Mykhaylo Mudryk | Reported - Failed doping test

Buxton said:
No chance, Arteta isnt that daft, he wanted Mudryk for the long term, dont think he can be expected to dominate the premier league fresh from playing in Ukraine, which is what Martinelli is doing every week, but next season arsenal could play 60 games, cant do that with 11 players, so depth in the forward areas is needed and he wouldve fit the bill. I imagine Arteta wouldve changed his position at times as well, not just played him as left winger.
Dont think chelsea have the manager, the midfield, or the set up, to get the best out of him, but will be intriguing to see.
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By pretty quickly I guess I meant by the start of next season, if you had signed him in this window. Not within a couple of games. I think Martinelli is good and he fits Arsenal like a glove but I also think he's somewhat a limited player, hence why you often see teams focus the majority of their attention on Saka on the other side often leaving him one on one with his full back or with acres of space to ghost into the box, which to his credit he has taken full advantage of this season. It's a position I thought Arsenal could/should improve on and it didn't surprise me one bit that they went so hard after Mudryk.

But hey, you know your players and team better than I do. It's just what I've observed watching Arsenal this season.
 
WeePat said:
The CEO did mention some friendly matches between Shakhtar and Chelsea, one in London and in Donetsk where the proceeds from those games would go to aiding Ukraine in the ongoing war. I don't know if they want to allow themselves to be co-opted into a system that is designed to feed and sustain Chelsea. They'll have too much pride in themselves and their history, and rightly so. I wish this feeder club idea would just die. I hate it with a passion.
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Yeah, not a fan of it myself, i must admit. Going back to the Shakhtar CEO, i do find it a bit weird he's being so public about this though, interviews all over UK media like Talksport almost defending the buying club, Srna being a guest for the City game perhaps not so strange but flying back with Mudryk after the deal was struck on a Chelsea owners private jet and being at the ground with his unveiling etc i've never really heard of before as well.

And if the offers were so close in terms of the fee's and structures of the deal, and the wages on offer to Mudryk, why totally dismiss 1 over the other considering the players previous twerking for Arsenal for months, interviews with Zinchenko's wife etc, and bear in mind Arsenal were in contact with him outlining their plans for him all that time. Everything coming out just now just seems a bit weird. Plus the speed Chelsea swooped in, got the deal done, flew the player back accompanied by both officials of Chelsea and Shkahtar makes me wonder if there was some gentle pressure put on the player to get this deal done for some reason.

Anyway, i need to let this lad go. I'm in danger of sounding like a lovesick teenager! :lol: Just wondering if some other non Chelsea fans find it a bit strange as well?
 
GoonerBear said:
Basically you pitched yourselves much better than we did. From the outside the impression I get is that we were working against Shakhtar to try and get the best deal for ourselves, while when you came in you worked with them to make sure you got the deal done.

We need to learn lessons about that moving forward, competition is so fierce now.
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Yeah, that's how I see it too. One thing I'll say about our new owners is they seem really good at talking a big game but maybe because they're American that part just comes naturally to them?

Still yet to see how their grand plan comes into fruition and it will probably take a good few years minimum till we can get to that point anyway. There have obviously been some struggles but overall some reason for optimism too, just need to hope the owners can avoid having too many expensive mishaps while they're still learning the game.
 
Buxton said:
The problem for us is we couldn’t give the same add on conditions as Chelsea. They’ve put down CL qualifying and winning premier league as add ons, knowing that they probably won’t have to pay that for a long time . If we put that as add on it means we may have to pay up in the summer.
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It would probably be largely winning the PL and UCL, the latter of which you'd have never had to pay.
 
Dancfc said:
It would probably be largely winning the PL and UCL, the latter of which you'd have never had to pay.
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About 6 months ago, you'd have said either of which we wouldn't have to pay. Not so cocky on that part nopw though eh? ;)
 
Buxton said:
No chance, Arteta isnt that daft, he wanted Mudryk for the long term, dont think he can be expected to dominate the premier league fresh from playing in Ukraine, which is what Martinelli is doing every week, but next season arsenal could play 60 games, cant do that with 11 players, so depth in the forward areas is needed and he wouldve fit the bill. I imagine Arteta wouldve changed his position at times as well, not just played him as left winger.
Dont think chelsea have the manager, the midfield, or the set up, to get the best out of him, but will be intriguing to see.
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Martinelli has been really good, but to say he's dominating the league is nonsense.
I agree with everything else though. Mudryk would have sat on the bench more often than not in Arsenal. But I feel that would still be a better career move than current Chelsea. We will see though.
 
WeePat said:
By pretty quickly I guess I meant by the start of next season, if you had signed him in this window. Not within a couple of games. I think Martinelli is good and he fits Arsenal like a glove but I also think he's somewhat a limited player, hence why you often see teams focus the majority of their attention on Saka on the other side often leaving him one on one with his full back or with acres of space to ghost into the box, which to his credit he has taken full advantage of this season. It's a position I thought Arsenal could/should improve on and it didn't surprise me one bit that they went so hard after Mudryk.

But hey, you know your players and team better than I do. It's just what I've observed watching Arsenal this season.
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yes I agree. I think the move was to eventually compete strongly with Martinelli in the firstXI. His skill set is somewhat limited compared to Saka
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:


Generally find these videos to be pretty good and informative. Also a nice shoutout to @Raees in there!

Much as I still have doubts about the wisdom of this signing, the idiot part of my brain is also very excited to see fast guy go brrrrrrrrrr against Trent this weekend...
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As if they gave us a shout out :lol: ... Trent on paper seems a bad match up, wonder if he will get selected though after their game against Wolves.
 
Raees said:
As if they gave us a shout out :lol: ... Trent on paper seems a bad match up, wonder if he will get selected though after their game against Wolves.
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Sorry do I have my wires crossed? I thought you ran the Pythagoras in Boots account on YouTube that he mentioned towards the end (specifically with regard to Mudryk's passing brainfarts). Apologies if I'm mistaken!
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Sorry do I have my wires crossed? I thought you ran the Pythagoras in Boots account on YouTube that he mentioned towards the end (specifically with regard to Mudryk's passing brainfarts). Apologies if I'm mistaken!
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No wires crossed - that is my video but just shocked that’s all!
 
Raees said:
No wires crossed - that is my video but just shocked that’s all!
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Ah totally mis-read your initial post there sorry!

Been a subscriber for some time now - would definitely agree with JJ that your videos are excellently done. Hope you keep doing what you're doing and getting more and more exposure!
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Ah totally mis-read your initial post there sorry!

Been a subscriber for some time now - would definitely agree with JJ that your videos are excellently done. Hope you keep doing what you're doing and getting more and more exposure!
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Thanks mate - much appreciated!
 
WeePat said:
I think Mudryk would displace Martinelli pretty quickly. In fact I think it's a position Arsenal should improve on when they get the chance, and I think they will.

I have tagged my own post from before we signed him when it looked like he was certain to sign for Arsenal, just preempt accusations of Chelsea bias :D

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mykhailo-mudryk-signs-8-5yr-deal-at-chelsea.474700/post-29965859
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I like Mudryk and am annoyed that you gazumped us for him but this is really underrating Martinelli, who is currently the joint third leading goalscorer in the PL among wide players at 21 (six months younger than Mudryk), arguably one of the best 3-4 pressing forwards in the league as well, and by all accounts has a fantastic mentality in terms of training and self-improvement. Arsenal need to be able to rotate him and Saka and be able to play roughly the same way, but its really not a spot in the starting lineup in which they are crying out for improvement.
 
If he went for let's say 50m I would not mind him here at all. I will admit I have not watched much of him, but the few games I've seen he is incredibly quick and you just instantly see he's one of those exciting players who can make things happen with his pace and trickery. Doing good in the PL however is a completely different thing. IMO that's where the real test lies and where so many fail. To become succesfull in this league demands special talent.

I still can't believe he costed so much!!!
 
Powderfinger said:
I like Mudryk and am annoyed that you gazumped us for him but this is really underrating Martinelli, who is currently the joint third leading goalscorer in the PL among wide players at 21 (six months younger than Mudryk), arguably one of the best 3-4 pressing forwards in the league as well, and by all accounts has a fantastic mentality in terms of training and self-improvement. Arsenal need to be able to rotate him and Saka and be able to play roughly the same way, but its really not a spot in the starting lineup in which they are crying out for improvement.
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Agree with this. If anything I think the point for Arsenal to buy Mudryk was to ensure there was width down the left side given that you are now far less reliant on Tierney overlapping to occupy that wide channel. I always thought the move for Arsenal was to replace Nketiah, who remains a more than adequate backup, presser, and penalty box presence but probably isn't good enough to raise the ceiling of the team. A side with Mudryk and Martinelli exchanging positions and providing a constant threat down the left is a far scarier prospect to deal with.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Agree with this. If anything I think the point for Arsenal to buy Mudryk was to ensure there was width down the left side given that you are now far less reliant on Tierney overlapping to occupy that wide channel. I always thought the move for Arsenal was to replace Nketiah, who remains a more than adequate backup, presser, and penalty box presence but probably isn't good enough to raise the ceiling of the team. A side with Mudryk and Martinelli exchanging positions and providing a constant threat down the left is a far scarier prospect to deal with.
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I think that's exactly right. We need a wide player who can do roughly the same things as Martinelli - even if at a slightly lower level - so that we can play the same way when he is rotated. Its not an easy position to fill because the player has to be pacy and a 1-v-1 threat enough to pin the defense by playing high and wide when we're starting to build up, be comfortable as the widest attacker when we've moved into possession in the opposing half (we basically never overlap the fullback when Zinchenko plays), and also able to collapse into the box and be a goal scoring threat.

Since last summer we've gone after three players for this role - first Raphinha, then Pedro Neto, then Mudryk - and they all share similar qualities.
 
GoonerBear said:
And if the offers were so close in terms of the fee's and structures of the deal, and the wages on offer to Mudryk, why totally dismiss 1 over the other considering the players previous twerking for Arsenal for months, interviews with Zinchenko's wife etc, and bear in mind Arsenal were in contact with him outlining their plans for him all that time. Everything coming out just now just seems a bit weird. Plus the speed Chelsea swooped in, got the deal done, flew the player back accompanied by both officials of Chelsea and Shkahtar makes me wonder if there was some gentle pressure put on the player to get this deal done for some reason.
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I can twerk for McDonald's as much as I like because it's familiar and maybe it's all I can afford, but if someone offered me a free meal and the choice was McDonald's or a meal at a Michelin star restaurant - well, I'm putting on my fancy sneakers. We're all mercenaries at the end of the day.
 
Powderfinger said:
I think that's exactly right. We need a wide player who can do roughly the same things as Martinelli - even if at a slightly lower level - so that we can play the same way when he is rotated. Its not an easy position to fill because the player has to be pacy and a 1-v-1 threat enough to pin the defense by playing high and wide when we're starting to build up, be comfortable as the widest attacker when we've moved into possession in the opposing half (we basically never overlap the fullback when Zinchenko plays), and also able to collapse into the box and be a goal scoring threat.

Since last summer we've gone after three players for this role - first Raphinha, then Pedro Neto, then Mudryk - and they all share similar qualities.
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Yep fully agree. Honestly I think someone like Marcus Thuram might make a lot of sense for you at this point - given that he can play in those wide areas (albeit not as efficiently as Martinelli) and also at striker so Jesus can be properly rotated when he's fit again (and you could even do some adventurous things with a 4-4-2 with Martinelli / Saka wide with Thuram staying high for transitions and Jesus dropping deeper to pull away defenders).
 
Powderfinger said:
I like Mudryk and am annoyed that you gazumped us for him but this is really underrating Martinelli, who is currently the joint third leading goalscorer in the PL among wide players at 21 (six months younger than Mudryk), arguably one of the best 3-4 pressing forwards in the league as well, and by all accounts has a fantastic mentality in terms of training and self-improvement. Arsenal need to be able to rotate him and Saka and be able to play roughly the same way, but its really not a spot in the starting lineup in which they are crying out for improvement.
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Yeah Martinelli is doing really well this season but as I said he seems fairly limited and a player I think you could improve on, not as priority or anything but a position Arsenal could eventually do better in than him, and I think they identified Mudryk as that guy. Perhaps I am underrating him, you've watched him way more than I have, but I honestly don't see him being a starter at Arsenal long term if you continue on this path of improvement and challenging.
 
BlueHaze said:
If he went for let's say 50m I would not mind him here at all. I will admit I have not watched much of him, but the few games I've seen he is incredibly quick and you just instantly see he's one of those exciting players who can make things happen with his pace and trickery. Doing good in the PL however is a completely different thing. IMO that's where the real test lies and where so many fail. To become succesfull in this league demands special talent.

I still can't believe he costed so much!!!
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He went for 70, not that much over 50. The rest is based on winning the league or champions League.
 
BlueHaze said:
If he went for let's say 50m I would not mind him here at all. I will admit I have not watched much of him, but the few games I've seen he is incredibly quick and you just instantly see he's one of those exciting players who can make things happen with his pace and trickery. Doing good in the PL however is a completely different thing. IMO that's where the real test lies and where so many fail. To become succesfull in this league demands special talent.

I still can't believe he costed so much!!!
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No it doesn't. There are special talents who failed and lesser talents who succeeded in the EPL. Pretty much like in every other league out there.

Mudryk is a special talent, though.


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Maradona-esque touch (only first few scenes worth watching)
 
WeePat said:
Yeah Martinelli is doing really well this season but as I said he seems fairly limited and a player I think you could improve on, not as priority or anything but a position Arsenal could eventually do better in than him, and I think they identified Mudryk as that guy. Perhaps I am underrating him, you've watched him way more than I have, but I honestly don't see him being a starter at Arsenal long term if you continue on this path of improvement and challenging.
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Both Martinelli and Saka need competition for their position otherwise they will become complacent. Assume we will qualify for next season's CL we need more depth to share the workload as well. In an ideal world it would be awesome if we can find one that can play in both wings.
 
This is the winger we should have brought instead of antony.

Direct, very very quick and two footed. Looks a special talent.

 
UsualSuspect said:
I can twerk for McDonald's as much as I like because it's familiar and maybe it's all I can afford, but if someone offered me a free meal and the choice was McDonald's or a meal at a Michelin star restaurant - well, I'm putting on my fancy sneakers. We're all mercenaries at the end of the day.
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I'd understand your analogy if talking about the original wage stories of Chelsea offering double wages of Arsenal were what we were talking about, but we are talking about the story that supposedly there wasn't a big difference in the contract offer between the 2. Unless you are comparing Arsenal as a club and Chelsea to a Micheln start restaurant which I don't get either.

Also signing that contract for 8.5 years, you would assume there are incentives or ways to increase wages in that time, otherwise you might be getting paid below market rate in 2 or 3 years.
 
Zehner said:
No it doesn't. There are special talents who failed and lesser talents who succeeded in the EPL. Pretty much like in every other league out there.

Mudryk is a special talent, though.
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Pretty much. It was a terrible take. Though young wingers in particular are very difficult to predict. There are plenty of examples of wide players tearing up lower leagues and youth games but join a decent league and fade away. Even Sancho who did well in Germany has struggled since moving to United and the German standard is decent. I think they need teams that play to their strengths rather than moulding the player to the teams.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
Both Martinelli and Saka need competition for their position otherwise they will become complacent. Assume we will qualify for next season's CL we need more depth to share the workload as well. In an ideal world it would be awesome if we can find one that can play in both wings.
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Not only that but without competition they’ll very likely suffer from fatigue and their form will start to dip as we get towards the end of the season. They’re young players yes but they still need to be managed correctly.
 
It was funny that the Mudryk was posing in an Arsenal shirt hours before the press conference, even he wasn’t prepared for the eleventh hour gazump by Chelsea.
 
WeePat said:
Yeah Martinelli is doing really well this season but as I said he seems fairly limited and a player I think you could improve on, not as priority or anything but a position Arsenal could eventually do better in than him, and I think they identified Mudryk as that guy. Perhaps I am underrating him, you've watched him way more than I have, but I honestly don't see him being a starter at Arsenal long term if you continue on this path of improvement and challenging.
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Who knows what the future brings in terms of the development of both players. But in terms of how Arsenal has approached this transfer, it has always been a case of wanting another player to rotate and compete with Martinelli and Saka. I think in general the club believes in competition and signing players who will challenge to get into the first XI, but there isn't much evidence for the notion that they thought Mudryk would displace Martinelli. After all, Mudryk was our third choice for this position this past summer and we actually declined (stupidly) to sign him when we had the chance - first we went for Raphinha, then tried hard to do a deal for Pedro Neto, then started looking at Mudryk when Wolves wanted too much money.
 
Powderfinger said:
Who knows what the future brings in terms of the development of both players. But in terms of how Arsenal has approached this transfer, it has always been a case of wanting another player to rotate and compete with Martinelli and Saka. I think in general the club believes in competition and signing players who will challenge to get into the first XI, but there isn't much evidence for the notion that they thought Mudryk would displace Martinelli. After all, Mudryk was our third choice for this position this past summer and we actually declined (stupidly) to sign him when we had the chance - first we went for Raphinha, then tried hard to do a deal for Pedro Neto, then started looking at Mudryk when Wolves wanted too much money.
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We wouldn't have done the deal in the summer. They were asking for 50m-60m then. And as we can see they wouldn't budge. And honestly paying 100m for him now is actually less risky compared to paying 60m in the summer as he has had a pretty good past 6 month.
 
Superb cameo. So exciting. Can’t wait for him to link up with Felix and Kovacic.
 
He was given lots of space but I think he could be Chelsea's most pivotal signing to date under the new ownership.
 
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