disputing the fact that a squad is extremely important, nor that we haven't signed 3 quality players, all we're saying is that we haven't considerably strengthened like you said, because we've weakened in other aspects due to circumstances beyond control.

And yes, it's fair to look at this from another perspective, as in our best players (if you're going to be so anal about a "first xi").
Like I've been stressing, the 3 players we've signed are not as good as the players we already have in their positions so while they sure as hell help the depth of the 'squad' they haven't by any means strengthened the teams that we are likely to field on that pitch.

You can only use the term "considerably strengthened" once we find out what our new midfield additions are (or aren't)
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
But less humiliatingly.
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Arsenal got their arses handed to them. Real got their arses handed to them. Say what you will, but when they turn it on, you're on a hiding to nothing.

I agree that we could have given a better account of ourselves in the final. But we've got a tendency to overstate our "problems" in the aftermath of being owned against Barca. The reality is that our midfield comprehensively dominated Chelsea's on three occasions in the run in. It's not as bad as is made out and there is room for considerable improvement just amongst those already there.
 
Excal said:
Not the point. Yeah, there's individual variances, but as players approach and enter their prime years, their performances will, in the aggregate, tend to improve, just like players past those years will tend to be poorer than the year before.
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It is the point though; expecting organic improvement from the squad is fine, as long as it has many players approaching their prime.

However, our squad has many key performers who are past their supposed prime years, like Carrick, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Berbatov... They might keep up their performance levels, they might start to fade, we don't know that but they're unlikely to improve a lot.

We do not have a lot of players who have the potential to do a lot better than they did, therefore significantly improving our fortunes without transfers. The Da Silva twins might be a tad more consistent but there wasn't much wrong with their performances anyway; it's their injury problems which give Fergie a headache and those are unlikely to go away. Smalling, Evans might improve but the defence is the strongest part of this team anyway, their job is to ensure a seamless transition from the excellence of Ferdinand and Vidic.

Up front? Hernández has plenty of room for improvement but he had as good a debut season as anyone could have hoped for, he'll unlikely to be significantly better just yet. The only player whose immediate improvement could make a very significant difference - because he was quite underwhelming so far - is Anderson. And maybe Fletcher who, at 27, has to be able to pull himself together after last season's problems. But even if both improve considerably, we'll still be light in numbers in central midfield.
 
Feed Me said:
Arsenal got their arses handed to them. Real got their arses handed to them. Say what you will, but when they turn it on, you're on a hiding to nothing.

I agree that we could have given a better account of ourselves in the final. But we've got a tendency to overstate our "problems" in the aftermath of being owned against Barca. The reality is that our midfield comprehensively dominated Chelsea's on three occasions in the run in. It's not as bad as is made out and there is room for considerable improvement just amongst those already there.
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And got dominated by Liverpool, City and Arsenal in the run in. Let's not even name some of the shitter teams either.

It always works both ways.
 
cina said:
Feed Me, you seem utterly confused here to be honest. Nobody is disputing the fact that a squad is extremely important, nor that we haven't signed 3 quality players, all we're saying is that we haven't considerably strengthened like you said, because we've weakened in other aspects due to circumstances beyond control.

And yes, it's fair to look at this from another perspective, as in our best players (if you're going to be so anal about a "first xi").
Like I've been stressing, the 3 players we've signed are not as good as the players we already have in their positions so while they sure as hell help the depth of the 'squad' they haven't by any means strengthened the teams that we are likely to field on that pitch.

You can only use the term "considerably strengthened" once we find out what our new midfield additions are (or aren't)
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I'm not utterly confused at all.

Losing Scholes is not a big loss on the playing side - his form in the second half of the season was poor. We're making the mistake of bemoaning the loss of Scholes circa 06-08. Same thing with Neville. Realistically, the only player who we'll miss on the playing side is VDS as he was still on top of his game. And I've every faith that De Gea will make the position his own.
 
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