How do you work that one out?
No
It’s always like this in the FF
Mykhaylo Mudryk
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
How do you work that one out?
No
It’s always like this in the FF
I generally have no problem with this in day to day life. I wouldn’t say that word even if it was in a song I liked, it’s not hard to avoid.
The problem I have is why the FA think it’s any of their business. Would they ban the player if he was black? If not then they’re just making it up as they go along aren’t they.
I don’t think that’s what it suggests, the profile of the individual is always going to make a difference. A black person using the n word is different to a non black person using it. If I had a friend who made an edgy joke about Jewish people, I would see it differently if they themselves weren’t Jewish as opposed to a friend who was Jewish making the joke. And this sort of thing goes for any identity.
The Cavani situation was much more of a case imo where the FA were winging it.
I just don’t think it’s the FA’s job to be legislating such things. It’s absolutely fine for people to decide not to use that word, judge others for doing so etc. That’s for society to work out among themselves. It’s not for an organisation like the FA to make that distinction though. ‘We’ll punish a white person for something we wouldn’t punish a black person for’. How are they supposed to put that in the rulebook? And if it’s not in their rules then they literally are just making it up.
Your employer can make that distinction and in this case, a football club is under the jurisdiction of a football association. Simple as.
I don't think it's a big enough deal to ban a person, but why are we debating why white people can't say the N-word? It's frankly a weird debate to have. Just don't say it in public and you are fine. Let us have our word ffs
EDIT: The NFL tried to ban this word for everyone and of course it didn't work
EDIT: I use the word flagrantly, but I grew up around it and can't help myself
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I didn’t realise we were?
Also, the FA aren’t Mudryk’s employer, Chelsea are. If Chelsea wanted to ban him that would be different, and totally up to them. The FA just making up rules and imposing them without precedence is just a bit weird.
Not to wade into this minefield, but where is the line drawn? Mudryk is a terrible example because he's as white as white gets, but if he's white-passing but biracial can he use that word in conversation? If he's light skinned with one Black grandparent can he sing along to it in a song?
I just want to make it clear that I don't think white people can or should say the N-word - but how is this being defined? In the NFL, people gave Mike McDaniel a lot of shit because he talked about his connection to his Black roots - just because he's mostly white-passing.
I dunno, maybe I'm rambling here - but as a biracial person (albeit not of Black descent), I find a lot of the definitive statements made in these sorts of debates to be totally arbitrary.
I agree with your point of view that they should stay out of it. The "bringing the game into disrepute" rule has done a lot of heavy lifting over the years... Like when Rooney got banned for swearing, something players do in every PL match!
My bad. Didn't mean to accuse you.
Chelsea are under the jurisdiction of the FA, so I'm not sure what the problem is.
There aren't hard fast rules and just a bunch of gray areas. I know that is non-answer but that's just the way it is.
For instance, in the US, non-white (mostly Hispanic and Asian) people who grow up in the inner city use the word, and a lot of times they get a pass, but in different circles, they will be called out. Personally, I don't get offended b/c the word is so ubiquitous in music. As long as it isn't directed toward me, I don't care. If someone I know uses the word in that same context of Mudryk I tell them that I won't hold it against them, but they should be careful and just not say it. Then again, most white people I hang with know better.
I can't speak for the UK but it really triggers black Americans when I white person says it, for obvious reasons.
Are there any examples of black players using the word and not getting punished?
Im not a POC, but I agree entirely with the above.
Focus on the real issue. This is just stupid.
Evra was playing for us when this video of him from 2004 surfaced in 2012. Warning: N word.
That said, social media was in its infancy. I’m pretty convinced the FA just goes whichever way the wind is blowing on these things.
Very much appreciate what you're saying and I know you're right mate. I lived in NYC (specifically Washington Heights) for 8 years or so, so I have some first-hand experience (though obviously I can't fully comprehend your experience).
I have more or less the same reaction you do if someone does a stereotypical east Asian accent or something - if they're quoting South Park in order to say "shitty wok" then it's not a big deal; if they're using it to poke fun at an actual person they've interacted with I think I'd find that problematic? Not that I've ever had to deal with this amongst those I've hung out with.
Don't know if I have an overall thesis to this post but I just find it all a bit over the top and arbitrary. That said, Mudryk was obviously an idiot for doing what he did, but in a way that seems to me to be not only lacking in malice but to be a weird and idiotic attempt at a tribute, if that makes sense? I guess my point is that intent matters and should be taken into consideration to the extent that it is possible - and if we are deciding that there are no statutes of limitations I'd be very keen to see the credentials of those who are making these judgements at the FA.
Completely agree with the bolded. For me, racism is about the system of oppression that exists, not one-off instances of people saying the N-word without malice. Racist chants and abuse are in a whole different bucket than this and it's weird seeing them treated the same. However, I can see why the FA would rather be inconsistent than let it slide.
As an aside, I actually wish I would stop saying that word, but as I said before, I grew up with it, and old habits die hard.
If you’re not Black simply don’t use the word, it’s fecking simple ffs.
Cavani got shafted for less by the FA.
Fully agreed and again appreciate you sharing your perspective. I work in a healthcare-adjacent field and I would consider the huge variations in outcomes based on race to be a colossally important race-related problem, not something like this that will catch headlines and be clickbaity.
I also think your last sentence is very relevant - intent hugely matters in this whole discussion in my opinion. Would strongly prefer that the FA convene a diverse panel and make public their discussions over these sorts of incidents - it would help to educate the public at the very least, I'd think.
Fair enough, I’d be surprised if the fa let this slide in the current climate, regardless of the player’s race.
It's even worse when they use it themselves. No inteligent black man should ever have that word in their vocabulary. Modern day "rappers" are braindead anyway.
So, the problem is it’s such a common greeting, lyric, word of bonding ? At least here in the states. I remember the argument used to be that people were “taking back the power” of the word , and it has all just caused cr@p, teally.
We had a kid in the states, a quarterback prospect signed with a University, singing along to a very popular song with two black teammates and caught on video. Lost his scholarship. He apologized profusely, All of that
The coach and Deans at two HBCUs (historically black collegiate universities) offered the kid scholarships to play QB at their schools (he was going power 5 SEC before), and the reasoning, which I found thoughtful was that what EVERYONE needed was more intelligent and thoughtful communication. Being a fan of cultural music does not excuse you from using terms, but my generation caused this by creating artificial divisions and popular lexicons based on your race and ethnicity. It got to the absurd point where people were trying to specifically measure wether people of mixed ethnicity were “black enough” “Latin enough” or “Asian enough for certain popular slang in multiple genres.
The whole thing has gotten ridiculous. And the record companies especially should be ashamed. It used to be a poignant addition to give reality to the experience in a song like “NY State of mind”; Nas. Now it’s every third word and trite, and it has to be confusing, especially to a non native speaker introduced to music he likes by teammates.
Like the HBCU dean I think communication and education is the key, and it’s time to get rid of gratuitous use of racist slang as “cool”
We had a kid in the states, a quarterback prospect signed with a University, singing along to a very popular song with two black teammates and caught on video. Lost his scholarship. He apologized profusely, All of that
The coach and Deans at two HBCUs (historically black collegiate universities) offered the kid scholarships to play QB at their schools (he was going power 5 SEC before), and the reasoning, which I found thoughtful was that what EVERYONE needed was more intelligent and thoughtful communication. Being a fan of cultural music does not excuse you from using terms, but my generation caused this by creating artificial divisions and popular lexicons based on your race and ethnicity. It got to the absurd point where people were trying to specifically measure wether people of mixed ethnicity were “black enough” “Latin enough” or “Asian enough for certain popular slang in multiple genres.
The whole thing has gotten ridiculous. And the record companies especially should be ashamed. It used to be a poignant addition to give reality to the experience in a song like “NY State of mind”; Nas. Now it’s every third word and trite, and it has to be confusing, especially to a non native speaker introduced to music he likes by teammates.
Like the HBCU dean I think communication and education is the key, and it’s time to get rid of gratuitous use of racist slang as “cool”
I think they have to have some say in legislating this kind of stuff, the FA are the governing body of football here and as such the players representatives. It's no different to any organisation you work for really. If I uploaded a video using the word I'd be facing disciplinary measures, and thinking about it though I can't say for sure they'd probably treat it differently than if a black colleague did it also.
With regards to that distinction it's obviously not codified in writing but that kind of practice isn't uncommon, it's impossible to legislate for every and any scenario. If you use abusive/intimidating language on the pitch you can be cautioned, but the ref is going to view it differently if it's directed at a teammate as opposed to an opposition player, even though there's no mention of this distinction in the rules. That's obviously a completely different scenario but just highlighting that the rules aren't meant to be all encompassing in their writing.
Obviously we just disagree on what the FA should be allowed to legislate on/distinctions they can make so it's just a matter of opinions
It's not a matter of intelligence. Some black people use the word as a result of feeling to them that it takes back the power of the word. You might think that it shouldn't be the case but it has nothing to do with their intellectual capabilities, they just view it in a different manner to you.
Completely agree. Ironically enough the guy below this exact post used that argument..
That's not what ironic means. Also it's what happened, it's not some theory.
There's a long history of marginalised groups reclaiming slurs, it's a pretty observable standard phenomenon
They are wrong. As simple as that. As Michael Jay White said himself, if you have enough love and respect for yourself you do not use that word period. Even many who used it on a regular basis had wake up moments and stopped using it, Richard Pryor an example. It's really not anything complicated, it's a derogatory word used to belittle and shame them and it should have been buried in the past where it belongs.
What @Bluelion7 said in that great post is completely correct.
End of thread for me. Not more needs to be said after that.
End of thread for me. Not more needs to be said after that.
Are you black? Because I can understand feeling that way if you are, but if you're a non black person telling black people what sort of relationship they should have with the word then that's obviously nonsensical. I used to be involved with a disabled cricket team, and they gave the team a nickname which was based on a derogatory word for a physical disability. The same thought process involved in which they reclaimed a word that historically had been used to belittle them, took the power out of it. I can't imagine as a non disabled person telling them that actually no they shouldn't do that and they're unintelligent as a result.
Get what you are saying but the argument it not valid, it is not comparable to the n word which has a very long dark history attached to it and is a constant reminder of one of the worst periods black people went through. Either way I am done with this discussion now. Mods should actually lock it. We went from discussing Mudryk as a player to now labelling him a racist and going into subjects that do not belong here.
Someone please lock this or make a separate thread for people to discuss this subject that derailed the thread...
Silly, ignorant take.
You are even admitting it here yourself that you acknowledge saying it it wrong and you really don't want to but claim it is a habit....
Literally not a single person has labelled him a racist. And you can leave the thread or not mate, you don't have to keep announcing it
Has nothing to do with a person's level of intelligence and to insinuate that is absurd. If you aren't black it's even more egregious.
Doubles down on an inane take and then tries to shut down the discussion. Cue the collective eye rolls.Literally not a single person has labelled him a racist. And you can leave the thread or not mate, you don't have to keep announcing it
Ban ban ban
What's your ethnicity, out of curiousity?
Moving on and forgetting the past is exactly how we land in these situations.
What about old(er) school rappers then. There´s hundreds of them extremely inteligent, ´having enough love and respect for themselves´, whose rhymes are full of n-word.. Do you consider yourself more inteligent than the likes of Q-Tip, Common, Guru (rip), Black Thought etc?
(sorry mods for keeping this off topic)
This is so incorrect I don't even know where to start.
Fecking hell. This thread 