So let me get this straight, playing on a wing where you have have to beat defenders consistently by yourself is easier than playing on a wing where more often than not you will have someone support you therefore making 1-2's easier and placing less emphasis on your individual skill?
Nani will reignite our charge to the title
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So let me get this straight, playing on a wing where you have have to beat defenders consistently by yourself is easier than playing on a wing where more often than not you will have someone support you therefore making 1-2's easier and placing less emphasis on your individual skill?
Why do you assume that people who weren't as impressed with a certain performance as you must 'hate Nani'? Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they have agendas.
Its a more simple task. You dont need to beat a man to put in a cross. You just receive the ball and make sure the cross goes into the box. Valencia tends to need to beat a man and does so plenty, whereas Nani can whip it round the defender without the need to beat him.
On the left you come into the middle to create space for Evra to attack, as you're coming into a more congested area its harder to create things from there unless you are someone like Giggs with great vision and very good derlivery. He comes inside and crosses from there or plays little passes in behind the defence. Nani finds it a lot tougher and tends to put in 'hopeful' crosses not always of the optimal technique for the receiving player. Some players are actually more dangerous coming inside onto their stronger foot and whipping curling crosses in but Nani is not one of those players. He can still put a very good cross into the box from wide left of the penalty area, but usually thats the space Evra is running into so he's not going to have that area to play from as much as he would have the area to the right of the box if he played on the right. As our right backs support play but arent a constant feature of our attack play.
A lot of people have admitted they dont like him. Thats probably what gave me that idea.
Si, something about having an evil head
Si, something about having an evil head
Yep. Good to know that our fans are only interested in what our players do on the pitch, rather than what they look like... Actually I'm really not surprised because a fair number of posters dont really seem to have much clue what happened on the pitch. It makes sense if they are actually taking notes and critiquing players' appearance instead.
But you assume they don't rate his play because they don't like him, did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, it's the other way round?
Did I say that every person who didnt think he had a good game in his good games on the left hated Nani?
No.
I said that the people who hate him can say that a good game wasnt such a good game, while they cant claim a great game wasnt such a good game. I didnt mention every single person who didnt rate a certain performance.
On the left you have more options to work with, you can go inside, you can go outside, you can play a 1-2 with Evra that puts you or him in the box, therefore more for a fullback to think about.
How on earth can not having attacking support be easier than having support? Against Arsenal he had to beat 3 people to cross for the 1st goal. He wouldn't need to do that on the left as Evra is up alongside him more often than not.
I see Ekeke is dragging this debate into one of his infamous parallel, logic-free, universes. A place where it actually makes sense to claim that playing on the same flank as the best left back in the league is a more difficult task for a winger than playing in front of an ever-changing motley crew of has-beens, crocks and raw new recruits.
Back in the real world, this can be clearly seen as the load of old bollox it really is.
Back in the real world, this can be clearly seen as the load of old bollox it really is.
Jesus you don't half flip flop around when questioned on something.
You started by talking about people who 'hate Nani' playing down his performances, and my point to you was that people who disagree with your opinions of his play in those games don't have to be people who hate him, they just don't necessarily rate him as high as you.
Why do you have to bring it down to 'haters'? I'm sure the people you're talking about were delighted with his good form recently and had no problem accepting it - not being too happy with his total output over his whole time here doesn't mean they hate him for god sake.
You have more incorrect passes to play.
Its not support on the left. Its part of our tactics for Evra to push on beyond our left winger and for our left winger to play inside. It's a feature of our attacking play. Thats why Nani, Park and Giggs all play inside. Its not a coincidence. And why whoever plays on the right keeps the width and plays more directly. Again, not a coincidence.
Its harder for a winger to cross from the area they have to come inside into than it is to cross from the right wing. Its a far more simple role. You get the ball and you put it into the box however you need to do that. Both Valencia and Nani have done that well. On the left after you come inside, you can try and play a tricky cross towards the box but its much harder from there, or you can just pass the ball and then as the ball is moved around onto the right you can be in the middle to act as a central player like Park, Giggs and Nani do. Its a less direct way of playing than on the right hand side with much more variety and a lot easier to lose the ball. So its not a surprise that Giggs and Park do it well as they are good with tactical discipline and movement off the ball. But not all wingers are as good as they are with those parts of the game.
You assumed I said something when I didn't. Its silly.
Again, I didnt say everyone who didnt rate his performances on the left hates him. I spoke specifically about people who hate him. You really should read whats actually written and not just assume.
Who said they did?
Honestly, whats the point of responding to you if you arent actually reading what was written? You've made a bunch of points that had nothing to do with what was said.
I didnt say that everyone who doesnt rate his performances on the left hates Nani. I said that the people who hate Nani (Notice I'm being specific to that group of people) can tell you that his good performances arent so good. But you cant mark down a great performance to a not very good performance. You have to give a player props when they play great. So everyone accepts that Nani is good on the right.
I'll point it out one more time so you don't get confused again. I'm talking specifically about people who hate Nani. Not every single person who doesnt rate some of Nani's better performances on the left. If I was talking about everyone, I would have said so. I don't need you to insert it into the conversation for me.
You dont really understand football do you? Why dont you just admit it? I'm sure there are other things you are actually good at.
Another Mcfeckwit classic! Having more options is apparently a bad thing now because "you have more incorrect passes to play"
You couldn't make this shit up. Sometimes I think he's a second account being run as a cunning parody by Spoony.
feck me, you really are incapable of simple conversation. I assumed you said people hate Nani. Which you did.
I didn't say that you said that. I'm talking specifically about your use of the term 'people who hate Nani'. I'm saying that the people you're talking about don't 'hate' him, and that you using that as a way to discredit them doesn't work, it just make you just like the polar opposite. Fanboy I believe is the term.
Not really, I've taken issue with your use of one term, and you've got your knickers in a twist and started flip flopping.
Lets get this straight; my only point here has been that the specific group of people you deem to hate Nani, don't hate Nani. Is that one sentence on it's own simple enough for you to comprehend? Or should I try and draw a diagram to make it easier for you?
Nah, you were asserting that I said anyone who doesnt rate him on the left hates Nani. Thats not true, I've no idea why you felt the need to say that.
But there are people who do hate Nani, some admitting they dont like him because of how he looks. I only refered to those people.
Less options = predictability = easier to mark.
How is it harder for a winger to cross when they come inside because they don't have to worry about space and the byline and the technique is exactly the same and you would hit the ball with the exact same spot of your boot as you would if you crossed from the right?
There is simply no excuse for Nani to be poor on the left because he would have better support, the crossing technique is exactly the same plus it gives him the added opportunity of unleashing a shot.
I think Nani feels more comfortable on the right, which is difficult given Valencia's world class form at the moment. I would prefer a proper LW who is anchored to the left.
On the left you have to think more if you're a right footer, the best inside out wingers have been great thinkers.. thats Nanis problem, he lacks a brain.
He has the oppurtunity to shoot, pass Evra, come inside ..go outside, and it just gets too much for him.
On the right, he plays on instinct, go outside cross it in.. crossing angle is much easier for him.
Valencia would look shit on the left, so I don't get why Nani is lambasted for not being effective in a position which doesn't get the best out of him.
Agree with the below. We visibly play differently down the left with our wingers no matter who is out there. Evra is usually the one that is out widest. On the right typically it is the winger.
Nani hasn't been as good on the left but, I agree the way we use our left wingers on left contributes to that.
Nani hasn't been as good on the left but, I agree the way we use our left wingers on left contributes to that.
He can also play the left on instict, he recieves the ball with on his left, one touch to switch it to the right and then swing it in.
Valencia has talent limitations that Nani doesn't, but he's outperforming him on the right anyway why should he have to make way for Nani.
The area Nani receives the ball on the left is not the same advanced position he'd get the ball on the right. Because Evra overlaps and becomes the "left winger", so Nani and Park play from an indented position. Inside left so to speak. From that position its hard to get the weight and accuracy of a cross right. Its easy to overhit it and not give the player in the box a good chance to contact it. Or in Nani's case he tends to underhit it a bit and it makes the defending header easy. This is probably a result of worrying about overhitting the cross which he also does on occasion. It's just more difficult and a different task to putting in outswinging crosses from the right hand side and we dont make as much use of the best thing Nani has in his makeup.
On the right hand side Nani can put in all sorts of top draw crosses. He doesnt need to beat his man, he can bend it round him and still put it on a plate for the striker in the middle a bit like Beckham. Obviously he doesnt have the regularity of great delivery that Beckham had. And he doesnt have the same regularity of chance creation from the right that Valencia has. But when Nani gets it right, and he can get it right from more areas on the right hand side than Valencia and put in crosses that even Rooney didnt think were possible, when Nani does get it right the cross puts a goal on a silver platter for him as long as he anticipated the cross.
Valencia on the other hand creates more difficult chances, but chances none the less and Rooney is in such great form that he only needs to be given difficult chances and he'll still score. And because he creates these harder chances more often than Nani creates chances he could be seen as a better supply line. A lesser striker might need Nani's sublime but not as consistant delivery to score goals game after game. But Rooney doesn't need 'free goals'. He just needs a bunch of half decent chances and thats what Valencia gives more than Nani. He gives Rooney more chances to score and score he does.
Nani lit the match but became so enamored in his own personal glory of lighting the match that he forgot to light the fire.
Where Nani receives the ball is up to him. If he peels off his marker and makes an advanced run into space he will be found. Same way Giggs, Park, Obertan and Ronaldo got the ball in pretty advanced positions playing on the left.
It's easier for defenders to defend balls swung in front of them than from behind them that much is true. It does make it harder for Nani to cross in but at the same time if he over-hits it, it can sail in. Are you suggesting he can't under or over-hit while swinging it in from the right?
I don't see how hard it is to peel off your marker, receive a ball from Scholes, control it and swing it round the defender inside. If he can do it from the right he can do it from the left.
All thus mumbo jumbo about "free goals" and tough chances is rubbish. You can hardly quantify that and anyone can produce a few anecdotal examples of both players providing difficult and easier chances for the strikers.
Nani will score against AC Milan, and it's going to be a wondergoal
I thought that it shouldnt be a problem for him to transform his form from the right to the left wing but it really seems as though he feels much more comfortable on the right.
That would be a pity though, but let's see he already has shown some good performances on the left, probably just wasnt his day yesterday.
BTW: Many of you thought that Berbatov did really good yesterday? Thought he was decent at best. As lone striker he seems to be completety isolated and lost.
That would be a pity though, but let's see he already has shown some good performances on the left, probably just wasnt his day yesterday.
BTW: Many of you thought that Berbatov did really good yesterday? Thought he was decent at best. As lone striker he seems to be completety isolated and lost.
He shouldn't, I just think we should accept that Nani is a backup winger for Valencia, rather than a complementary winger on the other wing.
We should be looking to sign an out and out left footed left winger, it would take our play to a new level.
A bit like Rooney, most times we've played 451 this season. Short memories in evidence on here, as usual.
A couple of inspired team performances (with players like Nani and Park playing out of their skin) and everyone's forgotten that we've really struggled to be effective with a loan striker a number of times this season. In fact, the game yesterday reminded me of when we lined up with Valencia and Nani in a 433 in a European away (maybe against Wolfsburg?) earlier this season when we were toothless, with Rooney completely isolated and no support or service at all from midfield. The same thing happened a few times this season.
Of course, when it's Rooney struggling up top, everyone blames the tactics or the midfield. When Berbatov encounters the same problems it's all his fault. That's the way this place rolls.
Rooney has generally scored goals when we've played 1 up front. Looking lost is about as far from the truth as you could possibly get. Unsurprising.
Well, it's time for an opinion on Nani. I have shied away from making a judgement because I wanted to give the lad a chance, see if he could prove the doubters wrong, become a good Man United winger...
Unfortunately, and I'm sorry to say it, he is simply not good enough. His consistency is appalling. You're looking at a guy who might play well in 1 out of 5 or 6 games. You only have to look at the way his team mates react every time he fecks up. That is pretty indicative to me.
I don't hate the guy and I'm not into bashing United players and have never done so on this board. I just don't think Nani has or will ever have what it takes.
Unfortunately, and I'm sorry to say it, he is simply not good enough. His consistency is appalling. You're looking at a guy who might play well in 1 out of 5 or 6 games. You only have to look at the way his team mates react every time he fecks up. That is pretty indicative to me.
I don't hate the guy and I'm not into bashing United players and have never done so on this board. I just don't think Nani has or will ever have what it takes.
That's pretty much my opinion...just not good enough and no-ware near consistent enough.
Where did I say it was his fault? I never said something like that. And of course Rooney went through the same problems more than once when played lone up front. And actually he did get slack for that, people started threads about where our Rooney was and if he has already peaked some time ago (remember?)
It's mainly down to our CM not performing and giving our striker enough support as well as getting not enough balls from the wings.
He wasnt bad, don't get me wrong Pogue, I thought he was decent, but not great or excellent. Not his fault though, I agree.
Our performance as a whole was pretty shit I thought.
Carrick, Brown, Nani and Gibson (better than the former though) all had an off day in my opinion.
Look at the fachts.
Played inconsistently shite on the left for the best part of 3 years.
Moved to the right hand side against City and Arsenal - carried a major, consistent threat.
Moved back to the left....inconsistently shite once again...
In conclusion: Play one of Valencia or Nani...not both...
Played inconsistently shite on the left for the best part of 3 years.
Moved to the right hand side against City and Arsenal - carried a major, consistent threat.
Moved back to the left....inconsistently shite once again...
In conclusion: Play one of Valencia or Nani...not both...
Here's some more "fachts".
The games against City and Arsenal were not the first time he's played on the right.
Nor were they the only good games in his United career.
To sum up, he's capable of being shit and excellent, on the right and on the left.
In conclusion: he needs to become more consistent. Hopefully he will be. He's yong and lernin, after all.
He's always been more consistent on the right though, Pogue. Even SAF mentioned something about it a few weeks ago, saying how well he's done since getting a run on the right.
Some players are equally at home on either side. Most however, are more comfortable on one side or the other. Can you imagine Giggs spending most of his career on the right, for instance? Beckham left, Valencia left, etc?
Nani seems to think he is one who is equally at home on either side as he has previously said he prefers the left, but on performances he has always been more consistent on the right.
I have hope that he can develop to the point where he is consistently excellent on the left. But you can't ignore the fact that up to this point, he has been better on the right.
Some players are equally at home on either side. Most however, are more comfortable on one side or the other. Can you imagine Giggs spending most of his career on the right, for instance? Beckham left, Valencia left, etc?
Nani seems to think he is one who is equally at home on either side as he has previously said he prefers the left, but on performances he has always been more consistent on the right.
I have hope that he can develop to the point where he is consistently excellent on the left. But you can't ignore the fact that up to this point, he has been better on the right.
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