Facts or rather stats which you are basing your view on are easily twisted at times. Valencia was more successful in terms of finding space and creating openings in my view. The space part you agree on and he did that largely on his own as I didn't feel Neville offered him much support. I thought Valencia was a constant threat on the right flank and the only attacking player to leave with much credit (without taking extenuating circumstances into account).
Nani will reignite our charge to the title
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Facts or rather stats which you are basing your view on are easily twisted at times. Valencia was more successful in terms of finding space and creating openings in my view. The space part you agree on and he did that largely on his own as I didn't feel Neville offered him much support. I thought Valencia was a constant threat on the right flank and the only attacking player to leave with much credit (without taking extenuating circumstances into account).
I don't buy that.
They're afraid of Evra, not Nani. None of our left wingers find much space.
Very self-defeating post.
Thats right, because players can just walk in to team after playing very little and be almost as good as their counterpart who wasn't much better. Then you have the likes of Rooney who's been shit for most of the season and cops little criticism for it. So yeah I am bigging him up because he deserves it. In relative form he and VDS were out stand outs today.
They're just good, humble God fearing people.
But tbh when Nanis on the right teams do give him the same sort of attension
Valencia created far more space like I said and without much help from his full back. In my view up until Rooney and Berbatov started to pick up if we were ever going to score it was going to come from something Valencia did.
That's wrong. Wayne's had his bad patches as he does every year, but he's also been very, very good as well.
Stop trying to put one player down to big another one up.
Outrageous comment, alot of these so called pundits just love putting our players down
No doubt Nani will need to do more to win over some people but, for most some what objective people - Nani was pretty solid today and isn't that what we need to start with? Solid games and build from there - not expect miracles first game back in 2 months.
That's either a joke or very unnecessary.
No, they take time to get back into groove. That's entirely irrelevant to who was the best player on the pitch, on the day. Nothing before or after the game should have any influence on who was MOTM, in my view, yet biases here and there always do.
Rooney's not been shit.
If you were to give both a rating out of 10 for their respective performances this season, what would you give them?
Decent game, if he gets his head down, he can very well own that flank. But then again, we've known that all too well for the last 3 years.
Rooney has had far more shit games then he's had good. His goals flatter him 'especially considering the amount of penalties he's taken' and today is just another example of it. Talk to several other posters who aren't up the Rooney train and even some that are and you can see that he's not playing well at all. For the striker that he is he should have had nearly 4 goals today. 2 were set up on a silver platter and he stuffed them both.
For a player who played once in 14 games prior to this and returning from injury and playing the whole game, I'd say that was a more than ok performance.
His corners and freekick were a threat. He shot from range and hit the target a few times. Almost scored a brilliant goal. His crossing was excellent (shame about the finishing of Rooney). He could have had at least 2 assists.
He linked well with Evra and had much better understanding with his team mates than I had expected.
He tracked back but visibly tired as the game went on.
Give him a few more games, I think he can make it.
His corners and freekick were a threat. He shot from range and hit the target a few times. Almost scored a brilliant goal. His crossing was excellent (shame about the finishing of Rooney). He could have had at least 2 assists.
He linked well with Evra and had much better understanding with his team mates than I had expected.
He tracked back but visibly tired as the game went on.
Give him a few more games, I think he can make it.
Not great but encouraging especially since he's coming back from injury.
So in conclusion, you like players who can create space but not actually do anything with it? No wonder we struggle to break teams down
I prefer a player who can create chances rather than hitting and hoping. Something that Valencia did an awful lot today, which is a shame because he's a lot better than that as proved against Wigan. Be fair to Valencia he plays alot better with Rafael on the right. They're a good combination, just like Evra and Nani are also a good combination on the left.
Problem i see with Nani is regardless of who we're playing he always seems to get on the ball more times than Valencia or even Rooney at times (which is odd unless SAF says get the ball to him or hes just in the right place at the right times) and because of this most of what he does is put under the scope.
I said it before and i'll say it again i think hes a class player and has the potential to become something great at our club - whether he does or does not is one question but in all honest fact i would much rather see him on the left then our other wingers who arent called Giggs. Also Nanis a right footer playing on the left and hes doing quite well, i'd love to see Valencia play there.
Rooney a 7 and Nani a 5.
Given that Nani has played in something like 12-13 games compared to Rooneys 20+ I'd say that its not that bad for Nani.
Rooney has been average for most of the season. Goals don't change that fact just look at the past 2 month. Handful of goals but hasn't added much else especially when we needed it.
So in conclusion, you like players who can create space but not actually do anything with it? No wonder we struggle to break teams down
I prefer a player who can create chances rather than hitting and hoping. Something that Valencia did an awful lot today, which is a shame because he's a lot better than that as proved against Wigan. Be fair to Valencia he plays alot better with Rafael on the right. They're a good combination, just like Evra and Nani are also a good combination on the left.
So now you're assuming Valencia did nothing with the space he created or did next to nothing. Like I said up until Berbatov and Rooney started to pick up, Valencia looked most likely to create a goal for us. He put in a good deal of decent crosses as expected and was always a problem for Burnley in the 90 minutes.
Well actually usually they do. Especially when you're the top scorer in the league!
If this wasn't Rooney and it was someone like Ruud we'd say he's had a typically impressive start to the season, nearly a goal a game.
Rooney in the first half of this season was much better than Ronaldo in the first half of last season, and I can see him having a similar impact in the second half.
I'd be more inclined to give Nani a point less and Rooney a point more myself, but there you go.
See I really don't agree with that assessment. Valencia had alot of space, but he never once tried running directly at goal and taking a shot on. When he got into a crossing position he very rarely got it to a United shirt in space. He was threatening yes, but he had no end product, but even if he did have end product Rooney/Berbatov would probably have missed it in the 1st half.
Nani on the other hand took shots on and continually found United players in the box with his crossing. The only real negative critism I found with Nani was his tracking back at times was a little slow.
Valencia really should have done much better than he did with the space he was given.
Valencia had oceans of space, he just never particularly looked like using it to carve open a goal. He had 2 decent crosses today, one that was very nice but badly timed as Berbatov was simply never going to get to it. And then one of his normal ones where he gets to the byline and pulls it back slightly behind the player in the box. The rest were average, or cut backs which Burnley found easier to deal with as the game went on and he repeatedly tried the same thing.
Our main supply of dangerous activity was coming from Nani's crossing (when he got it right) and Nani's movement into the box to provide more numbers in there for our linkup play in the middle. However he wasnt as involved as Valencia was so we saw less of him. And his team mates clearly dont trust him as much as they do Valencia.
Countless times Nani was open for a pass and team mates would go back on themselves to go the other way, but as soon as Valencia got free he was given the ball in space. Obviously its going to take time for Nani to have the same trust from his team mates that Valencia has in possession of the ball. This comes from the fact that usually, Valencia doesnt give away the ball very often. Nani was the same today but its not that way every game. Just like 60 minutes of football was never going to mean Nani had the trust of his manager over Rooney, Berbatov and Valencia, it wasnt going to instantly make all his team mates confident of releasing the ball to him as soon as he got open like with Valencia. These things will only come if he's given 5 or 6 games with him playing like this one.
Both did well and did it differently (Valencia, Nani). Not sure why we need to put down or hype up the performance of another player to make points. Nani wasn't great, he put in a good shift and put in some good crosses, took a couple bad shots in but, also had a couple good shots on goal. Good performance - now to the next one.
And yes I think Rafael on the right today would have probably destroyed Burnley. They were there for the taking and Valencia could have used him really well.
And yes I think Rafael on the right today would have probably destroyed Burnley. They were there for the taking and Valencia could have used him really well.
I do agree that Valencia should have been selfish on more than one occasion and he probably sees himself still as inferior to Berbatov and Rooney when he should realise he is on a level par with them now.
He did however find Rooney and Berbatov on more than one occasion and if he had a striker who could head the ball, his assist rating would be off the chart.
Like I said with Nani, he didn't have a bad game. But he was ineffectual at times in the 2nd half and left Evra exposed. Burnley found most joy attacking our left flank and we had an unfit Gary Neville on the other side!
You know there might be a reason why Valencia got space more often than Nani, and that's because he knows how to play on the wing.
He's found himself in a lot of space a lot of times before, so it might not just be poor defending.
He's found himself in a lot of space a lot of times before, so it might not just be poor defending.
I think he is going to get a run in the team from now on. He was average today but Fergie might stick with him. If he doesnt perform then, his a goner.
It might also have to do with the fact that he's right footed, on the right wing.
Not right footed on the left wing, therefore natually needing to come inside onto his proper foot.
It seems like you are making a load of excuses for Nani. In fairness I am also guilty of that as well seeing as even though I said he had an average game it was to be expected given he is just a squad player and he has been off injured for a long while.
Valencia's crossing and cut backs even if Burnley found them eventually quite easy to deal with were always a threat. He maintained himself as more of a threat throughout the game. A lot of you seem to infer that finding space is easy when it's not particularly when you don't have your full back helping out as much as say Evra does. Valencia got bags of space largely due to his own running and positional sense. That's why the other players such sent the ball to him, not because they trust him less.
He was more a threat to himself.. Yes he made alot of opportunities but the guy can't cross!!
Brown, the fullback was was playing very far infield. I do agree that Valencia is good at sticking very wide and giving himself a bit more room but the defending at times was pretty comical.
As did Nani and more so. Hence why i'm saying Nani had a better game, espically as he didn't have as much space as Valencia. I'll also defend Nani again on the Burnley counterattacks, several of which occured after we had a set piece. A set piece that Nani was taking all game, so he'd find it pretty difficult to get back and help defend the counter considering he was taking the corner no? I'd simply call that good tactics by Burnley.
I see the anti- Nani brigade is back at it again? Punctual and reliable taking things away from him
A threat is only a threat if it has some end product. Nani looked a bit more likely to actually do something with the ball even though he didnt get the ball in dangerous areas nearly as much as Valencia who worked hard all game.
Just to refesh our memories a little, as I have to admit I probably didnt take absolutely everything in today.
Who had our best shot from outside the box today?
Nani had a decent one which was saved for a corner. I think Rooney might have had one but was it closer? I dont really remember. I think it was over the bar.
Who had our best cross of the match today?
For me that was easily Nani's left footed cross to Rooney who should have scored. Fantastic ball in.
Valencia on the other hand had a few decent pullbacks, a cross slightly behind the player in the box and a nice cross too far in front of Berbatov. He just wasnt as much of a threat to goal as Nani was. He was more involved overall though and did plenty of running with the ball. He just needed other players to take it from him once he got to the area.
The only reason Nani had more crosses in than Valencia was because he was taking all the corners. None of them were as good you would get from Giggs. Valencia's crosses in general for me found the head of Rooney and Berbatov more often than a Burnley player.
I didn't blame Nani for the counterattacks but it still remains that Burnley got their most joy from our left flank.
One thing about Nani. Maybe he is having a bad game but his final ball is deadly (That one to Rooney and the way his cross just dip is a great thing about him). I feel like he needs a run of games and I hope he gets it. Finally we had some sort of an attacking threat, cause Park isn't one. Sure he screwed up from time to time, but sitting on the bench is not going to help his decision making.
Valencia, once again to me didn't really do anything. The commentator was right, he looks for the easy option and he has no left foot whatsoever. He can't even dribble with it, he turns completely sideways and runs out of space. Fans don't rip into Valencia for the same crap performance but if Nani makes one mistake, they go nuts. Nani to me is more talented than Valencia and looks more of a United player than Valencia. Lets hope Fergie persists wit him because he has the technical ability, if he just gets the confidence and experience...he will get better.
Valencia, once again to me didn't really do anything. The commentator was right, he looks for the easy option and he has no left foot whatsoever. He can't even dribble with it, he turns completely sideways and runs out of space. Fans don't rip into Valencia for the same crap performance but if Nani makes one mistake, they go nuts. Nani to me is more talented than Valencia and looks more of a United player than Valencia. Lets hope Fergie persists wit him because he has the technical ability, if he just gets the confidence and experience...he will get better.
He is:
a) Our best dead-ball specialist (corners and free-kicks)
b) Our best long-range shot specialist.
c) Our most tricky winger.
All the above attributes help teams to win tight games. Hopefully he apologises to SAF, buries the hatchet with SAF and gets a run of a few games. We will all be suprised how well he can do.
Come on Nani.
Yeah...unlucky mate.
Could have gone either way.
Giggs is our best crosser, so comparing the two considering he didn't play this game makes no sense. Nani is a better crosser than Valencia. Also his crosses have more pace, I noticed with Giggs...his crosses are not what they were 5 years ago, they loop up more now.
Both Valencia and Nani provided a threat. Valencia provided a better one overall across the game.
Nani was good but again it was just in flashes and so doesn't deserve the tag of being MOTM which not even the people who are choosing him think he really was.
Personally Valencia's pullback for Berbatov should have meant a goal more so than Nani's cross as it was probably an easier chance.
Without Nani we drew our last PS game and with him we won it 3 nil.
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